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Author Topic: When will Trump be impeached?  (Read 163389 times)

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1520 on: February 20, 2018, 11:33:37 AM »
she was not as charismatic a figure as Obama

Absolutely.

Trump was a far more charismatic campaigner than her.

But that's not the same as running a country.

Marketing yourself / tearing down others to win an election doesn't translate into being the best person for the job of leader of the free world.

I agree. Thank you for agreeing with me as to why Trump won.

Although based on Hillary's actions with both Russia and Assange coming back to bite her, it suggests her judgment if she became leader might not be that sound either.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1521 on: February 20, 2018, 11:41:32 AM »

Online gogators!

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1522 on: February 20, 2018, 11:44:50 AM »
russki bots still hard at work;

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In the wake of Wednesday’s Parkland, Florida, school shooting, which resulted in 17 deaths, troll and bot-tracking sites reported an immediate uptick in related tweets from political propaganda bots and Russia-linked Twitter accounts. Hamilton 68, a website created by Alliance for Securing Democracy, tracks Twitter activity from accounts it has identified as linked to Russian influence campaigns. As of morning, shooting-related terms dominated the site’s trending hashtags and topics, including Parkland, guncontrolnow, Florida, guncontrol, and Nikolas Cruz, the name of the alleged shooter. Popular trending topics among the bot network include shooter, NRA, shooting, Nikolas, Florida, and teacher.

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While RoBhat Labs tracks general political bots, Hamilton 68 focuses specifically on those linked to the Russian government. According to the group's data, the top link shared by Russia-linked accounts in the last 48 hours is a 2014 Politifact article that looks critically at a statistic cited by pro-gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. Twitter accounts tracked by the group have used the old link to try to debunk today’s stats about the frequency of school shootings.
Sharing is free--there goes the they didn't spend enough money argument.

How long before sr/dm starts parroting the arguments pushed by the bots? Commencing countdown...

Offline parkerynp

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1523 on: February 20, 2018, 11:50:30 AM »
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The "so" tell for cognitive dissonance (don't worry, I do it to).

Regardless, The attack on voter rolls was unsuccessful and did not affect the outcome, so we can remove that as a variable. The social media stuff appears to be highly unlikely to be significant when all other variables are considered. Facebook ads and shares and twitter retweets, considering the ocean of material out there, are likely to have been ineffective. Not to mention the sloppy and amateurish nature of many of them. I mean seriously, if this is the KGB's best effort, we might as well sit back and light up cigars.

The DNC hack was enabled because Podesta fell for a phishing scam (allegedly) and the DNC email password was barely a step above '12345'.  Furthermore, nothing in there was ever said to be untrue.

Besides we don't even know that the emails really were hacked and not in fact leaked. The DNC refuses to allow the FBI to investigate its servers. The forensic analysis was performed by Crowdstrike, a firm linked to FusionGPS. Assange and Kim DotCom both claim that the material was leaked, not hacked. Even if it was hacking, it is known that hackers can disguise where they are from. It could be that they were hacked by the Russians, but something stinks in this whole Russian thing.

Why does the DNC refuse to allow the FBI to do a forensic investigation of its servers?

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An hour later Wikileaks (Russian intelligence) dumps John Podesta's emails.

Wikileaks is not Russian intelligence. You're confusing momentarily converging interests with being 'Russian Intelligence'.

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What should have a been a campaign ending video tape was shadowed by hacked DNC emails, man. Your boy (DJT) bragged about grabbing women by the ***** and miraculously this story is pushed to the back burner (by the "LIBERAL" media) because of DNC emails.

Actually this tape is what made it close. The campaign was effectively over when Clinton collapsed and was tossed into the back of a van like a slab of beef. I think you are failing to grasp the significance of that moment and how it did several things- It validated conspiracy theories about her health, it confirmed what Trump said about her "lacking the stamina", she came across as a liar yet again, but most importantly it made her look weak and a U.S. presidential candidate CANNOT look weak.

I say if that Access Hollywood tape hadn't been released, Trump likely would have won New Hampshire, Minnesota, Virginia, Maine, and Nevada. Maybe Colorado too. It would have been an even bigger rout.

Now, as for the timing, it's clear that Assange is NOT a fan of Clinton (I can't imagine why, she only talked about having him Drone Striked- again showing questionable temperament and judgment). That combined with her weak meddling in Russian politics PROVOKED these responses. She has no one but herself to blame. What was gained in those moments resulted in significant losses for her. She lacked the judgment, the temperament, and the stamina.


1. We don't know the attack on voter rolls was played a factor. You can hack into voter rolls and not change votes. You can hack into voter rolls and change someones address by one number which, in turn, causes that person to wait in line for a long time to vote. Say that person doesn't have the time to wait in line to vote....they leave. BAM voter suppression. Thank goodness Robert Mueller is investigating this.

2. Creating and sowing toxic political environments on social media was pure genius on the part of the Russians. At a time when the average person gets their news from FB it means this does have an impact on how people perceive candidates.

3. This being sloppy and amateurish, as you say, is part of the genius of it all. Russians knew how effective this campaign would be. Sergie Kisliac (SP?) speaking on the phone about meetings with Sessions openly? I mean Russians know the FBI/CIA listen in on their calls. Being sloppy and not giving a **** about it because of diplomatic immunity and no extradition factors into the genius of this attack.

4. You're right...wikileaks isn't Russian intelligence. Fancy Bear is though. And it is WIDELY known that Russian Intelligence uses 3rd party entities to do their dirty work. Again, speaks to the genius of this attack.

5. Listen, I know HRC didn't lose simply because of Russian meddling. I am WELL aware at how unlikable she was. Despite her being the most qualified candidate in history (objectively speaking) she was impossible to listen to. I cringed during the debates. And laughed my ass off at how captivating Trump was. I mean calling out the Bush family, in South Carolina, over the illegality of the war in Iraq?!?! Incredible. HRC not campaigning in WI or MI was a serious lack of judgement. Correct. But temperament? Come on...Trump has more of a steady temperament than HRC? Did you watch the 11 hour testimony she gave over the Benghazi situation? Trump has the temperament and vocabulary of a sophomore in High School. He somehow turned the recent Florida HS shooting into his paranoid obsession with Russian collusion. Because, ya know, an organization with over 10,000 employees can't juggle an investigation into a 19 year old kid in Florida and Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

6. And to the dude who said I purposefully left out "they let you do it" to make my point. I don't think you have the morality or mental fortitude to have a discussion on the complexities of sexual harassment/assault in a situation where one party has ALL THE POWER and the other party has ZERO.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1524 on: February 20, 2018, 11:51:16 AM »
russki bots still hard at work;

Quote
In the wake of Wednesday’s Parkland, Florida, school shooting, which resulted in 17 deaths, troll and bot-tracking sites reported an immediate uptick in related tweets from political propaganda bots and Russia-linked Twitter accounts. Hamilton 68, a website created by Alliance for Securing Democracy, tracks Twitter activity from accounts it has identified as linked to Russian influence campaigns. As of morning, shooting-related terms dominated the site’s trending hashtags and topics, including Parkland, guncontrolnow, Florida, guncontrol, and Nikolas Cruz, the name of the alleged shooter. Popular trending topics among the bot network include shooter, NRA, shooting, Nikolas, Florida, and teacher.

Quote
While RoBhat Labs tracks general political bots, Hamilton 68 focuses specifically on those linked to the Russian government. According to the group's data, the top link shared by Russia-linked accounts in the last 48 hours is a 2014 Politifact article that looks critically at a statistic cited by pro-gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. Twitter accounts tracked by the group have used the old link to try to debunk today’s stats about the frequency of school shootings.
Sharing is free--there goes the they didn't spend enough money argument.

How long before sr/dm starts parroting the arguments pushed by the bots? Commencing countdown...

As someone who follows Rgiht-wing people on twitter, that article was not the big to do. It didn't even make it on Breitbart.

You really need to start looking at this Russian bot stuff with the same critical eye you give to Trump. This article doesn't even give a number of shares, likes, and reteweets. A lot of those bots are from people who pay for followers and its not surprising that after a shooting in Florida. The top trending terms amongst both bots AND normal people are 'florida' and 'shooting'. I mean seriously, that's really weak.

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1525 on: February 20, 2018, 12:09:24 PM »
Nice to see the MSM/Left taking a fresh skeptical eye at the Russia Collusion narrative.

https://www.thenation.com/article/russiagate-or-intelgate/

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/18/confessions-of-a-russiagate-skeptic-217024

From the politico link:

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There is, of course, plenty of public evidence that Trump was all too happy to collude with Putin. “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” springs to mind, not to mention Trump’s endless invocation of WikiLeaks in the closing weeks of the 2016 campaign. What’s particularly eerie, too, is how Trump’s divisive racial rhetoric and claims about how the election was going to be “rigged” in favor of Hillary Clinton echoes the messages described in Mueller’s latest indictment. Not to mention the voluminous fodder Trump has given Mueller for a (very) hypothetical obstruction of justice case.

His skepticism doesn't seem all that persuasive, even to himself, and is based only on the idea that trumpy was too incompetent to collude. There's plenty of incompetent crooks, e.g. trump uni fraud, and the russkis weren't incompetent. That's an argument full of holes.

the nation article is even less persuasive. One has to wonder about cohen.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 12:11:10 PM by gogators! »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1526 on: February 20, 2018, 12:10:18 PM »
1. We don't know the attack on voter rolls was played a factor. You can hack into voter rolls and not change votes. You can hack into voter rolls and change someones address by one number which, in turn, causes that person to wait in line for a long time to vote. Say that person doesn't have the time to wait in line to vote....they leave. BAM voter suppression. Thank goodness Robert Mueller is investigating this.
You mean this hacking story?
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/yet-another-major-russia-story-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/

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2. Creating and sowing toxic political environments on social media was pure genius on the part of the Russians. At a time when the average person gets their news from FB it means this does have an impact on how people perceive candidates.

I think you're confusing correlation with causation. We already were toxic and would have been just as toxic with or without Russia. You still would have gotten virtually the same level of shared crap out there, only it would be some InfoWars article instead of some Russian bot article that was posted on someone's wall.

It's amazing how one side sees this as "sheer genius" and "an all out assault" while another side sees this as an amateurish effort by Russia's JV team.

If I was a corporation, and I hired the Russian bots and facebook team to do advertising, I'd demand my money back. The stuff they put out was 3rd rate and none of it went viral. No one remembers the ad. I remember plenty of ads in my lifetime. I remember an ad for a discontinued bubblegum called Bubble-eeze I saw in like, 1987. No one anywhere remembers any of the Russian ads. That means they weren't influential. And this all-out-assault had a lower payroll than that of the Russia-linked Brooklyn Nets NBA team.

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3. This being sloppy and amateurish, as you say, is part of the genius of it all. Russians knew how effective this campaign would be. Sergie Kisliac (SP?) speaking on the phone about meetings with Sessions openly? I mean Russians know the FBI/CIA listen in on their calls. Being sloppy and not giving a **** about it because of diplomatic immunity and no extradition factors into the genius of this attack.

If the genius was to send America chasing this Russian stuff like a bull going after a Matador's cape and tearing itself apart with it, it was genius. If it was to get the Democratic Party so unhinged that they would spend their energy focusing on RUSSIA!!!!! instead of health care, it's genius. If it is to get Democratic voters to waste away their big lead in the polls for 2018 by telling voters in swing states "you voted for Trump because you were dumb and fell for Russian bot attacks", it's genius.

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Fancy Bear is though. And it is WIDELY known that Russian Intelligence uses 3rd party entities to do their dirty work. Again, speaks to the genius of this attack.

The genius of getting John Podesta to fall for a phishing scam? You do realize that the Podesta email scandal would not have happened if that phishing email had simply been deleted, right?

THIS IS YOU GENIUS PLOT????? A 6th-rate Phising Scam?????


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1527 on: February 20, 2018, 12:16:52 PM »
His skepticism doesn't seem all that persuasive, even to himself, and is based only on the idea that trumpy was too incompetent to collude. There's plenty of incompetent crooks, e.g. trump uni fraud, and the russkis weren't incompetent. That's an argument full of holes.

the nation article is even less persuasive. One has to wonder about cohen.

I agree that it isn't the most persuasive. This is of course, because he is conflicted. But you see the doubt starting to creep in. It's that investigator's instinct that journalists are supposed to have. Something doesn't quite add up in all of this.

Cohen the Russia expert? What part of his article is unpersuasive?

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1528 on: February 20, 2018, 12:49:24 PM »
If the electoral college had given Clinton a victory over a popular vote-winning Trump...

What are the odds that could have ever happened? That more people would prefer him over Clinton. Never. He got lucky.

I hate the electoral college and gerrymandering because it's undemocratic.

It's not partisanship that is making me say that.

Though both of those seem to benefit Republicans much more than Democrats.

The "rules" benefit Republicans more than Democrats.

If the rules from the start was popular vote Clinton would have won no matter what regardless of Trump's strategy.

To put the outcome of the presidential election in the hands of swing states isn't giving voters equal say.

The American people aren't stupid enough to elect Trump in a fair straightforward one person one vote / equal say / votes have equal weight system.

Better to abolish states voting before others in primaries, gerrymandering, and the electoral college.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1529 on: February 20, 2018, 01:09:57 PM »
If the rules from the start was popular vote Clinton would have won no matter what regardless of Trump's strategy.

Who knows? Trump might have run a different campaign. He might have ran as an independent or he might have tacked more to the center. Trump ran a campaign to win under the rules.

Offline parkerynp

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1530 on: February 20, 2018, 01:15:24 PM »
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You mean this hacking story?
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/yet-another-major-russia-story-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/


Very convenient of you. P.s. that story highlights that 2 of the 21 said they weren't hacked. 19 out of 21 is still significant. Oh and here is an updated article from your precious right-wing media.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dhs-official-russians-successfully-penetrated-voter-registration-rolls-in-several-states-before-2016-election/article/2648443

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If the genius was to send America chasing this Russian stuff like a bull going after a Matador's cape and tearing itself apart with it, it was genius. If it was to get the Democratic Party so unhinged that they would spend their energy focusing on RUSSIA!!!!! instead of health care, it's genius. If it is to get Democratic voters to waste away their big lead in the polls for 2018 by telling voters in swing states "you voted for Trump because you were dumb and fell for Russian bot attacks", it's genius.

Yeah. You nailed. It was genius. I am not a democrat and I firmly believe the Democrats need not waste their energy on this story and let Robert Mueller figure it out. Democrats, generally speaking, are very weak. I would prefer an all out assault on single payer health care, comprehensive tax legislation so we can begin balancing out the historic wealth discrepancy, outrageous expenditure in the pentagon and national defense, gun regulations, renewable energies, decriminalizing drugs and turning the conversation into a national health crisis, getting rid of the industrial prison complex, higher investment into education, and the like.

You're right...Democrats are blowing their lead because their message seems to be "we're not Trump" rather than spearheading a movement that is already underway right now. 

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The genius of getting John Podesta to fall for a phishing scam? You do realize that the Podesta email scandal would not have happened if that phishing email had simply been deleted, right?

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack

In summary, human error (typo) caused this phishing scam to work. And work beyond their wildest dreams. Your point of how this crime could have been stopped is MEANINGLESS. A crime is a crime and it happened because of a minor typo and it led to significant political damage. Fancy Bear got lucky. And then turned the evidence over to Wikileaks who weaponized stolen material in the election.

I mean come on. Trump, July 27  "“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Trump said at a news conference. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

Dude called on a foreign advisory to commit a crime in order to help him win the election HAHAHA!

Me personally? I follow this story because it is awesome! I love history and politics so this era of Trump, Russia, Twiiter, etc is fascinating to watch and follow. The books that will be written, when this is all said and done, are going to be monumental.

The U.S. elected a billionaire who appointed financial billionaire/oil executives into top government positions. The U.S. is fucked for a while. No doubt about that. The Russia story is great for taking the mind off the extreme uncertainty of the future. I mean...they guy doesn't believe Global warming is a real thing!!!!!! Humanity is on the brink on destruction. I am glad I am 30 with no kids becuase it aint certain theres going to be a prosperous future. Sometime that trillions of debt the U.S. racked up (from both political parties) will come back to haunt us.

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1531 on: February 20, 2018, 01:17:28 PM »
While Russian officials scoff at a U.S. indictment charging 13 Russians with meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, several people who worked at the same St. Petersburg "troll factory" say they think the criminal charges are well-founded.

Marat Mindiyarov, a former commenter at the innocuously named Internet Research Agency, says the organization's Facebook department hired people with excellent English skills to sway U.S. public opinion through an elaborate social media campaign.

http://www.nbc11news.com/content/news/Ex-workers-at-Russian-troll-factory-trust-US-indictment-474492123.html

Mindiyarov, who failed the language exam needed to get a job on the Facebook desk at the "troll factory," said the sleek operation produced content that looked as if it were written by native English speakers.

"These were people with excellent language skills, interpreters, university graduates," he said, "It's very hard to tell it's a foreigner writing because they master the language wonderfully."

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1532 on: February 20, 2018, 02:06:44 PM »
Very convenient of you. P.s. that story highlights that 2 of the 21 said they weren't hacked. 19 out of 21 is still significant. Oh and here is an updated article from your precious right-wing media.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dhs-official-russians-successfully-penetrated-voter-registration-rolls-in-several-states-before-2016-election/article/2648443
Precious Right-Wing media? You mean The Intercept, The Nation, and Politico????? In case you haven't noticed, unlike some of the right-wing hacks on this site, I try to avoid using right-wing media sources because they aren't credible to people on the other side. The one time I did, in the Flynn case, was because it was an indication of what Flynn might do, as right-wing sources are good for determining what the right-wing might do.

Regardless, is there any evidence that any votes were changed or people were disenfranchised because of the hacks?

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Yeah. You nailed. It was genius. I am not a democrat and I firmly believe the Democrats need not waste their energy on this story and let Robert Mueller figure it out. Democrats, generally speaking, are very weak. I would prefer an all out assault on single payer health care, comprehensive tax legislation so we can begin balancing out the historic wealth discrepancy, outrageous expenditure in the pentagon and national defense, gun regulations, renewable energies, decriminalizing drugs and turning the conversation into a national health crisis, getting rid of the industrial prison complex, higher investment into education, and the like.

I agree!

If the Democrats ran on a platform of healthcare, jobs, protection of rights, unions, non-interventionist foreign policy (but no isolationism) a moderate immigration reform package, some common sense gun laws (say enshrining the right of American to own firearms like a AR-15/FNFAL/AK/etc. but enhanced checks and magazine capacity limits), and making sure that situations like Flint, MI don't happen, they could certainly romp in 2018.

I don't think that's going to happen. They're too busy being the anti-Trump party, taking a hard position on immigration, and telling voters in Wisconsin that they voted for Trump because of bots. That's a recipe for a Teresa May like failure.

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In summary, human error (typo) caused this phishing scam to work. And work beyond their wildest dreams. Your point of how this crime could have been stopped is MEANINGLESS. A crime is a crime and it happened because of a minor typo and it led to significant political damage. Fancy Bear got lucky. And then turned the evidence over to Wikileaks who weaponized stolen material in the election.
 

A crime is a crime, but this does call into question the intensity, depth, and professionalism of Russian efforts. What was likely a minor side project, and funded as such- less than handful of SU-30s. Think about it, even at the high end if you include the alleged NRA funding, Russia spent as much on this as it spends on TWO SU-33s. Not exactly a "major operation".

Do you think Putin, master genius, conceived this plan hoping that they'd "get lucky" and stake his hopes for defeating Clinton on it? Or was this some side project for the GRU?

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I mean come on. Trump, July 27  "“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Trump said at a news conference. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

Dude called on a foreign advisory to commit a crime in order to help him win the election HAHAHA!

Convincing evidence of a conspiracy if I've ever seen one. A throw-away line by Trump. Once Russia heard that, it was suddenly game on! "Quick, quick Vlad, Trump just gave us the green light! We were about to pack it in, but no we're good to go!"

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Me personally? I follow this story because it is awesome! I love history and politics so this era of Trump, Russia, Twiiter, etc is fascinating to watch and follow. The books that will be written, when this is all said and done, are going to be monumental.

I agree too! There's intrigue and mystery and on one is 100% sure how it will turn out. I may end up with egg on my face! It may be another Benghazi!!!!!! It may be another Iran Contra and Trump is lucky to escape. It may turn out that the FBI+Intel community+Obama admin tried to sink Trump with bogus stuff.

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I mean...they guy doesn't believe Global warming is a real thing!!!!!!
Here's a hint: The people at the top who claim it's real don't believe it either. At least, they're not acting like it. I mean, I know they think it's real, but there's a disconnect between their actions and what they say. I'm talking the people who fly around in private jets or who consume consume consume, all while sharing memes on facebook about the environment.

I'm not global warming denying, not at all.- It's akin to someone who knows heart disease is real, but continues to eat crappy food and gain weight. We all know heart disease is real and bad foods are bad. We know what will happen, but we just ignore it. It's very human. In a weird way it kind of validates global warming while invalidating it. One of those fascinating contradictions that the history books (on the island?) will record.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1533 on: February 20, 2018, 02:11:44 PM »
"These were people with excellent language skills, interpreters, university graduates," he said, "It's very hard to tell it's a foreigner writing because they master the language wonderfully."
The language was off at times and full of errors...So I guess they did master the language of the internet wonderfully.  :laugh:

Still doesn't mean they were effective above the massive amount of spending by both campaigns and all the PACs. At some point there's diminishing returns and when it comes to the Russians, at that point it's essentially nil.

McDonald's having a 50% off sale on election day in Grand Rapids, MI would probably affect turnout more than those ads.


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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1534 on: February 20, 2018, 04:08:49 PM »
"These were people with excellent language skills, interpreters, university graduates," he said, "It's very hard to tell it's a foreigner writing because they master the language wonderfully."
The language was off at times and full of errors...So I guess they did master the language of the internet wonderfully.  :laugh:

Still doesn't mean they were effective above the massive amount of spending by both campaigns and all the PACs. At some point there's diminishing returns and when it comes to the Russians, at that point it's essentially nil.

McDonald's having a 50% off sale on election day in Grand Rapids, MI would probably affect turnout more than those ads.
More BS. Your probablies would make a nice book of absurd and wacky theories about most everything.

Your constant refrain that money equals success is just wrong, shows how little you know and illustrates how weak your arguments are --For example, think of the UNICEF Tap Project:
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This year, the “Tap Project’s” most successful fund-raising year yet, continued to look at everyday habits, namely phone use. “We just built a very simple phone app,” one that donated to the cause for every 10 minutes spent sans smartphone, sponsors and partners would provide a child with water for a day.

Or how about this:
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You may have noticed this recent campaign. It was a small job ad in the classifieds. It described “The World’s Best Job” and offered an annual salary of $150,000. They were looking for the right person to become the caretaker of an island somewhere off the coast of far north Australia on the Great Barrier Reef–one of the most exotic locations in the world. They placed the ads in a few different places but, within a short time, the media picked it up and it began making headlines on television stations. After all, who could resist imagining themselves in such a dream job?

Within four weeks, the campaign had generated media exposure that was valued at $89 million. And yes, it also appeared on CNN International–although, of course, not in a paid spot. It was a human interest news item that did not cost a single penny.

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1535 on: February 22, 2018, 05:28:12 AM »
How Mueller’s latest indictment relates to the Steele dossier through Alex Van Der Zwaan's daddy in law German Khan and Alfa Bank.

https://www.gq.com/story/how-muellers-latest-indictment-relates-to-the-steele-dossier





Offline parkerynp

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1536 on: February 22, 2018, 08:53:17 AM »
Mr. D

Here is some tangible evidence explaining how the spread of disinformation (via russian bots and/or far right wing conspiracy theorists) can alter public perception on situations.  Russian twitter handles and FB fake profiles have mastered the art of capturing attention, stirring up anger, and then spreading conspiracy theories via social media. I mean...how can anyone in their right mind see the tragedy in Florida and then claim the students are crisis actors?! I'd be willing to bet good money that these people are some of Trump's base. And the fact that Don Jr "liked" one of the posts spreading this information is, for lack of a better word, ridiculous.

Russia's propaganda machine in the lead up to the 2016 election had a significant impact on the election. Was NOT the ONLY reason Trump was election but it helped...a lot. There is no doubt about it. 


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/16/586361956/as-an-american-tragedy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=politics&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180220

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/21/crisis-actors-deep-state-false-flag-the-rise-of-conspiracy-theory-code-words



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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1538 on: February 22, 2018, 11:18:42 AM »
Mr. D

Here is some tangible evidence explaining how the spread of disinformation (via russian bots and/or far right wing conspiracy theorists) can alter public perception on situations.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/16/586361956/as-an-american-tragedy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=politics&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180220

Yes. Those ideas would have been pushed, have been pushed, and will be pushed by AMERICAN conspiracy theorists, primarily the Infowars crowd.

More and more people are starting to push back at the excesses of this Russia narrative. And these are from voices on the left.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-fundamental-uncertainty-of-muellers-russia-indictments

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/02/20/new_yorkers_adrian_chen_russia_social_media_marketing_bot_campaign_wasnt_effective.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/02/the-russian-conspiracy-to-commit-audience-development/553685/

https://www.thenation.com/article/what-weve-learned-in-year-one-of-russiagate/

https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/19/bots-force-al-franken-resign/#.Wou1t90zm0s.twitter
They've got to tell a new story to keep getting clicks. Plus the tech writers are taking, dare I say, an elitist view towards the russki campaign.

The russki's political technology might not be fancy but it works. Look at the change in russians' attitudes towards homosexuals from one of basic acceptance to one of virulent disapproval. That was instigated by putin's campaigns against homosexuality which were enabled by his political technologists.

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1539 on: February 22, 2018, 11:33:08 AM »
They've got to tell a new story to keep getting clicks. Plus the tech writers are taking, dare I say, an elitist view towards the russki campaign.
Thank you for proving my point about the media-driven hysteria about the Russian stuff. They keep yammering on about it to get clicks and they are taking an elitist view that people who voted for Trump did so because they saw a retweet by a bot and suddenly went "That does it, I'm voting for Trump!".

Quote
The russki's political technology might not be fancy but it works.

Again, if this Russian propaganda is so effective it changes something like an entire country's attitude towards homosexuality, why doesn't Russia use it to improve their economy? Why aren't they essentially dominating the globe?

Because it's not magic. It's not as effective as you're making it out to be.

The Russian Conspiracy Theory is like other conspiracy theories- relies on the "enemy" having some sort of magical superpowers and being all knowing and all powerful...yet not so powerful that they have to resort to Rube Goldberg-like schemes to pull everything off.