December 13, 2018, 11:35:33 PM


Author Topic: When will Trump be impeached?  (Read 198799 times)

Online Savant

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1040 on: October 13, 2017, 06:10:37 PM »
Trump, the man of the working people, has just f*cked them over with his latest action on Obamacare subsidies.

Online Mr C

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1041 on: October 14, 2017, 04:42:46 PM »
$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump.
Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.
Quote
By Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html

And Clinton spent big on internet ads as well.

Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective?

No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up.

Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Or both.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1042 on: October 14, 2017, 07:05:15 PM »
$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump.
Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.
Quote
By Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html

And Clinton spent big on internet ads as well.

Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective?

No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up.

Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Or both.

And your evidence that these facebook ads swayed any votes relative to other ads is....?

Who is making shit up? You haven't even seen the ads.

Again, IF, IF they were effective, Russia would be the new advertising capital of the globe. They aren't. Money talks.

There's no Boris Draper magically persuading people to vite for Trump and Brexit.

Online Mr C

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1043 on: October 14, 2017, 10:34:06 PM »
$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump.
Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.
Quote
By Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html

And Clinton spent big on internet ads as well.

Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective?

No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up.

Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Or both.

And your evidence that these facebook ads swayed any votes relative to other ads is....?

Who is making shit up? You haven't even seen the ads.

Again, IF, IF they were effective, Russia would be the new advertising capital of the globe. They aren't. Money talks.

There's no Boris Draper magically persuading people to vite for Trump and Brexit.

No one can be this stupid!  You suggested Trump campaign spent $300,000 on FB ads.  That was untrue.  It is a lie.

I showed a real source, not some made up BS in your brain, showing that the Trump campaign spent AT LEAST $75 MILLION on FB ads. 

$300,000 is 0.4 % of $75 million.  You are lying by 99.6 %.

I'm not talking about the Russians, I'm not talking about Hillary Clinton, I'm not talking about Boris Draper.   I'm talking about YOU.

And you just make stuff up.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 10:37:41 AM by Mr C »

Offline gogators!

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1044 on: October 15, 2017, 06:38:52 PM »
dm's a russki bot.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1045 on: October 15, 2017, 08:52:13 PM »
Trump, the man of the working people, has just f*cked them over with his latest action on Obamacare subsidies.

They'll be fine when Trump personally signs them all up for beautiful, fabulous coal-mining jobs. Trust me, believe me.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1046 on: October 16, 2017, 01:50:37 AM »
$300k of facebook ads brainwashed 10s of thousands of people to vote Trump.
Another thing that fits: facts don't matter so you can just make stuff up.
Quote
By Election Day, Trump’s campaign had spent roughly $70 million on Facebook alone — nearly all in the last four months of the election, according to people familiar with the spending.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaigns-embrace-of-facebook-shows-companys-growing-reach-in-elections/2017/10/08/e5e5f156-a93b-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html

And Clinton spent big on internet ads as well.

Are you saying that Trump's ads are magically more effective?

No, I'm saying that you just make $hit up.

Or, alternatively, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Or both.

And your evidence that these facebook ads swayed any votes relative to other ads is....?

Who is making shit up? You haven't even seen the ads.

Again, IF, IF they were effective, Russia would be the new advertising capital of the globe. They aren't. Money talks.

There's no Boris Draper magically persuading people to vite for Trump and Brexit.

No one can be this stupid!  You suggested Trump campaign spent $300,000 on FB ads.  That was untrue.  It is a lie.

I showed a real source, not some made up BS in your brain, showing that the Trump campaign spent AT LEAST $75 MILLION on FB ads. 

$300,000 is 0.4 % of $75 million.  You are lying by 99.6 %.

I'm not talking about the Russians, I'm not talking about Hillary Clinton, I'm not talking about Boris Draper.   I'm talking about YOU.

And you just make stuff up.

300k is the figure being cited for RUSSIAN facebook buys, not Trump. 

People are moronically claiming those ads had more impact than Clinton/Trump's ads.

Online Life Improvement

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1047 on: October 16, 2017, 04:22:57 AM »
Are they?

If they had any impact AT ALL...which they DID... that's shameful.

The election was extremely close.

To say the Russian ads were enough to throw it is not unreasonable.

Many factors could.

Enough to change the course of history. 

Clinton got 65,844,954 votes.

Trump got 62,979,879.

Offline gogators!

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1048 on: October 16, 2017, 07:20:17 AM »
And people in this forum are caliming they and trumped up aren't racist. And yet:

Quote
When the people sent it to me, it was funny," Arnold said, explaining that hundreds of people have seen the footage that was sent around years ago as a Christmas video.

"He wasn't going to be president of the United States. It was him sitting in that chair using the N-word, using the C-word, calling his son [intellectually disabled]," Arnold said.

Arnold then went on to recount the Sunday before the election, allegedly being called by good friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's CAA agent and Hillary Clinton, asking for him to release the tapes.

But at that point, Arnold asserted that the people originally responsible for the distribution of the footage, two editors and an associate producer, were "scared to death."

"They were scared of his people. They're scared they'll never work again," said Arnold. "There's a $5-million confidentiality agreement.

And trumped up and his campaign picked up and furthered the messages from the russki ads:

Quote

    Both the “Secured Borders” and “Beyond Patriotic” pages revealed by the Daily Beast were steeped in anti-Clinton rhetoric, with the latter organizing on-the-ground rallies that featured Americans chanting to “lock her up!” In one example from “Secured Borders,” the authors — referring to Clinton as “Killary” — piggy-backed on the outrage over Clinton’s comments that certain Trump supporters are “deplorables.” As the post wrote, “If Killary thinks that being American, loving your country and be concerned about ours and our children’s future is deplorable, then hell yeah count me in in that basket! [sic]”

It's not just the amount of money spent:

Quote
Russia used multiple fake Facebook groups that were directly racial or focused on wedge issues such as “Blactivist”, “United Muslims for America”, “Heart of Texas”, ”Defend the 2nd”, ”LGBT United” and “Secured Borders” to fan the flames of division in America to benefit Trump. These six groups alone  received 340 Million views combined while Facebook has admitted that there were over 400 of these types of accounts.

What say ye, Comrade sr/dm?

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1049 on: October 16, 2017, 10:24:47 AM »
Are they?

If they had any impact AT ALL...which they DID... that's shameful.

The election was extremely close.

To say the Russian ads were enough to throw it is not unreasonable.

Many factors could.

Enough to change the course of history. 

Clinton got 65,844,954 votes.

Trump got 62,979,879.

1) The Russian ads are indistinguishable from all the other stuff floating out there. You could spend 10 minutes on https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ and find the same kind of memes.

2) You're making a logical fallacy- You assume that because something is there, that it had a causal effect. To prove that Russian ads had an effect, you would need something like a control group of normal voters exposed to just say, 100 normal American based political ads, and then an experimental group that is exposed to those, BUT with 99 of those ads being normal and 1, a single one, being one of the Russian ads. You know what I guarantee you'd find? That that Russian ad had no statistical effect on voter choice or voter intensity.

3) You're forgetting that some of the Russian ads pushed left-leaning causes.

Maybe you should listen to this guy instead and why Trump was able to narrowly win the Midwest-

https://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc

Michael Moore-
Quote
Donald Trump came to the Detroit Economic Club and stood there in front of the Ford Motor executives and said, “If you close these factories, as you’re planning to do in Detroit, and build them in Mexico, I’m going to put a 35 percent tariff on those cars when you send them back, and nobody is going to buy them.” It was an amazing thing to see. No politician, Republican or Democrat, had ever said anything like that to these executives.
And it was music to the ears of people in Michigan and Ohio and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin
—the Brexit states. If you live here in Ohio, you know what I’m talking about. Whether Trump means it or not is kind of irrelevant, because he’s saying the things to people who are hurting. And it’s why every beaten-down, nameless, forgotten working stiff who used to be part of what was called the middle class loves Trump. He is the human Molotov cocktail that they’ve been waiting for, the human hand grenade that they can legally throw into the system that stole their lives from them.

But no, it wasn't that. It was Russian facebook ads.  :rolleyes:

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1050 on: October 16, 2017, 10:35:35 AM »
And people in this forum are caliming they and trumped up aren't racist. And yet:

Quote
When the people sent it to me, it was funny," Arnold said, explaining that hundreds of people have seen the footage that was sent around years ago as a Christmas video.

"He wasn't going to be president of the United States. It was him sitting in that chair using the N-word, using the C-word, calling his son [intellectually disabled]," Arnold said.

Arnold then went on to recount the Sunday before the election, allegedly being called by good friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's CAA agent and Hillary Clinton, asking for him to release the tapes.

But at that point, Arnold asserted that the people originally responsible for the distribution of the footage, two editors and an associate producer, were "scared to death."

"They were scared of his people. They're scared they'll never work again," said Arnold. "There's a $5-million confidentiality agreement.

And trumped up and his campaign picked up and furthered the messages from the russki ads:

Quote

    Both the “Secured Borders” and “Beyond Patriotic” pages revealed by the Daily Beast were steeped in anti-Clinton rhetoric, with the latter organizing on-the-ground rallies that featured Americans chanting to “lock her up!” In one example from “Secured Borders,” the authors — referring to Clinton as “Killary” — piggy-backed on the outrage over Clinton’s comments that certain Trump supporters are “deplorables.” As the post wrote, “If Killary thinks that being American, loving your country and be concerned about ours and our children’s future is deplorable, then hell yeah count me in in that basket! [sic]”

It's not just the amount of money spent:

Quote
Russia used multiple fake Facebook groups that were directly racial or focused on wedge issues such as “Blactivist”, “United Muslims for America”, “Heart of Texas”, ”Defend the 2nd”, ”LGBT United” and “Secured Borders” to fan the flames of division in America to benefit Trump. These six groups alone  received 340 Million views combined while Facebook has admitted that there were over 400 of these types of accounts.

What say ye, Comrade sr/dm?

As I said, just because that stuff was there, doesn't mean that it had any significant influence. For starters, I'm guessing "LGBT United" and "Defend the 2nd" pretty much canceled each other out, assuming they even had an effect.

Also, these aren't exactly unheard of positions or statements. They all existed well before Russia and the divisions were already there.

It's the equivalent of a Russian McDonald's ad looking exactly like every other McDonald's ad that's out there in a sea of McDonald's ads.

This is how the internet looked before you or I had ever heard of Russians. This has been building since Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Believing its all because of the Russians is 9-11 conspiracy theory level thinking.

Offline kyndo

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1051 on: October 16, 2017, 11:42:23 AM »
As I said, just because that stuff was there, doesn't mean that it had any significant influence. For starters, I'm guessing "LGBT United" and "Defend the 2nd" pretty much canceled each other out, assuming they even had an effect.

Also, these aren't exactly unheard of positions or statements. They all existed well before Russia and the divisions were already there.

It's the equivalent of a Russian McDonald's ad looking exactly like every other McDonald's ad that's out there in a sea of McDonald's ads.

This is how the internet looked before you or I had ever heard of Russians. This has been building since Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Believing its all because of the Russians is 9-11 conspiracy theory level thinking.
     Mr.DeMartino, I feel that people who are worried about the Russian influence on America aren't saying that they're worried specifically about *which* messages the Russian troll farms are promoting (ie whether they're supporting Democratic or Republican stances). What I gather is that they're saying the Kremlin is choosing issues in order to fan the flames of social divide. A more polarized America is going to be easier to manipulate than a United America. From what I hear, the Liberals are far more divided on various issues than the Republicans, which means that deliberately highlighting certain issues with the intent of spreading disunity inherently favours the Right.

    Sometimes it takes only a tiny push for an issue that has been simmering in the background to reach critical mass and explode onto the political landscape. I'm guessing that the Russian troll-farms are very careful about which issues to give prominence to so as to maximize their disruptive potential. You're totally right about this not being anything new, but with the pervasiveness of modern social-media networks, this technique has become far more effective, and far more worrisome. I would be amazed if the US didn't have their own government organizations dedicated to countering this exact thing (a branch of USCYBERCOM or something, I suppose).

« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 11:44:02 AM by kyndo »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1052 on: October 16, 2017, 12:07:38 PM »
    Mr.DeMartino, I feel that people who are worried about the Russian influence on America aren't saying that they're worried specifically about *which* messages the Russian troll farms are promoting (ie whether they're supporting Democratic or Republican stances). What I gather is that they're saying the Kremlin is choosing issues in order to fan the flames of social divide. A more polarized America is going to be easier to manipulate than a United America. From what I hear, the Liberals are far more divided on various issues than the Republicans, which means that deliberately highlighting certain issues with the intent of spreading disunity inherently favours the Right.

    Sometimes it takes only a tiny push for an issue that has been simmering in the background to reach critical mass and explode onto the political landscape. I'm guessing that the Russian troll-farms are very careful about which issues to give prominence to so as to maximize their disruptive potential. You're totally right about this not being anything new, but with the pervasiveness of modern social-media networks, this technique has become far more effective, and far more worrisome. I would be amazed if the US didn't have their own government organizations dedicated to countering this exact thing (a branch of USCYBERCOM or something, I suppose).

Well, I agree that it could potentially be troubling if Russia is fanning the flames of social divide, but I have to ask- how much of that divide already exists and is Russia really adding anything more to it? I'd say that if anything is furthering the divide it's the idea that Russia is behind it, which glosses over the underlying issues that were already there and instead uses Russia as a scapegoat.

I mean, if anything fans the flames of social divide across the world, it's our own pop culture exports and our pressures on various countries around the world to adopt "our" values. We're talking billions of dollars worth of movies, TV, and music. You want influence from another country? How about our various celebrities/politicians who pick up twitter followers from around the world and then tweet something about Brexit or various wars or social causes across the globe. That's just as much "foreign interference on social media" and with far greater impact than anything Russia has ever done. And those can certainly "fan the flames." And if it's okay for our citizens/politicians to do that, why is it wrong for other countries? I mean, Pope Francis and Obama have massive global followings and they can influence millions around the world when it comes to political and social issues.

If indeed there were issues that were simmering and then got "pushed" by Russia, what were those issues? Every issue I can think of that was "simmering" was pushed by our own internal divisions and disagreements, and any amplification got far more energy from ourselves than Russia. We saw this with Limbaugh and the rise of FOXNews. Then we saw it from the left during the Bush years with stuff like The Daily Show and Colbert. We saw it from endless Hollywood and MSM 'lecturing'. Then during Obama we saw it from the Tea Party and Birthers and Alex Jones followed up by SJWS, trigger warnings, mansplaining, and 'Ban Bossy'. Not to mention we still have lingering resentments from the Vietnam War.

I understand the concern and it's certainly something to monitor, but I simply disagree that it's effects have been significant beyond the outrage/scapegoating. As with any situation where people fight amongst themselves, it's far more likely that the people themselves are the cause, not any outside agency, especially when the outside agent's interference is as limited as Russia's was (it's not like they're funneling weapons and such).

As for the possibility that Trump is a Russian agent, while it certainly is plausible that he is sympathetic and positively disposed due to a history of deals, outright collusion seems rather implausible because he'd be risking getting hanged. At some point he would have bowed out.

There's also something to consider- What if Trump and Russia are acting in the overall best interests of both countries by encouraging a more cooperative relationship vs. an adversarial one? I mean, when you look at what the Clintons and McCains of the world advocate for- a very assertive and adversarial relationship, shipping arms to Ukrainian rebels, possible invasion of Syria, shooting down Russian warplanes, does that really seem like the best course of action? Is it really in the best interests of the American people, and indeed the rest of the world to do such a thing? Should we really risk nuclear war over the Donbass region? There's a fine line between appeasement and recognizing spheres of influence and just because we are the United States, doesn't mean we are always making the morally correct choice. The Russians wisely got the hint back in 1962 with Cuba, now certain forces in America seem to be pushing for us to do to Russia, what they did to us.

Offline gogators!

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1053 on: October 16, 2017, 01:34:25 PM »
And people in this forum are caliming they and trumped up aren't racist. And yet:

Quote
When the people sent it to me, it was funny," Arnold said, explaining that hundreds of people have seen the footage that was sent around years ago as a Christmas video.

"He wasn't going to be president of the United States. It was him sitting in that chair using the N-word, using the C-word, calling his son [intellectually disabled]," Arnold said.

Arnold then went on to recount the Sunday before the election, allegedly being called by good friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's CAA agent and Hillary Clinton, asking for him to release the tapes.

But at that point, Arnold asserted that the people originally responsible for the distribution of the footage, two editors and an associate producer, were "scared to death."

"They were scared of his people. They're scared they'll never work again," said Arnold. "There's a $5-million confidentiality agreement.

And trumped up and his campaign picked up and furthered the messages from the russki ads:

Quote

    Both the “Secured Borders” and “Beyond Patriotic” pages revealed by the Daily Beast were steeped in anti-Clinton rhetoric, with the latter organizing on-the-ground rallies that featured Americans chanting to “lock her up!” In one example from “Secured Borders,” the authors — referring to Clinton as “Killary” — piggy-backed on the outrage over Clinton’s comments that certain Trump supporters are “deplorables.” As the post wrote, “If Killary thinks that being American, loving your country and be concerned about ours and our children’s future is deplorable, then hell yeah count me in in that basket! [sic]”

It's not just the amount of money spent:

Quote
Russia used multiple fake Facebook groups that were directly racial or focused on wedge issues such as “Blactivist”, “United Muslims for America”, “Heart of Texas”, ”Defend the 2nd”, ”LGBT United” and “Secured Borders” to fan the flames of division in America to benefit Trump. These six groups alone  received 340 Million views combined while Facebook has admitted that there were over 400 of these types of accounts.

What say ye, Comrade sr/dm?

As I said, just because that stuff was there, doesn't mean that it had any significant influence. For starters, I'm guessing "LGBT United" and "Defend the 2nd" pretty much canceled each other out, assuming they even had an effect.

Also, these aren't exactly unheard of positions or statements. They all existed well before Russia and the divisions were already there.

It's the equivalent of a Russian McDonald's ad looking exactly like every other McDonald's ad that's out there in a sea of McDonald's ads.

This is how the internet looked before you or I had ever heard of Russians. This has been building since Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. Believing its all because of the Russians is 9-11 conspiracy theory level thinking.
Nope, nope and nope.

Any post that starts with "i'm guessing" is probably going to be BS. No probably here.

Russian McDonald's commercial that's just like US ones: https://vimeo.com/50607995

Not even close.

You've  now posted how umpteen times the russkis had NO influence on the election. So how about some  proof beyond your silly analogies.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1054 on: October 16, 2017, 01:45:34 PM »
Apparently Hillary Clinton, in addition to "accepting responsibility" but blaming Russia, Comey, racism, sexism, Obama, Bernie Sanders, the media and The New York Times :laugh:, Jill Stein, women, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, Assange, Campaign Financing (despite having outspent Trump 2:1), and The DNC, is apparently now adding Nigel Farage to the list.

And people said Trump would have a hard time accepting the results and lacked temperament!

This from a candidate who ignored all warnings from Dems on the ground in the Midwest, her own 2-term husband-former President, rally sizes, lack of book sales, trusted in Hollywood and celebrities, and refused to meet her supporters on election night and concede.

Obama would have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden would have won in a walk. Sanders would probably have won a narrow race. This result is on her and her campaign.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1055 on: October 16, 2017, 02:02:08 PM »

Nope, nope and nope.

Any post that starts with "i'm guessing" is probably going to be BS. No probably here.

Russian McDonald's commercial that's just like US ones: https://vimeo.com/50607995

Not even close.

You've  now posted how umpteen times the russkis had NO influence on the election. So how about some  proof beyond your silly analogies.


How's this for proof-

Dem ad: "Russia tricked you. Don't let them get away with it again. Take back this country from the Russians. Hillary lost because of Russian interference and we need you to be with Her. Vote Democratic in 2018".

Republican ad: "All the Democrats have done for the last 2 years is say you were tricked by the Russians and voted for Trump because of this ad (show graphic of facebook ad). Really? Make America Great Again in 2018."

Everyone in America (including much of the left and MSM that indulges in the Russia thing for ratings, would just look at the Democrats and be like "Are you insane?"

Now compare that with say a Dem ad that had something like this-

"We know why you voted the way you did in 2018. It wasn't Russia, it wasn't Comey, it wasn't racism. It's because you're hurting and you're angry. It's because you're working two jobs and are still in debt. It's because you once had a respectable job that let you take the family on vacation and now you're serving fries behind a counter to the friends of your children. It's because politicians in DC seem to be more interested in cozying up to Wall St. and outsourcing your jobs than caring about the millions of Americans all over the U.S. who were once part of our great middle class. It's because some of us have focused more on what skin color or gender you are than the fact that we're all Americans and we're all in this together. We've heard you and it is our mission to fight for you."

That's what Bill Clinton would have ran on. That's what Biden would have ran on. That's what Sanders was running on. And they'd have won. Guess what? That's what Trump ran on.

But go and run with Russia.

Let's have each side go with what they believe to be true. I think the results that would follow on such a campaign would be reflective of the truth- No one in America voted the way they did because of some Russian facebook ad.

I would LOVE, LOVE for the Democratic Party to make Russian "interference" the central issue in the 2018 campaign. After all, it apparently decided an election, not the economy, wars, jobs, trade, taxes, some shitty Obamacare Bronze plan that you have to buy or eat a tax penalty, SJW nonsense, and sanctuary cities. Nope, go with Russian interference.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 02:19:15 PM by Mr.DeMartino »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1056 on: October 16, 2017, 02:16:18 PM »
Chris Matthews gets it-

The Core of Trump Support
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dO9u8n4s3M

The Incentive for Many Trump Supporters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFr-kLhO_0o

Election Night Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7zV5_8leuE

What's Ailing the Democratic Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOFDDtIEpS4

Offline kyndo

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1057 on: October 16, 2017, 02:35:54 PM »
I mean, if anything fans the flames of social divide across the world, it's our own pop culture exports and our pressures on various countries around the world to adopt "our" values. We're talking billions of dollars worth of movies, TV, and music. You want influence from another country?
Well... yes. I don't think that anybody denies the existence of cultural warfare, and that Hollywood is one of the West's most effective weapons in said war. There's a reason why the Great Firewall of China exists.
There's a reason why Hollywood blacklisted those with suspected Communist sympathies.
There's a reason why K-Pop is heavily subsidized by the government.
I could go on and on.

How about our various celebrities/politicians who pick up twitter followers from around the world and then tweet something about Brexit or various wars or social causes across the globe. That's just as much "foreign interference on social media" and with far greater impact than anything Russia has ever done. And those can certainly "fan the flames." And if it's okay for our citizens/politicians to do that, why is it wrong for other countries? I mean, Pope Francis and Obama have massive global followings and they can influence millions around the world when it comes to political and social issues.
This treads close to Whataboutism (careful else you'll get painted a Ruskie!) but the question is reasonable.

    Personally, I feel that there are a couple answers. The first -- and most obvious -- reason is that the West generally uses it's soft power in a passive sense. Hollywood bombards the planet with suffrage, egalitarianism, democracy, and Coca Cola through all sorts of media. But receivers of all that culture stuff can, generally speaking, opt to turn off the television. Nobody is forcing the average Thai to drink carbonated poison water, buy smog producing automobiles, or save up every last Baht to send their offspring to an internationally recognized school. Russia, on the other hand, is actively using anonymous social media accounts to create divisiveness as a tool for cultural sabotage. The difference is in methods and intent.

If indeed there were issues that were simmering and then got "pushed" by Russia, what were those issues? Every issue I can think of that was "simmering" was pushed by our own internal divisions and disagreements, and any amplification got far more energy from ourselves than Russia. We saw this with Limbaugh and the rise of FOXNews. Then we saw it from the left during the Bush years with stuff like The Daily Show and Colbert. We saw it from endless Hollywood and MSM 'lecturing'. Then during Obama we saw it from the Tea Party and Birthers and Alex Jones followed up by SJWS, trigger warnings, mansplaining, and 'Ban Bossy'. Not to mention we still have lingering resentments from the Vietnam War.

I understand the concern and it's certainly something to monitor, but I simply disagree that it's effects have been significant beyond the outrage/scapegoating. As with any situation where people fight amongst themselves, it's far more likely that the people themselves are the cause, not any outside agency, especially when the outside agent's interference is as limited as Russia's was (it's not like they're funneling weapons and such).
I think that it is very difficult to properly assess how much cultural damage has been done by foreign agents. It's not like they're immediately identifiable as pro-russian-trolls.
And somebody seeking to deliberately cause damage will always be infinitely more dangerous than somebody posting inflammatory materials due to outrage etc. Cyberwarfare can cause far longer lasting problems than a truck full of AR15s.

As for the possibility that Trump is a Russian agent, while it certainly is plausible that he is sympathetic and positively disposed due to a history of deals, outright collusion seems rather implausible because he'd be risking getting hanged. At some point he would have bowed out.
I agree. Laughable.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 08:12:38 AM by kyndo »

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1058 on: October 16, 2017, 02:53:17 PM »
Apparently Hillary Clinton, in addition to "accepting responsibility" but blaming Russia, Comey, racism, sexism, Obama, Bernie Sanders, the media and The New York Times :laugh:, Jill Stein, women, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter, Assange, Campaign Financing (despite having outspent Trump 2:1), and The DNC, is apparently now adding Nigel Farage to the list.

And people said Trump would have a hard time accepting the results and lacked temperament!

This from a candidate who ignored all warnings from Dems on the ground in the Midwest, her own 2-term husband-former President, rally sizes, lack of book sales, trusted in Hollywood and celebrities, and refused to meet her supporters on election night and concede.

Obama would have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden would have won in a walk. Sanders would probably have won a narrow race. This result is on her and her campaign.
trump is the president and the subject of this thread. Let's not derail it with hialry and pointless and probably incorrect predictions.

Why do YOU still support trumped up?

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Re: When will Trump be impeached?
« Reply #1059 on: October 16, 2017, 02:55:31 PM »

Nope, nope and nope.

Any post that starts with "i'm guessing" is probably going to be BS. No probably here.

Russian McDonald's commercial that's just like US ones: https://vimeo.com/50607995

Not even close.

You've  now posted how umpteen times the russkis had NO influence on the election. So how about some  proof beyond your silly analogies.


How's this for proof-

Dem ad: "Russia tricked you. Don't let them get away with it again. Take back this country from the Russians. Hillary lost because of Russian interference and we need you to be with Her. Vote Democratic in 2018".

Republican ad: "All the Democrats have done for the last 2 years is say you were tricked by the Russians and voted for Trump because of this ad (show graphic of facebook ad). Really? Make America Great Again in 2018."

Everyone in America (including much of the left and MSM that indulges in the Russia thing for ratings, would just look at the Democrats and be like "Are you insane?"

Now compare that with say a Dem ad that had something like this-

"We know why you voted the way you did in 2018. It wasn't Russia, it wasn't Comey, it wasn't racism. It's because you're hurting and you're angry. It's because you're working two jobs and are still in debt. It's because you once had a respectable job that let you take the family on vacation and now you're serving fries behind a counter to the friends of your children. It's because politicians in DC seem to be more interested in cozying up to Wall St. and outsourcing your jobs than caring about the millions of Americans all over the U.S. who were once part of our great middle class. It's because some of us have focused more on what skin color or gender you are than the fact that we're all Americans and we're all in this together. We've heard you and it is our mission to fight for you."

That's what Bill Clinton would have ran on. That's what Biden would have ran on. That's what Sanders was running on. And they'd have won. Guess what? That's what Trump ran on.

But go and run with Russia.

Let's have each side go with what they believe to be true. I think the results that would follow on such a campaign would be reflective of the truth- No one in America voted the way they did because of some Russian facebook ad.

I would LOVE, LOVE for the Democratic Party to make Russian "interference" the central issue in the 2018 campaign. After all, it apparently decided an election, not the economy, wars, jobs, trade, taxes, some shitty Obamacare Bronze plan that you have to buy or eat a tax penalty, SJW nonsense, and sanctuary cities. Nope, go with Russian interference.
What's with more fake news?

Why do YOU support trumped up and now the repugnicans? Just to have something to argue about, to try and fail to show how smart you are?