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All about South Korea => Korea Newsroom => Topic started by: hilarity ensues on February 16, 2012, 01:47:41 AM

Title: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: hilarity ensues on February 16, 2012, 01:47:41 AM
http://news.sympatico.ca/SpecialReports/controversial-brock-university-study

Let the gloating/attempts to disprove the study begin.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: OogaBooga on February 16, 2012, 03:13:26 AM
Is there a link to the actual study?
I'm a liberal, but I tend to be skeptical about these sorts of things.

*edit*

If it is true though, the comments on that article would seem to prove the study's point.

But then again, comments posted online are like that.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 16, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
There are different types of intelligence. I'm far left-wing yet not nearly as smart as a number of ppl in my fam who are both certified geniuses and strong right-wingers (Fox News, Limbaugh types). I would also bet that some of the "geniuses" on this board are right-wingers.

Generally, however, I'm sure the study's findings are correct.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 16, 2012, 10:53:21 AM
There are different types of intelligence. I'm far left-wing yet not nearly as smart as a number of ppl in my fam who are both certified geniuses and strong right-wingers (Fox News, Limbaugh types). I would also bet that some of the "geniuses" on this board are right-wingers.

Generally, however, I'm sure the study's findings are correct.

How does one gain "genius" certification and what is the awarding body?

Of course there are exceptions and intelligent people on both sides but, I saw a similar article recently, and I think this refers to a "meta study." In general, left wingers are more intelligent than right wingers. It's something most left wingers like myself have always known deep down and it's nice to finally have that proved beyond any shadow of a doubt. I'd like a link to the actual published study too but for now I'll just accept as fact what already confirms my prejudices because it's what I want to believe.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Davox on February 16, 2012, 10:55:27 AM
The only thing the article states is that they administered (probably IQ) tests to a range of students at around 10 or 11 and then went back to those same people 20 years later and asked them about their current political opinions.  What they claim the found is that, after controlling for other variables, the people who scored well on the tests at age 10 tended to have "left-ish" political opinions now and the people who scored poorly at age 10 tended to have "right-ish" political opinions now.  Of course, it's important to remember that correlation does not imply causation.

And it's also important to remember that this is only really significant if you believe that IQ is actually a good measure of intelligence (it isn't).
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 16, 2012, 11:02:10 AM
The only thing the article states is that they administered (probably IQ) tests to a range of students at around 10 or 11 and then went back to those same people 20 years later and asked them about their current political opinions.  What they claim the found is that, after controlling for other variables, the people who scored well on the tests at age 10 tended to have "left-ish" political opinions now and the people who scored poorly at age 10 tended to have "right-ish" political opinions now.  Of course, it's important to remember that correlation does not imply causation.

And it's also important to remember that this is only really significant if you believe that IQ is actually a good measure of intelligence (it isn't).

True dat. The most "intelligent" people I know are ones with incredible memories. You've gotta love the myth of MENSA though.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 16, 2012, 11:09:51 AM
Ha ha, not sure! I guess just taking a properly administered/supervised IQ test putting you in genius range (i.e. something "official" not one of those "IQ" tests you take during your lunch break in between facebooking and miniclip :))

While I think there is merit in the concept of "IQ" and Mensa, I also think Davox is right about IQ not giving a good, all-encompassing picture of your overall intelligence.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: terivinix on February 16, 2012, 11:17:37 AM
This should be obvious to pretty well everybody.

The left is dragged down by legions of airheaded college students, sure, but the right has the religious nuts. Both sides obviously have their intelligent people though, so as long as your IQ is triple-digit, you don't really need to care. 
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 16, 2012, 11:20:59 AM
Ha ha, not sure! I guess just taking a properly administered/supervised IQ test putting you in genius range (i.e. something "official" not one of those "IQ" tests you take during your lunch break in between facebooking and miniclip :))

While I think there is merit in the concept of "IQ" and Mensa, I also think Davox is right about IQ not giving a good, all-encompassing picture of your overall intelligence.

Sweet! So the steps are as follows:

1. Take lots and lots of practice IQ tests so that I get used to the kinds of questions they ask and increase the speed at which I can answer questions.
2. Take a few more tests and study IQ test "techniques."
3. Google "official IQ test certification."
4. Take test, nail test.
5. Get certificate proving my genius.
6. Mount certificate on wall in prominent position either at the office or at home.
7. When asked about certificate answer, "Yes, well, it just came out of the blue one day and these guys just awarded it to me. I supposed they'd heard of me from something."
8. Smirk knowingly.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: woman-king on February 16, 2012, 02:55:39 PM
The only thing the article states is that they administered (probably IQ) tests to a range of students at around 10 or 11 and then went back to those same people 20 years later and asked them about their current political opinions.  What they claim the found is that, after controlling for other variables, the people who scored well on the tests at age 10 tended to have "left-ish" political opinions now and the people who scored poorly at age 10 tended to have "right-ish" political opinions now.  Of course, it's important to remember that correlation does not imply causation.

And it's also important to remember that this is only really significant if you believe that IQ is actually a good measure of intelligence (it isn't).

It's very interesting to me how this article seemed to define "right wing" as exclusively defined by homophobia and racism.  It doesn't really touch on people who may identify as "right wing" on economic or national security-type issues or a libertarian belief in smaller government.  It would be more accurate to write that "people with homophobic and racist views have lower intelligence and are drawn to such beliefs because it makes them feel safe," instead of using such a blanket term.  Conservative ideology encompasses more than just the tired old black-and-white "family values" issues, and it would be very interesting to see a study like this done on people who identified their political beliefs about the economy or military intervention or some other set of issues.  Beyond its bad choice of wording, though, its an interesting study and I think their method seems pretty legit, definitely took someone a lot of work to pull this study off.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Frozencat99 on February 16, 2012, 03:05:05 PM
I don't think there was ever a doubt that homophobes and racists are generally less intelligent human beings. Aside from within their legions, that is.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: peasgoodnonsuch on February 16, 2012, 03:36:26 PM
I don't trust poorly written articles and this one is poorly written. As for method, the article doesn't describe much of one beyond a large sample size. What factors were controlled and how? How were the samples selected? Did they have a detailed definition for what qualifies as right and left sided political views? How do those definitions compare to ours today? Did they use Canadian politics and children or ones from the US? All of these things matter if we are to understand the import of the study and none of them are provided in the article.

Furthermore, as someone here already pointed out, correlation doesn't prove causation and the IQ test is a questionable meter of intelligence.

Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Frozencat99 on February 16, 2012, 05:22:03 PM
Some of the comments on the article seem as if they were ripped from Youtube  :laugh:.

**NOTE** for people who didn't read the article that was linked inside of this article, the findings analyze to massive studies conducted in the UK.

Some thoughts:
- I do think that, much like some people here, the conclusion isn't overall that drastic. If the average left-winger is more intelligent than the average right-winger, both can be extremely intelligent.
- It intrigued my that level of education acquired was a controlled variable... many people shift around on the political spectrum following their education.
- This seems like one of those studies where only the opponents (right-wingers in this case) would bring up the problems with the intelligence quotient.
- Again, is it really ~that surprising~ that the average homophobe or racist is of less than average intelligence?
- If you're that interested in criticizing the unknown methodology, control variables, populations sampled and politics, perhaps you should buy the article itself/access to Psychological Science
- Correlation may not prove causation but strong correlations are much more valid and hard to challenge. As examples, race is strongly correlated with crime rates and sexuality is strongly correlated with STD infection rates. While the conclusions are equally deplorable, in order to challenge a correlation, you have to prove that a secondary factor also impacts the variable (selective policing and abuse of per capita rates, respectively). The study concludes that this is indeed a correlation but doesn't state whether or not it is strong or weak... it is premature to challenge or to accept the findings.

@peas the secondary news article asking for peoples' feelings has no bearing on the (in)validity of the findings. If you are really that disappointed with it, you could have read the one it directly linked to. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

The article title could be a bit less blunt. What can you expect from an article that paraphrases a dailymail article, though? It kind of seems obvious to me that  people who score poorly on standardized testing (at least when controlled for race but that's another topic) could gravitate to be more close-minded and racist/sexist/homophobic. That was just an opinion before this study, though I'll be looking forward to getting a copy of the full thing or seeing an actually intelligent rebuttal.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 10:12:09 AM
It's very interesting to me how this article seemed to define "right wing" as exclusively defined by homophobia and racism.  It doesn't really touch on people who may identify as "right wing" on economic or national security-type issues or a libertarian belief in smaller government.  It would be more accurate to write that "people with homophobic and racist views have lower intelligence and are drawn to such beliefs because it makes them feel safe," instead of using such a blanket term.  Conservative ideology encompasses more than just the tired old black-and-white "family values" issues, and it would be very interesting to see a study like this done on people who identified their political beliefs about the economy or military intervention or some other set of issues.  Beyond its bad choice of wording, though, its an interesting study and I think their method seems pretty legit, definitely took someone a lot of work to pull this study off.
You know what, after actually reading the article I was going to say the same thing: bad choice of wording. I would, however, like to see study on IQ differences between adherents of conservative/liberal ideology. My guess is conservatives have (generally) a higher IQ b/c humans (even/especially "intelligent" humans) are generally more selfish than not, less empathic than compassionate, lack relationships with people of different socio-economic statuses, in general are ignorant of the link between psychological/social factors and work ethic, don't understand the role that genetics plays in decision making...and then it makes sense that they'd do what's best for themselves and their small circle of relationships (hence, be conservative). My opinion, but doesn't mean much unless we see a study on this.

Anyways, I remember a survey they did (let me see if I can find it) where they found a pattern separating conservative/liberal people. The gist of the study went something like this: "liberals are generally much more able to put themselves in conservative's shoes and draft convincing arguments on why conservatism is awesome (even though they don't believe it) while conservatives are generally only able to argue for conservative viewpoints." Conservative/liberal bias seemed to have little to do with IQ (according to that study) and more to do with empathy and intellectual flexibility (others types of "intelligence"). I'll search for it, or you could...
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 17, 2012, 10:33:14 AM
^^
Nah, I remember reading Simon Baron Cohen's book, Zero Degrees of Empathy, and he reckons that research shows the more intelligent/educated you are, the more empathy you are likely to have. It's empathy that drives a lot of the left's notions of social security or welfare systems and a lack of empathy that drives the more conservative notion of fending for yourself or standing on your own two feet.

From the DM:
Quote
In adulthood, the children were asked whether they agreed with statements such as, 'I wouldn't mind working with people from other races,' and 'I wouldn't mind if a family of a different race moved next door.'
They were also asked whether they agreed with statements about typically right-wing and socially conservative politics such as, 'Give law breakers stiffer sentences,' and 'Schools should teach children to obey authority.'
The researchers also compared their results against a 1986 American study which included tests of cognitive ability and questions assessing prejudice against homosexuals.

So they were asked questions that are typically associated with right wing belief structures and these were compared with their answers to questions about race and suchlike. Simple really.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: peasgoodnonsuch on February 17, 2012, 10:53:16 AM
Jrong and flasyb may be particularly interested in this semi-relevant episode of This American Life. It's pretty fascinating and touches on some theories behind super successful people and any trend of lack of empathy/greater selfishness.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/436/the-psychopath-test


To Frozencat: You're right, I gave it a cursory reading and cursory judgement. Unfortunately, I don't really care that much so it's not really worth paying money for it. Especially as I am certainly no stats expert nor a psych expert. But thanks for all the info!

I would only add that opponents are not the only people that would challenge the IQ as a valid test of intelligence. Actually to be more accurate, I question the IQ test not for it's actual methodology or accuracy but rather for the concept and culture it supports. I am a firm believer that intelligence comes in many different guises and that the standard cultural definition of it is given far too much weight in the way we judge and value others. Quantifying intelligence fosters this idea in our culture that a person's worth is based on one narrow definition of intelligence that can be measured and compared.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 10:59:27 AM
^^
Nah, I remember reading Simon Baron Cohen's book, Zero Degrees of Empathy, and he reckons that research shows the more intelligent/educated you are, the more empathy you are likely to have. It's empathy that drives a lot of the left's notions of social security or welfare systems and a lack of empathy that drives the more conservative notion of fending for yourself or standing on your own two feet.

From the DM:
Quote
In adulthood, the children were asked whether they agreed with statements such as, 'I wouldn't mind working with people from other races,' and 'I wouldn't mind if a family of a different race moved next door.'
They were also asked whether they agreed with statements about typically right-wing and socially conservative politics such as, 'Give law breakers stiffer sentences,' and 'Schools should teach children to obey authority.'
The researchers also compared their results against a 1986 American study which included tests of cognitive ability and questions assessing prejudice against homosexuals.

So they were asked questions that are typically associated with right wing belief structures and these were compared with their answers to questions about race and suchlike. Simple really.
Well, let's find that study I talked about, then. ;)

Empathy isn't cleanly correlated to IQ. Cohen is tripping. Seriously. In fact, I would guess that once your IQ gets to 140 and above then you'd be considerably less empathic. High-IQ people (140+) tend to be socially-awkward, don't have a huge amount of relationships, things required for developing empathy, amigo.

Why did the "dumber" kids say "give law breakers stiffer sentences"? All I see is "dumber" kids repeating the "status quo" (which happens to be conservative) which they know to be safe. If "liberalism" was the "status quo" I'm sure the dumber kids would also repeat liberal lines. In fact, just take a look at some OWS ppl who clearly don't have an IQ above 105 and listen to the way they repeat things which are considered the "status quo" within their own organic/anarchist communities. I've spent time in liberal/anarchist communities and have seen plenty of folks blindly repeat "liberal status quo" stuff -- and usually they weren't that intelligent.

To say there is a direct correlation between IQ and Empathy is really pushing it. There are plenty of smart people who comment on this forum and just by the nature of their comments, it's clear to me that they are NOT empathic. Cohen's study is bunch of bunk, imho.


Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 11:06:08 AM

 I am a firm believer that intelligence comes in many different guises and that the standard cultural definition of it is given far too much weight in the way we judge and value others. Quantifying intelligence fosters this idea in our culture that a person's worth is based on one narrow definition of intelligence that can be measured and compared.

I think most of us can agree with this ^. There are so many types of intelligence. Although IQ seems to be a form of intelligence, it is given WAY too much prominence. There's social intelligence, emotional intelligence, musical intelligence, kinesthetic intelligence, whatever-intelligence...
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 17, 2012, 11:10:34 AM
^^
Certainly more than a single study. He found that people who are intelligent are less likely to break laws (or at least get found out to be breaking them  ;) ) and less likely to have things like psychopathy (more commonly known as anti-social behaviour disorder these days). This is why many of the people who get arrested for acts of violence are of low intelligence. Prisons aren't populated largely by geniuses.

People who are intelligent are more likely to be able to see things from another person's perspective and "put on their shoes and walk around in them, Jem." This is the very crux of empathy. Interestingly, he found that scientists and people who perform experiments, surgeries on people are, unsurprisingly, likely to have lower empathy. However, the trend was the more intelligent you are, the more empathy you have.

To say that there's a direct correlation between intelligence and empathy isn't pushing it, it's empirical fact given the current evidence (or at least that's what I took from Cohen). It also makes a lot of sense to me. I'd recommend it as a read although Cohen's final narrative might be too liberal for some people (he's in favour of freeing serial murderers if they have been rehabilitated). It's a well referenced book so, if I have the time, I might be able to dig out the studies that he references.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
Is Cohen talking about IQ or a broader definition of intelligence?

Definitely does not seem to be a direct/linear correlation between empathy/IQ. My guess is people below a certain IQ (let's just say 105) lack empathy and simply conform to the status-quo which surrounds them while people above a certain IQ (140) lack relationships and social intelligence that creates empathy.

There might be a range (let's say between 110-135) where the higher IQ you have the more empathy you're capable of -- but even then you're just "more capable" of empathy than others of lower IQ, not necessarily more empathic. Someone with an IQ of 110 could be way more empathic (because of a multitude of relationships with "the other" in life) than someone with an IQ of 130 (who has been surrounded by people who look and feel just like them).

Anyways, I'll take a look at Cohen's study to see the results. I don't argue with fact (if it is fact) but I'm guessing it's not as simple as he/you portray it.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: peasgoodnonsuch on February 17, 2012, 11:37:16 AM
All of this talk got me thinking about my beloved Myers-Briggs theory. Here's some food for controversial thought.

***DISCLAIMER*** I have not read everything I'm linking to nor am I condoning, promoting or condemning anything contained therein. I just find it may be relevant fuel for the discussion.

http://politicsandprosperity.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/intelligence-personality-politics-and-happiness/

A controversial blog post supporting the idea that NT combinations have higher IQs and that Right-wingers are actually more intelligent and happier than Left-wingers. Date: 2004

http://www.personalitypathways.com/article/emotional-intelligence.html Discussion on EQ's growing importance against IQ and if the MBTI definition of Thinking is really unrelated to the definition of Feeling

Shttp://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-021508-211201/unrestricted/IQP_JMW.pdf Study from WPI (Worcester Polytech Institute) examining literature regarding the relationship of Intelligence and Personality Type

http://research.similarminds.com/intelligence-test-performance-and-myers-briggs-type/28 Chart comparing MBTI types with results of a Visual Intelligence Test. Cursory glance gives no legit source for study.

*EDIT* My apologies for posting the same link twice rather than the link for the blog post I was supposed to put! It's fixed now.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 17, 2012, 11:41:02 AM
^^
True, I'm definitely talking about a broader definition of intelligence and Cohen put a lot of emphasis on education too.

I'm not sure why you think that intelligent people struggle to form relationships. People with a high IQ don't lack social intelligence as far as I'm aware. If anything, they more likely to be smart enough not to say stupid things that might lead to the being socially ostracised. I suppose there is an image of the intellectual loner but I seriously doubt that having a high IQ is such a social handicap as you suggest. I would have thought that a low IQ (or low intelligence) would leave a person less able to articulate themselves, how they feel and their wants/needs (making them less functional socially). The opposite would be true for people with a high IQ (or high intelligence) who at the same time are more able to see things from multiple perspectives and thus empathise.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Davox on February 17, 2012, 11:53:01 AM
^^
Nah, I remember reading Simon Baron Cohen's book, Zero Degrees of Empathy, and he reckons that research shows the more intelligent/educated you are, the more empathy you are likely to have. It's empathy that drives a lot of the left's notions of social security or welfare systems and a lack of empathy that drives the more conservative notion of fending for yourself or standing on your own two feet.

From the DM:
Quote
In adulthood, the children were asked whether they agreed with statements such as, 'I wouldn't mind working with people from other races,' and 'I wouldn't mind if a family of a different race moved next door.'
They were also asked whether they agreed with statements about typically right-wing and socially conservative politics such as, 'Give law breakers stiffer sentences,' and 'Schools should teach children to obey authority.'
The researchers also compared their results against a 1986 American study which included tests of cognitive ability and questions assessing prejudice against homosexuals.

So they were asked questions that are typically associated with right wing belief structures and these were compared with their answers to questions about race and suchlike. Simple really.
Well, let's find that study I talked about, then. ;)

Empathy isn't cleanly correlated to IQ. Cohen is tripping. Seriously. In fact, I would guess that once your IQ gets to 140 and above then you'd be considerably less empathic. High-IQ people (140+) tend to be socially-awkward, don't have a huge amount of relationships, things required for developing empathy, amigo.

Why did the "dumber" kids say "give law breakers stiffer sentences"? All I see is "dumber" kids repeating the "status quo" (which happens to be conservative) which they know to be safe. If "liberalism" was the "status quo" I'm sure the dumber kids would also repeat liberal lines. In fact, just take a look at some OWS ppl who clearly don't have an IQ above 105 and listen to the way they repeat things which are considered the "status quo" within their own organic/anarchist communities. I've spent time in liberal/anarchist communities and have seen plenty of folks blindly repeat "liberal status quo" stuff -- and usually they weren't that intelligent.

To say there is a direct correlation between IQ and Empathy is really pushing it. There are plenty of smart people who comment on this forum and just by the nature of their comments, it's clear to me that they are NOT empathic. Cohen's study is bunch of bunk, imho.

Like you, I'm not sure I buy any correlation, negative or positive, between IQ and empathy.  I know some smart people who have a lot of empathy and I know some fairly average (IQ-wise) people who have a lot of empathy.  I've seen the reverse (people with no empathy) for both IQ ranges, too.  Likewise, I'm not sure I see a connection between relationships and empathy.  I've known too many people who have functioning relationships (I wouldn't say happy, but that's just because of my definition of happy) where one or both people had very little empathy but happened to be compatible anyway.  I've also known a few people for whom their empathy was actually a fairly serious impediment to having a successful relationship.  I suspect this happens more than most of us think.

I would buy a connection between empathy and imagination, but I don't think we have a way to quantify or measure imagination, so that doesn't really help either.

Also, I'm not sure you're using status quo correctly in this context.  What you're talking about seems more like "echo chamber" or groupthink, which is a whole other phenomenon.   You were right about the status quo being conservative though.  It's part of the original definition of conservative.  That's because conservatism is, at it's core, "status quo".  It's in the name. What are we "conserving"?  The status quo.  It's the idea that things are fine, have pretty much always been fine for as long as the current society/system has existed and we shouldn't rock the boat.  Liberalism by contrast is at it's core all about changing or challenging the status quo.  It's the idea that things aren't "just fine", or that "just fine" isn't good enough, that we need to be constantly better than we were yesterday.  It's about trying to make the world a better place through change, usually via government because these are usually political movements. It thus, cannot really be the status quo, but is in fact about working towards the absence of a status quo.  It's constant change (hopefully good, but who knows because it's not as if we had time to test it out).

The fact that some countries (not naming names here) now believe that liberal and conservative instead mean a whole specific set of occasionally random yet unchangeable opinions on issues that affect their country today and didn't even exist say 150 years ago doesn't change the meaning or underlying core of each word/movement.

Also, if both these views seem at their core to be pretty retarded and a recipe for a terrible society should any one actually win, then congratulations, you now know more about politics than your average voter in a democracy.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 11:57:37 AM
^^
True, I'm definitely talking about a broader definition of intelligence and Cohen put a lot of emphasis on education too.
OK, well that changes everything, then :). IQ/Empathy clear/direct/linear correlation? No. Broader-intelligence/Empathy correlation? I guess so.


Quote
I'm not sure why you think that intelligent people struggle to form relationships. People with a high IQ don't lack social intelligence as far as I'm aware. If anything, they more likely to be smart enough not to say stupid things that might lead to the being socially ostracised. I suppose there is an image of the intellectual loner but I seriously doubt that having a high IQ is such a social handicap as you suggest. I would have thought that a low IQ (or low intelligence) would leave a person less able to articulate themselves, how they feel and their wants/needs (making them less functional socially). The opposite would be true for people with a high IQ (or high intelligence) who at the same time are more able to see things from multiple perspectives and thus empathise.
No, my friend.

Genius IQ's are associated with being somewhat of a loner for good reasons. You can't relate well to other people b/c they're on a different plain than you. For them, talking to another "human" often will probably feel  like us talking to a monkey. There's gotta be a study on how high IQ (140+) people struggle with having a large social network (or any social network). Seems like common sense. IQ is beneficial for social relationships up to a certain point but after genius level, it all goes down hill. Look it up, bro.

Low IQ folks can just flow with the group, go with the status quo. Join the baseball team. Allow the society you're surrounded by to do the thinking for you and just repeat the lines they give you. Being less-self aware they don't have to worry about how they're perceived as much. They can have a nice, broad base of relationships.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 12:06:46 PM

Like you, I'm not sure I buy any correlation, negative or positive, between IQ and empathy.  I know some smart people who have a lot of empathy and I know some fairly average (IQ-wise) people who have a lot of empathy.  I've seen the reverse (people with no empathy) for both IQ ranges, too.  Likewise, I'm not sure I see a connection between relationships and empathy.  I've known too many people who have functioning relationships (I wouldn't say happy, but that's just because of my definition of happy) where one or both people had very little empathy but happened to be compatible anyway.  I've also known a few people for whom their empathy was actually a fairly serious impediment to having a successful relationship.  I suspect this happens more than most of us think.

I would buy a connection between empathy and imagination, but I don't think we have a way to quantify or measure imagination, so that doesn't really help either.

When I say "relationships" I mean the amount, breadth, and diversity of relationships. In that case I do think there is a clear correlation between relationship/empathy. Someone who has many deep relationships with rich/poor, black/white, gay/straight will probably be much more empathic (b/c of their broader worldview) than someone who's just had deep relationships with people of the same race/socio-economic status/sexual orientation.

Quote
Also, I'm not sure you're using status quo correctly in this context.  What you're talking about seems more like "echo chamber" or groupthink, which is a whole other phenomenon.   You were right about the status quo being conservative though.  It's part of the original definition of conservative.  That's because conservatism is, at it's core, "status quo".  It's in the name. What are we "conserving"?  The status quo.  It's the idea that things are fine, have pretty much always been fine for as long as the current society/system has existed and we shouldn't rock the boat.  Liberalism by contrast is at it's core all about changing or challenging the status quo.  It's the idea that things aren't "just fine", or that "just fine" isn't good enough, that we need to be constantly better than we were yesterday.  It's about trying to make the world a better place through change, usually via government because these are usually political movements. It thus, cannot really be the status quo, but is in fact about working towards the absence of a status quo.  It's constant change (hopefully good, but who knows because it's not as if we had time to test it out).

The fact that some countries (not naming names here) now believe that liberal and conservative instead mean a whole specific set of occasionally random yet unchangeable opinions on issues that affect their country today and didn't even exist say 150 years ago doesn't change the meaning or underlying core of each word/movement.

Also, if both these views seem at their core to be pretty retarded and a recipe for a terrible society should any one actually win, then congratulations, you now know more about politics than your average voter in a democracy.
Thanks for clarifying. Groupthink, is a better word.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 17, 2012, 12:13:23 PM
All of this talk got me thinking about my beloved Myers-Briggs theory. Here's some food for controversial thought.

***DISCLAIMER*** I have not read everything I'm linking to nor am I condoning, promoting or condemning anything contained therein. I just find it may be relevant fuel for the discussion.

http://www.personalitypathways.com/article/emotional-intelligence.html

A controversial blog post supporting the idea that NT combinations have higher IQs and that Right-wingers are actually more intelligent and happier than Left-wingers. Date: 2004

http://www.personalitypathways.com/article/emotional-intelligence.html Discussion on EQ's growing importance against IQ and if the MBTI definition of Thinking is really unrelated to the definition of Feeling

Shttp://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-021508-211201/unrestricted/IQP_JMW.pdf Study from WPI (Worcester Polytech Institute) examining literature regarding the relationship of Intelligence and Personality Type

http://research.similarminds.com/intelligence-test-performance-and-myers-briggs-type/28 Chart comparing MBTI types with results of a Visual Intelligence Test. Cursory glance gives no legit source for study.
I love the MBTI! You have some awesome links today. The pain of desk-warming is melting away.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Frozencat99 on February 17, 2012, 12:56:35 PM
I'm much more of a supported of varied IQs based on control variables, to be honest.

A 130 IQ, for example, would be excellent for a minority member who attended an inner-city school, while it would be terrible for an upper class Caucasian who went to private school for their entire lives.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: hilarity ensues on February 17, 2012, 01:05:23 PM
A controversial blog post supporting the idea that NT combinations have higher IQs and that Right-wingers are actually more intelligent and happier than Left-wingers. Date: 2004

I'm having a really hard time finding where the articles you've posted say this, or even really understanding the point you're making... but maybe I'm just too lazy to read it and want some hardworking conservative taxpayer to do all the work of explaining it to me. 

 ;D
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Paul on February 17, 2012, 01:30:56 PM
Yeah, if anyone does have the link to the paper, please pop it up. Mostly I just want a copy for shits and giggles, but also to scan it for rigour. The conclusions seem too funny to be true confident. I actually downloaded it in full last week so I know it's freely available but unfortunately flushed the PDF off when cleaning out the work computer.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: TylerO on February 17, 2012, 02:26:51 PM
No, my friend.

Genius IQ's are associated with being somewhat of a loner for good reasons. You can't relate well to other people b/c they're on a different plain than you. For them, talking to another "human" often will probably feel  like us talking to a monkey. There's gotta be a study on how high IQ (140+) people struggle with having a large social network (or any social network). Seems like common sense. IQ is beneficial for social relationships up to a certain point but after genius level, it all goes down hill. Look it up, bro.

Low IQ folks can just flow with the group, go with the status quo. Join the baseball team. Allow the society you're surrounded by to do the thinking for you and just repeat the lines they give you. Being less-self aware they don't have to worry about how they're perceived as much. They can have a nice, broad base of relationships.

Unless you actually quote a study linking IQ and relationships, your point is only speculation and "common sense."  Additionally, saying "Look it up, bro" is a bit presumptuous (and rude) when you either are too lazy to find such study or have tried, but were unsuccessful.  Also, the analogy of a high IQ person talking with a low IQ person of a human to a monkey is flawed.  Any conversation can seem that way when people are talking about non-mutual interests.

Saying that "Low IQ folks can just flow with the group..." is again not backed up by anything. 

Now I'm not certain if IQ has any real effect on forming relationships, the whole idea of creating a study based on the ability of people to relate seems pretty murky in general.  Like most on here, I also believe that IQ is not a good indicator of intelligence, and trying to measure intelligence in general is pretty futile.  And with that we get back to the main topic - trying to compare political spectra based on something as flexibly interpreted as intelligence is damn stupid.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Frozencat99 on February 17, 2012, 03:15:05 PM
^^ I agree. I'm a criminal justice/history graduate and my boyfriend is in graduate school for experimental particle physics. I've seen his thesis and backed away slowly. If you don't share mutual interests or a base level of knowledge, conversations will automatically be difficult about those subjects. I'd say it'd be harder for a two people, a radical left-winger and a radical right-winger, with the same IQ to talk to each other than it would be for someone with a 140 to talk to a 100.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: peasgoodnonsuch on February 17, 2012, 03:17:54 PM
A controversial blog post supporting the idea that NT combinations have higher IQs and that Right-wingers are actually more intelligent and happier than Left-wingers. Date: 2004

I'm having a really hard time finding where the articles you've posted say this, or even really understanding the point you're making... but maybe I'm just too lazy to read it and want some hardworking conservative taxpayer to do all the work of explaining it to me. 

 ;D

Gosh! I'm so sorry! I posted the same link twice by accident. I guess I was too hasty. Here's the link to the blog article. http://politicsandprosperity.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/intelligence-personality-politics-and-happiness/

I will also edit my original to fix it.

As to my point? I don't have one. Didn't you read my disclaimer? I simply found them relevant to the topic and thought they might fuel the discussion. I also stated that I haven't read them myself and have no view, good or bad of what's contained therein.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 17, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
^^ I agree with that too.

I also thing Jrong needs to back up his speculations with something solid because at the moment it seems he's operating on "an appeal to common-sense" which doesn't really do it for me. I see no reason why someone with a high IQ would have less empathy that someone with a low IQ. They might end up with different interests and move in different circles but someone with an IQ of 140 would have no trouble talking to someone with an IQ of 100 so long as they stayed in the bounds of mutual interest but then again two people at the opposite end of the political and social spectrum with the same IQ (high or low) might have difficulty socialising civilly.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Spongeblob on February 17, 2012, 05:44:39 PM
I think it is likely that a gifted IQer could formulate better emotional barriers to shield him/herself from the hardships of transitory attachments while still maintaining a superficial empathy that is individually tailored to each situation (empathetic detachment).  Then he could become a transitory figure drifting aimlessy through life taking teaching jobs overseas while pursuing his true dream of eating the perfect Chicken Wing (right or left).  :)
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: hilarity ensues on February 18, 2012, 02:07:07 AM
I see no reason why someone with a high IQ would have less empathy that someone with a low IQ.

Yeah really.

'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' is logical enough for Mr. Spock to accept as an axiom, and it led to his saving the entire starship Enterprise at the cost of his own life.  I guess this isn't really empathy so much as philosophy but come on-- we all know he's a big softie inside and that's why he's such a great character... and one of peas' articles explained how flirting with these ideas does tend to produce a less rational, more empathic response.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 20, 2012, 10:40:03 AM
Hey flasyb,

High IQ is linked to social awkwardness. Here's a link with plenty of links to studies:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19174_5-unexpected-downsides-high-intelligence.html (http://www.cracked.com/article_19174_5-unexpected-downsides-high-intelligence.html)

"[High IQ] means you tend to be less agreeable and conscientious than the average Joe."
and
"Another unfortunate stereotype of smart people is that they're socially awkward nerds who are doomed to lives of celibacy until they get out of high school hell. Unfortunately, that one turns out to be totally true." Ha ha! Unless they move to Korea ;).

By the definition of social awkwardness above, it is linked to low EQ (which = low empathy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_quotient#Bar-On_model_of_emotional-social_intelligence_.28ESI.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_quotient#Bar-On_model_of_emotional-social_intelligence_.28ESI.29)

"Bar-On[1] defines emotional intelligence as being concerned with effectively understanding oneself and others, relating well to people, and adapting to and coping with the immediate surroundings ..."

Stereotypes exist for a reason. If you want me to drop the idea that highIQ peeps have lower empathy (in general) than others then show me some studies, otherwise it seems pretty intuitive. You have to convince me, man. I'm (economically)liberal-er than all of y'all but I can't deny that it still seems that HighIQ peeps have less empathy (in general) and therefore are more likely to be economically conservative. Prove me wrong, please. I'd like to not believe what I believe...
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on February 20, 2012, 10:50:30 AM
^^Thanks for posting these. I'm going to have to check them out and get back to you later though because I'm busy as hell this week (not a cop out!). High school camp with the new first graders.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on February 20, 2012, 11:03:08 AM
Sure, no worries man! I'm enjoying this conversation...
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: woman-king on February 20, 2012, 02:16:04 PM
If high IQ (like 140+, genius-level) is related to being less empathetic that might contradict the underlying findings of the original article that less intelligent people tend to be more racist, homophobic and generally judgmental and fearful and less compassionate towards those they deem "different."

I wonder if there would be a way to break down not just pure IQ but also factor in a sort of left-brain, right-brain divide.  I know this plays off some big stereotypes, but the few folks I've known who had very very high IQs and worked in the sciences or medical fields DID tend to be socially awkward (thinking of a couple relatives in particular) and didn't strike me as especially compassionate, though obviously I can't read their minds and it's wise to be careful when trying to assess others' level of virtue.  People who were "genius level" in a more right-brained area, like great writers or philosophers were often obsessed with issues and questions of virtue and justice and morality, and what really counts as right and wrong.

I'm sure there's great artists out there who wouldn't score high on IQ tests and artistic genius isn't exactly equivalent, in some sense, to having a sort of intelligence that gets a high IQ mark.  But I think there's people who would score very high on an IQ test whose skills and interests still fall within philosophy of various kinds and the arts--especially writing-related arts.  The stereotype of the high-IQ person who can't really relate well to others usually seems to be about someone with science-related skills.   

When I think about it, the writings I've read by people like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking (and the little bit I've read from Einstein) all strike me as pretty compassionate and globally aware and not at all disconnected from humanity.  I know those are just famous examples, not necessarily representative of every scientist with their intelligence level--in fact perhaps they're famous because they're exceptional in this area--but something to think about. 

What might compound the whole issue is the high rate of Aspberger syndrome in people with very high IQ's.  Aspbergers--which is on the autism spectrum--is basically the lack of certain skills that allow humans to read one another's nonverbal cues, and they're often perceived and stereotyped as cold, callous people who can't love or feel emotions, which isn't accurate, though they DO have genuine difficulty relating to others the way most of us take for granted.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: TheWB18 on February 21, 2012, 09:34:05 AM
I would guess the relationship is something like this, based on the two periods of testing:

- Smarter people tend to become more educated and/or enroll in more prestigious universities.
- Intellectuals, especially upper-cadre intellectuals at great universities, tend to be more liberal - not necessarily because they're smarter, but because any kind of intellectual production tends to lead towards the progressive end.  Or, in other words, the more theory you're studying/producing, the more progressive and/or liberal you'll be.

Just a guess.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Chadwickhhs on March 06, 2012, 02:01:17 PM
The dualist paradigm of the left-right spectrum is something I'm not in love with but people who tend to self define as liberal do tend to be more intelligent. Hard science masters and nobel prize winners are largely "left" leaning, often but not always secularist, thinkers.

The real problem with the acceptance of the left right assumption is that all issues can be summed up to equal and opposing sides and often to the discredit of alternative approaches. This is why you'll sometimes have a weird moment of overlap with an opposite side spectrum person depending on the issue.

I also think that the statement that high IQ people have less empathy is childish nonsense perpetuated by cartoons and 1950s space dramas. If high IQ people weren't considerate of others you wouldn't have free water cleansing systems being distributed in Africa. You wouldn't have a polio vaccine distributed at no cost for herd immunity. You wouldn't have opensource software and the world's largest internet encyclopedia being available to all and any. That "smart people are dicks" thing is an element of drama that gives an Achilles heel to a character conflict in tv. And cracked.com is the same comedy website that put out "why zombie invasions are ridiculous and basically impossible" and "why zombie attacks are more likely than you realize". It's a joke site.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on March 06, 2012, 02:07:10 PM
If high IQ people weren't considerate of others you wouldn't have free water cleansing systems being distributed in Africa. You wouldn't have a polio vaccine distributed at no cost for herd immunity. You wouldn't have opensource software and the world's largest internet encyclopedia being available to all and any.
I doubt any of those people are "high IQ" people. By high IQ we're meaning 140+. As someone who's worked in the humanitarian fields for years I have yet to meet a genius who developed programs like these. Above avg IQ? Sure, most humanitarians probably do have an above avg IQ. But genius? Nope. I have, however, met quite a few geniuses who are right-wing businessmen.

Show some facts, buddy. I would love to believe that left-wingers are more intelligent. As for genius-level IQ people being less empathic (on average)...it seems pretty straightforward, read what's been written already...
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Frozencat99 on March 06, 2012, 02:33:39 PM
If high IQ people weren't considerate of others you wouldn't have free water cleansing systems being distributed in Africa. You wouldn't have a polio vaccine distributed at no cost for herd immunity. You wouldn't have opensource software and the world's largest internet encyclopedia being available to all and any.
I doubt any of those people are "high IQ" people. By high IQ we're meaning 140+. As someone who's worked in the humanitarian fields for years I have yet to meet a genius who developed programs like these. Above avg IQ? Sure, most humanitarians probably do have an above avg IQ. But genius? Nope. I have, however, met quite a few geniuses who are right-wing businessmen.

Show some facts, buddy. I would love to believe that left-wingers are more intelligent. As for genius-level IQ people being less empathic (on average)...it seems pretty straightforward, read what's been written already...

Why are you calling for facts when all you've done is list some anecdotal evidence?
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Chadwickhhs on March 06, 2012, 02:35:52 PM
Your evidence of "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is anecdotal at best. If you want some Hollywood history consider the following.

In the United States in the 1950s, with the introduction of the atomic bomb and the American hunt to scoop up all of the Jewish scientists out of Germany before Russia did, scientific advancement began to have a certain image. A simple glance at the Nobel prizes for the last century will show you what I'm talking about. Approximately 30% of the 1900-1950 Nobel prizes were won by Jewish guys. Now why does this matter? Well, see even in America after the war Jews weren't very well liked. Combine the exclusionary (blood lineage) identity of the Jew and the academic advancement of the cherry picked scientists (while the average ones were left tragically to die) and you have a middle and lower class resentment of the "snobby" Jewish element. The anti-intellectualism that followed was popularized in television as portraying intelligent people (the frame-swap for Jew) as greedy, selfish, snooty and "unchristian". Intelligence was sabotaged and unwavering loyalty and dogmatism highlighted. The effects of this media framing still affect us today.

Now I'm an athiest born to a catholic family so what do I know. I did study broadcast history and law so I can fly back to America and pick up the sources if you want (I'm not gonna do that... Why would anyone do that?).
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on March 06, 2012, 02:42:52 PM
What I just said was anecdotal, it was more like saying: "So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."  (which no one has taken the time to do yet). That "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is not my evidence, just a "hey, prove me wrong since I've already given hard evidence" which you fail to do my friend.

I did, however, post plenty of facts on page 2 of this thread. Facts which currently prove you wrong (until you can prove them wrong). Just because the studies are linked off of cracked.com doesn't make them any less true/relevant. They're still scientific studies done by unis.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on March 06, 2012, 02:57:12 PM
Hey flasyb,

High IQ is linked to social awkwardness. Here's a link with plenty of links to studies:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19174_5-unexpected-downsides-high-intelligence.html (http://www.cracked.com/article_19174_5-unexpected-downsides-high-intelligence.html)

I read this. Not convincing. I'm currently reading one of the studies cited by this article. The study cited as apparently showing the link between intelligence and poor social skills actually states the opposite here:

http://shawneehistory.tripod.com/16.pdf

Quote
There is a generic inverse relationship between intelligence and rule breaking that has been observed
across a wide spectrum of behaviors. For example,
intelligence is negatively correlated with acquiescence, crime, delinquency, truancy, and out-of-wedlock births, and conversely is positively correlated with moral reasoning and development, and social
skills (6 8).  For some forms of rule-breaking, the
relationship with intelligence may be significantly
nonlinear (9)

The study actually concerns itself with the relationship between sexual activity in adolescents including under-age sex (teen pregnancy and suchlike) and intelligence. Entirely in adolescents. Really, I think this "evidence" that you have provided is poor if not entirely contradictory to your own statements. However, I will continue reading and search for my own evidence.

As things stand I'm still convinced, as another user said, that you have a negative and mistaken cartoon stereotype of someone with a high IQ.

That being said, as we already have established, IQ is probably not the best indicator of overall intelligence so I suspect that evidence I do find will show a positive correlation between high intelligence and empathy but not necessarily between high IQs and empathy. In that sense, we might end up arguing two different sides of a similar coin.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Chadwickhhs on March 06, 2012, 03:13:51 PM
Exactly right flasyb. There is a fundamental difference between Anti-social behavior and Non-social behavior. And contrary to most television shows, most anti-social people are compulsive and poor planners. Hannibal Lecter is not the true face of anti-social. Most non-socials are quiet and probably in their rooms playing dragon warrior.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: flasyb on March 06, 2012, 03:27:39 PM
Exactly right flasyb. There is a fundamental difference between Anti-social behavior and Non-social behavior. And contrary to most television shows, most anti-social people are compulsive and poor planners. Hannibal Lecter is not the true face of anti-social. Most non-socials are quiet and probably in their rooms playing dragon warrior.

I certainly wouldn't consider Hannibal Lecter unsocial. He's a gentleman monster. Were it not for his carnal tendencies, I might accept an invitation to dinner from him  ;) .


Ultimately, there is a positive correlation between high intelligence and good social skills. Whether that extends to people in the IQ range that Jrong is talking about is another question. I suspect it does but I'd rather drop IQ from the debate and compare actual intelligence from a range of methods including Social IQ and EQ.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Davox on March 06, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
What I just said was anecdotal, it was more like saying: "So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."  (which no one has taken the time to do yet). That "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is not my evidence, just a "hey, prove me wrong since I've already given hard evidence" which you fail to do my friend.

I did, however, post plenty of facts on page 2 of this thread. Facts which currently prove you wrong (until you can prove them wrong). Just because the studies are linked off of cracked.com doesn't make them any less true/relevant. They're still scientific studies done by unis.

Most people ignored your "facts" because they were as inconclusive as the rest of the crap in this thread.  You quoted cracked.com and wikipedia.   The wikipedia article doesn't actually support any of your claims at all, and is instead an explanation of EI/EQ, including reasons why most people consider it a pretty crappy measure of anything.  Which, like IQ, it is.  IMO, of course, but many people agree with me, including ones with very high IQ and EQ.  The cracked article you linked at least does link to journal articles, but the only article it links that directly supports your position at all states (when you actually read the thing, which I did) only that there is an inverse realtionship between vocabulary size in high school and likelyhood of having had sex there. 

So I guess if you believe that people don't mature after highschool and that having sex is the most emotionally mature thing a person could ever do, then you'd be correct.

The fact is that we don't really and can't really have proper "facts" about these sorts of things, because we just don't have useful definitions of things like intelligence, emotional maturity, or even simpler things like left and right wing.  This thread was always going to be, like you said:

"So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."

except that no proof is possible on either side.



...although, for you to demand, for no real reason, that the entire burden of proof lies on the other side is a sadly common yet pretty crappy debating tactic, BTW.

 
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Jrong on March 06, 2012, 04:25:25 PM
What I just said was anecdotal, it was more like saying: "So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."  (which no one has taken the time to do yet). That "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is not my evidence, just a "hey, prove me wrong since I've already given hard evidence" which you fail to do my friend.

I did, however, post plenty of facts on page 2 of this thread. Facts which currently prove you wrong (until you can prove them wrong). Just because the studies are linked off of cracked.com doesn't make them any less true/relevant. They're still scientific studies done by unis.

Most people ignored your "facts" because they were as inconclusive as the rest of the crap in this thread.  You quoted cracked.com and wikipedia.   
I hope you're owning up to your own crappy contributions, too. So I was wrong about the study, what's new? No, seriously, I sincerely apologize for wasting anyone's time on that, I got it wrong there. Hell, I was too lazy to actually read through the study and just took cracked.com's explanation of it (which was misleading).

Quote
The wikipedia article doesn't actually support any of your claims at all, and is instead an explanation of EI/EQ, including reasons why most people consider it a pretty crappy measure of anything. Which, like IQ, it is. IMO, of course
There are a lot of criticisms of EI, but it's still accepted by a wide-range of people, smart people too :). To say that most people (like over %50) consider IQ a crappy measure of anything may be true but to say that most high-IQ people consider it a crappy measure of anything has got to be completely false for common sense reasons. The definition of EQ did completely support my claim that High IQ people have lower EQ's. Problem is it relied on a logical "link" that says High IQ people are more socially awkward. The study didn't give me that "fact" at all, instead cracked.com inferred it, misleadingly. Again, apologies but thanks for keeping me honest.

Quote
So I guess if you believe that people don't mature after highschool and that having sex is the most emotionally mature thing a person could ever do, then you'd be correct.
We're talking in broad generalizations here. I do believe that generally, having at least some sexual partners is a sign of emotional/social maturity -- moreso than not. If social intelligence is closely linked to emotional intelligence (seems to be under the current definitions), then never having had a sexual partner would mean being more unempathic (lower EQ). The study only focused on highschool students, which admittedly, is flawed b/c they can mature, sure. If the study was about adults not having sex...then I'd be confirmed in my suspicions.

Quote
The fact is that we don't really and can't really have proper "facts" about these sorts of things, because we just don't have useful definitions of things like intelligence, emotional maturity, or even simpler things like left and right wing. 
I'm not convinced we can't find out "facts" about the link between genius IQ and empathy.

Quote
This thread was always going to be, like you said:

"So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."

except that no proof is possible on either side.


...although, for you to demand, for no real reason, that the entire burden of proof lies on the other side is a sadly common yet pretty crappy debating tactic, BTW.

Of course there's a real reason, I actually do care to know. I'm curious. I'm posting on an internet forum filled with desk-warming ppl who have nothing better to do with their time than be on this forum (apparently), so it's not unjust for me to demand proof b/c I'm curious and "YOU" have a lot of time on your hands. You are lost, my friend, if you think all I want is a debate. It's not about debating (trying to prove your side is right) no matter how misleading my wording has been, I just want to know. I believe I can know. I was banking on somebody being heavily emotionally invested in this topic enough to give some cold hard facts but the fact is, when I take a step back I see that this topic is kinda lame. I want to know, but not bad enough to stop watching documentaries and actually read through the long-ass study I posted, apparently. ;)

No worries.
Title: Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
Post by: Chadwickhhs on March 06, 2012, 04:57:35 PM
Totally desk warming here. But I don't want to be too obvious about doing nothing. I'm new to this and all. 8)