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Career Venue => Contract, and Job Related Issues => Topic started by: cruelshoes on January 12, 2018, 06:29:36 PM

Title: i have three job offers in songpa, oksu-dong, and seocho... help!
Post by: cruelshoes on January 12, 2018, 06:29:36 PM
okay, so i have been trying to hold off making a decision on three hagwons and i just don't know what to do! i need some help deciding, if anyone can help? there are things that are pleasing about all three, but i'm trying to decide between contracts while also trying to compare locations.

songpa: 2.2m with roundtrip airfare, standard benefits (only 1 sick day and could be fired after two more unpaid absences), 18000 overtime rate, 50% pay for training, 120 teaching hours a month, business casual clause, and a very nice ofictel within walking distance without a security deposit. foreign teacher is staying and very nice and super communicative. really enjoyed the girl i interviewed with. 9 to 6 teaching kindergarten/elementary.

oksu-dong: 2.2m with one-way airfare, standard benefits (only 3 sick days), 18000 overtime rate, 30000 a day for training/orientation, 124 teaching hours a month, and i am still trying to find out about the housing because the teacher they put me in contact with doesn't utilize it, but the security deposit is 500,000. weird clause about having to pay fines for terminating the contract early. foreign teacher has loved her job, but she is leaving and can't really speak to what is going to happen in the future because the hagwon was recently purchased by a corporate chain, so no one knows what kind of changes will come. 9:30 to 6:30 teaching kindergarten/elementary.

seocho: 2.3m with one-way airfare, standard benefits (3 sick days), 18000 overtime rate, 30000 a day for training/orientation, 120 teaching hours a month, and also still trying to find out about the housing, but the security deposit is 500,000. weird clause about having to pay fines for terminating the contract early. still waiting to talk to a foreign teacher as well. 9:20 to 6:30 teaching kindergarten/elementary.

i am leaning towards the songpa school because it just feels right and i really like the apartment and the people i have talked to. the pay is decent and it includes round-trip airfare. the contract seems fair over all except the sick days policy concerns me a bit and business casual might be a tiny drag, but i'm told we can wear jeans, so i would be totally fine with that. my only other issue is that songpa is the furthest away from the city center.

seocho, on the other hand, is more centrally located and making the extra cash would make up for the roundtrip airfare. i just don't think the termination clause is very fair (although, i know myself and even if i hated it, i'm not a quitter, so it doesn't really apply... it's just a matter of principal) and the training pay isn't particularly inspiring, but it's short-lived, so... should i even care?

the oksu-dong location doesn't really offer anything different as far as pay and it's more teaching hours, but it seems like the location makes it easier navigating around the city center. that's literally the only thing i can say about it.

i have never been to seoul nor have i ever worked in a hagwon, so if anyone can shed any light on these areas or what brief details i have offered... i would kindly accept any direction or wisdom. i know all hagwons are not created equal, so i am just trying to make sure that i am in the best location while also being treated equitably. thank you in advance for all of your help.
Title: Re: i have three job offers in songpa, oksu-dong, and seocho... help!
Post by: dalkyr on January 14, 2018, 07:57:38 PM
First off, a semi-review of the jobs and their terms:

Quote
songpa: 2.2m with roundtrip airfare, standard benefits (only 1 sick day and could be fired after two more unpaid absences), 18000 overtime rate, 50% pay for training, 120 teaching hours a month, business casual clause, and a very nice ofictel within walking distance without a security deposit. foreign teacher is staying and very nice and super communicative. really enjoyed the girl i interviewed with. 9 to 6 teaching kindergarten/elementary.

-2.2m is ok, but not great in Seoul.
-1 sick day is a little on the low side.
-I'm assuming by "2 or more unpaid absences" you mean 2 or more *unexcused* absences. Key difference. Assuming it's actually "unexcused", that's pretty standard. As long as it's "Warning then notice of termination" rather than "fired immediately".
-18000 is low for OT. Standard is 25000.
-Half pay for training is kinda BS, but pretty normal.
-If you've talked to a current teacher and enjoyed your interview, I'd lean towards this one.

Quote
oksu-dong: 2.2m with one-way airfare, standard benefits (only 3 sick days), 18000 overtime rate, 30000 a day for training/orientation, 124 teaching hours a month, and i am still trying to find out about the housing because the teacher they put me in contact with doesn't utilize it, but the security deposit is 500,000. weird clause about having to pay fines for terminating the contract early. foreign teacher has loved her job, but she is leaving and can't really speak to what is going to happen in the future because the hagwon was recently purchased by a corporate chain, so no one knows what kind of changes will come. 9:30 to 6:30 teaching kindergarten/elementary.

-See above on salary.
-See above re: OT Rate.
-30000/day for orientation is ridiculously low.
-124 is a weird number of teaching hours.
-It's not a "security deposit". They *say* it's a security deposit, but it's not. It's purely there to recoup their expenses if you pull a midnight run.
-Fines for quitting are illegal. Unfortunately pretty standard these days, but VERY illegal. Without seeing the clause I can't tell you exactly what's wrong, but those types of clauses are a big red flag.
-Purchased by a chain? Franchised? Hard to say what'll happen, but things will either change completely or stay exactly the same. I'd be a bit leery of it, though.

Quote
seocho: 2.3m with one-way airfare, standard benefits (3 sick days), 18000 overtime rate, 30000 a day for training/orientation, 120 teaching hours a month, and also still trying to find out about the housing, but the security deposit is 500,000. weird clause about having to pay fines for terminating the contract early. still waiting to talk to a foreign teacher as well. 9:20 to 6:30 teaching kindergarten/elementary.

-2.3m is better.
-See above for all the other points. (OT, Training rate, deposit, termination clauses)
-If you haven't talked to a teacher (or they can't connect you with one) it's generally a sign that things are no good.


As far as the different areas go, Seoul's metro and bus system is excellent, so you can generally get anywhere from anywhere.

Oksu-dong *seems* like it's more central on the map, but that's kinda deceptive. There's a limited number of metro lines in the area, so you're gonna have to do a lot of transferring to get anywhere.

Seocho is a BIG area. If you're in the northern part there are lots of metro lines, and thus relatively easy access to the rest of the city. However, if you're in the southern part (Naegok-dong, Wonji-dong, you're relatively screwed in terms of transport.

Songpa is kinda out on the edge, but still relatively accessible. You can get to Itaewon in ~35min. Songpa is also close to Suseo Station, so you can take the SRT trains around Korea. SRT is (generally) a bit cheaper and faster than the regular KTX trains.

Personally I'd lean towards the Songpa contract, based on the limited information available. I'd suggest posting the contracts (Either all 3 or just the Songpa one) in the contract-review section. Dave and I will give you a more in-depth breakdown on what's good and what's bad.
Title: Re: i have three job offers in songpa, oksu-dong, and seocho... help!
Post by: cruelshoes on January 15, 2018, 03:56:53 AM
thank you so much for your input! i went ahead and posted in the contract review section as per your instructions.

songpa: i know the pay isn't super great, but i have the tiniest bit of experience and i am still working on my tefl, so i was honestly surprised anyone considered offering me more than 2.1m. i tried to negotiate on the overtime rate, but they insist i won't actually be working any overtime, so they say it doesn't matter. odd. i am also having them clarify that as long as i have a doctor's note or something to that effect, i should be okay if i were to fall ill, and not immediately terminated.

oksu-dong: it was a small independent hagwon that was purchased by a large corporate chain, and it worries me that no one knows what is going to happen... additional oceans of untested waters scare me a bit.

seocho: the fines thing super bother me. i am not one to quit, but when i brought it up to my recruiter, his attitude towards it was less than appreciated. same as far as the training pay. i like the 2.3m, but i don't know what to think since i haven't spoken to a teacher and haven't seen an apartment.

i think i am leaning ultimately towards songpa, so it's good to know that i won't be out in no-man's land if i were to choose it over the other locations. i still am not entirely sure where the other two schools are because i cannot pull anything up on google maps, so who knows.

again, i appreciate your analysis and your help.