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Teaching => Theory and Practice => Topic started by: lazerbullet on March 17, 2017, 06:58:07 PM

Title: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: lazerbullet on March 17, 2017, 06:58:07 PM
Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?

Obviously the two are different things. But Koreans use the same word for both, and the word 'England' appears next to the Union Jack ubiquitously. It frustrates me no end.

Do you teach your kids that this is incorrect?
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 17, 2017, 08:01:45 PM
Yes I've been to a lot of schools where they have the union jack on the wall next to a sign saying England. Of course I wouldn't expect any Korean kids to know or care about the difference but you'd think Korean English teachers might have bothered to suss it out. I remember my French teachers at school were experts on everything French and seemed to love talking about the culture. 

As for teaching it, I'd only go out of my way to explain the difference if I was teaching a culture class or students about to go to the UK. Being English it doesn't really bother me but it'd be interesting to hear whether Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish get the hump.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: oglop on March 17, 2017, 08:20:47 PM
kids generally don't give a shit, but it always surprises me how some kids know the distinction.

i'd only bother with adults if it came up at some point. they usually seem quite interested (which is probably why it is being discussed), and you get that nice 'aha' moment when you explain the formation of the union jack

otherwise, no
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Aristocrat on March 17, 2017, 08:31:39 PM
Absolutely, I did it this week with the "I'm from Canada" lesson, with a well designed PPT it takes 30sec to explain.
I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English, I also showed the old South African flag (which has the Dutch flag and Union Jack on it) to illustrate the point.
Certainly, a few kids couldn't give a crap, but the majority of the class's face light up with a big 'aha' as the mystery they might have been pondering for a while has finally been solved.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: oglop on March 17, 2017, 10:39:32 PM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Horsey on March 17, 2017, 10:41:38 PM
I do. Why not say you are from the UK, or British?  Students should know that from the Olympics anyway. To show a British flag and call it England's flag etc is just false. It's not that complicated and I don't wanna falsify fundamental facts just to dumb things down.

Besides, in my mind England is 잉글랜드 and the UK is 영국.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Aurata on March 17, 2017, 11:56:36 PM
Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?

Obviously the two are different things. But Koreans use the same word for both, and the word 'England' appears next to the Union Jack ubiquitously. It frustrates me no end.

Do you teach your kids that this is incorrect?

I enjoy teaching it because I enjoy history and Koreans seem fascinated by it.

If you teach adults, it is worth devoting a lesson to it because there is so much in this one topic that is useful and that Koreans can relate to.

For example, if you teach the history of how the English language came to be, Koreans are intrigued that English was practically banned after the Norman conquest and French took precedence. It also explains all those silent letters and so on.

Koreans are also entranced by the history of how the different nations became united (military conquest in the case of Wales, intermarriage between the Stuarts and Tudors in the case of Scotland, and colonisation (Ireland).
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: chrisinkorea2011 on March 18, 2017, 06:23:47 AM
For the higher students, I do. I like to inform them that the United Kingdom doesnt just consist of England but multiple countries which usually gets surprised gasps like England is the only one there.
Since I am American, I also like to teach basic differences in spelling and terms since some students will say "zed" or "z" and others will get that confused look.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 18, 2017, 06:38:05 AM
I do. Why not say you are from the UK, or British?  Students should know that from the Olympics anyway. To show a British flag and call it England's flag etc is just false. It's not that complicated and I don't wanna falsify fundamental facts just to dumb things down.

Besides, in my mind England is 잉글랜드 and the UK is 영국.

It is complicated. There are lots of terms to explain, like the difference between Britain, Great Britain and Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It also gets a lt more complicated when you teaching it to adults and one of them asks why Northern Ireland exists.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: CO2 on March 18, 2017, 11:57:40 AM
Being English it doesn't really bother me but it'd be interesting to hear whether Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish get the hump.

I've heard about how the Welsh get the hump.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Pecan on March 18, 2017, 12:17:24 PM
The books have it wrong, so we corrected it during lesson one.

That said, we don't depart from the curriculum to teach an in-depth lesson.

Most of my students know the flag of England from the scavenger hunt we do, and some boys know it from soccer.

Anytime, the book has an error, we correct.  Don't you?
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Mr C on March 18, 2017, 09:01:59 PM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.  REMOVED
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 18, 2017, 09:15:37 PM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: kimchiyum on March 18, 2017, 09:43:50 PM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)

I think by having a section on Ireland in your PPT on the UK confuses things even more Mr.C. And eggieguffer- all Irish alcohol is top class. They know their stuff. Are you sure you didn't try something else by mistake?? You should take a road trip to Ireland and try out all the local varieties.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 18, 2017, 10:29:11 PM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)

I think by having a section on Ireland in your PPT on the UK confuses things even more Mr.C. And eggieguffer- all Irish alcohol is top class. They know their stuff. Are you sure you didn't try something else by mistake?? You should take a road trip to Ireland and try out all the local varieties.

With all due respect, once you get out into the sticks in Ireland, it's generally  Guinness, Smithwicks or Harp lager (also made by Guinness) . For myself, not being a big stout fan it's a choice between a watery fizzy pasteurised 'ale' or a lager that's on a par with Cass. Your average English pub will probably have a couple of real ales plus all of the above, plus more.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: englishteacher2016 on March 20, 2017, 07:29:39 AM
I taught my students about the UK last week, and then my coworker proceeded to explain to them that the republic of ireland was part of the united kingdom.


I contemplated telling her that that would be like calling Korea part of Japan, but I decided to hold my tongue.   8)
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Mr C on March 20, 2017, 07:42:06 AM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
I don't want to get into the beer debate--I like it all, pretty much--but the flag thing shouldn't be confusing.  Surely the teacher can take a moment to discuss the two Irelands, the one in the UK being the Northern one ...
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 20, 2017, 08:13:49 AM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
I don't want to get into the beer debate--I like it all, pretty much--but the flag thing shouldn't be confusing.  Surely the teacher can take a moment to discuss the two Irelands, the one in the UK being the Northern one ...

Only the flag in your PPT isn't the Northern Irish one. There are actually three flags. The diagonal St Patrick's flag in your PPT from when Ireland was united and was incorporated into the Union Jack, the tricolour representing the republic of Ireland from after the Irish civil war and the ulster flag of Northern Ireland, which looks like the English flag with a hand and crown.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: yirj17 on March 20, 2017, 09:52:30 AM
Certainly!  Though on a very basic level and just if there's a relevant lesson regarding countries/flags-- I simply show a PPT slide that shows the different flags that make up the Union Jack and then they all come together.  Whether they will remember the distinction is another story altogether but students seem to like it (I see the "aha!" moment in their faces). 
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Falling_Sky on March 20, 2017, 02:12:35 PM
Absolutely, though my co-teacher looked more surprised than my students ^^
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: lazerbullet on March 20, 2017, 03:38:55 PM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
I don't want to get into the beer debate--I like it all, pretty much--but the flag thing shouldn't be confusing.  Surely the teacher can take a moment to discuss the two Irelands, the one in the UK being the Northern one ...

Only the flag in your PPT isn't the Northern Irish one. There are actually three flags. The diagonal St Patrick's flag in your PPT from when Ireland was united and was incorporated into the Union Jack, the tricolour representing the republic of Ireland from after the Irish civil war and the ulster flag of Northern Ireland, which looks like the English flag with a hand and crown.

Northern Ireland has no official flag!
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 20, 2017, 03:52:04 PM
I never said it did
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: slycordinator on March 21, 2017, 04:38:15 AM
I moved back to the US. I have 11th and 12th grade high schoolers that don't know the difference. It's not just the issue of the language.

Besides, in my mind England is 잉글랜드 and the UK is 영국.
Sure, but are you Korean?

An old Korean teacher once went through a PPT with us showing various common flags of us foreigners and we'd say where we come from in Korean.

Her: This is the UK.
Me: By the way, I think that's the flag of England. It's definitely not the UK flag.
Her: Wait. What's the difference?
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Mr C on March 21, 2017, 07:45:44 AM

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
I don't want to get into the beer debate--I like it all, pretty much--but the flag thing shouldn't be confusing.  Surely the teacher can take a moment to discuss the two Irelands, the one in the UK being the Northern one ...

Only the flag in your PPT isn't the Northern Irish one. There are actually three flags. The diagonal St Patrick's flag in your PPT from when Ireland was united and was incorporated into the Union Jack, the tricolour representing the republic of Ireland from after the Irish civil war and the ulster flag of Northern Ireland, which looks like the English flag with a hand and crown.
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 21, 2017, 07:53:25 AM
Quote
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Fair enough, though it's a little ironic that this whole thread originated from a post about Koreans misrepresenting flags, and now you're in effect saying they don't matter as well.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: chrisinkorea2011 on March 21, 2017, 07:56:31 AM
Quote
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Fair enough, though it's a little ironic that this whole thread originated from a post about Koreans misrepresenting flags, and now you're in effect saying they don't matter as well.

You heard of the golden girls? Well Mr. C is a golden boy by all standards and likes to get pissy sometimes if something isnt his standards or thoughts.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Mr C on March 21, 2017, 09:45:20 AM
Quote
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Fair enough, though it's a little ironic that this whole thread originated from a post about Koreans misrepresenting flags, and now you're in effect saying they don't matter as well.

You heard of the golden girls? Well Mr. C is a golden boy by all standards and likes to get pissy sometimes if something isnt his standards or thoughts.
Oh, please.  First, there is no misrepresentation in the materials I posted.  I simply am not going to spend time on the history of the Emerald Isle when I want to distinguish England from the UK in a thirty second time frame.  You can do whatever you want.

Furthermore, I see no need to drag personal attack into the discussion.  I was not dismissive or insulting or personal.  It remains true that you or eggie or anyone should feel free not to use my materials if you find them in any way wanting.

Is it worth pointing out that no one else has offered anything to the poster I was responding to?
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 21, 2017, 10:16:44 AM
Quote
First, there is no misrepresentation in the materials I posted.

On the second slide you've got a picture of the old Irish flag next to the country labelled Northern Ireland. That's not the Northern Irish flag, so it's exactly the same as writing England next to the Union Jack.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Chinguetti on March 21, 2017, 10:19:30 AM
If it comes up as part of a lesson or game (where they're learning about different places or where geography can get plugged in), I'll bring it up as quick trivia FYI, which always surprises them. It doesn't bother me that they don't really know geography outside of Asia, though. I use it to my advantage. The kids here love trivia in general, and memorization is their thing, so if I go through a slam-lesson where I quickly show them some countries with names and flags, then stick that info into a game later where they have to recall it... keeps them sharp during my class. xD

This reminds me of the time I was speaking to an Indian man and he was legitimately angry with me for not knowing a specific region in India. Pfft. I don't expect him to know all of the counties in the state of Texas, do I? Or even the States of the U.S.A in general. C'mon.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Mr C on March 21, 2017, 01:05:09 PM
Quote
First, there is no misrepresentation in the materials I posted.

On the second slide you've got a picture of the old Irish flag next to the country labelled Northern Ireland. That's not the Northern Irish flag, so it's exactly the same as writing England next to the Union Jack.
Ah, I see.  Yes, then I should have placed the flag a couple of inches south and bit more west, so that it referred to the whole island. I stand suitably chastened, although it's still not misrepresentation so much as the non-optimal placement of a graphic that will be seen for 10 seconds.

And I did make a distinction between NI and Republic, even if you don't like the color of the beer.

Still, I am totally not going to teach the history of Ireland while trying to separate the concept of England from the UK.

Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 21, 2017, 01:12:50 PM
Quote
Ah, I see.  Yes, then I should have placed the flag a couple of inches south and bit more west, so that it referred to the whole island. I stand suitably chastened, although it's still not misrepresentation so much as the non-optimal placement of a graphic that will be seen for 10 seconds.

You're either teaching kids something or you're not. if you don't want them to learn about the different UK flags don't show them at all. If you want them to learn about the different UK flags, show them the proper flags next to the proper countries, that's all. You don't have to be chastened, just thank me for pointing it out, change the PPT and move on.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: steviegerro on March 21, 2017, 02:00:17 PM
As a Scot I spend my entire time abroad being asked where I am from. If I answer the UK then they'll take that answer as England. It can be nippy!

To be fair, most people recognize the accent, however most have trouble with the UK. Or Great Britain, which is technically different from the UK. Even Brits don't have a clue what's going on half the time.

In my class I will correct anyone about where I am from if they say England. Nothing against the English, I just hate bad geography.

Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: richardtejedo on March 21, 2017, 02:05:18 PM
Yes! So frustrating, not only is it factually incorrect to put England next to the Union jack but it disregards the other 3 countries in the UK. My co-teacher didn't even know there was a difference. I used this ppt to explain the difference, the students understood the difference after.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: kobayashi on March 21, 2017, 02:34:04 PM
i'm forced to teach it because it comes up in one of the textbooks. the book has the union jack as the flag for england  :huh:
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: gidget on March 21, 2017, 06:37:12 PM
I've had 2x CTs ask me about the difference and they both mentioned it in their classes as an interesting fact but that's as far as it's ever gone.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Nialljcr on March 22, 2017, 10:12:11 AM
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 22, 2017, 11:19:55 AM
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

Not that it makes any difference to the argument but I'm Anglo Irish and I don't think likening the Northern Irish situation to The Japanese conquest of Korea is a good idea. it's adding fuel to the idea most people round the world have that Northern Ireland is a remaining colony of  the UK that would prefer to be part of a united Ireland. As we know protestants have been colonising Ireland since the 16th century, most of them coming from Scotland in fact which was part of a united UK at that time. Families who had lived in Ireland since the 16th century then voted in the majority to remain part of the UK in what is currently Northern Ireland.  There's no reason why you can't relate this to intelligent adults.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: akplmn on March 22, 2017, 12:06:27 PM
My fifth grade textbook taught England but used the Union Jack, so I considered it, but in the end I didn't bother.  With high level kids, I would have, but I have low level kids, and teaching something different than the textbook really confuses them.  Frankly, just getting them to remember the word "England" was challenge enough.  I'll leave the political nuances of the UK vs Great Britain vs England for middle school.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: Nialljcr on March 22, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

Not that it makes any difference to the argument but I'm Anglo Irish and I don't think likening the Northern Irish situation to The Japanese conquest of Korea is a good idea. it's adding fuel to the idea most people round the world have that Northern Ireland is a remaining colony of  the UK that would prefer to be part of a united Ireland. As we know protestants have been colonising Ireland since the 16th century, most of them coming from Scotland in fact which was part of a united UK at that time. Families who had lived in Ireland since the 16th century then voted in the majority to remain part of the UK in what is currently Northern Ireland.  There's no reason why you can't relate this to intelligent adults.


Each to their own fella.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: fas6pa on March 22, 2017, 01:52:45 PM
What difference?
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: steviegerro on March 22, 2017, 03:35:41 PM
What difference?

I will not bite, I will not bite, I will not bite!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: lazerbullet on March 22, 2017, 04:56:36 PM
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

I think the Japan/Korea thing is a good way of relating it to them. Though @eggie obviously no analogy is perfect. Maybe it's better to compare the home nations that make up the UK to provinces that make up korea? But then does kind of lose the subtlety that they are nations/kingdoms themselves.
Title: Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
Post by: eggieguffer on March 22, 2017, 05:07:06 PM
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

I think the Japan/Korea thing is a good way of relating it to them. Though @eggie obviously no analogy is perfect. Maybe it's better to compare the home nations that make up the UK to provinces that make up korea? But then does kind of lose the subtlety that they are nations/kingdoms themselves.

The thing is, in my experience,  what nialjcr says to his students is what they pretty much all assume anyway - that England 'conquered' the whole of Ireland but were forced to give most of it back, except the Northern bit. They generally find it interesting to get the truth.