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International => North America => USA => Topic started by: thunderlips on February 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM

Title: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
IMPEACHED!!! I personally can't wait. At least Mike Pence can form an intelligent sentence and understands basic government functioning.

Reasons to impeach can be found here, plus any new ones that may will arise in the near future.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/318045-the-house-can-start-impeachment-against-trump-now

Quote
Poll: 4 in 10 support impeaching Trump

Autoplay: On | Off
Much of the public is eager for the impeachment of President Trump. A poll last week found that 40 percent of Americans already “support” impeaching him, and the same survey — by highly regarded Public Policy Polling — found that another 12 percent are “not sure.”

From the outset of his presidency, Trump has been violating the U.S. Constitution in a way that we have not seen before and should not tolerate. It’s time for members of Congress to get the impeachment process underway.

The Constitution states that to start impeachment proceedings, a document or “resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question” must be introduced in the House of Representatives. Such a move would have been appropriate from the moment that Trump became president.
As documented in depth on the ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org website — where more than 600,000 people have already signed a petition for impeachment — the president continues to violate two “emoluments” clauses in the Constitution. One prohibits any gifts or benefits from foreign governments, and the other prohibits the same from the U.S. government or any U.S. state.

To uphold the bedrock principle that no one should be above the supreme law of the land, a resolute member of the House must now take the lead in introducing a resolution to get impeachment rolling. That process is necessarily difficult — and essential.

Former White House counsel John Dean, who served President Nixon from 1970 to 1973, told The Atlantic magazine: “I don’t think Richard Nixon even comes close to the level of corruption we already know about Trump.”

Since that interview with Dean three weeks ago, we’ve been learning more about Trump’s unconstitutional corruption as president. The case that Trump is in flagrant violation of the Constitution gained added strength over the weekend when The Associated Press reported: “New documents confirm that President Donald Trump retains a direct tie to his business interests through a revocable trust now being overseen by one of his adult sons and a longtime executive of the Trump Organization.”

What’s more, AP reported, “Trump is the sole beneficiary of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, which is tied to his Social Security number as the taxpayer identification number, according to documents published online by the investigative nonprofit ProPublica. And Trump can revoke the trust, which was amended three days before his inauguration, at any time.”

Members of Congress should initiate an impeachment process because of two clear provisions in the Constitution.

The Foreign Emoluments Clause says: “[N]o Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States], shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.”

And the Constitution’s Domestic Emoluments Clause (also known as the Presidential Compensation Clause), which cannot be waived by Congress, says: “The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”

In addition, a House committee’s impeachment probe should also investigate whether President Trump is violating the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge Act of 2012 (STOCK Act). One of the few federal ethics statutes that specifically include the president, the STOCK Act — among other provisions — prohibits the president from (1) using nonpublic information for private profit, and from (2) intentionally influencing an employment decision or practice of a private entity solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation.

A crucial test for democracy is whether people in high places can violate the law with impunity. For democracy in the United States, the biggest danger is unchecked presidential ability to violate the Constitution.

In a speech on the House floor last Thursday that spelled out some of Trump’s extreme conflicts-of-interest, Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI) closed with a cogent reference to the fact that Congress can “even explore the power of impeachment.”

Let the exploration begin.

Norman Solomon is co-founder of the activist group RootsAction.org, which has nearly 1 million supporters online. He was a Bernie Sanders delegate from California to the Democratic National Convention, where he was the leader and coordinator of the Bernie Delegates Network. RootsAction and Free Speech For People are sponsoring the grassroots impeachment campaign at ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org."



https://www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/

And then there is the actual man running the show:

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/02/06/trump-not-fully-briefed-order-elevating-bannon-security-council

Quote
President Donald Trump reportedly did not realize he was promoting chief strategist Steve Bannon to the National Security Council (NSC) Principals Committee when he signed the executive order dropping intelligence and defense officials from the top government panel and elevating the former Breitbart News chair in their place.

The New York Times reported over the weekend that Trump had not been fully briefed on his own executive order, which became "a greater source of frustration to the president" than the protests and legal actions over his travel ban blocking immigrants from seven majority-Muslim countries.

Reporters Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman depicted an administration that's just barely keeping a lid on its internal crises, turf wars, and lack of preparation—and a scheming chief strategist that's successfully taken advantage of it all.

They wrote:

[White House chief of staff Reince] Priebus told Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon that the administration needs to rethink its policy and communications operation in the wake of embarrassing revelations that key details of the orders were withheld from agencies, White House staff, and Republican congressional leaders like Speaker Paul D. Ryan.

Mr. Priebus has also created a 10-point checklist for the release of any new initiatives that includes signoff from the communications department and the White House staff secretary, Robert Porter, according to several aides familiar with the process.

Mr. Priebus bristles at the perception that he occupies a diminished perch in the West Wing pecking order compared with previous chiefs. But for the moment, Mr. Bannon remains the president's dominant adviser, despite Mr. Trump's anger that he was not fully briefed on details of the executive order he signed giving his chief strategist a seat on the National Security Council, a greater source of frustration to the president than the fallout from the travel ban.

Trump seemingly clarified on Twitter that he calls his own shots, "largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it." He also accused the Times of writing "total fiction" about him.

The executive order promoted Bannon, a white nationalist with no foreign policy or government experience, to a regular seat at some of the most sensitive meetings at the highest levels of government, along with other NSC meetings. Meanwhile, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—who need to be confirmed by the Senate—were directed to only attend meetings when discussions pertain to their "responsibilities and expertise."

The memo led to speculation that the right-wing power grab in the executive branch could be setting the stage for a coup d'état.
Title: Re: When will Trump be ...
Post by: grey on February 07, 2017, 01:02:30 PM
My guess is he never will be impeached.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 07, 2017, 01:14:46 PM
 Trump's latest executive order! 

Oh no!!!

 :shocked:



http://hepwori.github.io/execorder/
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 07, 2017, 01:22:56 PM
Meh, I take those articles with a grain of salt. Of those 40% calling for his impeachment, not sure really what crime they want him charged with specifically and the detail of the charges they would accuse him of. Really, its "I don't like him and wish he wasn't President", which isn't grounds for impeachment. If the emoluments thing is indeed a serious violation, what would probably happen is a court order for him to further divest or risk impeachment, but since the law is unclear, he would have to first face some sort of hearing and subsequent court order.

As far as Bannon running the show, that's just a bunch of left-wing noise set up to drive a wedge between Trump and his adviser in an effort to cause tension within the office. President's get advice from everyone and how much of his decisions are based on Bannon is pure speculation. Also, Bannon is not a white supremacist or fascist any more than Bernie Sanders is a Communist, contrary to left-wing hysteria. The whole coup d'etat thing might as well be from the left's version of infowars.

Media against him, Bannon is alt-right and in charge of a lot of things, picking on China, banning Muslims and then being kicked in the balls by judges stopping him, Spicer's aggressive press conferences, his cabinet picks are billionaires so not sure they 'the people' at the heart of  their ideas just greed for themselves, his proposed ambassador for the EU will be blocked by EU members, his proposed UK visit where we don't actually want him and MPs won't turn up and he just wants photos with the Queen and that is about it, his choice for middle eastern advisor is his son-in-law.  That is all before we talk about his own horrible sexist, racist, dumb-ass, short attention span, phone-putting-down, self.  What are we on 17 days? 

None of which are grounds for impeachment. The media is against him to the point of losing objectivity. Again, Bannon is a fictitious monster that they've turned into some sort of Rasputin. Tensions with China have existed since 1949. The Muslim ban is not a Muslim ban, although it is on shaky constitutional ground (but more for country of origin). Anyways, people seem to be forgetting that Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Libya, Yemen and Iraq don't exactly have what we'd call the most stable of governments with the best of record keeping. Iran doesn't have formal diplomatic relations with us. We are under no obligation to accept citizens from such a country. Ambassadors being blocked is not grounds for impeachment and the EU is teetering as it is.

By all means raise concerns and protest his policies, but keep it based in reality. A lot of people have really lost it when it comes to Trump.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 07, 2017, 01:24:16 PM
Trump's latest executive order! 

Oh no!!!

 :shocked:



http://hepwori.github.io/execorder/

Glad to see our fears of Trump are based in reality.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 07, 2017, 01:38:07 PM
Trump's latest executive order! 

Oh no!!!

 :shocked:



http://hepwori.github.io/execorder/

Glad to see our fears of Trump are based in reality.


 That IS a real order. Really!   :laugh:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: bmym80 on February 07, 2017, 02:22:19 PM
Better question is when is Park Guen-hye going to be impeached? Trump is just getting warmed up. Wait til' he pisses on the Constitution and says he made america better.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 07, 2017, 02:47:45 PM
Sorry to pop the liberal dream world bubble...

But there is no win scenario. The problem is American society is rotten to the core, as a result of 50yrs of bad decisions (including liberal "progressive" values, and corporatism of both the left/right). Trump/Bannon are not the problem, so anti-democratic lefty fascists are not going to impeach them, and "magically all better now".

The corporate liberal dream of "getting rid of Trump" would only make him a martyr, which would bring an even nastier revolution. Maybe start dealing with the actual problems instead???  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on February 07, 2017, 02:50:02 PM
Sorry to pop the liberal dream world bubble...

But there is no win scenario. The problem is American society is rotten to the core, as a result of 50yrs of bad decisions (including liberal "progressive" values, and corporatism of both the left/right). Trump/Bannon are not the problem, so anti-democratic lefty fascists are not going to impeach them, and "magically all better now".

The corporate liberal dream of "getting rid of Trump" would only make him a martyr, which would bring an even nastier revolution. Maybe start dealing with the actual problems instead???  :rolleyes:

If his approval rating hits a low enough level the backlash may not be too bigly.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 07, 2017, 02:53:42 PM
If his approval rating hits a low enough level the backlash may not be too bigly.

You can't quiet the mob with "look at these statistics we made up".  :rolleyes:

...they are on to that trick.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on February 07, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
If his approval rating hits a low enough level the backlash may not be too bigly.

You can't quiet the mob with "look at these statistics we made up".  :rolleyes:

...they are on to that trick.

Quite a different situation if his approval rating is 20% vs 45%. If people take the time to answer those annoying polls it speaks to their dislike.

If the mob is limited to the poorest, least-educated, most ill-informed people it wont travel very well.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on February 07, 2017, 03:34:22 PM
Sorry to pop the liberal dream world bubble...

But there is no win scenario. The problem is American society is rotten to the core, as a result of 50yrs of bad decisions (including liberal "progressive" values, and corporatism of both the left/right). Trump/Bannon are not the problem, so anti-democratic lefty fascists are not going to impeach them, and "magically all better now".

The corporate liberal dream of "getting rid of Trump" would only make him a martyr, which would bring an even nastier revolution. Maybe start dealing with the actual problems instead???  :rolleyes:

I know, why doesn't Trump just roll over counterrevolutionary running dog American protesters with tanks like your beloved China did in Tiananmen Square?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 07, 2017, 03:41:26 PM
If the mob is limited to the poorest, least-educated, most ill-informed people...

Hehe even they know the polls are made up. Just like they knew Obama's economy was made up.

Bottom line the libs can't take away their guy. It would prove the liberal fascists will not allow real democracy. Conservatives have guns.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 07, 2017, 03:46:31 PM
I know, why doesn't Trump just roll over counterrevolutionary running dog American protesters with tanks...

I don't understand the question. The protesters were baited into this action by him, why would he end them? They are in charge of destroying liberal credibility. Keep up the good work kids!  ;D
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 07, 2017, 04:00:08 PM

...sounds pretty racially-supremacist and homophobically facist, to me. Hitler.

Yup, Trump is literally Hitler. His followers are all Nazis. Completely reasonable point of view that is based on facts and not hyperbole, propaganda, and delusion.

Where are all these Trumpers running around with guns and shooting gays, minorities, and leftists? How come there haven't been any pogroms? Shouldn't these nuts be racing across the country like some mass post-apocalyptic biker gang? What are Trumpers doing? Going to work.

Now, its not fair to characterize the left as a bunch of Antifas running around burning colleges and beating people up with pipes and bricks or engaging in mob attacks against defenseless women, any more than it is fair to characterize Trump by the few knucklehead extremists on his side.

People need to calm down and stop acting like its 1933 in Germany.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on February 07, 2017, 08:14:18 PM
I am not even sure what the criteria for impeachment is.  I interested to know what "high crimes and misdemeanors" means nowadays.  Nixon would have gotten impeached if he not resigned, but it was done because of a break-in and a robbery.  Meanwhile, he had been attacking countries not only without congressional authorization but secretly.  All kinds of secret programs that were revealed by the Watergate Investigation.  God knows how far you have to go to get impeached today.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 07, 2017, 08:32:48 PM
I am not even sure what the criteria for impeachment is.

Who knows, they tried to impeach Bill for getting his knob waxed or whatever. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 07, 2017, 10:11:38 PM
If The Donald is truly just signing any order that crosses his desk the 25th amendment (section 4) lays out the process for a President who is unable to fulfill his duties.

Amendment XXV

Section 1.

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on February 07, 2017, 10:22:46 PM
I am not even sure what the criteria for impeachment is.

Making peace with other countries will do it every time.

The military-security complex needs enemies to justify their $600 billion annual budget.


Threatening the oligarchy's source of income is the biggest offence possible in American politics.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 08, 2017, 07:26:51 AM
I am not even sure what the criteria for impeachment is.

Who knows, they tried to impeach Bill for getting his knob waxed or whatever.

Perjury and obstruction of justice, FYI.

Sure, they always have some legal-spin for their nonsense in America. The criteria is "people we don't like". They'll make up some nonsense for Trump too, if they can...

But might makes right, and Trump has the office, and a mob with guns.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: gideonvasquez on February 08, 2017, 08:10:21 AM
If The Donald is truly just signing any order that crosses his desk the 25th amendment (section 4) lays out the process for a President who is unable to fulfill his duties.
In practice I think that article is designed for use when a president is physically incapable of leading. Like if he gets shot and is brain-dead. There hasn't, before 1967, been a legal way or constitutional basis to briefly relieve the president of his powers so other elected officials can decide what to do.

Think stroke, not stupid when referencing this clause. It has also never been invoked even during all the hoopla that has occurred in the Oval Office between then and now. And according to the article the president just has to (within 21 days) send a written notice that he/she isn't unable to be president.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on February 08, 2017, 10:32:59 AM
I am not even sure what the criteria for impeachment is.

Making peace with other countries will do it every time.

The military-security complex needs enemies to justify their $600 billion annual budget.


Threatening the oligarchy's source of income is the biggest offence possible in American politics.

-whines incessantly about "oligarchy"
-unironically defends Trump oligarchy and Putin oligarchy
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 08, 2017, 11:11:01 AM
If The Donald is truly just signing any order that crosses his desk the 25th amendment (section 4) lays out the process for a President who is unable to fulfill his duties.

Amendment XXV

Section 1.

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

Signing laws that push the boundaries (and may later be deemed unconstitutional by the courts) is not grounds for impeachment.

Nor is he "literally signing every order on his desk". It's called the 1st 100 days and executive orders. Some of them I disagree with and I think he's relying to much on EXOs and I wish Congress would curb the scope of EXOs (have to go back in time), but that is not grounds for impeachment.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 08, 2017, 01:03:47 PM
Your "liberal" (misnomer) hissy fits crack me up. I forsee alot of entertainment coming my way for the next 8 years. ;D
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 08, 2017, 01:16:18 PM
I am not even sure what the criteria for impeachment is.

Who knows, they tried to impeach Bill for getting his knob waxed or whatever.

As far as I know he was impeached by the house. The senate did not confirm the impeachment, which meant he was allowed to finish his term in office whilst being technically impeached already. If the senate confirmed it he would have been required to step down before his term was up.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on February 08, 2017, 01:21:04 PM
Your "liberal" (misnomer) hissy fits crack me up. I forsee alot of entertainment coming my way for the next 8 years. ;D

I'd say the over/under is 17 years.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Samiam77 on February 08, 2017, 02:05:50 PM
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 08, 2017, 04:48:35 PM
Quote
Poll: 35 percent say impeachment justified
By Justin Sink - 07/14/14 01:23 PM EDT

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/212152-poll-35-percent-say-impeachment-justified
More than a third of all Americans and two-thirds of Republicans believe Congress would be justified in bringing impeachment proceedings against President Obama, according to a poll from YouGov and the Huffington Post released Monday.

Thirty-five percent of all respondents, including 68 percent of Republicans, say there's reason for Congress to try to remove Obama from office. By contrast, just 8 percent of Democrats say impeachment proceedings are justified.

The results mirror how Americans felt at a similar point during the George W. Bush administration. A 2007 poll from Gallup found that 36 percent of Americans believed Congress had reason to begin impeachment proceedings, including 54 percent of Democrats and 9 percent of Republicans.   

Add in the polls margin of error on the plus side for Obama and Bush and the numbers for all three Presidents look pretty close.  Furthermore, you could probably get at least 30% of Americans in a poll to say that Lincoln should be impeached…….

Every now and then I come back to Waygook looking for PPTs that I can use, and I recently found a new women’s KPOP Game template that I downloaded. Thanks.   KPOP is popular where I am now teaching.  When on the site I also read the non-teaching posts and decided to spend a little time expressing my humble opinions (probably a little too long) regarding several of the Trump discussions.  So, here are some thoughts from a person many anti-Trump people - the elitists - would consider to be “not cool” (e.g. deplorable). 

Although not good for America in the overall big picture, I hope the anti-Trump people - the elitists - continue to drink their Kool-Aid, and persist in not admitting/accepting the real reasons that Trump won.  Although I was not the most robust supporter of Trump on November 8th, I did support him over Clinton, and since the election I have found that my support has grown stronger.  Furthermore, I know that I am definitely not alone in this progression.  One reason for this growing support is that Trump is doing what he said he would do during the campaign.  The horror!  The horror!  A President actually doing what he said he would do during the campaign……

Another very significant reason is that since the election the elitists have been throwing a childish temper tantrum.  Essentially, they have been acting like a six year old at the checkout when his parent tells him he cannot have any candy.  America does not like sore losers.  You lose an election you plan for the next election.  You don’t threaten to destroy businesses unless they pledge allegiance to the elitist doctrine; or threaten Hollywood blacklists for entertaining at the inauguration (wasn’t there a senator from Wisconsin in the fifties who also liked Hollywood blacklists?); or threaten free speech by declaring that free speech only applies to those approved by the elitist free speech manifesto (what happened to the Free Speech Movement founded in the sixties?), or use the elitist media to propagate against Trump and then call it reporting.

I admit that I use to regularly pay attention to such news sources as the NY Times, Washington Post and CNN…….  In fact, many years ago my name was in a story on the front page Sunday edition of the NY Times and I appeared in several CNN news stories.  I actually felt that appearing in these “high” caliber news outlets gave me credibility to speak on certain topics, and many others thought the same.  However, now when it comes to political news I read or listen to these same media outlets in the same manner that I use to read the covers of the tabloids at the checkout counter.  I feel the same about Fox, but don’t consider them to be part of the elitist media syndicate.   Seems like I find myself watching NHK and BBC more than CNN…..

Since the original post included a poll, below is some additional reading for those that are interested.

Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech?  By the way, Politico is not known to lean to the right…..

Quote
Donald Trump might be more popular than you think

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-popularity-polling-234630

Once again, there's evidence suggesting traditional polls aren't accurately measuring support for the president and his policies.
By Steven Shepard
02/03/17 07:31 PM EST

Just how popular is Donald Trump? Two weeks into the new president’s term, it’s a matter of some dispute.

Traditional phone polls that use live interviewers — including some of the most trusted polls in politics and media — report limited support for Trump and the controversial executive orders he’s signed. But automated phone and Internet-based surveys tell a different story. Once the element of anonymity is added, the president’s approval ratings suddenly look a lot better………   

This next link should help the elitist Kool-Aid go down better (lol).  This article basically presents what the “major” players predicted for the Electoral College right before the election….

For example, the following is shown:

Quote
2016 Presidential Election Forecasts

http://www.270towin.com/2016-election-forecast-predictions/

1.  Associated Press Electoral Map Analysis
As of November 7th
2.  ABC News Presidential State Ratings
Final Forecast: November 4th
3.  CNN Electoral College Map
Final Forecast: November 4th
4.  NPR General Election Ratings
Final Forecast: November 7th
5.  NBC General Election Battleground Map
Final Forecast: November 7th
6.  Fox News Electoral Map
As of November 7th 

As I previously said my support has grown for Trump since election-day, and I stalwartly believe that many others feel the same.  IMHO, the path the elitists are currently blazing will lead to a second term for Trump (if he wants a second term).  I’m old enough to remember the Presidential elections of 1968 and 1972.  I’m not talking about what happened in 1974, but how a candidate who barely won the popular vote in 1968* - don’t think there’s been another political year like it in my lifetime (tumultuous) - won 49 States in 1972** (e.g. the country was ready for a little tranquility but the Left didn’t want to give it……).  I believe that in 2016 Clinton and the Democrats forgot how a person actually wins the Presidency, and that they are on the same course for 2020.

Quote
*1968 Popular Vote    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1968
Nixon - 43.42%
Humphrey – 42.72%
Wallace – 13.53%

**1972 Popular Vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1972
Nixon – 60.67% (49 States)
McGovern – 37.52% (1 State – Massachusetts)

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: walrus on February 09, 2017, 08:27:22 AM
Liberal-fascists, elitists, nazis....FFS did you people actually graduate from university? Interior design maybe?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on February 09, 2017, 09:01:31 AM
Liberal-fascists, elitists, nazis....FFS did you people actually graduate from university? Interior design maybe?
+1
All this partisan name calling is so childish. Partisans are suckers. Rational people vote on platforms, not by their party affiliations. Your entire family has voted blue/red for 20 generation? Who the hell cares? Spend a day figuring out what the current platforms are, decide which will benefit you/your country the most, and vote that way.

Politics has turned into just another sport: pick a team and back it no matter what.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 09, 2017, 12:09:20 PM
Quote
Donald Trump should be referred to the federal ethics office for his tweet attacking department store Nordstrom for dropping his daughter’s clothing line, a Democratic senator has suggested.

Bob Casey pointed the US Office of Government Ethics towards Trump’s message in a tweet, which read: “My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!” Trump’s message was later retweeted from the official presidential account, @potus.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/08/trump-nordstrom-tweet-ethics-bob-casey

Quote
Trump has refused to sell off his many businesses despite demands from critics that he do so to avoid multiple conflicts of interest.

He said on 11 January he would maintain ownership of his global business empire but hand control to his two oldest sons Donald Jr and Eric, along with Trump Organization chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, during his presidency.

Trump’s web of international companies remains opaque since he has refused to release his tax returns, which experts have said would provide a clearer view of his business interests.

Norman Eisen, Obama’s chief ethics counsellor, told Associated Press: “The Trumps are using the White House like the Kardashians used reality TV, to build and vastly expand their overall business enterprises.”

(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Steve-Carell-Facepalm.gif)

I'm sorry Ivanka, but if you've tried to always make your father do the right thing, then you've failed miserably.

Stop being an elitist. You are only complaining because Hillary lost. We love Trump and you lost!!  Get over it.


Just kidding. I can't understand how people can't differentiate between their politics (party) and what is unethical, immoral, and more than likely unconstitutional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vANWpIm6Jfc
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 09, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
Quote
Donald Trump should be referred to the federal ethics office for his tweet attacking department store Nordstrom for dropping his daughter’s clothing line, a Democratic senator has suggested.

Bob Casey pointed the US Office of Government Ethics towards Trump’s message in a tweet, which read: “My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!” Trump’s message was later retweeted from the official presidential account, @potus.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/08/trump-nordstrom-tweet-ethics-bob-casey

Quote
Trump has refused to sell off his many businesses despite demands from critics that he do so to avoid multiple conflicts of interest.

He said on 11 January he would maintain ownership of his global business empire but hand control to his two oldest sons Donald Jr and Eric, along with Trump Organization chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, during his presidency.

Trump’s web of international companies remains opaque since he has refused to release his tax returns, which experts have said would provide a clearer view of his business interests.

Norman Eisen, Obama’s chief ethics counsellor, told Associated Press: “The Trumps are using the White House like the Kardashians used reality TV, to build and vastly expand their overall business enterprises.”

(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Steve-Carell-Facepalm.gif)

I'm sorry Ivanka, but if you've tried to always make your father do the right thing, then you've failed miserably.

Stop being an elitist. You are only complaining because Hillary lost. We love Trump and you lost!!  Get over it.


Just kidding. I can't understand how people can't differentiate between their politics (party) and what is unethical, immoral, and more than likely unconstitutional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vANWpIm6Jfc

Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 09, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 09, 2017, 02:31:35 PM
You could be excused for thinking that Trump's understanding of democratic principles like the separation of powers and rule of law is on par with that Russian troll Aurata. :laugh:
 Unless he starts showing some deference towards the judiciary, it seems only a matter of time before a major f*ck up that could trigger an impeachment, where even some of his fellow republicans in the legislature abandon him. I guess it's a matter of if he loses enough of his  base of deplorables, which do seem rather tolerant of rank stupidity thus far. Birds of a feather, some might say!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 09, 2017, 02:39:53 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 09, 2017, 02:43:04 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: atemporaryaccount on February 09, 2017, 03:28:30 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

You can Google all of 45's conflicts of interest, all the reasons that justify impeachment.

Just your example, though. Yeah, he tweeted about something that happened to his family. He used his personal account. Then he retweeted it from his POTUS account. There's no justifying that. That's unethical.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 09, 2017, 04:22:18 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 09, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 

I agreed with basically your whole post.

But that part is especially important. Somehow the liberals have become the fear-based party. People ARE afraid to click like on something Milo says on say Facebook, or to talk about how they love Trump's policies, or to talk about men's rights, etc. This also makes any polling of Trump's popularity meaningless, as people are seriously afraid of getting labeled a "white supremacist" or "misogynist" or whatever meaningless insult.

But this also works for Team Trump's strategy, the silence from the right leads the "radical alt left" into arrogance, thinking everyone agrees with them, continuing to insult everyone (but minorities and women), while a growing part of the country want them to STFU ASAP.

These dummies still don't understand you can NOT win with just minorities. Men, white people, and conservatives still (barely) get voting rights.   :huh:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 09, 2017, 09:08:22 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 09, 2017, 09:42:13 PM
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder926/500x/58982926.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on February 09, 2017, 11:06:30 PM
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder926/500x/58982926.jpg)

Oh my god, there's a fish!


"from here to there, funny things are everywhere.
These yellow pets are called the Zeds.
They have one hair up on their heads.
Their hair grows fast, they say, they need a hair cut every day.

Dr. Seuss One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 10, 2017, 02:12:02 AM
Aside from chrismclea's red herrings, indicative of his lack of concern for obvious conflicts of interest, combined with a disinterest in Trump''s disdain for democratic principles, perhaps he should take Conway's lead (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sb08WTuGtM) and advocate buying one of Ivanka's frocks and some stilettos.  :laugh:

Code of Federal Regulations
2635.702 Use of public office for private gain. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/5/2635.702)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 10, 2017, 07:52:56 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/the-latest-trump-wishes-china-a-prosperous-new-year/2017/02/08/6daba6b6-ee6c-11e6-a100-fdaaf400369a_story.html?utm_term=.84b219dc35dc

"The top two lawmakers on the House Oversight Committee are asking ethics officials to review comments made by a top aide to President Donald Trump after she promoted Ivanka Trump’s fashion line during a television interview from the White House.

Reps. Jason Chaffetz of Utah and Elijah Cummings of Maryland on Thursday asked the Office of Government Ethics to review the comments by White House aide Kellyanne Conway. The lawmakers say Conway’s statement could “constitute an explicit endorsement and advertisement for Ivanka Trump’s personal business.”

Chaffetz, a Republican, chairs the oversight panel. Cummings is the senior Democrat."

So neo-cons your own party is recognizing the ethics violations of this administration. When will you be able to separate out our own inherent alt-facts to see the truth?



Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 10, 2017, 08:07:18 AM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 10, 2017, 08:11:17 AM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

It's a simple question.  Are you incapable of answering?

Perhaps you could also say whether or not Conway's message to "Go buy Ivanka's stuff" on live TV is ok.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: atemporaryaccount on February 10, 2017, 08:59:39 AM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.


Again, he tweeted from his personal and the POTUS accounts. You can interpret his tweet as disappointment, until he expresses it as the president. The point of the POTUS account is to exert influence.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: atemporaryaccount on February 10, 2017, 09:09:53 AM
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 

I agreed with basically your whole post.

But that part is especially important. Somehow the liberals have become the fear-based party. People ARE afraid to click like on something Milo says on say Facebook, or to talk about how they love Trump's policies, or to talk about men's rights, etc. This also makes any polling of Trump's popularity meaningless, as people are seriously afraid of getting labeled a "white supremacist" or "misogynist" or whatever meaningless insult.

But this also works for Team Trump's strategy, the silence from the right leads the "radical alt left" into arrogance, thinking everyone agrees with them, continuing to insult everyone (but minorities and women), while a growing part of the country want them to STFU ASAP.

These dummies still don't understand you can NOT win with just minorities. Men, white people, and conservatives still (barely) get voting rights.   :huh:

Legislation is being made to protect, very broadly, organizations (including basically everything) that want to refuse service to people based on moral judgments. Any judgment, as long as they claim (claim!) that it's religious in nature.

This can include a business not providing a service to you if you are gay or trans, or having sex outside of marriage, or divorced, or, I don't know, wearing clothes made of two different materials.

Could mean young gay kids not having support, or a place to go if they need one.

Could be people not getting care they need because of their personal choices.

Seattle pulled their business from Wells Fargo because the bank is invested in DAPL, which 45 supports. People are allowed to say what they believe and, within reason, act accordingly, right? First amendment and all, yes?

Right?

Trump's popularity is so low because his policies hurt basically everyone. That's the polls. Are you going to argue that people lie when being polled, not in public, because they're afraid? Lol. Trump has emboldened his supporters, if anything. Or disappointed them quickly and entirely.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: atemporaryaccount on February 10, 2017, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: atemporaryaccount

Trump's popularity is so low

http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/CP3_2/filters/PD1:1/dates/20170101-20170207/type/smallest

That said, polls still don't mean anything.

Those against Trump are much louder, but to say they outnumber those who support Trump may be a bit misleading.

I forgot who won the popular vote.

Anyway, his popularity is still low compared to other presidents entering office.

Not that it matters. My point is that almost everyone is at risk, 45-supporter or not.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on February 10, 2017, 09:45:07 AM
How is Trump's approval rating so high?

http://polling.reuters.com/#!poll/TM1028Y16_2
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 10, 2017, 11:31:12 AM
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 


Legislation is being made to protect, very broadly, organizations (including basically everything) that want to refuse service to people based on moral judgments. Any judgment, as long as they claim (claim!) that it's religious in nature.

Trump's popularity is so low because his policies hurt basically everyone. That's the polls. Are you going to argue that people lie when being polled, not in public, because they're afraid? Lol. Trump has emboldened his supporters, if anything. Or disappointed them quickly and entirely.

Agree!  If you operate a business that serves the public you should serve everyone.  A bakery should not be able to deny making a cake for a person who believes in gay rights, nor should a restaurant be able to deny service to a person who supports a particular candidate.  But, the elitists want to have their cake and eat it too.  Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.  Many elitists have clearly demonstrated that they believe discrimination is acceptable if such discrimination meets their political or personal positions/beliefs…….

In addition, if an elitist believes that they are “correct” about something such “correctness” equates to everyone else being not correct.  Their dogma supports the belief that if you are not correct about something that also means you have no right to free speech or free expression.  This position reminds me of people I met back in the day who were totally convinced that discrimination against people who were black was proper and justified.  They were so certain that they were correct in their thoughts that you could not have a reasonable conversation with them.  It was wrong back then and it is wrong today

Disagree about the polls.  I don’t believe the elitist media can accurately measure the public about Trump.  The elitist news organizations are so obsessed with Trump that they cannot objectively report, and that is why they will continue to get things wrong.     After all, everyone they know doesn’t like Trump; therefore, that must mean the whole country feels the same way…….

So, why isn’t Clinton president?  Look at the dates on these predictions for the Electoral College.  I mean, they did get it right, didn’t they?

Quote
  2016 Presidential Election Forecasts

http://www.270towin.com/2016-election-forecast-predictions/   

And what about the information in this story from the right leaning Politico?

Quote
  Donald Trump might be more popular than you think

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-popularity-polling-234630   

I originally supported Trump not because I completely agreed with how he articulated everything, but because something needed to be done to break the establishment lock.  Coming out of WW II one of the primary reasons that the U.S. became such a strong country (and yes envied country) is because we built a substantial middle class.  In the name of their political agendas both parties have been dismantling this middle class.  A strong middle class makes it much more difficult for the people at the top to control everything, and in D.C. control/money is what it is all about.  Trump will survive if he follows through…….

The article below is one of the best that I have found post-election that explains why Trump really won, and why neither Jeb Bush nor Clinton could beat Trump.  And why if he follows through, and wants a second term, he can win again.  Below are some excerpts.  For the complete article see the link. 

Quote
  Sorry, uncovering America’s racist underbelly wasn’t why Trump won
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/sorry-uncovering-americas-racist-underbelly-wasnt-why-trump-won-commentary.html
9 November 2016  Jake Novak | @jakejakeny 

Millions of Americans, especially those in the Washington establishment, woke up on Wednesday feeling shocked and hurt by the surprise election of Donald Trump to the White House. But like every failure or painful turn in life, it will mean nothing and lead to nothing but hurt feelings unless these wounded Americans learn a real lesson today and become tomorrow's wise. To do that, they must accept and learn the real reason Trump won.

First, they need to ignore the prevailing angry explanations that are all off the mark. The first incorrect reason many of us began hearing well before Election Day was that Trump was being bolstered by overt racists and more nuanced "alt-right" haters who were acting like a springboard after eight years of an African-American in the Oval Office………..

The second reason many people have been using as a crutch against the real reason for Trump's victory is sexism……..

The last wrong explanation for Clinton's loss is one people both on the Left and the Right are making: The Clinton email scandal……..

Nope, the real reasons Trump won have been real in America for at least the last 40 or so years. They are all the same reasons I finally recognized five-plus months ago when I first realized he was headed to victory. It's simple: The largest single economic group in our country has been sold out and ignored by the leaders of both parties for more than a generation. They are the hourly wage-earning Americans who have been bounced around from good manufacturing jobs, to service jobs, to seasonal work without the rest of us noticing that much.   And that's even though there are a lot more of them than the college-educated white collar office workers out there. You know the financial uncertainty you felt last night when you saw the Dow futures crash down by 750 points? That's the kind of emotion millions of your fellow Americans have been feeling every night for years even though they're not "poor" or even necessarily unemployed.

These are the people who have been the acceptable sacrifices for our trade and wage-deflating immigration policies that do boost our economy overall ... just not for them. These are the people who have been scoffed at for not choosing to go to college, even though doing so has become an exercise in playing a game of "economic chicken" with student loans and irrelevant skills.

  And it goes beyond economics. This is a divide that truly began in America during the Vietnam War, which was protested and defended by the rich and upper middle class while the lower middle class and poor actually did the fighting in country.   That divide and the wounds from it have never really healed. I doubt we'll ever see an exit poll this specific, but I'd be willing to bet that Trump won 60 percent plus of the Vietnam veterans' vote because he spoke to their past and current pain in a way actual Vietnam vets like John Kerry and John McCain — guys who actually served in the war — never could…………….

Hillary Clinton and the 16 Republicans who lost to Trump in the primaries failed because they really have thought of this group of people as "deplorables." Clinton was just the unlucky one who got caught saying so…………..   

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Snoah on February 10, 2017, 12:26:32 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

It's a simple question.  Are you incapable of answering?

Perhaps you could also say whether or not Conway's message to "Go buy Ivanka's stuff" on live TV is ok.
Well, I would say that is a bit of a faux pas but I usually don't concern myself with such trivialities that have almost no bearing on my life. It makes for an interesting commute/read. That's it. I'm happy to defer to the wisdom of the judiciary or congress given that i'm not a constitutional expert nor an expert on legal ethics. You can pursue your crusade for impeachment if you like. I'm not stressed. Call me when you got some real dirt on the scumbag.

And I will say this, careful of all these polls you guys are putting your faith in. We would not want you almost moving to the sunny shores of Yellowknife again.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 10, 2017, 12:28:33 PM
Does this first article mean that the elitists have created such a hostile environment that Americans are worried what will happen to them if they admit they support Trump?  Will they be assailed on airplanes?  Will their businesses be targeted?  Are they afraid to exercise their right to free speech? 


Legislation is being made to protect, very broadly, organizations (including basically everything) that want to refuse service to people based on moral judgments. Any judgment, as long as they claim (claim!) that it's religious in nature.

Trump's popularity is so low because his policies hurt basically everyone. That's the polls. Are you going to argue that people lie when being polled, not in public, because they're afraid? Lol. Trump has emboldened his supporters, if anything. Or disappointed them quickly and entirely.

Agree!  If you operate a business that serves the public you should serve everyone.  A bakery should not be able to deny making a cake for a person who believes in gay rights, nor should a restaurant be able to deny service to a person who supports a particular candidate.  But, the elitists want to have their cake and eat it too.  Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.  Many elitists have clearly demonstrated that they believe discrimination is acceptable if such discrimination meets their political or personal positions/beliefs…….

In addition, if an elitist believes that they are “correct” about something such “correctness” equates to everyone else being not correct.  Their dogma supports the belief that if you are not correct about something that also means you have no right to free speech or free expression.  This position reminds me of people I met back in the day who were totally convinced that discrimination against people who were black was proper and justified.  They were so certain that they were correct in their thoughts that you could not have a reasonable conversation with them.  It was wrong back then and it is wrong today

Disagree about the polls.  I don’t believe the elitist media can accurately measure the public about Trump.  The elitist news organizations are so obsessed with Trump that they cannot objectively report, and that is why they will continue to get things wrong.     After all, everyone they know doesn’t like Trump; therefore, that must mean the whole country feels the same way…….

So, why isn’t Clinton president?  Look at the dates on these predictions for the Electoral College.  I mean, they did get it right, didn’t they?

Quote
  2016 Presidential Election Forecasts

http://www.270towin.com/2016-election-forecast-predictions/   

And what about the information in this story from the right leaning Politico?

Quote
  Donald Trump might be more popular than you think

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-popularity-polling-234630   

I originally supported Trump not because I completely agreed with how he articulated everything, but because something needed to be done to break the establishment lock.  Coming out of WW II one of the primary reasons that the U.S. became such a strong country (and yes envied country) is because we built a substantial middle class.  In the name of their political agendas both parties have been dismantling this middle class.  A strong middle class makes it much more difficult for the people at the top to control everything, and in D.C. control/money is what it is all about.  Trump will survive if he follows through…….

The article below is one of the best that I have found post-election that explains why Trump really won, and why neither Jeb Bush nor Clinton could beat Trump.  And why if he follows through, and wants a second term, he can win again.  Below are some excerpts.  For the complete article see the link. 

Quote
  Sorry, uncovering America’s racist underbelly wasn’t why Trump won
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/sorry-uncovering-americas-racist-underbelly-wasnt-why-trump-won-commentary.html
9 November 2016  Jake Novak | @jakejakeny 

Millions of Americans, especially those in the Washington establishment, woke up on Wednesday feeling shocked and hurt by the surprise election of Donald Trump to the White House. But like every failure or painful turn in life, it will mean nothing and lead to nothing but hurt feelings unless these wounded Americans learn a real lesson today and become tomorrow's wise. To do that, they must accept and learn the real reason Trump won.

First, they need to ignore the prevailing angry explanations that are all off the mark. The first incorrect reason many of us began hearing well before Election Day was that Trump was being bolstered by overt racists and more nuanced "alt-right" haters who were acting like a springboard after eight years of an African-American in the Oval Office………..

The second reason many people have been using as a crutch against the real reason for Trump's victory is sexism……..

The last wrong explanation for Clinton's loss is one people both on the Left and the Right are making: The Clinton email scandal……..

Nope, the real reasons Trump won have been real in America for at least the last 40 or so years. They are all the same reasons I finally recognized five-plus months ago when I first realized he was headed to victory. It's simple: The largest single economic group in our country has been sold out and ignored by the leaders of both parties for more than a generation. They are the hourly wage-earning Americans who have been bounced around from good manufacturing jobs, to service jobs, to seasonal work without the rest of us noticing that much.   And that's even though there are a lot more of them than the college-educated white collar office workers out there. You know the financial uncertainty you felt last night when you saw the Dow futures crash down by 750 points? That's the kind of emotion millions of your fellow Americans have been feeling every night for years even though they're not "poor" or even necessarily unemployed.

These are the people who have been the acceptable sacrifices for our trade and wage-deflating immigration policies that do boost our economy overall ... just not for them. These are the people who have been scoffed at for not choosing to go to college, even though doing so has become an exercise in playing a game of "economic chicken" with student loans and irrelevant skills.

  And it goes beyond economics. This is a divide that truly began in America during the Vietnam War, which was protested and defended by the rich and upper middle class while the lower middle class and poor actually did the fighting in country.   That divide and the wounds from it have never really healed. I doubt we'll ever see an exit poll this specific, but I'd be willing to bet that Trump won 60 percent plus of the Vietnam veterans' vote because he spoke to their past and current pain in a way actual Vietnam vets like John Kerry and John McCain — guys who actually served in the war — never could…………….

Hillary Clinton and the 16 Republicans who lost to Trump in the primaries failed because they really have thought of this group of people as "deplorables." Clinton was just the unlucky one who got caught saying so…………..   


The election has been beaten to death on here. We are NOT talking about the whys or hows. This is about Trump's inability to govern now. The election is over, thank you dog.

Try arguing why you think Trump won't be impeached post election please.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 10, 2017, 12:53:58 PM
Well, because politicians and the public in general are selective about what constitutes unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behavior based on their partisanship. There will never be a universal consensus about what is considered moral or even ethical because morality is liquid and evolves with the prevailing zeitgeist and differs from beholder to beholder. This is why you have the left displaying moral outrage and the right keeping silent and then 4 or 8 years later the exact opposite. This is the left's time to display their moral outrage despite their silence on similar ethical question prior to this election. This is cognitive dissonance. Is Trump's behavior really any worse than the unethical, immoral and unconstitutional behaviors of his predecessors going back to the founding? I don't think so because there were some really questionable actions in the past. Yet, the only presidents to be formally impeached were Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. The point is if you want Trump's impeachment you will need a majority in the house and senate, not vague allegations and pleading to the public's sense of morality.

So, you have no problem with No. 45 using his power (as the most powerful leader on the planet) to promote his daughter's business interests?

The president is still a member of the public and still human, right? Is it really unethical to tweet your disappointment about something that happened to your family? Is he allowing business interest to hold sway over his office? Your arguments are circumstantial. Do you apply the same standards to past presidents or other elected officials, even the ones you support? The thing is, the left is really digging through the scrap heap to find something to pin on the POTUS so they have a reason to raise impeachment proceedings or probably more realistically a chance in the next election. It seems to me that all other avenues of stopping him from dismantling Obama's legacy are unattainable given the strength of the Republicans in the house and senate, thus all they have left is to promote the idea (with the aid of the willing media), in the hearts and minds of the public that his behavior is so abhorrent that he needs to be removed prior to serving his full term. It smacks of desperation. But if he does something as morally corrupt as Bill did, I will definitely join call for his impeachment.

A simple yes or no would suffice.  Could you answer the question?  And if you don't have a problem with 45's behaviour, please explain why it's okay (in your opinion).

Convince me that his intention was categorically and demonstrably meant to benefit her business interest and not just him showing disappointment at their decision. I might then agree that it could be grounds for impeachment. You should also be realistic and know that's not going to happen under the current balance of power in congress. Presidents don't generally get impeached because of vague ethical quagmires. There has to be substantial evidence of wrong doing to sway congress.

That's all terribly interesting, but again, yes or no is all that's required.  So, if you don't mind?
Read between the lines. Does it seem that I'm bothered by his tweet?

It's a simple question.  Are you incapable of answering?

Perhaps you could also say whether or not Conway's message to "Go buy Ivanka's stuff" on live TV is ok.
Well, I would say that is a bit of a faux pas but I usually don't concern myself with such trivialities that have almost no bearing on my life. It makes for an interesting commute/read. That's it. I'm happy to defer to the wisdom of the judiciary or congress given that i'm not a constitutional expert nor an expert on legal ethics. You can pursue your crusade for impeachment if you like. I'm not stressed. Call me when you got some real dirt on the scumbag.

And I will say this, careful of all these polls you guys are putting your faith in. We would not want you almost moving to the sunny shores of Yellowknife again.

You seem to have a lot to say on such a "triviality".  You are happy to accept whatever situation is thrust upon you and seem to lack the critical thinking skills to develop your own opinion on the matter, to the point of being unable to answer a simple yes/no question.

I'll be able to ignore all your posts in the future as they clearly are devoid of original thought and simply comprise parroting back what you read on your commute.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: DLJL on February 10, 2017, 01:01:54 PM


You seem to have a lot to say on such a "triviality".  You are happy to accept whatever situation is thrust upon you and seem to lack the critical thinking skills to develop your own opinion on the matter, to the point of being unable to answer a simple yes/no question.

I'll be able to ignore all your posts in the future as they clearly are devoid of original thought and simply comprise parroting back what you read on your commute.

He answered your 'yes/no' question like four different times. And also "yes/no" questions to complex topics are dumb in the first place.

I totally agree with him btw. Who gives a ****. There are way more important things to concern yourself with than whether or not Donald Trump's daughter is making money slinging tacky clothes. I imagine the vast majority of people couldn't care less.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: DLJL on February 10, 2017, 01:05:42 PM

Try arguing why you think Trump won't be impeached post election please.

He aint gonna be impeached. Who will vote for impeachment? He's got the entire legislature on Republican lockdown, it's a right wing dream come true. If a woman who knows dick about education can be successfully confirmed education secretary and a guy once deemed too racist to be a judge can be confirmed attorney general - is there anything Trump cant do, at this point?

The only way he'd ever get impeached is if there's a dramatic swing towards the Democrats in the midterms and I don't see that happening. He's already close to starting work on the smallest, cheapest section of his stupid wall presumably so he can take lots of pictures standing next to it right before the midterms and his base cream their pants.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Pecan on February 10, 2017, 01:20:48 PM
He will be our president for a minimum of 8 years.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 10, 2017, 01:29:38 PM
He will be our president for a minimum of 8 years.

Your president.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 10, 2017, 01:31:32 PM

Try arguing why you think Trump won't be impeached post election please.

He aint gonna be impeached. Who will vote for impeachment? He's got the entire legislature on Republican lockdown, it's a right wing dream come true. If a woman who knows dick about education can be successfully confirmed education secretary and a guy once deemed too racist to be a judge can be confirmed attorney general - is there anything Trump cant do, at this point?

The only way he'd ever get impeached is if there's a dramatic swing towards the Democrats in the midterms and I don't see that happening. He's already close to starting work on the smallest, cheapest section of his stupid wall presumably so he can take lots of pictures standing next to it right before the midterms and his base cream their pants.

And no mention of Clinton.

Well played. You are more than likely 100% correct. And yet there is still that small chance.



He will be our president for a minimum of 8 years.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  Wait, what?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 10, 2017, 01:42:35 PM
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 10, 2017, 01:45:15 PM
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

Don't worry, I am sure there are plenty of honest, hard-working, legal Americans willing to shoot up a school, just as they have done in the past.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 10, 2017, 01:47:27 PM
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 10, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?

Nice try!  Everyone knows that was a hoax.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 10, 2017, 02:19:58 PM
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?

Nope, but the next one might be. And if it is, the Dems are going to pay an enormous political price. If you get a school shooting or a Nice type attack and body county, it's over for the Dems at least until 2022.

The thing is that the Dems are putting their reputation into the hands of outside actors (always a bad move) they have no control over and if just one out of 100,000 is a terrorist in disguise (which mathematically, the odds virtually dictate it), then oof...Meanwhile if nothing happens, Trump gets to claim victory "I brought law and order. Made America safe again. Winning." It's a bad all around position for the Democrats.

They could have prevented this by having a superficial split within the party- the liberal Sanders-Warren wing goes hard after Trump on this along with a good chunk of the base. Meanwhile, Durbin, Manchin, and a few others look at ways of strengthening safeguards while trying to push a compromise piece of legislation. That way, you have political cover if an attack takes place.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 10, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
Yes Democrats, Conway just gave you the tools to impeach Donald Trump. I'm sure the country will rally behind an attempt to impeach Trump over that or failing that, just get her fired.

The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered worse than the GOP was during the primaries.

Apparently what Conway did is some great crime (most Americans see something that should get her suspended for a couple weeks or fined at most). The Democrats in a bid to oppose Trump on immigration have all but embraced open borders and open defiance of any immigration laws. Their entire reputation as a party rests on whether or not any of those refugees decides to commit a terrorist act. All it takes is one of them shooting up a school and the Dems are finished for the next two elections. They could have played in smart and had a nucleus of NeverTrumpers while have some voices speak publicly about immigration reform and increasing border and refugee security, but they caved to the Huffpo/Salon wing of the party and now are left claiming essentially that people from Libya, Syria, Sudan, etc. pose no danger.

The women's march was great for the left and was a freak show to middle and right-wing america. The Dems can't win on judges and are left with praying for the good health of Octogenarians Kennedy, Breyer and Ginsburg and the diabetic and overweight Sotomayor.

That kid who shot up Sandy Hook was from which Muslim country?

Nope, but the next one might be. And if it is, the Dems are going to pay an enormous political price. If you get a school shooting or a Nice type attack and body county, it's over for the Dems at least until 2022.

The thing is that the Dems are putting their reputation into the hands of outside actors (always a bad move) they have no control over and if just one out of 100,000 is a terrorist in disguise (which mathematically, the odds virtually dictate it), then oof...Meanwhile if nothing happens, Trump gets to claim victory "I brought law and order. Made America safe again. Winning." It's a bad all around position for the Democrats.

They could have prevented this by having a superficial split within the party- the liberal Sanders-Warren wing goes hard after Trump on this along with a good chunk of the base. Meanwhile, Durbin, Manchin, and a few others look at ways of strengthening safeguards while trying to push a compromise piece of legislation. That way, you have political cover if an attack takes place.

Could you please state the source of the statistics that you used to calculate these odds?

Here are mine.
http://www.lifeinsurancequotes.org/additional-resources/deadly-statistics/

Frankly, it would be utterly stupid for a country of 300 million to fear a single radicalised terrorist getting through (in disguise*) and killing a small handful of people.

* disguised as what?  I am imagining those Groucho glasses.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 10, 2017, 04:23:00 PM
Have there been significant terrorist attacks since 9/11 in the U.S. and Europe? Have they been motivated by terrorist ideology? The Bataclan attacks involved two people from Iraq. They have received training and logistical support from those countries. The countries on the list (except Iran, which I don't think should be on the list) all have governments that are basically destabilized and have spotty records at best. They are also countries which have been racked by sectarian violence.

Now, what percentage are going to either engage in terrorist acts or fund or otherwise support terror? Probably less than 1%. Maybe like 1 in 10,000~100,000. Some rather small number.

But that's not the point. The point is that there probably are at least a handful that are going to have terrorist sympathies and all it takes is one of them shooting up a school or mall and there is going to be a tremendous backlash and political consequences for the Democrats. It's not like guns are hard to get in the U.S. and there are plenty of soft targets. And yes, odds and similar incidents by native born Americans will all show that the level of risk is low, but that won't matter politically, not just to the Trump base, but large swaths of middle America as well. You get 20 dead kids at a school by a Syrian refugee, and you will get 60 seats for the Republicans in the Senate and a 60% majority in the House at least and the Dems will be in a really awkward position.

I don't agree with freaking out over Muslims, but I also think that the Democrats are playing with fire here and if they fail to acknowledge the fact that a terrorist attack might occur, they will pay a terrible political price at the worst possible time.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 10, 2017, 04:27:19 PM
Quote
quote author=thunderlips
The election has been beaten to death on here. We are NOT talking about the whys or hows. This is about Trump's inability to govern now. The election is over, thank you dog.

Try arguing why you think Trump won't be impeached post election please.                             

Besides responding to another person’s comments, that’s exactly what I have done; however, just like the election you won’t accept the real reasons.  In summary:

1.  After how badly the elitist media got burned on election day, because they did not actually report on the campaign, to keep drinking their Kool-Aid and stating things like “Trump’s inability to govern" will not lead to impeachment, but to a second term; if he wants one.  Many of us like the way he is governing.

2.  Trump does have strong support, and this support is not diminishing.  People like that he is doing what he said he would do.

3.  Following through is Trump’s key to success.  As long as he keeps the Democrats and elitist media running around screaming impeachment and that the world is ending, and not really focusing on the issues and how to build a coalition to win 270 electoral votes, Trump has the advantage.

For the technically oriented people, remember that impeachment has to start in the House of Representatives.  Furthermore, an anti-Trump elitist media article does not constitute grounds for impeachment.  In addition, the Republicans control the House and will control it to at least 2020 when redistricting takes place.  It would be suicidal for the Republican House of Representatives to vote for impeachment (they would lose the House in 2018 or 2020). 

Read up on what it actually took to get to the point where Nixon resigned, and all that first had to happen.  In addition, many believe that if Nixon had just burned the tapes that impeachment would not have been possible, and that he would have finished his second term.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

To date, no U.S. President has been removed from office by impeachment and conviction.

At the federal level, Article II of the United States Constitution states in Section 4 that "The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors." The House of Representatives has the sole power of impeaching, while the United States Senate has the sole power to try all impeachments.
                               
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on February 10, 2017, 07:36:14 PM
I still do not know how possible it is to answer this question.  I can't see how you can call for impeachment when the basis has, as far as I have seen, been established.  What are "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

Even during moves to impeach and convict former Presidents, the grounds for "high crimes and misdemeanors" have been defined by bad faith arguments at best.  The Radicals did not like Andrew Johnson (and who can blame them), while Nixon did far worse than what he was actually was impeached for and would have been convicted for had he not resigned.  I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe that Republicans genuinely believed that Clinton's sexual escapades and subsequent perjury constituted an impeachable offense. 

The Trump administration has been appalling, but in the past impeachment proceedings have been guided by political animosities, not by some profound respect for the law.   Speculation just for the hell of it:  I could see Trump being impeached if he pissed off people with access to the point where they were much more open to leaking damaging documents or his popularity fell to historical lows (even Nixon still had favorability ratings of about 1/4 of the population at the end of his term). 

Instead of looking at impeachment, maybe it would be better to create an effective opposition?  With very little exception, the Democrats do not seem to be capable of that.  It would be nice if there could be more viable political parties in the States.  The Democratic strategy still seems to be similar to the strategy Clinton used during her campaign, red-baiting, etc.

Unless someone can convincingly define what "crimes and misdemeanors" are and explain why impeachment is not an inherently political process, I think it is just as well to look at pictures of fish. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 13, 2017, 05:26:50 AM
I still do not know how possible it is to answer this question.  I can't see how you can call for impeachment when the basis has, as far as I have seen, been established.  What are "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

Unless someone can convincingly define what "crimes and misdemeanors" are and explain why impeachment is not an inherently political process, I think it is just as well to look at pictures of fish.

As much as I too am a fan of red herrings, I'm nonetheless interested in why you've focused on "crimes and misdemeanors" to the exclusion of 'treason and bribery' as stated in Article II Section 4?

That said, rather than 'calling for his impeachment', some of us are more interested in speculating as to when or whether that call will come. At the moment though it would appear that there are several fertile areas for further investigation.

As a side note, it's a shame that mental competence isn't a valid grounding for impeachment. Donald's constant battle with reality would well fulfil that requirement. (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/andrew-sullivan-the-madness-of-king-donald.html)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on February 13, 2017, 09:36:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYNN87txLWQ

Watch that starting at 47:18. Interesting bit about Putin in there.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 13, 2017, 10:44:28 AM
It was evident leading up to the election that Trump and his supporters have little to no concern for democratic principles like the rule of law and separation of powers, let alone truth and objectivity.  It looks as though Trump may provide this democratic experiment with its ultimate stress test thus far. The scary part is there are no guarantees that the constitution will stand up to this test which probably wouldn't concern Trump supporters either.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: insulimted on February 13, 2017, 10:53:57 AM
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased it’s pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.     
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 13, 2017, 11:08:25 AM
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased it’s pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.   

Sean Spicer! Is that you?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on February 13, 2017, 01:26:09 PM
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased it’s pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.   

SJW detected.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: HyooMyron on February 13, 2017, 02:43:42 PM
In eight years no one every started an impeach Obama thread? Or was it disappeared? This site is so biased it’s pathetic. Remember how the whole Trump phenomenon started with pages and pages of people saying terrible things about Trump and his supporters, but once people started saying positive things about Trump it got deleted? And then new threads about Trump were also deleted? Why do you people behave in this way? You create your own echo chambers. Noise builds on noise, escalating till it drowns out what little original thought you had. This thread is absurd.   

I hate being on the #loltrumpisdumb train, but people generally agree on something that is logical. People hating Trump for constantly doing stupid things is just the logical progression. Being wary of the man is natural. It's not so much an echochamber, but stating facts lol. We aren't just going to ignore the guy

But yeah, mods deleting positive things about Trump was creepy and pathetic. There was absolutely no excuse for deleting threads/comments just because some people actually like the man. In that way, I suppose you could say there was an echochamber (an artificial one at that).

Which sucks, because it just gives people like you a leg to stand on. It gives the slightest credibility to the nonsense you spout. But I suppose that's what happens when thin-skinned people abuse their power  :sad:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 13, 2017, 03:15:17 PM
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.  They're pretty useless in general, but being actively useless is worse.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 13, 2017, 05:00:06 PM
But yeah, mods deleting positive things about Trump was creepy and pathetic.
It works.

Just more evidence that liberal fascism is woven all through the system; the university, the media, corporations, web site owners. Promote "stuff liberals say" because that's morally right, delete "stuff conservatives say" because they are evil. People are waking up to it, free speech enforcement is coming...frantically delete while you can fascists.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 13, 2017, 05:17:17 PM
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.  They're pretty useless in general, but being actively useless is worse.

Fake news, I suspect!.
Trump supporters live on the stuff along with Imagined conspiracies and alternative facts. Just read his Tweets. Pure fantasy mostly. Sad!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 13, 2017, 05:24:48 PM
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.

Fake news, I suspect!.

Probably someone said Pocahontas, tee hee hee...

Because that is "hate speech" you know...
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 13, 2017, 07:37:49 PM
I did not know the mods had deleted Trump threads.

Fake news, I suspect!.

Probably someone said Pocahontas, tee hee hee...

Because that is "hate speech" you know...

So the Democrats can refer to Trump as a Nazi since his father emigrated from there. If you're not offended by people being reduced to offensive stereotypes then I guess Fuhrer Trump is your man.

#SCROTUS
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 13, 2017, 08:52:02 PM
If you're not offended by people being reduced to offensive stereotypes then I guess Fuhrer Trump is your man.

Oh I'm offended by the creepy liberal corporatists, they are the real nazis.

Anyhow, Warren is done in politics. That was a very rehearsed move by Trump, no doubt him and Bannon worked on that for awhile. It points out how absurd the tyranny of the minority has become, white people actually faking minority status to get equal rights back, while also using a word that fights political correctness, while also baiting the libs/media to meltdown.

Sun Tzu, 99th degree black belt, ninja chop 3x damage.  8)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on February 13, 2017, 09:25:48 PM
I still do not know how possible it is to answer this question.  I can't see how you can call for impeachment when the basis has, as far as I have seen, been established.  What are "high crimes and misdemeanors"?

Unless someone can convincingly define what "crimes and misdemeanors" are and explain why impeachment is not an inherently political process, I think it is just as well to look at pictures of fish.

As much as I too am a fan of red herrings, I'm nonetheless interested in why you've focused on "crimes and misdemeanors" to the exclusion of 'treason and bribery' as stated in Article II Section 4?

That said, rather than 'calling for his impeachment', some of us are more interested in speculating as to when or whether that call will come. At the moment though it would appear that there are several fertile areas for further investigation.

As a side note, it's a shame that mental competence isn't a valid grounding for impeachment. Donald's constant battle with reality would well fulfil that requirement. (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/andrew-sullivan-the-madness-of-king-donald.html)

Fair enough about interest in speculating whether or not the call for impeachment has come.

I can see why people are speculating about the impeachment of Trump since there has never been a President who has acted like he has. 

As far as treason and bribery as grounds for impeachment, where is the evidence of treason or bribery?  Despite all the talk, we still have not even seen concrete evidence that Russia was involved in the US election, something that would not at all be surprising, but should not be believed based on intelligence agencies who spread disinformation.  Even that doesn't indicate the Donald is working with Russia in a treasonous manner or anything like it.  Bribery?  How does bribery factor into this?  Yes, Devos got her seat by giving lots of donations, but that's just business as usual.

The Donald may be a disgusting, delusional, narcissistic, ethically compromised individual, but I fail to see what he has does that is an impeachable offense at this point. I am asking what the grounds for impeachment would be since it has been brought up to clarify what the basis would be. 

Also, why is Donald getting away with all of this?  Most Congressional Republicans went from distancing themselves from him to following the agenda he is promoting.  At the top leadership positions, except from a few exceptions like Sanders, the Democrats seem in denial about why they have failed and are continuing to fail.  It's not just The Donald doing this.  He has enablers, enablers who I am sure will turn away from him if he becomes unpopular.

 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 13, 2017, 09:34:55 PM
The people who lost A) want him to be impeached, and so B) they go looking for reasons for that. There's nothing legit about it, they are desperate and will make up anything.

Remember libs, you and your NY/LA corporate brainwashing network won't be taking back anything...decades of red control coming. Just move to Canada. But Canada won't have you because they are busy prioritizing random refugees.  :laugh:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/2016_Presidential_Election_by_County.svg/990px-2016_Presidential_Election_by_County.svg.png)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on February 14, 2017, 12:25:26 AM
Quote
A senior White House adviser on Sunday denounced federal judges who have stood in the way of Donald Trump’s controversial travel ban, warning that “the whole world will soon see” that the president’s executive powers “will not be questioned”.

We have a judiciary that has taken far too much power and become in many cases a supreme branch of government,” said Stephen Miller, a senior adviser to Trump on immigration issues, appearing on the CBS program Face the Nation.

“Our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/12/trump-administration-considering-narrower-travel-ban

Is it just me or is this just unbelievably dangerous thinking?  The judiciary is there to rule on the legality of possible laws and to add a common sense thinking to them.  What you don't want is somebody as unhinged as Trump 'having the powers to protect our country' in anyway Bannon Trump thinks he can.  These daily 'look at the size of my balls' appearances from Trump and his advisors are ridiculous.

Let's just hope it's a consequence of the fact that several media outlets wouldn't have Kelly-Anne Conjob on their programs for a few days because of her credibility issues so the administration had to wheel out their next hack, Stephen Miller, who is obviously still wet behind the ears.

(http://2d0yaz2jiom3c6vy7e7e5svk.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/nbc_mtp_miller_170212a-410x220.jpg)

 This! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHusZDjesr4)

Perhaps SNL will have some fun with him next weekend.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 14, 2017, 03:26:17 PM
In like Flynn... or in this case out.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 14, 2017, 08:09:31 PM
Liberal's brains are going to melt down, they are the ones who won't last eights years.  :laugh:

There is crushing force coming at them from all sides, Trump will break them. Snap!
Title: Piss-gate ain't over just yet!
Post by: Adel on February 15, 2017, 02:14:46 AM


Guy lied to Pence and was held accountable. Sounds like a breath of fresh air to me.



The administration knew about Flyn's conversations 3 weeks ago when it was warned by the state department. The question that remains is whether Trump was also aware of these conversations and WTF is the extent of the Russian connection with Trump and his campaign. Let's not forget, only yesterday morning Kelly-Anne Con-job was telling us that Trump still had full confidence in Flynn. As much as the Trump cult will try to deflect to Clinton/Obama/whatever,  some Republican members of congress  (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/14/democrats-russia-trump-investigation-michael-flynn)are also interested in these questions so I wouldn't expect Flyn's resignation to end it.

All this in just three weeks. It must've been one hell of a shower!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 15, 2017, 08:14:55 PM
Why is everyone on the internets talking about Flynn, who cares? I didn't even know who he was, now some dude I didn't know about isn't there, shrug...
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 15, 2017, 11:04:47 PM
Why is everyone on the internets talking about Flynn, who cares? I didn't even know who he was, now some dude I didn't know about isn't there, shrug...

Yeah who cares  :rolleyes: :huh:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515358124/reports-u-s-intercepted-calls-between-trump-campaign-staff-and-russian-intellige

I can't believe Republicans have no problem with Turnip's ties to Russia.

This administration will go down as the most subversive in modern US history.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 15, 2017, 11:13:25 PM
Oh I see, yet more leaks from the incompetent intelligence agencies. Time to make it known that leaks are treason and automatically punishable by death. See who leaks then? Bet it gets real quiet.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on February 15, 2017, 11:50:40 PM
I can't believe Republicans have no problem with Turnip's ties to Russia.

why should they?

The cold war ended 26 years ago, dimbulb.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 16, 2017, 12:13:49 AM
Oh I see, yet more leaks from the incompetent intelligence agencies. Time to make it known that leaks are treason and automatically punishable by death. See who leaks then? Bet it gets real quiet.

(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/58a358c53149a166008b6d57-1224)

If the intelligence agencies are incompetent, what does that make Turnip?

Treason against a tyrant is acceptable. Leaks have been used throughout our nation's history to get to the truth of the matter.

http://ww2.kqed.org/lowdown/2013/08/01/ten-of-the-most-influential-government-leaks-in-u-s-history/

Iran-Contra  (CIA cocaine)
Pentagon Papers (Bombing SE Asia)
Watergate (Trump's role model)
Snowden

Treason- the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

"Even though Flynn is out, Democrats and critics are calling for investigations and question whether he violated the Logan Act, a law dating back to 1799, which prohibits unauthorized individuals from communicating with foreign governments."

I'm sorry you were saying...
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on February 16, 2017, 01:39:23 AM
If the intelligence agencies are incompetent, what does that make Turnip?

they're not incompetent, they're just corrupt.

They're a tool of the globalist elite new world order agenda. Closely allied to the security-military complex, the neocons in government, the agribusinesses, the oligarchs with their plans for world domination via US hegemony.

Until you grasp this basic fact, nothing in politics will make sense.

Really, dunderlips. The way you parrot your media programming like a hapless dupe makes you look beyond pathetic.

If you automatically believe everything the cia says you are a gull of the highest order.


I suggest some basic reading:

Quote
The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government Hardcover  – October 13, 2015

by David Talbot
https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government/dp/0062276166/ref=pd_sim_14_34?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=416NAVNC9JZMSFGQ07AB (https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government/dp/0062276166/ref=pd_sim_14_34?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=416NAVNC9JZMSFGQ07AB)

Quote
In Search of Enemies: A CIA Story Paperback  – March 17, 1984

by John Stockwell
https://www.amazon.com/Search-Enemies-CIA-Story/dp/0393009262/ref=pd_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NZ69E42YAA5RTSM3HPFF (https://www.amazon.com/Search-Enemies-CIA-Story/dp/0393009262/ref=pd_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NZ69E42YAA5RTSM3HPFF)

Quote
Inside the Company: CIA Diary Hardcover  – July, 1975

by Philip Agee
https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Company-Diary-Philip-Agee/dp/0883730286 (https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Company-Diary-Philip-Agee/dp/0883730286)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 16, 2017, 07:00:47 AM
Treason against a tyrant is acceptable.

Liberal logic.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Make up a straw man, have the media you own tell yourself what you want to hear, commit crimes.
Title: Re: Piss-gate ain't over just yet!
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 16, 2017, 01:00:36 PM


Guy lied to Pence and was held accountable. Sounds like a breath of fresh air to me.



The administration knew about Flyn's conversations 3 weeks ago when it was warned by the state department. The question that remains is whether Trump was also aware of these conversations and WTF is the extent of the Russian connection with Trump and his campaign. Let's not forget, only yesterday morning Kelly-Anne Con-job was telling us that Trump still had full confidence in Flynn. As much as the Trump cult will try to deflect to Clinton/Obama/whatever,  some Republican members of congress  (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/14/democrats-russia-trump-investigation-michael-flynn)are also interested in these questions so I wouldn't expect Flyn's resignation to end it.

All this in just three weeks. It must've been one hell of a shower!

You do realize that Obama has apparently had this info since, what, July? He chose to do nothing with it.

Did it ever occur to you that it might be possible that there was nothing criminal and there wasn't any collusion? Just basic talks about broad vision that are the normal range of talks that people of two different countries have. I think Obama also probably had the foresight to know that if this gets turned into a thing, it will A) Come back to bite the Dems down the line when circumstances change and B) That raising a stink over even the most basic of contact, between non-government higher-ups and party nominees with other countries, will ultimately hurt diplomacy in the long run.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 16, 2017, 01:35:31 PM
You guys are enablers.

Malfeasance through ignorance isn't a solid defense.

I try leaks and whistle blowers more than any politician.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 16, 2017, 01:40:15 PM
You guys are enablers.

Malfeasance through ignorance isn't a solid defense.

I try leaks and whistle blowers more than any politician.

By that logic you're an enabler of the military-industrial complex, subversive actions in 3rd world countries, drone strikes, and an intelligence community that is involved in clandestine grey and black ops around the world.

If the intelligence community has serious problems with Trump and evidence to back it up, they need to present it to the public in an open manner that lets the rule of law handle it, not shadowy leaks that lead to media innuendo.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 16, 2017, 01:50:47 PM
Hard to investigate when the Republicans refuse to open an investigation.

This is what I don't understand, both parties are willing to sacrifice their reputations along party lines. By not investigating they are allowing for gross negligence to occur.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 16, 2017, 02:41:03 PM
I have no idea what Flynn talked about with the Russians…..  Maybe they were making plans to do shots of Beluga together……  However, I do know that because of their obsession to destroy Trump that the elitist media wants everyone to believe that Trump just plucked this guy from a Russian cabbage patch; when it was actually Obama who honed Flynn’s national security credentials to become a National Security Advisor. 

1.  In 2011, Obama promoted Flynn to the rank of lieutenant general.   Flag officers require presidential approval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_T._Flynn

2. In 2012, Obama nominated - and the Senate confirmed - Flynn to become the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Quote
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/96-press-releases-2012/525-nomination-of-lt-gen-flynn-as-dia-director-and-maj-gen-nicholas-as-assistant-dni-for-partner-engagement

Office of the Director of National Intelligence
Nomination of Lt. Gen. Flynn as DIA director and Maj. Gen. Nicholas as assistant DNI for partner engagement

April 17, 2012

Today, President Obama nominated two outstanding military officers to serve in key positions in the Intelligence Community. On behalf of the entire Intelligence Community, I congratulate them on their nominations.

Army Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn has been nominated for reappointment to the rank of lieutenant general and reassignment as the next director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Lt. Gen. Flynn is currently serving as the ODNI’s assistant director of national intelligence for partner engagement……….

These two outstanding military leaders and intelligence professionals have the skill and dedication necessary to continue to transform the Intelligence Community. Upon their confirmation by the Senate, I look forward to working with Lt. Gen. Flynn and Maj. Gen. Nicholas on our nation’s most challenging intelligence issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_Defense_Intelligence_Agency

The Director of the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency is a three-star general or admiral who, upon nomination by the President and confirmation by the Senate, serves as the nation's highest-ranking military intelligence officer. He is the primary intelligence adviser to the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff                         

Basically, I have found two stories on why he left the position of Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.  You can conduct your own research.  I’ll encapsulate the two stories as follows:

1. He was forced out because of a “chaotic” management style.
2. He was forced out because he kept challenging Obama’s Syria and Islamic terrorism policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_T._Flynn


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on February 16, 2017, 02:45:35 PM
Hard to investigate when the Republicans refuse to open an investigation.

This is what I don't understand, both parties are willing to sacrifice their reputations along party lines. By not investigating they are allowing for gross negligence to occur.

Maybe they are not investigating because both parties know this isn't going to go anywhere and is just a smear campaign. Did that ever occur to you?

The fact is that going to hard on this issue sets a bad precedent for all future presidential campaigns and incoming administrations. Party nominees and the incoming administrations for President-elects, regardless of party, need to have these sort of general discussion calls for purposes of diplomacy and making campaign promises and such. Diplomacy thrives on informal chats between countries, often involving aides or backchannels. If we didn't have these kinds of conversations and exchanges and relationship building during the Cold War, the U.S. and U.S.S.R. would have likely gone to war with each other. As Churchill put it- "To Jaw-Jaw is better than to War-War."

Now when the next time the Dems win, the Republicans are going to use the Flynn Precedent to savage their officials. It makes the U.S. more isolated and constrains diplomacy.

But hey, why worry about that? The important thing is that Trump is LITERALLY HITLER and thus any action is justified. After all, nothing says LITERALLY HITLER and NAZIS!!! like holding a joint press conference with Bibi Netanyahu.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 16, 2017, 02:54:53 PM
Yeah, all this "opening of investigations" is stupid.

The problem is the American two party system just argues about everything forever and can never get anything done...meanwhile the ship sinks. This is why the mob voted Trump, they want an authoritarian leader to bring order.

If the US doesn't pull it together they literally are going to get Hitler next.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 16, 2017, 04:43:50 PM
This article is well written and worth reading about the Flynn event.  Furthermore, it is correctly classified as an opinion piece, and not a news story.

Is this the path that the U.S. really wants to blaze?  Because once this type of bureaucratic fait accompli is cheered and accepted by many, it will be done again, and again, and again.  Furthermore, next time it may be against the people who are now cheering.  It should not be bureaucrats deciding who should be President. 

Just because one side will not accept the election results……
 
A few excerpts from the piece:

Quote
America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.
Damon Linker – February 14, 2017

http://theweek.com/articles/680068/americas-spies-anonymously-took-down-michael-flynn-that-deeply-worrying

The United States is much better off without Michael Flynn serving as national security adviser. But no one should be cheering the way he was brought down.

The whole episode is evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency. Flynn's ouster was a soft coup (or political assassination) engineered by anonymous intelligence community bureaucrats. The results might be salutary, but this isn't the way a liberal democracy is supposed to function. 

…….Far too many Trump critics appear not to care that these intelligence agents leaked highly sensitive information to the press — mostly because Trump critics are pleased with the result. "Finally," they say, "someone took a stand to expose collusion between the Russians and a senior aide to the president!" It is indeed important that someone took such a stand. But it matters greatly who that someone is and how they take their stand. Members of the unelected, unaccountable intelligence community are not the right someone, especially when they target a senior aide to the president by leaking anonymously to newspapers the content of classified phone intercepts, where the unverified, unsubstantiated information can inflict politically fatal damage almost instantaneously.

……These leaks are an enormous problem. And in a less polarized context, they would be recognized immediately for what they clearly are: an effort to manipulate public opinion for the sake of achieving a desired political outcome. It's weaponized spin.

This doesn't mean the outcome was wrong. I have no interest in defending Flynn, who appears to be an atrocious manager prone to favoring absurd conspiracy theories over more traditional forms of intelligence…….

But no matter what Flynn did, it is simply not the role of the deep state to target a man working in one of the political branches of the government by dishing to reporters about information it has gathered clandestinely. It is the role of elected members of Congress to conduct public investigations of alleged wrongdoing by public officials………

In a liberal democracy, how things happen is often as important as what happens……..

Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump……… 

Down that path lies the end of democracy in America.                             
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 16, 2017, 06:45:19 PM
This article is well written and worth reading about the Flynn event.  Furthermore, it is correctly classified as an opinion piece, and not a news story.

Is this the path that the U.S. really wants to blaze?  Because once this type of bureaucratic fait accompli is cheered and accepted by many, it will be done again, and again, and again.  Furthermore, next time it may be against the people who are now cheering.  It should not be bureaucrats deciding who should be President. 

Just because one side will not accept the election results……
 

I disagree.  It has nothing to do with not accepting the election results.  Trump is a bona fide imbecile.  Now he is president of the USA, the most powerful country on the planet.  Giving the position of president to that man is literally like giving matches to a toddler.  Anyone with any sense (and any control) will be doing whatever they can to stop him hurting himself and others.  He should get to play at being president, but not to do as he pleases with the power he has, er, acquired.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 16, 2017, 07:11:35 PM
I disagree.  It has nothing to do with not accepting the election results. 

So in other words you don't accept the election results.

Trump is a bona fide imbecile. 

The voters think libtards are bona fide imbeciles.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: waygookkorea on February 16, 2017, 07:48:30 PM
This article is well written and worth reading about the Flynn event.  Furthermore, it is correctly classified as an opinion piece, and not a news story.

Is this the path that the U.S. really wants to blaze?  Because once this type of bureaucratic fait accompli is cheered and accepted by many, it will be done again, and again, and again.  Furthermore, next time it may be against the people who are now cheering.  It should not be bureaucrats deciding who should be President. 

Just because one side will not accept the election results……
 

I disagree.  It has nothing to do with not accepting the election results.  Trump is a bona fide imbecile.  Now he is president of the USA, the most powerful country on the planet.  Giving the position of president to that man is literally like giving matches to a toddler.  Anyone with any sense (and any control) will be doing whatever they can to stop him hurting himself and others.  He should get to play at being president, but not to do as he pleases with the power he has, er, acquired.

I'm just wondering... why does everyone think Trump is stupid? I mean, he is certainly not a scientist but he is obviously rather clever in certain ways. The guy (and his team) have made some brilliant strategic moves. The stupid red hats with the slogan, drain the swamp, the poles are rigged, turning the fake news angle against the media... the reality is the Trump team has performed impressively in a strategic sense. They have turned the atmosphere of the country into Trump vs. Establishment and sooooo many people are forced to support Trump regardless of his actions. No one really knows what his administration is doing because all the focus is on his battle with the media and Russia conspiracies. This could be a recipe for disaster because a large chunk of the country will support him 110% no matter what just to give the finger to what they view as a corrupt system. If things keep going this way he will absolutely win a 2nd term because as long as the world doesn't end the anti-Trump people will look ridiculous from all this panic and fear mongering.

If the media really wanted him to lose the next election they should be his cheerleading squad and let independent media go after him. That would turn him into the villain they want him to be but right now they are making him a hero to many.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on February 16, 2017, 07:52:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqCJfUKlls
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 16, 2017, 08:38:02 PM
Quote
waygookkorea link=topic=104010.msg685844#msg685844 date=1487245710]

I'm just wondering... why does everyone think Trump is stupid? I mean, he is certainly not a scientist but he is obviously rather clever in certain ways. The guy (and his team) have made some brilliant strategic moves. The stupid red hats with the slogan, drain the swamp, the poles are rigged, turning the fake news angle against the media... the reality is the Trump team has performed impressively in a strategic sense. They have turned the atmosphere of the country into Trump vs. Establishment and sooooo many people are forced to support Trump regardless of his actions. No one really knows what his administration is doing because all the focus is on his battle with the media and Russia conspiracies. This could be a recipe for disaster because a large chunk of the country will support him 110% no matter what just to give the finger to what they view as a corrupt system. If things keep going this way he will absolutely win a 2nd term because as long as the world doesn't end the anti-Trump people will look ridiculous from all this panic and fear mongering.

If the media really wanted him to lose the next election they should be his cheerleading squad and let independent media go after him. That would turn him into the villain they want him to be but right now they are making him a hero to many.
             

I agree with most of what you said. 

The Democrats thought the same about Reagan; that he was just a dumb actor.  Reagan kicked their butts in two elections.  It keeps going back to the fact that the elitists either can’t understand, or just won’t accept, the real reasons that Trump won.    If they don’t understand why Trump won, they will never understand why he won’t be impeached, or why he will win a second term.   There’s also the elitist problem of not liking to be told no, and the election told them no…..

First, I’m not talking about what happened in 1974, but how to win Presidential elections.  As I said before, Nixon barely won in 1968.  After 68 the country was ready for a little tranquility but the Left would not relent.  I know because my older sister had a helmet and her own gas mask at Stanford.  She and the Left kept saying that Nixon was the most horrible President ever, that the majority of people supported what the left was doing, and the massive protests, demonstrations, occupations and even deaths continued (Kent State).  Nixon had his silent majority.  In 1972, Nixon carried 49 States and won 60% of the popular vote.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority

The silent majority is an unspecified large group of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly…

Nixon's silent majority referred mainly to the older generation (those World War II veterans in all parts of the U.S.) but it also described many young people in the Midwest, West and in the South, many of whom eventually served in Vietnam. The Silent Majority was mostly populated by blue collar white people who did not take an active part in politics; suburban, exurban and rural middle class voters.  They did, in some cases, support the conservative policies of many politicians. Others were not particularly conservative politically, but resented what they saw as disrespect for American institutions.              
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 16, 2017, 08:57:17 PM
I'm just wondering... why does everyone think Trump is stupid? I mean, he is certainly not a scientist but he is obviously rather clever in certain ways. The guy (and his team) have made some brilliant strategic moves. The stupid red hats with the slogan, drain the swamp, the poles are rigged, turning the fake news angle against the media... the reality is the Trump team has performed impressively in a strategic sense.

Reposted!

Yeah, anyone who thinks Team Trump is dumb, is the one getting played. What's really amazing is these guys didn't just win game1, they set up a long-term win many moves out. There are so many traps already set, the dems simply don't see (arrogance is blind?).

All dems can really do is "be outraged" and lose again. Really they need to move to the right themselves, everyone is sick of their identity politics. Trump is more in touch with what normal people actually want, but were afraid to say because of liberal fascism.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: slycordinator on February 16, 2017, 09:08:57 PM
All dems can really do is "be outraged" and lose again.
To be fair, they've won two of the last three presidential elections and won majorities in Congress during the time. This time they lost big, but it's hardly hardly the same as them "losing again and again."

I agree with the general sentiment that they completely missed the boat on this election, more or less coasting on the idea that he's a joke and can't possibly win, but that's different.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 16, 2017, 09:30:14 PM
To be fair, they've won two of the last three presidential elections and won majorities in Congress during the time.

Sure, I get this view. But I think something very different is happening in the socioeconomic cycle, which is that this run of liberalism since the 60s is simply over. Dems seriously have nothing they can run on for the next 30yrs, because everything liberal has already been achieved. Life is going to get harder for Americans and things tend to move to conservatism during those times.

Bannon is rapidly moving to prepare the country for a 50yr conservatism cycle; changing universities and media. In just 4yrs it will be a different country, these guys are moving fast.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 17, 2017, 08:13:03 AM
To be fair, they've won two of the last three presidential elections and won majorities in Congress during the time.

Sure, I get this view. But I think something very different is happening in the socioeconomic cycle, which is that this run of liberalism since the 60s is simply over. Dems seriously have nothing they can run on for the next 30yrs, because everything liberal has already been achieved. Life is going to get harder for Americans and things tend to move to conservatism during those times.

Bannon is rapidly moving to prepare the country for a 50yr conservatism cycle; changing universities and media. In just 4yrs it will be a different country, these guys are moving fast.

Ah, you mean Real President Bannon, and his plans to precipitate the new saeculum.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 17, 2017, 08:31:28 AM
Trump may be sly, but overly intelligent? Just look at his off-script speeches. Sixth grade grammar.
 https://youtu.be/7UIE_MRAhEA (https://youtu.be/7UIE_MRAhEA)

Why cant he find qualified members to fill his cabinet, (not the ones awaiting confirmation)?

 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/robert-harward-turns-down-national-security-adviser-job/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/us/politics/andrew-puzder-withdrew-labor-secretary.html

I would bet the farm there will always be an opening in his administration.

Here is another liberal elitist propaganda piece outlining Trump's disarray:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21717066-furore-over-americas-national-security-adviser-axing-michael-flynn-reveals-deep
Quote
Mr Trump has so far nominated 35 people to fill some 700 senior positions that require Senate confirmation. On February 15th one of them, Andrew Puzder, his chosen labour secretary, withdrew his nomination after it became clear he would struggle to get confirmed. This poor progress is making it even harder for Mr Mattis and his cabinet colleagues, including Rex Tillerson, the secretary of state, to push back against the turmoil emanating from the White House.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 17, 2017, 08:44:08 AM
Just look at his off-script speeches. Sixth grade grammar.

Trump's speeches are brilliant. He plays straight man, never smiles in an hour, yet super funny. Alpha male conservative comedian (we need to make up a name for this style). I'm seriously falling out of my chair laughing at some of his lines this morning.

The American people agree, he's going to be huuuge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL3yF9wYR3U
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on February 17, 2017, 09:02:50 AM
Trump is in big trouble. He is at war with the deep state, and his support from congressional Republicans is paper thin. Due to his clear violations of the emoluments clause, and of course possible ties to the interests of a foreign power, he is eligible for impeachment any time congress decides to pull the plug.

It's delicate of course this early into his mandate, having won a federal election. But his approval rating, and even his crushing loss in the popular vote means that eventually Republicans will have to decide if supporting Trump helps or hinders their eventual re-election campaign/future ambitions.

I don't think Trump will see out his term -- he might not even see out half of it. But with the American system, that just means several years of President Pence -- who will be far more effective at getting right-wing policies actually implemented, and stand a far better chance at winning in 2020 should he stand.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on February 17, 2017, 09:05:36 AM
Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/he-will-die-in-jail-intelligence-community-ready-to-go-nuclear-on-trump-senior-source-says/#.WKT5UJHHM0w.facebook

‘He will die in jail’: Intelligence community ready to ‘go nuclear’ on Trump, senior source says
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on February 17, 2017, 09:18:04 AM
Today/yesterday FOX News' Shep Smith teed off on Trump's disingenuous attacks on the media for simply asking him clearly relevant and important questions.

If FOX is turning, Trump is in even bigger trouble than I thought.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 17, 2017, 10:40:37 AM
^ Hehe, you guys are so weak and worried about every detail.

This is war, lying scum everywhere, means war everywhere. Dude is doing what he was hired to do. America loves it. If you make a move on Amercia's guy, the country basically collapses, failed state, civil war.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 17, 2017, 02:00:50 PM
http://citizentherapists.com/manifesto/

Quote
We must speak out for the well-being of our democracy, which is both a way of living and acting together and a set of political institutions. Therapists have taken for granted how our work relies on a democratic tradition that gives people a sense of personal agency to create new narratives and take personal and collective responsibility for themselves, their families, and their communities. Reliance on a Strong Man who will solve our problems and deal with internal and external enemies is a direct threat to the democratic basis of psychotherapy. Therapy only flourishes on democratic soil.

Again I am not disputing Trump won the election. I am questioning his ability to govern.

His latest "interview" was ludicrous. Still focusing on Clinton and ratings. Absolutely refusing to acknowledge facts and completely bullying his way through his talking points.


Flynn may be lucky to get out now.
 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 17, 2017, 02:17:54 PM
^ Hehe, you guys are so weak and worried about every detail.

This is war, lying scum everywhere, means war everywhere. Dude is doing what he was hired to do. America loves it. If you make a move on Amercia's guy, the country basically collapses, failed state, civil war.

Sounds serious! Maybe, you should tweet about it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 17, 2017, 02:30:41 PM
^ Hehe, you guys are so weak and worried about every detail.

This is war, lying scum everywhere, means war everywhere. Dude is doing what he was hired to do. America loves it. If you make a move on Amercia's guy, the country basically collapses, failed state, civil war.

Sounds serious! Maybe, you should tweet about it.

He's just Ptrolling.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 17, 2017, 03:02:54 PM
He's just Ptrolling.

HA! You finally got a funny in.  :smiley:

I can't stop laughing, went back and watched Trump's most brilliant moments. He tells Poindexter to sit down, then "QUIET, QUIET, QUIET CHILDREN!". Hehe, so fun and fresh. Libs just show they have no sense of humor, such fragile scared little people. Sad.  :cry:

https://youtu.be/jL3yF9wYR3U?t=1h4m40s
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on February 17, 2017, 03:10:37 PM
Trump is in big trouble. He is at war with the deep state, and his support from congressional Republicans is paper thin. Due to his clear violations of the emoluments clause, and of course possible ties to the interests of a foreign power, he is eligible for impeachment any time congress decides to pull the plug

If the deep state and congress want to overturn the democratic will of the people then someone should be at war them surely?

You guys throw democracy out the window the moment it produces a result you don't like.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 17, 2017, 03:14:34 PM
He's just Ptrolling.

HA! You finally got a funny in.  :smiley:

I can't stop laughing, went back and watched Trump's most brilliant moments. He tells Poindexter to sit down, then "QUIET, QUIET, QUIET CHILDREN!". Hehe, so fun and fresh. Libs just show they have no sense of humor, such fragile scared little people. Sad.  :cry:

https://youtu.be/jL3yF9wYR3U?t=1h4m40s

Should have just mocked another disabled person. He kills at those sort of impressions.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on February 17, 2017, 03:38:55 PM
Trump may be sly, but overly intelligent? Just look at his off-script speeches. Sixth grade grammar.
 https://youtu.be/7UIE_MRAhEA (https://youtu.be/7UIE_MRAhEA)

Why cant he find qualified members to fill his cabinet, (not the ones awaiting confirmation)?

 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/robert-harward-turns-down-national-security-adviser-job/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/us/politics/andrew-puzder-withdrew-labor-secretary.html

I would bet the farm there will always be an opening in his administration.

Here is another liberal elitist propaganda piece outlining Trump's disarray:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21717066-furore-over-americas-national-security-adviser-axing-michael-flynn-reveals-deep
Quote
Mr Trump has so far nominated 35 people to fill some 700 senior positions that require Senate confirmation. On February 15th one of them, Andrew Puzder, his chosen labour secretary, withdrew his nomination after it became clear he would struggle to get confirmed. This poor progress is making it even harder for Mr Mattis and his cabinet colleagues, including Rex Tillerson, the secretary of state, to push back against the turmoil emanating from the White House.

Oh, how the elitist media likes to forget, cherry-pick and/or rewrite history in order to push their dogma.  Below is a little history, but first remember that at the beginning of Obama’s term in 2009 the Democrats held 57 seats in the Senate. 

1.  In December 2008, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson was nominated to be Commerce Secretary.  Nomination withdrawn.  Richardson was the subject of a high-profile probe and ongoing grand jury investigation into whether he traded New Mexico government contracts for campaign contributions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson

2.  In 2009, Obama nominated Republican Senator Judd Gregg to be the Commerce Secretary.  Gregg withdrew himself because of conflicts with Obama policies he would have to implement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judd_Gregg

3.  In 2009, Tom Daschle was nominated to be the Health and Human Services Secretary.  Nomination withdrawn.  Tax problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Daschle

4.  In 2009, Nancy Killefer was nominated to be the Chief Performance Officer. Killefer withdrew her nomination as CPO on February 3, 2009. Tax problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Killefer

5.  What about Obama wanting to nominate Charles Freeman to be the National Intelligence Council Chairman in 2009.  Freeman sent a letter asking that he not be nominated after it was revealed Freeman had served for four years on the board of the China National Offshore Oil Corporation, a company owned by the Chinese government.   There were other issues involving Saudi Arabia.  Freeman charged that he had been the victim of a concerted campaign by what he called "the Israel lobby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_W._Freeman,_Jr

6.  There are really good graphs at the next link that compare Presidents and how long it took each President to fill their cabinet positions.  Actually, the entire article is worth reading if you want a better understanding of the statistics regarding Presidential nomination and Senate confirmation. Guess which President took longer than W. Bush, Clinton and H.W. Bush to fill their cabinet positions?  Again, remember that the Democrats held 57 Senate seats in 2009.

I bet that in 2009 the elitist media must have been screaming and ranting about Obama’s incompetence because it took Obama so much longer than the three previous Presidents to fill his cabinet.  OMG, I’m using a Washington Post link!  Maybe the elitists will believe this information…..

  https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/how-long-confirmations-will-take/

7.  Obama also stated that he should not be judged by his first hundred days: "The first hundred days is going to be important, but it’s probably going to be the first thousand days that makes the difference.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_100_days_of_Barack_Obama%27s_presidency

I think that for me this impeachment thread has pretty much played out. Enjoyed the discussion.  I’ll close with these comments.

Many of US supported Trump for President not because we thought that he was a great person, but because we believed that a political hand grenade needed to be thrown into Washington D.C.    And, Trump was this political hand grenade. 

The reaction by the elitists since the election has caused everyone I know who supported Trump to dig-in more with their support. He is governing the way we expected and wanted.  It is the elitists and the establishments that don’t like the way he is governing because they are losing their control.   Furthermore, they are reinforcing our belief that something sweeping needed to be done.

Trump ran against the Republican establishment, the Democratic establishment and the Washington D.C. bureaucratic establishment.  He beat the Republican establishment in the primaries; he beat the Democratic establishment in the November election; and he is now starting on the bureaucratic establishment.  The Republican and Democratic establishments are still trying to fight him, and the bureaucratic establishment is currently flexing their muscles (e.g. Flynn…..).  The bureaucrats like things the way they are with high salaries, regular pay raises, guaranteed pensions, great health care coverage, and no accountability.

Again, if you don’t really understand or accept why Trump won the election, you will never understand or accept why it would be suicidal for the Republican House to impeach him.  Furthermore, on why he can win a second term - if he wants one.

If you want Trump out of office before 2020 start thinking diet; as his diet will probably get him long before impeachment….


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: dandred on February 17, 2017, 03:50:50 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-s-electoral-college-win-was-not-biggest-reagan-n722016 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-s-electoral-college-win-was-not-biggest-reagan-n722016)

The retard can't even get simple facts straight! Claims to have had the biggest ever electoral collage win, then says it was the biggest republican win, and then talks about how much of a great win it was. Must be embarrassing to be a republican right now!

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 17, 2017, 07:50:31 PM
The retard can't even get simple facts straight!

Must be embarrassing to be a republican right now!

Hehe, this is why he keeps killing it. Libs look for the crossed "T" and dotted "I", while missing the meaning of the sentence.

Everyone is seeing this play out on the public stage...except libs.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 17, 2017, 09:09:08 PM
The retard can't even get simple facts straight!

Must be embarrassing to be a republican right now!

Hehe, this is why he keeps killing it. Libs look for the crossed "T" and dotted "I", while missing the meaning of the sentence.

Everyone 46.4% of the US population are seeing this play out on the public stage...except libs.

Fixed it for you!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 17, 2017, 09:18:54 PM
^ I think that is a math error, cause you subtracted "libs" twice.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on February 17, 2017, 10:15:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TfqTHlMszA
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on February 17, 2017, 11:26:19 PM
Trump is in big trouble. He is at war with the deep state,



Former NSA official tweets out Trump will “die in jail” in ongoing war with deep state intelligence community

Trump has clearly angered the intelligence community, elements of which are going all-in to discredit him, delegitimize him, hamper his agenda and stop him from implementing any real reforms to business as usual, which the very co-opted and compromised Hillary Clinton would have adopted had she won in November.

The tension really ramped up following an appearance by Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., on MSNBC, in which he told host Rachel Maddow it was “really dumb” of the president to anger the intelligence community, because “they have six ways from Sunday of getting back at you” (I doubt Schumer would have been so tolerant of the IC if it had taken similar action to delegitimize Barack Obama).

But this kind of blatant, over-the-top disrespect for the president of the United States, coming from careerist intelligence and foreign policy bureaucrats, is unprecedented in the modern era. There were plenty of errors made by the Obama administration – but apparently most of the careerists agreed with Obama’s foreign policy, perhaps because he didn’t fight the intel establishment.

On Wednesday, in the aftermath of the resignation of Trump’s national security advisor, Michael Flynn – thought to be the first of many Trump national security team casualties to come – former NSA analyst and Naval War College professor John Schindler was asked by a follower, “What do you think is going on inside NatSec right now after Trump’s ‘intelligence’ tweet this morning?”

Schindler, who also writes regularly for the New York Observer online – which is owned by Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law – responded:

Quote
Now we go nuclear. IC war going to new levels. Just got an EM fm senior IC friend, it began: “He will die in jail.”
http://talknetwork.com/2017-02-16-former-nsa-official-tweets-out-trump-will-die-in-jail-in-ongoing-war-with-deep-state-intelligence-community.html (http://talknetwork.com/2017-02-16-former-nsa-official-tweets-out-trump-will-die-in-jail-in-ongoing-war-with-deep-state-intelligence-community.html)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: dandred on February 17, 2017, 11:46:58 PM
Senior Republican adviser says something is ‘deeply wrong’ with Donald Trump

Comments follow what adviser described as ‘the most bizarre press conference in history’

  :laugh:  :laugh:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-republican-adviser-something-deeply-wrong-quote-a7585511.html
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on February 18, 2017, 02:18:53 AM
Senior Republican adviser says something is ‘deeply wrong’ with Donald Trump


Actually I see something deeply wrong with what America has become. And so does anyone with a brain.

And the reckless irrational hatred of liberals who want to make war on a nuclear-armed country (Russia) just because they can't get over losing an election? its like... half the country is utterly childish.



Crosstalk on Flynn: Palace coup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxshhObR9Fk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxshhObR9Fk)

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 18, 2017, 05:54:14 AM
Senior Republican adviser...

Comments follow what adviser described as ‘the most bizarre press conference in history’

Haha. Just shows another government drone who does not understand why Trump won, he's out of touch with the people. Republicans have been clueless for decades.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on February 18, 2017, 07:22:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3VBFijHS4s
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 18, 2017, 12:49:01 PM
^ I think that is a math error, cause you subtracted "libs" twice.

http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/president

Trump 46.4%
Clinton 48.5%

So, 46.4% of "everyone" believe any of the BS that comes out of Trump's mouth.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on February 18, 2017, 04:08:39 PM
^ I think that is a math error, cause you subtracted "libs" twice.

http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/president

Trump 46.4%
Clinton 48.5%

So, 46.4% of "everyone" believe any of the BS that comes out of Trump's mouth.

Wait, so why did Hillary concede?

Are you disputing the results of the popular vote?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on February 23, 2017, 12:04:23 AM
Well I suppose we end up with the government we deserve.
Pretty surprising numbers (for me at least) showing support for Trumpernickel.
http://thehill.com/home-news/administration/320487-poll-americans-overwhelmingly-oppose-sanctuary-cities

"An overwhelming majority of Americans believe that cities that arrest illegal immigrants for crimes should be required to turn them over to federal authorities.

The poll shows that President Trump has broad public support in his effort to crack down on sanctuary cities.

A survey from Harvard–Harris Poll provided exclusively to The Hill found that 80 percent of voters say local authorities should have to comply with the law by reporting to federal agents the illegal immigrants they come into contact with.


As it stands, hundreds of cities across the nation — many with Democratic mayors or city councils — are refusing to do so.
Trump has signed an executive order directing Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly to find ways to starve these sanctuary cities of federal funding. A Reuters analysis found the top 10 sanctuary cities in the U.S. receive $2.27 billion in federal funding for programs ranging from public health services to early childhood education.

Kelly is expected to hire thousands of new immigration enforcement agents with broad authority to detain and deport those in the country illegally, potentially setting up a showdown between the federal government and sanctuary cities.

The Harvard–Harris Poll survey found strong support for an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, with 77 percent saying they support comprehensive immigration reform against only 23 percent who oppose.


“While there is broad support for comprehensive immigration reform, there is overwhelming opposition to sanctuary cities,” said Harvard–Harris co-director Mark Penn. “The public wants honest immigrants treated fairly and those who commit crimes deported and that's very clear from the data.”

The finding is one of several in the survey that show Trump has support for some of the controversial immigration proposals that were a hallmark of his campaign.



A majority — 52 percent — say they support Trump’s two executive orders allowing for the construction of a southern border wall, increasing the number of immigration officers by 10,000 and finding a way to revoke federal funds for sanctuary cities.

The crackdown on sanctuary cities is the most popular feature of those actions, followed closely by the directive to increase the border patrol, which is backed by 75 percent of voters.

The wall is the most divisive element of Trump’s plan, with 53 percent opposing its construction.

Meanwhile, 53 percent of voters surveyed said they back Trump’s travel ban, which was rejected by the courts. That order temporarily suspended the United States' refugee program for 120 days, indefinitely suspended resettlement for Syrian refugees and imposed a 90-day travel and immigration ban from seven predominately Muslim nations: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Libya and Somalia.

Kelly has said the administration will roll out a “tighter, more streamlined version” of the executive order some time soon.

Trump's new order is expected to target the same seven countries but will not include people who already have a visa to travel to the U.S. It will also exempt green card holders who are citizens of one of the countries in question.

Fifty-six percent say they support the specific aspect of Trump’s order that pauses immigration from the seven countries on the terrorism watch list until a new vetting system is in place.

Support for that policy goes up to 60 percent when the seven nations are described as “Muslim majority countries.”

Voters are worried that the federal judge’s suspension of Trump’s order — a ruling that was upheld this month at an appeals court in San Francisco — could put the nation at risk.

A plurality — 38 percent — say the federal judge’s suspension makes the nation less safe. Thirty-six percent said the court’s ruling will have no impact, and 26 percent said it will make the country safer.

The survey also found there are deep concerns among Americans over refugees fleeing their homelands for safety in the U.S.

Forty-seven percent said allowing refugees into the country has a negative impact on the nation, compared to only 33 percent who said it has a positive effect.

When voters are told that the U.S. is slated to receive 100,000 Syrian refugees, 51 percent said that number should be lower, 34 percent said it is an appropriate number, and 15 percent said the U.S. should allow more.

“Americans support both comprehensive immigration reform and stronger vetting and reduced refugees — they want a mix of compassion, strong borders,” said Penn. “They see ISIS as the greatest threat to the country and that is spurring concerns about refugee migration.”

The online survey of 2,148 registered voters was conducted between Feb. 11 and 13. The partisan breakdown is 39 percent Democrat, 30 percent Republican, 27 percent independent and 5 percent other. The Harvard–Harris Poll survey is a collaboration of the Harvard Center for American Political Studies and The Harris Poll."
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 23, 2017, 07:02:34 AM
Pretty surprising numbers (for me at least) showing support for Trumpernickel.

The poll shows that President Trump has broad public support in his effort to crack down on sanctuary cities.

Everyone has known this for awhile, that's why he ran on it and won.

Americans are NOT in favor of what the liberals say is best for them. The liberal media just keep running this stuff about how Trump is a nazi hurting immigrants feelings or whatever. Uhh no, he is enforcing what the American people want. And he is massively discrediting the radical left for going against the public's wishes.

If the radicals do not follow the law they will be dealt with...the public is in favor of that.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Conner42 on February 23, 2017, 08:35:45 AM
It's pretty god damn funny that I've seen the phrase "liberal fascist" pop up more than a couple of times here...

Wait, funny or sad? I really can't tell the difference anymore.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 23, 2017, 08:45:39 AM
It's pretty god damn funny that I've seen the phrase "liberal fascist" pop up more than a couple of times here...

I would like to take credit for the term.  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Been working on it awhile. The most descriptive term I came up for modern liberalism is "liberal corporate fascism". The corporate aspect is very important. I played around with "corporatist" and "progressivist" but it's hard to fit the words together and becomes cumbersome. You need something catchy like "fake news" in today's culture, so I shortened it to liberal fascism, aka "the anti-fascists are the new fascists".

Been hammering the internets with it, and now I see it showing up in conversations. Of course someone else might have launched it independently and I'm giving myself too much credit.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Conner42 on February 23, 2017, 09:15:47 AM
It's pretty god damn funny that I've seen the phrase "liberal fascist" pop up more than a couple of times here...

I would like to take credit for the term.  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Been working on it awhile. The most descriptive term I came up for modern liberalism is "liberal corporate fascism". The corporate aspect is very important. I played around with "corporatist" and "progressivist" but it's hard to fit the words together and becomes cumbersome. You need something catchy like "fake news" in today's culture, so I shortened it to liberal fascism, aka "the anti-fascists are the new fascists".

Been hammering the internets with it, and now I see it showing up in conversations. Of course someone else might have launched it independently and I'm giving myself too much credit.
Okay, so it's like an ironic joke or something.

I will say that it's also a little ironic that a term gets thrown around like this by people who support someone who resembles an actual fascist. Maybe not completely, but the comparisons aren't exactly off base.

But, whatever. It's the usual game in politics. We just throw words at each other because we know they sound bad and are insulting but we never take the time to understand what they mean. Never change, people  ;D
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 23, 2017, 09:42:22 AM
Okay, so it's like an ironic joke or something.

Wrong, as I stated, it is a term to encompass what modern liberalism has become. Intolerance, and the ability to enforce their narrow views on others, and silence anyone who disagrees.

There is nothing fascist about Trump, it was the democratic process, will of the people.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: orionchocopie on February 23, 2017, 09:54:10 AM
Okay, so it's like an ironic joke or something.

Wrong, as I stated, it is a term to encompass what modern liberalism has become. Intolerance, and the ability to enforce their narrow views on others, and silence anyone who disagrees.

There is nothing fascist about Trump, it was the democratic process, will of the people.

But what if the people are fascist?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on February 23, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
But what if the people are fascist?

That's "stuff liberals say".  :wink:

The psychology of liberals is "I know better than everyone else", if it doesn't go my way, I am justified in overthrowing the government and/or violence. That's what makes them fascists.

That's also how they lost the election. "Deplorables, white supremacists", hate language at people who do not agree with them.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on March 06, 2017, 11:14:13 AM
Trump is in big trouble. He is at war with the deep state, and his support from congressional Republicans is paper thin. Due to his clear violations of the emoluments clause, and of course possible ties to the interests of a foreign power, he is eligible for impeachment any time congress decides to pull the plug

If the deep state and congress want to overturn the democratic will of the people then someone should be at war them surely?

You guys throw democracy out the window the moment it produces a result you don't like.

Don't lump me in with the American deep-state or Demublican politicians. I am definitely not part of "you guys", in that regard.

The topic of this thread is not should Trump will be impeached, but if/when. Hence my post.

For the record -- I think Trump should be impeached -- because he's breaking the laws that apply to federal officers, and is breaking his oath of office. But I think it should be done on those grounds, as the result of public pressure from the overwhelming majority of Americans who now oppose Trump.

If the deep-state takes down the president, it would be a massive step backwards for democracy. Just look at Egypt. As bad as the Muslim Brotherhood is, the junta back in power is much, much worse.

I also don't like to see how many liberals naively believe there is something *wrong* with detente and peace between the world's 2 biggest nuclear powers. While Trump/his team may have violated the rules before the election/before beginning his term, make no mistake. This rhetoric from the Democrats is to justify bigger military encirclement and diplomatic and isolation of Russia so that American hegemony in Eurasia remains. If pipelines are allowed to connect China, Russia, Europe, India, and the middle east, the U.S.A.'s influence takes a massive hit -- THAT is why the Democrats and (filthy, murderous) spies like to talk about Putin and Trump -- not for any altruistic defence of American democracy.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: insulimted on March 06, 2017, 12:20:08 PM


But I think it should be done on those grounds, as the result of public pressure from the overwhelming majority of Americans who now oppose Trump.


Maybe you're using 'American' to refer to all the people on the two America continents, but even then I doubt you would find an 'overwhelming majority' who now oppose Trump.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on March 06, 2017, 01:01:45 PM
Perhaps the word "overwhelming" was over the top. But his unpopularity is historic.

http://www.inquisitr.com/4034798/donald-trump-approval-ratings-hit-lowest-among-past-potus/
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 06, 2017, 01:06:05 PM
^ Made up numbers by the blue city people.

The country elected Trump, they support him even more now that liberal fascism has been exposed. This is a coup by the Dems and blue corporations, I'm fine with Trump bringing in tanks.  8)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: turningsteel on March 06, 2017, 01:08:42 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/opinion/when-one-president-smears-another.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

I answered the poll to say that he will finish out his term, but after this weekend, I think 2017 will be a record year.  Between Trump accusing Obama of wire tapping him(which he can't even order as President) to Roger Stone and Sean Hannity having twitter meltdowns, it's laughable how stupid these people are.  This kind of behavior on behalf of Trump and his camp is indefensible.  Remember who this guy is, he's the President of the United States.  Even Nixon had more decorum. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 06, 2017, 01:15:01 PM
This kind of behavior on behalf of Trump and his camp is indefensible. 

Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 06, 2017, 02:38:17 PM
Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.


(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2660668.1401547301!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/4x3_620/iconic-protests.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 06, 2017, 02:55:45 PM
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.

Yawn, we all know what liberals will do, 10 moves in advance...that's how they are losing.

Trump baited them into a coup, they will go too far, he will legally crack down, they will say "eeekk, see we knew he is like Hitler!". They are the oppressors, but in their bizarre "oppression olympics" they want to be victimized, because losing proves you are owed special treatment (the liberal mind is diseased). Obama may end up in prison, that would be the cherry on top for him, then he can write a SJW novel from jail.

Again, come get some. The vote was firmly in favor of law and order.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 06, 2017, 03:03:56 PM
Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.


(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2660668.1401547301!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/4x3_620/iconic-protests.jpg)

Not that I'm defending it but those soldiers and tanks combined with the suppression of the event through the state controlled media played out surprisingly well for the regime. It's incredible the number of 20 something Chinese students who have no knowledge what so ever of these events. Obliviously those that do are reluctant to expand on them at great length.
Perhaps Ptolemy could provide his views on the events to show us his hand.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 06, 2017, 03:13:47 PM
Perhaps Ptolemy could provide his views on the events to show us his hand.

I am not educated on these China events, so I can't speak about that.

The American situation however involves a democracy. Trump was elected by the people. The intolerant left will not accept the rightful government. They are wrong, period. Any "victory" for them, makes America a failed state.

Shrug, what else is there to say? This is not complicated.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 06, 2017, 03:19:24 PM
Perhaps the word "overwhelming" was over the top. But his unpopularity is historic.

http://www.inquisitr.com/4034798/donald-trump-approval-ratings-hit-lowest-among-past-potus/

Approval ratings of 65%+ will never happen again in America as long as the current hyper-partisan spirit reigns, absent some sort of 9/11 "country comes together" moment.
 As long as Trump stays north of 40%, he's fine. 30-40 will get dicey. Below 30% and he's sunk.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 06, 2017, 04:09:47 PM
Approval ratings of 65%+ will never happen again in America as long as the current hyper-partisan spirit reigns, absent some sort of 9/11 "country comes together" moment.

That brings up another point. All this borderline-coup type stuff is just asking for the current administration to trigger a war, or 911 type event. Historically that's one way you bring the mob together in divided times, then the libs can complain about that, but they are bringing it on themselves.

You can just see them in the streets, always protesting the stuff they cause [facepalm]. Can science please invent a pill to cure liberalism?   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 06, 2017, 04:26:58 PM
I am not educated on these China events, so I can't speak about that.

You don't say! Who would have thought.
This coming from the guy who expects "Asia will rally around China".
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: waygookinhanguk on March 06, 2017, 04:45:10 PM
Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.


(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2660668.1401547301!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/4x3_620/iconic-protests.jpg)

Not that I'm defending it but those soldiers and tanks combined with the suppression of the event through the state controlled media played out surprisingly well for the regime. It's incredible the number of 20 something Chinese students who have no knowledge what so ever of these events. Obliviously those that do are reluctant to expand on them at great length.

+1 There were no lasting negative consequences for the regime. The protests would not have been so strong had the Chinese economy not been struggling with high inflation.  To a lot of the protestors, "democracy" was the solution because they saw democratic nations such as the USA and much of Europe doing well. They were not committed to a democractic society. We have not seen protests on that scale since because we haven't seen comparable economic struggles in China since 1989.

The Gate of Heavenly Peace was an interesting documentary about the protests. A professor mentioned what he saw when students took a vote on a proposed action. Some students wanted those who opposed the motion thrown out of the lecture hall.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 06, 2017, 05:18:11 PM
This coming from the guy who expects "Asia will rally around China".

Yes, that's pretty much a certainty.

Back on the topic of out of control liberals. It does seem like some sort of catastrophic event needs to happen, to teach these people a lesson. They are living in a dream world.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 06, 2017, 11:30:06 PM
Quote
Back on the topic of out of control liberals. It does seem like some sort of catastrophic event needs to happen, to teach these people a lesson.

Problem is they might take the world down with them in the process of learning their "lesson".

Washington is back to threatening, provoking and antagonizing Russia again. At the same time, they are building up forces in Ukraine right on Russias border. They are also putting the finishing touches to a missile "shield" system encircling Russia that could also act as a Launchpad for missiles into Russia with their targets only 5 minutes away.

Trump has now declared that Russia must give up Crimea and said that he will spend extra billions on updating his arsenal to achieve military superiority.

What message do you think this sends to the kremlin?

At the moment Russia still has the edge militarily.


If you were  Russia, would you strike now while you're ahead, or wait to be attacked?




Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 07, 2017, 10:00:36 AM
At the moment Russia still has the edge militarily.
lol
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 07, 2017, 10:06:24 AM
California alone has more than double the wealth of all of Russia.

USA > Russia
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: waygo0k on March 07, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
In Mother Russia...guns fire YOU!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 07, 2017, 10:42:27 AM
Not that I'm defending it but those soldiers and tanks combined with the suppression of the event through the state controlled media played out surprisingly well for the regime. It's incredible the number of 20 something Chinese students who have no knowledge what so ever of these events. Obliviously those that do are reluctant to expand on them at great length.
Perhaps Ptolemy could provide his views on the events to show us his hand.
No denying that. Most of the Chinese nationals who do actually know about it (and care) have long since fled the country. Back when I was in Uni, I had a TA who had protested there, and would frequently discuss it. Pretty interesting stuff. Ptolemy  (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h9Tq51gTxwE/hqdefault.jpg)wouldn't be able to provide any info as, like you say, China has managed to erase the memory of it in its citizens pretty thoroughly.  :undecided:

Still, that picture is a pretty powerful one: most people (outside of China) will immediately recognize it an have some idea of the events it symbolizes. It's due to images and stories like this one that keeps the world wary of Chinese expansionism, and may be the reason why nobody really trusts it.



Washington is back to threatening, provoking and antagonizing Russia again. At the same time, they are building up forces in Ukraine right on Russias border. They are also putting the finishing touches to a missile "shield" system encircling Russia that could also act as a Launchpad for missiles into Russia with their targets only 5 minutes away.
Well yes. Setting up anti-missile batteries seems like the appropriate response to this (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/10/russia-moves-nuclear-capable-missiles-nato-doorstep-161009050219704.html), doesn't it?


Trump has now declared that Russia must give up Crimea and said that he will spend extra billions on updating his arsenal to achieve military superiority.
Actually, according to the RT (https://www.rt.com/usa/377346-spicer-russia-return-crimea/) (a source you haven't claimed to be 'fake news', right?) Trump only stated that he "expects the Russian government to de-escalate violence in the Ukraine and return Crimea... and at the same time, he fully expects to – and wants to – get along with Russia."

The billions he plans to spend on military dick-waving isn't aimed at Russia in particular.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 07, 2017, 10:56:44 AM

At the moment Russia still has the edge militarily.


Aurata you know I'm with you on the whole anti-Russian hysteria and the fact that the U.S. is just as dirty and has been antagonizing, so I hope you'll listen when I say this-

The U.S. is at least one order of magnitude stronger than Russia militarily. Russia is probably the closest, but it's not THAT close.

Desert Storm was a rude shock to the USSR and really alerted them to the qualitative difference and more importantly, the logistical, electronic, and command difference in capability. Sure Russia has improved somewhat since then, but not as much as the U.S. has.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: TylerDurden on March 07, 2017, 11:00:54 AM
Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.


(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2660668.1401547301!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/4x3_620/iconic-protests.jpg)

Not that I'm defending it but those soldiers and tanks combined with the suppression of the event through the state controlled media played out surprisingly well for the regime. It's incredible the number of 20 something Chinese students who have no knowledge what so ever of these events. Obliviously those that do are reluctant to expand on them at great length.

+1 There were no lasting negative consequences for the regime. The protests would not have been so strong had the Chinese economy not been struggling with high inflation.  To a lot of the protestors, "democracy" was the solution because they saw democratic nations such as the USA and much of Europe doing well. They were not committed to a democractic society. We have not seen protests on that scale since because we haven't seen comparable economic struggles in China since 1989.

The Gate of Heavenly Peace was an interesting documentary about the protests. A professor mentioned what he saw when students took a vote on a proposed action. Some students wanted those who opposed the motion thrown out of the lecture hall.
Sorry snowflakes but I am 43 years old, left leaning and I voted for Donald Trump, which marks the first time I voted for a republican.  I blame your college professors for making you so intolerant and incapable of understanding that not everyone shares the same political opinions you do.  Might want to venture outside the echo chamber kids.   Kisses darlings! :) 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: DLJL on March 07, 2017, 11:07:16 AM
This coming from the guy who expects "Asia will rally around China".

Yes, that's pretty much a certainty.

Back on the topic of out of control liberals. It does seem like some sort of catastrophic event needs to happen, to teach these people a lesson. They are living in a dream world.

You shouldn't group people together into monoliths like "liberals" or "libs".

It removes all the nuance and complexity from conversations and it also makes you look like you suffer from aggressively low intelligence.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: DLJL on March 07, 2017, 11:09:35 AM

Sorry snowflakes but I am 43 years old, left leaning and I voted for Donald Trump, which marks the first time I voted for a republican.  I blame your college professors for making you so intolerant and incapable of understanding that not everyone shares the same political opinions you do.  Might want to venture outside the echo chamber kids.   Kisses darlings! :)

Get outside of your echo chambers! Be like me and recite trendy talking points word for word as though they were original thoughts while also using a catchy buzzword to describe everyone who doesn't think the way I do, all while utterly oblivious to the painful, cringe-worthy irony of everything I just said.


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: TylerDurden on March 07, 2017, 11:09:49 AM
IMPEACHED!!! I personally can't wait. At least Mike Pence can form an intelligent sentence and understands basic government functioning.

Reasons to impeach can be found here, plus any new ones that may will arise in the near future.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/318045-the-house-can-start-impeachment-against-trump-now
Sweetheart, a democrat citing TheHill as their source is like a republican citing Fox news for theirs.  The mainstream media is the democratic party and too many of us are being admonish for thinking for ourselves.   

Quote
Poll: 4 in 10 support impeaching Trump

Autoplay: On | Off
Much of the public is eager for the impeachment of President Trump. A poll last week found that 40 percent of Americans already “support” impeaching him, and the same survey — by highly regarded Public Policy Polling — found that another 12 percent are “not sure.”

From the outset of his presidency, Trump has been violating the U.S. Constitution in a way that we have not seen before and should not tolerate. It’s time for members of Congress to get the impeachment process underway.

The Constitution states that to start impeachment proceedings, a document or “resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question” must be introduced in the House of Representatives. Such a move would have been appropriate from the moment that Trump became president.
As documented in depth on the ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org website — where more than 600,000 people have already signed a petition for impeachment — the president continues to violate two “emoluments” clauses in the Constitution. One prohibits any gifts or benefits from foreign governments, and the other prohibits the same from the U.S. government or any U.S. state.

To uphold the bedrock principle that no one should be above the supreme law of the land, a resolute member of the House must now take the lead in introducing a resolution to get impeachment rolling. That process is necessarily difficult — and essential.

Former White House counsel John Dean, who served President Nixon from 1970 to 1973, told The Atlantic magazine: “I don’t think Richard Nixon even comes close to the level of corruption we already know about Trump.”

Since that interview with Dean three weeks ago, we’ve been learning more about Trump’s unconstitutional corruption as president. The case that Trump is in flagrant violation of the Constitution gained added strength over the weekend when The Associated Press reported: “New documents confirm that President Donald Trump retains a direct tie to his business interests through a revocable trust now being overseen by one of his adult sons and a longtime executive of the Trump Organization.”

What’s more, AP reported, “Trump is the sole beneficiary of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, which is tied to his Social Security number as the taxpayer identification number, according to documents published online by the investigative nonprofit ProPublica. And Trump can revoke the trust, which was amended three days before his inauguration, at any time.”

Members of Congress should initiate an impeachment process because of two clear provisions in the Constitution.

The Foreign Emoluments Clause says: “[N]o Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States], shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.”

And the Constitution’s Domestic Emoluments Clause (also known as the Presidential Compensation Clause), which cannot be waived by Congress, says: “The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”

In addition, a House committee’s impeachment probe should also investigate whether President Trump is violating the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge Act of 2012 (STOCK Act). One of the few federal ethics statutes that specifically include the president, the STOCK Act — among other provisions — prohibits the president from (1) using nonpublic information for private profit, and from (2) intentionally influencing an employment decision or practice of a private entity solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation.

A crucial test for democracy is whether people in high places can violate the law with impunity. For democracy in the United States, the biggest danger is unchecked presidential ability to violate the Constitution.

In a speech on the House floor last Thursday that spelled out some of Trump’s extreme conflicts-of-interest, Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI) closed with a cogent reference to the fact that Congress can “even explore the power of impeachment.”

Let the exploration begin.

Norman Solomon is co-founder of the activist group RootsAction.org, which has nearly 1 million supporters online. He was a Bernie Sanders delegate from California to the Democratic National Convention, where he was the leader and coordinator of the Bernie Delegates Network. RootsAction and Free Speech For People are sponsoring the grassroots impeachment campaign at ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org."



https://www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/

And then there is the actual man running the show:

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/02/06/trump-not-fully-briefed-order-elevating-bannon-security-council

Quote
President Donald Trump reportedly did not realize he was promoting chief strategist Steve Bannon to the National Security Council (NSC) Principals Committee when he signed the executive order dropping intelligence and defense officials from the top government panel and elevating the former Breitbart News chair in their place.

The New York Times reported over the weekend that Trump had not been fully briefed on his own executive order, which became "a greater source of frustration to the president" than the protests and legal actions over his travel ban blocking immigrants from seven majority-Muslim countries.

Reporters Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman depicted an administration that's just barely keeping a lid on its internal crises, turf wars, and lack of preparation—and a scheming chief strategist that's successfully taken advantage of it all.

They wrote:

[White House chief of staff Reince] Priebus told Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon that the administration needs to rethink its policy and communications operation in the wake of embarrassing revelations that key details of the orders were withheld from agencies, White House staff, and Republican congressional leaders like Speaker Paul D. Ryan.

Mr. Priebus has also created a 10-point checklist for the release of any new initiatives that includes signoff from the communications department and the White House staff secretary, Robert Porter, according to several aides familiar with the process.

Mr. Priebus bristles at the perception that he occupies a diminished perch in the West Wing pecking order compared with previous chiefs. But for the moment, Mr. Bannon remains the president's dominant adviser, despite Mr. Trump's anger that he was not fully briefed on details of the executive order he signed giving his chief strategist a seat on the National Security Council, a greater source of frustration to the president than the fallout from the travel ban.

Trump seemingly clarified on Twitter that he calls his own shots, "largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it." He also accused the Times of writing "total fiction" about him.

The executive order promoted Bannon, a white nationalist with no foreign policy or government experience, to a regular seat at some of the most sensitive meetings at the highest levels of government, along with other NSC meetings. Meanwhile, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—who need to be confirmed by the Senate—were directed to only attend meetings when discussions pertain to their "responsibilities and expertise."

The memo led to speculation that the right-wing power grab in the executive branch could be setting the stage for a coup d'état.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 07, 2017, 11:22:25 AM
Hehehe, the conservative satirists are way funnier than the competition...

(https://cdn.milo.yiannopoulos.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/800-x-419-Canvas-59-759x419.png)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: waygookinhanguk on March 07, 2017, 05:01:37 PM
Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.


(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2660668.1401547301!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/4x3_620/iconic-protests.jpg)

Not that I'm defending it but those soldiers and tanks combined with the suppression of the event through the state controlled media played out surprisingly well for the regime. It's incredible the number of 20 something Chinese students who have no knowledge what so ever of these events. Obliviously those that do are reluctant to expand on them at great length.

+1 There were no lasting negative consequences for the regime. The protests would not have been so strong had the Chinese economy not been struggling with high inflation.  To a lot of the protestors, "democracy" was the solution because they saw democratic nations such as the USA and much of Europe doing well. They were not committed to a democractic society. We have not seen protests on that scale since because we haven't seen comparable economic struggles in China since 1989.

The Gate of Heavenly Peace was an interesting documentary about the protests. A professor mentioned what he saw when students took a vote on a proposed action. Some students wanted those who opposed the motion thrown out of the lecture hall.
Sorry snowflakes but I am 43 years old, left leaning and I voted for Donald Trump, which marks the first time I voted for a republican.  I blame your college professors for making you so intolerant and incapable of understanding that not everyone shares the same political opinions you do.  Might want to venture outside the echo chamber kids.   Kisses darlings! :)

WTF? I highlight an example of intolerance of different opinions and yet you get the completely opposite conclusion? I think you need to crawl out your own echo chamber first before lecturing others. Once you see the full picture you'll realise that making assumptions about somebody's age and education are dumb in the extreme when you can't even read their comments in full.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 07, 2017, 07:17:58 PM
More greatness...

(https://scontent-icn1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17103518_1879744898905601_2263956777096774383_n.jpg?oh=3b2ac81f0969ceecf9b5ccdbbb56525f&oe=5971798F)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 07, 2017, 08:38:50 PM
The moment someone uses the following terms it can be accepted that said poster is functionally retarded:

Snowflake
Libtard
Cuckservative
Literally Hitler
Actual Nazi
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 07, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
The moment someone uses the following terms it can be accepted that said poster is functionally retarded:

Snowflake
Libtard


Not one but TWO snowflake libtards took direct headshots from the stick of the Alt Knight.  :cry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOZwUfsql5M
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 07, 2017, 10:26:35 PM

At the moment Russia still has the edge militarily.


Aurata you know I'm with you on the whole anti-Russian hysteria and the fact that the U.S. is just as dirty and has been antagonizing, so I hope you'll listen when I say this-

The U.S. is at least one order of magnitude stronger than Russia militarily.

First up I meant in terms of nuclear capability.

Quote
Russia has 1,735 strategic warheads deployed on 521 ICBMs, SLBMs, and strategic bombers, and 2,700 non-deployed strategic and deployed and non-deployed tactical warheads, and 3,200 additional warheads are awaiting dismantlement.

The United States has 1,481 strategic nuclear warheads deployed on 741 ICBMs, SLBMs, and strategic bombers, and 2,570 non-deployed strategic warheads, and roughly 500 deployed and non-deployed tactical warheads, and approximately 2,500 warheads retired and awaiting dismantlement.
http://theduran.com/russia-vs-the-us-who-has-the-stronger-military/ (http://theduran.com/russia-vs-the-us-who-has-the-stronger-military/)

So Russia is clearly superior.

Secondly, talking conventional warfare is irrelevant...because any war with Russia would quickly go nuclear.

And Russia has promised it will never again fight a conventional war on its own soil. In fact Putin has kept making these kind of statements but the idiots in Washington ignore him. That is how stupid the neo-con leadership in Washington is.


But lets entertain your idea that both sides would keep their hands off the nukes.

The scenario we would be looking at is an American invasion of Russia (because unlike the US,  Russia isn't threatening anyone). In that case, you wouldn't have a hope. Lets see..you can't even defeat a few Taliban with AK-47's, but you think you can take Russia?


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 07, 2017, 11:13:40 PM
They are also putting the finishing touches to a missile "shield" system encircling Russia that could also act as a Launchpad for missiles into Russia with their targets only 5 minutes away.

Quote from: kyndo
Well yes. Setting up anti-missile batteries seems like the appropriate response to this (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/10/russia-moves-nuclear-capable-missiles-nato-doorstep-161009050219704.html), doesn't it?

lol you are ridiculously out of touch with the reality of the situation.

Russians are responding to American provocation, not the other way round.

Quote
U.S. launches long-awaited European missile defense shield

By Ryan Browne, CNN
Updated 2246 GMT (0646 HKT) May 12, 2016

The U.S. launched a new ground-based missile defense system in Romania Thursday, sparking fresh tensions with Russia, which quickly blasted the system as a threat to its security.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/11/politics/nato-missile-defense-romania-poland/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/11/politics/nato-missile-defense-romania-poland/)

Unless you think October comes before May?


Quote
Trump only stated that he "expects the Russian government to de-escalate violence in the Ukraine and return Crimea... and at the same time, he fully expects to – and wants to – get along with Russia."

In other words he's simply continuing the same narrative as the Obama administration.

Coupled with his sudden announcement to upgrade his nukes, as well as the American build up of troops on russias borders, the constant demonization of Russia in the liberal press, the construction of US bases in all countries surrounding Russia, the repeated threats to take military action against Russia, the recent American military drills right on russias border, the building od nuclear missile launchers on russias borders....and you still claim that none of this is directed at Russia?


Most americans are ridiculously out of touch with the danger their leaders are taking them into.


Ukraine was destabilized by the US, not Russia.
Russia does not control events in eastern Ukraine.
Crimea has been part of Russia for centuries.
Crimea voted in a referendum to return to Russia.
there was no "invasion of Crimea"
There was no "invasion of Ukraine"
Russia rejected eastern Ukraines call to become part of Russia. So obviously Russia is not the aggressive force that Washington is portraying it to be.

Until you get these basic elementary facts right...you will continue to have a very incorrect idea of the situation, programmed into you by neocon liberal propaganda.


But I have one question: Why do you want Russia to be the enemy of America? The cold war ended in 1991.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 08, 2017, 01:51:38 AM

At the moment Russia still has the edge militarily.


Aurata you know I'm with you on the whole anti-Russian hysteria and the fact that the U.S. is just as dirty and has been antagonizing, so I hope you'll listen when I say this-

The U.S. is at least one order of magnitude stronger than Russia militarily.

First up I meant in terms of nuclear capability.

Quote
Russia has 1,735 strategic warheads deployed on 521 ICBMs, SLBMs, and strategic bombers, and 2,700 non-deployed strategic and deployed and non-deployed tactical warheads, and 3,200 additional warheads are awaiting dismantlement.

The United States has 1,481 strategic nuclear warheads deployed on 741 ICBMs, SLBMs, and strategic bombers, and 2,570 non-deployed strategic warheads, and roughly 500 deployed and non-deployed tactical warheads, and approximately 2,500 warheads retired and awaiting dismantlement.
http://theduran.com/russia-vs-the-us-who-has-the-stronger-military/ (http://theduran.com/russia-vs-the-us-who-has-the-stronger-military/)

So Russia is clearly superior.

Secondly, talking conventional warfare is irrelevant...because any war with Russia would quickly go nuclear.

And Russia has promised it will never again fight a conventional war on its own soil. In fact Putin has kept making these kind of statements but the idiots in Washington ignore him. That is how stupid the neo-con leadership in Washington is.


But lets entertain your idea that both sides would keep their hands off the nukes.

The scenario we would be looking at is an American invasion of Russia (because unlike the US,  Russia isn't threatening anyone). In that case, you wouldn't have a hope. Lets see..you can't even defeat a few Taliban with AK-47's, but you think you can take Russia?

First off, the numbers are pretty meaningless given tge rekatively small gap. At that point you're talking diminishing returns. Do you think those extra 200 are going to make a big difference.

Second, you are making a classic mistake in comparing guerilla warfare to conventional warfare between armies.

The USSR didnt do so well in Afghanistan either. And Syria and Ukraine spasm onward.

The Russian military is just flat out not as capable as the U.S. military. That's okay. Nothing wrong with that being the case or admitting to it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 08, 2017, 03:45:11 AM
Yeah whatever. The peaceful transition of power which is NOT happening, is indefensible.

Trump has tanks. Revolutionaries want to take the government from the rightful elected president? Come get some. :azn:
Yes, good idea. Because Tiananmen Square worked out so very well for the Chinese.


(https://i.cbc.ca/1.2660668.1401547301!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/4x3_620/iconic-protests.jpg)

Not that I'm defending it but those soldiers and tanks combined with the suppression of the event through the state controlled media played out surprisingly well for the regime. It's incredible the number of 20 something Chinese students who have no knowledge what so ever of these events. Obliviously those that do are reluctant to expand on them at great length.

+1 There were no lasting negative consequences for the regime. The protests would not have been so strong had the Chinese economy not been struggling with high inflation.  To a lot of the protestors, "democracy" was the solution because they saw democratic nations such as the USA and much of Europe doing well. They were not committed to a democractic society. We have not seen protests on that scale since because we haven't seen comparable economic struggles in China since 1989.

The Gate of Heavenly Peace was an interesting documentary about the protests. A professor mentioned what he saw when students took a vote on a proposed action. Some students wanted those who opposed the motion thrown out of the lecture hall.
Sorry snowflakes but I am 43 years old, left leaning and I voted for Donald Trump, which marks the first time I voted for a republican.  I blame your college professors for making you so intolerant and incapable of understanding that not everyone shares the same political opinions you do.  Might want to venture outside the echo chamber kids.   Kisses darlings! :)

WTF? I highlight an example of intolerance of different opinions and yet you get the completely opposite conclusion? I think you need to crawl out your own echo chamber first before lecturing others. Once you see the full picture you'll realise that making assumptions about somebody's age and education are dumb in the extreme when you can't even read their comments in full.

I suspect the point that TylerDurden was trying to make is that he respects illogical incoherence buttressed by emotive racial allegiances ahead of anything else.  Hence what you or any other poster may have contributed to the discussion is of little consequence or relevance to his deranged mental afflictions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urwlA8kPGt4) as he put finger to keyboard.

Furthermore, to attempt to engage in any meaningful discourse with said poster would be an exercise in extreme futility.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on March 08, 2017, 08:07:26 AM
Leading Putin Critic Warns of Xenophobic Conspiracy Theories Drowning U.S. Discourse and Helping Trump

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/leading-putin-critic-warns-of-xenophobic-conspiracy-theories-drowning-u-s-discourse-and-helping-trump/

Mandatory reading from the great Glenn Greenwald.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: TylerDurden on March 08, 2017, 09:24:07 AM
Leading Putin Critic Warns of Xenophobic Conspiracy Theories Drowning U.S. Discourse and Helping Trump

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/leading-putin-critic-warns-of-xenophobic-conspiracy-theories-drowning-u-s-discourse-and-helping-trump/

Mandatory reading from the great Glenn Greenwald.
You nailed it Adel.  That is, you are a prime example of the sort of 'snowflakes' many of us refer to when it comes to political discourse.  I'm disappointed however.  You didn't call me a 'racist' or an 'Islamaphobe', which is a sure sign that even the most fainthearted, illiberal, self appointed guardians of public morality that Western universities produce are beginning to see that such accusations have no merit and do not win arguements.  Congrats dear.  :)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 08, 2017, 09:54:45 AM
Leading Putin Critic Warns of Xenophobic Conspiracy Theories Drowning U.S. Discourse and Helping Trump

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/leading-putin-critic-warns-of-xenophobic-conspiracy-theories-drowning-u-s-discourse-and-helping-trump/

Mandatory reading from the great Glenn Greenwald.
You nailed it Adel.  That is, you are a prime example of the sort of 'snowflakes' many of us refer to when it comes to political discourse.  I'm disappointed however.  You didn't call me a 'racist' or an 'Islamaphobe', which is a sure sign that even the most fainthearted, illiberal, self appointed guardians of public morality that Western universities produce are beginning to see that such accusations have no merit and do not win arguements.  Congrats dear.  :)

Quod erat demonstrandum!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: DMZabductee on March 08, 2017, 10:14:38 AM
Leading Putin Critic Warns of Xenophobic Conspiracy Theories Drowning U.S. Discourse and Helping Trump

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/leading-putin-critic-warns-of-xenophobic-conspiracy-theories-drowning-u-s-discourse-and-helping-trump/

Mandatory reading from the great Glenn Greenwald.
You nailed it Adel.  That is, you are a prime example of the sort of 'snowflakes' many of us refer to when it comes to political discourse.  I'm disappointed however.  You didn't call me a 'racist' or an 'Islamaphobe', which is a sure sign that even the most fainthearted, illiberal, self appointed guardians of public morality that Western universities produce are beginning to see that such accusations have no merit and do not win arguements.  Congrats dear.  :)

You know Tyler, you're the only person I've seen in awhile who still uses buzzwords like "snowflake" un-ironically. Maybe you should go back to university cause you only seem capable of producing the same half-baked, one-note argument every time you post.

And ffs quote the correct person if you're gonna respond to someone.  :smiley:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 08, 2017, 02:39:57 PM
Seems like wikileaks caused a bit of damage again  :cry:

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 08, 2017, 03:40:43 PM
Seems like wikileaks caused a bit of damage again  :cry:

First Trump calls out creepy Obama, then loads more evidence.

NOW 100% CHANCE OBAMA SPIED ON TRUMP.

That much is settled.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on March 08, 2017, 03:43:17 PM
Seems like wikileaks caused a bit of damage again  :cry:

First Trump calls out creepy Obama, then loads more evidence.

NOW 100% CHANCE OBAMA SPIED ON TRUMP.

That much is settled.

Source please.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 08, 2017, 03:46:32 PM
Source please.

Common sense.

Legal proceedings will follow, but just like with Clinton judgements are made in the minds of the American people. He's done.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on March 08, 2017, 03:50:54 PM
Source please.

Common sense.

Legal proceedings will follow, but just like with Clinton judgements are made in the minds of the American people. He's done.

It's possible, but without a source (even an anonymous one) I say BS as this goofball often quotes fake news with no sources (Trump I mean not you).
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 08, 2017, 04:12:29 PM
There's as much a link between Obama and spying on Trump as there is Trump being in bed with the Russians- that is to say a lot of innuendo, circumstance, coincidence, and little in the way of hard evidence as well as denials by most parties involved that either has taken place.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 08, 2017, 04:59:24 PM
There's as much a link between Obama and spying on Trump as there is Trump being in bed with the Russians- that is to say a lot of innuendo, circumstance, coincidence, and little in the way of hard evidence as well as denials by most parties involved that either has taken place.

No, what Trump does is just make sh!t up.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 08, 2017, 05:17:34 PM

No, what Trump does is just make sh!t up.

From what I can tell, they are all making sh!t up.  And given that there's no legit news media left in the States, all of the party lies are being fed to the general populace as being true. 

One day, Americans will wake up and clean their house of any and all corruption.  Actually, no - I doubt that will ever happen.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 08, 2017, 06:25:07 PM
One day, Americans will wake up and clean their house of any and all corruption.  Actually, no - I doubt that will ever happen.

Umm, that was the whole point of Trump, to send someone in there to smash everything to pieces, because it's all lies. And that is what he is doing. Trump knows all about lying, and he's probably a psychopath, which is what you need. In the hands of master strategist Bannon, Trump is a serious weapon of destruction.

Once it is destroyed, you can build something new. But for years it's going to be internal war against the media, intelligence agencies, liberal corporate drones, lobbyists, etc.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 12:23:29 AM
Do you think those extra 200 are going to make a big difference.

its not so much the numbers but the superior technology and what it can do.

Quote
it is expected that the missile will have the ability to place the warhead in a suborbital trajectory (shorter than the circular orbit that is off-limits under the international agreement) and strike from literally anywhere, even from the South Pole. It forces the suspected enemy to build an integrated missile-defense system, which is extremely expensive, even for the United States. Moreover, the warheads will enter the atmosphere at hypersonic speed and move along a larger trajectory, maneuvering at a speed of 7 to 7.5 kilometers per second. Time of pre-launch preparation of the missile will be kept to a minimum: less than one minute after receiving the order.

Russia also has the mysterious RS-26 Rubezh. Not much information is available, but apparently it is a modification of the PS-24 Yars, with the ability to strike at intercontinental and medium range. Its minimum firing range is reportedly two thousand kilometers, which is enough to defeat the American missile-defense system in Europe. The United States opposes it, on the grounds that deploying the RS-26 is a violation of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. But this claim does not stand up to criticism: the RS-26’s maximum firing range exceeds six thousand kilometers, which means that it is in fact an ICBM, not an IRBM.


Given the evidence, the United States lags far behind Russia in the development of land-based ICBMs. The United States has one, to be fair very outmoded, ICBM: the Minuteman III, capable of carrying only one warhead, and the prospects of developing a replacement are very indistinct. In Russia, the situation could not be more different. Land-based ICBMs are being renewed on a regular basis—in fact, the process of developing new missiles never really ends. Each new ICBM is designed to penetrate missile-defense systems, which makes the EuroPRO project and Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (the U.S. antiballistic system for intercepting incoming warheads) ineffective against Russia in the foreseeable future. http://nationalinterest.org/feature/these-russian-nukes-are-better-americas-15926?page=2 (http://nationalinterest.org/feature/these-russian-nukes-are-better-americas-15926?page=2)

Its a similar story with the conventional weapons. Yes, the US has more absolute numbers of vehicles and bombs, but they are less advanced than Russia.

I know that the American psyche cannot stand to think it is inferior to anyone in the world in anything...but...reality is tough. Its ok to admit it. No biggie.



Anyhow I can see we aren't going to agree on this.. so, can we return to my original question?


If you were Russia, would you strike first or wait to be attacked?

because everything America is doing, and has done since the Clinton administration- blatantly sends the message that... they are readying to attack Russia.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 12:38:33 AM
From what I can tell, they are all making sh!t up.  And given that there's no legit news media left in the States, all of the party lies are being fed to the general populace as being true. 

One day, Americans will wake up and clean their house of any and all corruption.  Actually, no - I doubt that will ever happen.

Quote
Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman to CNN: ‘Stop Spreading Lies and Fake News’

March 03, 2017 "Information Clearing House" -  "iBankCoin" - Russia’s outspoken foreign ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, had some choice words for CNN — after being confronted by their reporters over the AG Sessions’ hysteria. In a prepared statement, she called the event ‘media vandalism’ and a ‘disgrace’ — suggesting the US media is down in the depths of depravity and deceit.

She stated the American media had “cross(ed) the line far beyond the professional ethics and their competence. They accuse and judge by simply fabricating false information.”


“I have a question: is it rock bottom, which the US media has reached, or is there an even greater depth for them to dive?” Zakharova said.

“The things that the US media affords itself to report are just an attempt at… a total disinformation of the public in America and worldwide,” Zakharova explained, adding the US audience is, of course, the main target.

During the exchange, which was caught on camera and posted below, she laid into CNN — asking them to ‘stop spreading lies and fake news.’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWFhCh5Vs8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWFhCh5Vs8)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46590.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46590.htm)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zorq on March 09, 2017, 05:10:31 AM

If you were Russia, would you strike first or wait to be attacked?

because everything America is doing, and has done since the Clinton administration- blatantly sends the message that... they are readying to attack Russia.

Huh? That's how MAD works. That's how MAD has always worked. If at any time a nuclear player is NOT ready to launch an attack they risk getting attacked.

That's also why MAD will continue working. Russia will wait for an attack to happen because attacking first means their total destruction.   The only way to win the game of Nuclear War is not to play. Go watch the 80's movie War Games.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 09, 2017, 10:37:23 AM

Its a similar story with the conventional weapons. Yes, the US has more absolute numbers of vehicles and bombs, but they are less advanced than Russia.

I know that the American psyche cannot stand to think it is inferior to anyone in the world in anything...but...reality is tough. Its ok to admit it. No biggie.



Anyhow I can see we aren't going to agree on this.. so, can we return to my original question?


If you were Russia, would you strike first or wait to be attacked?

because everything America is doing, and has done since the Clinton administration- blatantly sends the message that... they are readying to attack Russia.

Sir Aurata, Duke of Rutland, Esq. reverting back to anti-American Loyal Russki Cold Warrior mode, just as the Russian media gets tired of Trump and starts reveling in American instability caused by Trump, because it's the only thing that brings enjoyment to a Russian's vodka-soaked misery.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/donald-trump-russia-media-235755

Kremlin-controlled news outlets used to root for Donald Trump’s election. Now they’re reveling in the chaos and division of his early presidency.

“Sessions Scandal: ‘U.S Headed to Constitutional Crisis,’” reads a March 3 headline on the website of the Kremlin-funded English-language network RT.

“Immigrants See American Dream Fade in Wake of Surge in Hate Crimes,” Sputnik News, another English language outlet bankrolled by the Kremlin, reported the same day.

“America is in the grips of hatred,” the Russian television commentator Dmitry Kiselyov told viewers of the Rossiya 1 network on Sunday night. The popular host, appointed directly by Russian President Vladimir Putin, suggested the political discord could lead to violence in gun-friendly America — “a dangerous combination with free-flowing firearms,” he said.

It’s not that the Kremlin-controlled outlets which all but explicitly rooted for Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton last fall have changed their view of the New York mogul. It’s that Moscow’s main goal was always to undermine the U.S. political system, regardless of who is in the White House, experts said.

“The Russian government is savoring the severe damage to America’s international image as a result of the tumultuous first weeks of the Trump administration’s tenure,” said Andrew Weiss, a former Clinton White House National Security Council official for Russian affairs.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 12:13:50 PM
Huh? That's how MAD works. The only way to win the game of Nuclear War is not to play.

Its not as simple as you think.

Washington is building a missile shield and launchers in countries bordering Russia that when completed will eliminate the Russian defence, and also be able to strike Russian targets in only 5 minutes. Once that is in place, Russia will be rendered defenceless.

Do you think Russia will wait for that to happen?

Your leaders are putting you on a path to war with Russia. Putin has spoken about this danger over and over, they do not even report his comments in the western media.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 09, 2017, 12:25:58 PM
Huh? That's how MAD works. The only way to win the game of Nuclear War is not to play.

Its not as simple as you think.

Washington is building a missile shield and launchers in countries bordering Russia that when completed will eliminate the Russian defence, and also be able to strike Russian targets in only 5 minutes. Once that is in place, Russia will be rendered defenceless.

Do you think Russia will wait for that to happen?

Your leaders are putting you on a path to war with Russia. Putin has spoken about this danger over and over, they do not even report his comments in the western media.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo)
I disagree with you about the purpose and capabilities of NATO's anti-missile programme in Europe, but I do agree that American politics seem to be promoting conflict with Russia (and vice versa). It's the same old brinksmanship that the world suffered through during the cold-war era. I had hoped that they had progressed beyond that, and for a while it seemed like they had. But now all this. :sad:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 09, 2017, 12:26:38 PM
Your leaders are putting you on a path to war with Russia.
Didn't you say you are really from Florida? They are your leaders too buddy.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 09, 2017, 01:28:57 PM

its not so much the numbers but the superior technology and what it can do.

Its a similar story with the conventional weapons. Yes, the US has more absolute numbers of vehicles and bombs, but they are less advanced than Russia.

I know that the American psyche cannot stand to think it is inferior to anyone in the world in anything...but...reality is tough. Its ok to admit it. No biggie.


That it may be able to defeat ABM systems or be more MIRVd is irrelevant. Without an anti-missile system of its own that is of the quality of the U.S. system, you still end up at MAD. Anyways, its not like this is beyond the capability of the U.S., rather its a pretty inefficient and politically unpopular program for the U.S. to pursue.

When factoring in NATO, whatever marginal (and it is very marginal) edge Russia may or may not have with tanks or artillery, is more than made up for by the combined weight of the U.S., France, Spain, Britain, Italy, Germany, the Dutch, and Poland.

Also while Russia's high end systems may or may not be superior (the acid test of combat will determine that), this does not necessarily filter down into the bulk of ground or air units.

But again, the big gap is in logistics, command and control, battlefield management, information warfare, electronic warfare, and all those things. The glue of war.

Put it this way- Putin would trade his military for the U.S. military in a heartbeat. Anyone who thinks or says otherwise is a fool.

Quote
If you were Russia, would you strike first or wait to be attacked?

because everything America is doing, and has done since the Clinton administration- blatantly sends the message that... they are readying to attack Russia.

If I were Russia I'd largely be doing what they are doing now which is to defend their core interests, develop cost effective and asymmetric threats and counters, and try and do something about this NeoConNeoLib wave that wants to crush all before it because its clear that the Bush-Clintonites want to bring Russia to its knees.

I disagree with you about the purpose and capabilities of NATO's anti-missile programme in Europe, but I do agree that American politics seem to be promoting conflict with Russia (and vice versa). It's the same old brinksmanship that the world suffered through during the cold-war era. I had hoped that they had progressed beyond that, and for a while it seemed like they had. But now all this. :sad:

Hopefully Trump or someone like LePen can put a stop to this nonsense. Unfortunately the anti-Trump people are such gullible saps because of their Trump hate that they're lapping this stuff up.

For a bunch of people who rant about his supporters being easily conned, they sure have gone with this whole Russia angle without an ounce of thought or questioning.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 09, 2017, 01:39:39 PM
Hopefully Trump or someone like LePen can put a stop to this nonsense. Unfortunately the anti-Trump people are such gullible saps because of their Trump hate that they're lapping this stuff up.
I think that this really illustrates the problem with 2-party politics: because you dislike the crap that party A promotes, you're automatically stuck supporting the crap that party B is running with. And if they're both garbage then you're just SOL. :sad:

While the governments of many European countries have their own issues (they can be pretty bloated), at least they have something that approximates real democracy: one can honestly pick and choose from a smorgasbord of platforms.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 01:43:23 PM
but I do agree that American politics seem to be promoting conflict with Russia (and vice versa). It's the same old brinksmanship that the world suffered through during the cold-war era.

The cold war was safer though because both sides worked to reduce tensions and build trust.

Nowadays the opposite is happening: you have the US constantly deliberately ramping up tensions and provocations.

During the cold war there were numerous false alarms. Moments when someone could've pushed the button. But common sense prevailed because there was not a climate of distrust.

False alarms are inevitable. They can be caused by something as small as a faulty chip. The only difference is now the western media have manufactured a climate of fear and anti-russian hysteria in the west.  ie nonsense propaganda 'Putin is the new Hitler, Russia is invading, Russia is about to invade' etc etc. Simultaneously nonstop western victimization of Russia as well as nato troop buildups along Russian borders are sending the message that Washington wants war. So if there is a false alarm, people are now more likely to assume it is real.

The potential for accidents and misunderstandings has increased: there are no longer all those channels of communication between Washington and Moscow that operated in the 50's and 60's. The neocons have done everything to shut down communication with Russia. All that exists is Washington fabricating lies and provocations.



Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 09, 2017, 02:02:48 PM
The cold war was safer though because both sides worked to reduce tensions and build trust.

Nowadays the opposite is hapenning: you have the US constantly deliberately ramping up tensions and provocations.
I'm not sure if it was safer. I think it was an explosively (pun!) dangerous situation that was managed and ultimately reduced through vast amounts of effort. The whole capitalist/communist war of ideologies was pretty viscous -- true believers are always the most dangerous.

     Sure, nowadays we're heading back to conflict, but I feel that it's a conflict driven more by the desire for wealth, influence, and power. While I agree that the world isn't exactly in a safe place with Russia and the States back at each other's throats, I feel that there is more potential for a non-violent resolution for a conflict driven by greed than for one driven by ideology.

 The players might be the same (ish), but their roles have changed: they're now merchants, not fundamentalists.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 09, 2017, 02:13:10 PM
While the governments of many European countries have their own issues (they can be pretty bloated), at least they have something that approximates real democracy: one can honestly pick and choose from a smorgasbord of platforms.

Not every Democrat is the same. Not every Republican is the same. Some are centrists. Some are mavericks. They are all over the political spectrum.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 09, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
White House is now confirming that there is no evidence of any wiretapping of Trump.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/politics/white-house-trump-wiretap-obama.html

I guess the usual Trumptrolls will no be claiming that Trump himself and Shawn Spicy are "fake news" so they don't have to explain why they were disagreeing with reality.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 09, 2017, 02:23:52 PM
Not every Democrat is the same. Not every Republican is the same. Some are centrists. Some are mavericks. They are all over the political spectrum.
True, but you're still stuck with only 2 platforms come election time. Take this last election: How many Americans would have voted for either Hilary or Trump had there been 5 other parties, each with a realistic chance of being voted in?

I understand that this is almost reductio ad absurdum (http://www.futilitycloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/2007-02-02-reductio-ad-absurdum-1.jpg), but the current system needs work. A lot of work.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 09, 2017, 02:54:53 PM
White House is now confirming that there is no evidence of any wiretapping of Trump.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/politics/white-house-trump-wiretap-obama.html

No dude. The NYT is NOT a credible source of information. These are the innuendo-crew who said there was a Trump wire tap. Now they say there was no wire tap. Thus proving themselves fake news. The end.

(http://static.snopes.com/app/uploads/2017/03/new-york-times-wiretap.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 09, 2017, 03:01:12 PM
True, but you're still stuck with only 2 platforms come election time.

Trump/Bannon are alt right.

The "two" parties morph over time to take any shape they want. This isn't "republican", a weird third party gained support and actually got in.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 09, 2017, 03:22:15 PM
True, but you're still stuck with only 2 platforms come election time.

Trump/Bannon are alt right.

The "two" parties morph over time to take any shape they want. This isn't "republican", a weird third party gained support and actually got in.
Yep.
And yet, when you get down to it, Duverger's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law) states that almost all first-past-the-post plurality-rule voting systems essentially lead to a two-party system.
This is definitely the case in the US: it was "Hilary or Trump", not "Hilary, Trump, or-that-other-bloke-who-seems-comparatively-reasonable".  :sad:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 04:07:33 PM
If I were Russia I'd largely be doing what they are doing now which is to defend their core interests, develop cost effective and asymmetric threats and counters, and try and do something about this NeoConNeoLib wave that wants to crush all before it because its clear that the Bush-Clintonites want to bring Russia to its knees.

A break up of the EU and NATO would break the power of the neo-con-lib-nwo-elites in Washington.

The EU is their puppet, it acts as a cover legitimising Washington's wars. Hence all these 'coalitions of the willing' they round up everytime they want to take over some poor country.

Maybe EU member states will realize the slavery they are in and vote to get out.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 09, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
This is definitely the case in the US: it was "Hilary or Trump", not "Hilary, Trump, or-that-other-bloke-who-seems-comparatively-reasonable".  :sad:

Hilary = much better than Trump...just as Gore = much better than George W. Bush. To say both candidates are equally bad is foolish.

Clinton is highly intelligent, very sane, and slow to act rash. The Russian propaganda slandered her and you guys fell for it though.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: madison79 on March 09, 2017, 05:06:07 PM
This is definitely the case in the US: it was "Hilary or Trump", not "Hilary, Trump, or-that-other-bloke-who-seems-comparatively-reasonable".  :sad:

Hilary = much better than Trump...just as Gore = much better than George W. Bush. To say both candidates are equally bad is foolish.

Clinton is highly intelligent, very sane, and slow to act rash. The Russian propaganda slandered her and you guys fell for it though.
Saying she is better than a crazy person isn't a compliment.  The problem with Hillary is that she is a corporate shill for big business.  The US needs people like Bernie. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 09, 2017, 05:12:46 PM
Are you kidding me? Clinton is less of a corporate shill for big business than Trump is. You think she would have pushed to cut the Environmental Protection Agency and increase military spending by 10% and build more nukes? And cut taxes on the upper 1%?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 09, 2017, 05:20:22 PM
Remember, Sanders endorsed Clinton over Trump.

So if you are a Sanders fan, Clinton more closely aligns with your values than Trump.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 09, 2017, 05:22:33 PM
Bernie Sanders: It is important to keep calling Donald Trump a liar

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-liar-important-vermont-democrat-senator-us-president-a7618871.html
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 09, 2017, 05:25:39 PM
This is definitely the case in the US: it was "Hilary or Trump", not "Hilary, Trump, or-that-other-bloke-who-seems-comparatively-reasonable".  :sad:

Hilary = much better than Trump...just as Gore = much better than George W. Bush. To say both candidates are equally bad is foolish.

Clinton is highly intelligent, very sane, and slow to act rash. The Russian propaganda slandered her and you guys fell for it though.

Her support for NAFTA, TPP, the Iraq War, Syrian intervention, and drone strikes was Russian propaganda?

Her mediocre and unaccomplished record in the Senate was a plus? How about her middling SecState record? What did she accomplish?

As far as temperment her covering up her health issues, her refusal to concede on election night and speak to supporters, and her stubborn refusal to listen to Bill and take Trump seriously says plenty.

Trump for all his bluster identified lines of attack that proved succesful, even when doubted, he changed managers when it was the right time, got better results with less money, ran to win rather than be popular, and carved out an electoral map that experts laughed at and is set to give the Republicans an electoral map edge even if they lose Arizona or Georgia next time around (offest by the Rust Belt+Minnesota, Maine, NH). He knew when to listen to Conway and Bannon.

Give him the Johnson vote and Clinton tge Stein vote and he takes NV, NH, MN, ME this year and VA, CO, and NM dont get called for Clinton till Wed. Nov. 9th.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 09, 2017, 05:28:52 PM
Clinton is less of a corporate shill for big business than Trump is.
The US needs people like Bernie.

Listen up kids, cause you need schooling. Bernie and Warren are wussies who talk about change, but can't make it happen. Hillary didn't even bother talking about change, as she knew it was impossible. Republicans are wussies. Libertarians are wussies.

Zero change is possible in the USA, because the country is under corporate control. Maximize profits okay, but anything else you want to do, the answer is no. You got to come with BIG GUNS READY FOR WAR if you want something done, and you will probably lose (which is why nobody has ever tried it).

Trump/Bannon are the only people to have tried it, and so far lived to tell about it. The mob demanded some stuff done on immigration, and anti-PC culture, and these things are actually very anti-profits. Now we see what happens when you do what the citizens want, you get attacked from all sides by the establishment. Corporate money moves to eliminated these guys, so it can continue forward with globalism, progressivism thought police, income inequality, majority group hate, and mass media brainwashing.

Dystopian liberal corporate hell. Please buy a clue!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 09, 2017, 05:46:46 PM
White House is now confirming that there is no evidence of any wiretapping of Trump.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/politics/white-house-trump-wiretap-obama.html

I guess the usual Trumptrolls will no be claiming that Trump himself and Shawn Spicy are "fake news" so they don't have to explain why they were disagreeing with reality.

I didn’t think I would come back to read this thread, but now that I did…….. 

First, the link posted by SaintsCanada is an excellent read.  If you haven’t already read it, you should. 

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/leading-putin-critic-warns-of-xenophobic-conspiracy-theories-drowning-u-s-discourse-and-helping-trump/

Second, as you read everything below remember we are talking about wiretapping in Trump Tower.  Here is a quote from Trump’s first Tweet at 6:35 on 4 March,

Quote
  “had my wires tapped in Trump Tower.” 
  http://www.businessinsider.com/r-trump-alleges-wire-tapping-by-obama-during-campaign-2017-3             

Does anyone believe that Trump does not think that all of Trump Tower is his?

Where does this mobile NY Times story state that the White House says there was no wiretapping at Trump Tower?  This is what I found it said.

Quote
  https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/politics/white-house-trump-wiretap-obama.html

WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”                   

For those that feel they have all the answers regarding wiretaps and Trump Tower because you have read the NY Times or Washington Post, I have some questions for which I cannot find all the answers.  If you have all the answers to the following questions, please post the links to your sources:

1.  Did General Flynn - formal National Security Advisor to President Trump - work at/in Trump Tower at any time during the campaign?

2.  Did Flynn use any telephones at Trump Tower?

3.  Which U.S. government agency wiretapped and recorded Flynn’s conversations? 

4. Was this U.S. government agency only recording the conversations of the Russian Ambassador to the U.S., and recorded Flynn unintentionally only during those conversations that took place in December 2016 - and decided to leak it anyways because such agency wants to hurt Trump? 

5.  Were there other conversations that were tapped and recorded prior to December 2016?  My understanding is that the information that was publically released covered conversations conducted in December 2016; however, was there surveillance before December, and if so, when this this surveillance begin?

6.  Did this U.S. government agency have legal authority to tap and record these conversations?   
 
7.  Did this U.S. government agency have the legal authority to release the information it collected to the U.S. media; such as to the Washington Post?

8. Did this U.S. government agency release all the information it collected, or has it only released the information that it believes could be used to hurt Trump?

9.  Whether it was Flynn or the Russian Ambassador who was being wiretapped, who signed off on the Flynn and/or Russian Ambassador wiretap?

10.  Before Trump sent his Tweets about the wiretap could Flynn have told Trump that he did use phones in the Trump Tower during the campaign?

From what I have read, the Flynn conversations that were released were made in December 2016.  I do know who was President at such time.

P.S.  For the real conspiracy buffs: Was it the Russian Ambassador/Putin who recorded the conversations and released the information??????








Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 09, 2017, 07:38:32 PM
This is definitely the case in the US: it was "Hilary or Trump", not "Hilary, Trump, or-that-other-bloke-who-seems-comparatively-reasonable".  :sad:
Hilary = much better than Trump...just as Gore = much better than George W. Bush. To say both candidates are equally bad is foolish.
Clinton is highly intelligent, very sane, and slow to act rash. The Russian propaganda slandered her and you guys fell for it though.
I didn't say they were equally bad. Just that they were both bad.
What's the old axiom?
'Whether the bear beats the wolf or the wolf beats the bear, the rabbit always loses.'
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 11:30:52 PM
When factoring in NATO, whatever marginal (and it is very marginal) edge Russia may or may not have with tanks or artillery, is more than made up for by the combined weight of the U.S., France, Spain, Britain, Italy, Germany, the Dutch, and Poland.


But you overlook that..

Quote
Because defense is easier than attack, most attacking military forces require a 3:1 superiority ratio to have a reasonable shot at victory. The current ratio in the Baltics is more than 4:1, and NATO forces on the ground field considerably less firepower than their Russian counterparts.

Quote
The Russian military could defeat NATO forces in the Baltics in just 60 hours
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21344/us-claims-russia-could-defeat-nato-in-60-hours/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21344/us-claims-russia-could-defeat-nato-in-60-hours/)


Quote
Russia Defeats America in Every NATO War Game Scenario

Since mid-2014 the Pentagon has run all manner of war games – as many as 16 times, under different scenarios – pitting NATO against Russia. All scenarios were favorable to NATO. All simulations yielded the same victor: Russia.”
http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2015/12/russia-defeats-america-in-every-nato-war-game-scenario-2459562.html (http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2015/12/russia-defeats-america-in-every-nato-war-game-scenario-2459562.html)

You don't seem to realize that Russia has massively rebuilt its military in the past decade due to Washington's threats.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 09, 2017, 11:54:57 PM
I'm not sure if it was safer. I think it was an explosively (pun!) dangerous situation that was managed and ultimately reduced through vast amounts of effort. The whole capitalist/communist war of ideologies was pretty viscous -- true believers are always the most dangerous.

     Sure, nowadays we're heading back to conflict, but I feel that it's a conflict driven more by the desire for wealth, influence, and power. While I agree that the world isn't exactly in a safe place with Russia and the States back at each other's throats, I feel that there is more potential for a non-violent resolution for a conflict driven by greed than for one driven by ideology.

 The players might be the same (ish), but their roles have changed: they're now merchants, not fundamentalists.


I think you have it the wrong way round.

Russia dropped the ideology. Communism is dead: the former driver of Marxist expansionism that characterized the wars of the 1970's and 80's has gone. Russia is pursuing the free market, it's priority is simply to build its economy.
When The US and its nato/ media puppets try to portray Russia as an expansionist imperialistic force, they are projecting.

 
Washington, on the other hand, is now gripped by a new ideology that has dictated all its foreign policy since the Clinton administration. That ideology is of American global hegemony. It makes naziism look tame. A globalist "new world order" with the American elite at the helm is what they have been working toward. This ideology is spelt out plainly in the Wolfowitz doctrine.

After the fall of the USSR, the neocons suddenly saw America as having the manifest destiny to dominate the world. The "indispensable people". Their aim became to increase their influence throughout the globe by whatever means necessary, to eliminate nation states and borders, to create more lebensraum for their corporations.

By this ideology, any country able to counter American domination is an enemy. Any country that wants to pursue its own national interest ahead of American interests, is an enemy. Any country that is not a vassal of Washington, is an enemy. And enemies are to have their governments overthrown by colour revolutions or their leaders framed by fake accusations...and replaced with US puppet governments. Or if that fails, simply invade them or destabilize them via proxy wars.

Maybe americans are beginning to realize the lies and greed that is at the heart of Washingtons neo-con ambitions. Theirs is a country now owned by the elite and their corporations, their neo-con partners in government: the globalists, the banksters and all their secret societies.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 10, 2017, 09:27:32 AM
White House is now confirming that there is no evidence of any wiretapping of Trump.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/politics/white-house-trump-wiretap-obama.html

No dude. The NYT is NOT a credible source of information. These are the innuendo-crew who said there was a Trump wire tap. Now they say there was no wire tap. Thus proving themselves fake news. The end.

(http://static.snopes.com/app/uploads/2017/03/new-york-times-wiretap.jpg)

Ok so you are literally saying that Sean Spicer reading from a piece of paper is fake news. You guys just can't handle that you've been wildly whining about wiretaps for days now, and now you've suddenly been completely hoodwinked by your precious troll presidency.

WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 10, 2017, 09:32:46 AM
When factoring in NATO, whatever marginal (and it is very marginal) edge Russia may or may not have with tanks or artillery, is more than made up for by the combined weight of the U.S., France, Spain, Britain, Italy, Germany, the Dutch, and Poland.


But you overlook that..

Quote
Because defense is easier than attack, most attacking military forces require a 3:1 superiority ratio to have a reasonable shot at victory. The current ratio in the Baltics is more than 4:1, and NATO forces on the ground field considerably less firepower than their Russian counterparts.

Quote
The Russian military could defeat NATO forces in the Baltics in just 60 hours
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21344/us-claims-russia-could-defeat-nato-in-60-hours/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21344/us-claims-russia-could-defeat-nato-in-60-hours/)


Quote
Russia Defeats America in Every NATO War Game Scenario

Since mid-2014 the Pentagon has run all manner of war games – as many as 16 times, under different scenarios – pitting NATO against Russia. All scenarios were favorable to NATO. All simulations yielded the same victor: Russia.”
http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2015/12/russia-defeats-america-in-every-nato-war-game-scenario-2459562.html (http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2015/12/russia-defeats-america-in-every-nato-war-game-scenario-2459562.html)

You don't seem to realize that Russia has massively rebuilt its military in the past decade due to Washington's threats.

You're talking about a Baltics war scenario rather than a general conflict between NATO and Russia. That's a different matter. That's not just about military capability but also surprise, terrain, etc.

3:1 may not necessarily hold true anymore given advances in technology as the 3:1 ratio is a holdover from the days of the rifled musket. It might still hold true but it hasn't been truly tested for some time.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 10, 2017, 12:26:56 PM
... The players might be the same (ish), but their roles have changed: they're now merchants, not fundamentalists.
I think you have it the wrong way round.

Russia dropped the ideology. Communism is dead: the former driver of Marxist expansionism that characterized the wars of the 1970's and 80's has gone. Russia is pursuing the free market, it's priority is simply to build its economy.
Well yes, that what I said. Apologies if I wasn't being clear.

Interesting that you see the current American push towards globalism/hegemony etc as an ideology. I hadn't really thought of it that way.

I consider it basically as what every other country is trying to do, only more so. Countries whose primary concern is politicking for influence and money can usually be negotiated with, and I don't think that the superpowers of the present -- any of them -- are beyond trading a little of that for a little of this.
Political extremism back in the 20th century was a lot like religious fundamentalism: it was "my way or the highway".
We might be heading back to that with the increasing polarization we're seeing now, but we're not there yet. Hopefully the current trend can be curbed soon by someone sane.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 10, 2017, 01:52:24 PM
White House is now confirming that there is no evidence of any wiretapping of Trump.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/politics/white-house-trump-wiretap-obama.html


Ok so you are literally saying that Sean Spicer reading from a piece of paper is fake news. You guys just can't handle that you've been wildly whining about wiretaps for days now, and now you've suddenly been completely hoodwinked by your precious troll presidency.

WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”


I still cannot find in this Mobile NY Times article where it states that at this press briefing the White House said there was no wiretapping at Trump Tower. 

Let’s do a quick review of some of the information that is out there, and to try and be fair I will use articles from various sources…….

1.  9 March: The Justice department refuses to deny or confirm that there was/is an investigation involving Trump or Trump Tower.  See first quote below.

2. As reported on 6 March, the FBI had an “incredulous: reaction to Trump’s Tweets about Trump Tower being wiretapped.  See the second quote below.

3.  9 March: It is now being reported that the FBI admits that in October it did tap a server that was connected to Trump Tower., but of course they did not read any emails or listen to any phone conversations…….See the third quote below. There are two links here.  The CNN story says there is NO Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant on the server, and that the FBI had no comment; however, the CNS link says that there was a warrant, but it does not say if it was a regular warrant or a FISA warrant.

So what will be revealed, admitted to, leaked, or compelled out next regarding the Trump Tower and wiretaps????? 

All of my previously posted questions regarding the Trump Tower wiretap still stand?

Quote
First:

Justice Dept. Declines to Back Claim Trump Is Not Under Investigation

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justice-dept-declines-to-back-claim-trump-is-not-under-investigation/ar-AAo4OYm?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=LENDHP

The New York Times
By ERIC LICHTBLAU 4 hrs ago

WASHINGTON — With questions still swirling over President Trump’s unsubstantiated claims that he was wiretapped on orders of President Barack Obama, the Justice Department on Thursday declined to confirm statements a day earlier from the White House that Mr. Trump was not the target of a counterintelligence investigation………

Second:
 
FBI head ‘incredulous’ at Trump wiretapping tweets: report

By Mark Hensch - 03/06/17 03:57 PM EST
 
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/fbi/322555-fbi-head-incredulous-at-trump-tweets-report

Third:
A.  FBI Monitored Server in Trump Tower, But ‘No Intercepts of Trump’s Phones or Emails’

By Craig Bannister | March 9, 2017 | 11:36 AM EST

 http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/report-fbi-monitored-trump-server-no-intercepts-trumps-phones-or-emails

The FBI briefly monitored a computer server in Trump, but found nothing illegal, according to a report by Circa.com that cites unnamed sources.

According to both Circa’s video and text reports, the officials say the FBI was checking to see if there were any suspicious computer communications with a Russian bank:
“Sources tell Circa that FBI counter-intelligence officials briefly monitored a computer server in Trump Tower at the end of the election last October, but it was part of a broader probe into Russian efforts to influence the election.”

“The brief counter-intelligence operation yielded no evidence of criminal activity by anyone on Team Trump.”  What’s more, the FBI did not intercept any phone conversations or emails:
“Officials stressed there were no intercepts of Trump’s phones or email.

The FBI obtained a court order before undertaking the operation, Circa reports……

B.  Sources: FBI investigation continues into 'odd' computer link between Russian bank and Trump Organization

By Pamela Brown and Jose Pagliery, CNN

Updated 2244 GMT (0644 HKT) March 9, 2017

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

Sources: FBI investigates 'odd' computer link 08:27

(CNN)Federal investigators and computer scientists continue to examine whether there was a computer server connection between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank, sources close to the investigation tell CNN.

Questions about the possible connection were widely dismissed four months ago. But the FBI's investigation remains open, the sources said, and is in the hands of the FBI's counterintelligence team -- the same one looking into Russia's suspected interference in the 2016 election.

One U.S. official said investigators find the server relationship "odd" and are not ignoring it. But the official said there is still more work for the FBI to do. Investigators have not yet determined whether a connection would be significant.

The server issue surfaced again this weekend, mentioned in a Breitbart article that, according to a White House official, sparked President Trump's series of tweets accusing investigators of tapping his phone.

CNN is told there was no Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant on the server.
The FBI declined to comment. The White House did not respond to a request for comment.
                     
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 10, 2017, 02:11:52 PM
Interesting that you see the current American push towards globalism/hegemony etc as an ideology. I hadn't really thought of it that way.6

Google 'Wolfowitz doctrine'. Its what all White house administrations have been operating by since the early 90's.

Once you understand the goals behind the neocons, a lot of US foreign policy actions suddenly make sense.

Quote
I consider it basically as what every other country is trying to do, only more so.

Excuses excuses. No, most countries aren't trying to take over and subvert all other governments to their agenda.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 10, 2017, 07:12:16 PM
WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 10, 2017, 07:43:01 PM
WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”


Has Trump called the FBI yet...to you know..ask them....because he is the President. Or does he wait until "news" pops up on Breitbart or his Twitter feed.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 10, 2017, 09:17:41 PM
'Trump lies all the time': Bernie Sanders indicts president's assault on democracy

Bernie Sanders has launched a withering attack on Donald Trump, accusing him of being a pathological liar who is driving America towards authoritarianism.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/10/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-lies-democracy
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: weigookin74 on March 10, 2017, 11:09:33 PM
The establishment and elites of both parties want him to fail.  Also, his people are not all appointed.  Some of the people he has appointed from the establishment may have to eventually leave.  It's not easy to fight the system when the whole system is either all or mostly against you.  All I can say is many men wouldn't have the stomach to take on the system and many weaker men would have caved or buckled under pressure from all the nasty and mean spirited personal attacks.  He's taken a lot of abuse and a lot of hate.  We've never seen someone so tough to stand up to it in our lives.  The closest might have been Ronald Reagan, but the attacks and scrutiny he had to endure was light compared to what this President has had to endure.  The elites have been stirred up and they're angry.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 10, 2017, 11:31:29 PM
Bernie Sanders is an establishment elite?
Title: Special needs students
Post by: Adel on March 11, 2017, 02:01:05 AM

I still cannot find in this Mobile NY Times article where it states that at this press briefing the White House said there was no wiretapping at Trump Tower. 
         

Quote from: MayorHaggar
WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower. It's a lot like dealing with a special needs student in your class.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”

Don't you get it?

You need to understand the dissonance of the Trump cult apologia here. For them there isn't a contradiction in the following statement.

Quote
The report ruled out Trump being investigated but not a wire tapp[sic] of his building.

When one can't a make connection between notion of an investigation of an individual and the means by which that investigation takes place on the property of that individual then, in the mind of Trump cultist, there is plausible deniability. It's kind of like dealing with a special needs student. In this case highlighting the text or enlarging the font size might not work. You'll probably need to get out the crayons and use some pictures. I'd have a go at it myself but I've knocked off for the day.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 11, 2017, 02:06:20 AM
WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”


Can you use a bigger font?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 11, 2017, 06:00:54 AM
Can you use a bigger font?

Can you admit Trump is worse than Clinton?

...maybe not...your head would explode...
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 11, 2017, 06:09:06 AM
Why does WikiLeaks never have anything bad to say about the Republicans or Russia?

Why aren't Donald Trump's finances public knowledge? Why are his tax returns a mystery?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 11, 2017, 07:47:59 AM
WASHINGTON — White House officials declared on Wednesday that President Trump was not the target of an investigation, five days after Mr. Trump himself raised the prospect with an unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.

But after an aide slipped Mr. Spicer a note, he circled back to clarify that “there is no reason to believe there is any type of investigation with respect to the Department of Justice.”



Based on this logic then the Watergate break-in must have been part of an official investigation……

Or, if there is no official investigation then the break-in never happened, right?  Or, did they have a search warrant?

Also, remember we are talking about the wiretapping of Trump Tower.  See Trump’s Tweets. 

And, what about Justice refusing to say that there is no investigation?

And, what about this server?

My wiretapping questions still stand.

http://www.waygook.org/index.php/topic,104010.220.html
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 11, 2017, 03:01:58 PM
I didn't say they were equally bad. Just that they were both bad.
What's the old axiom?
'Whether the bear beats the wolf or the wolf beats the bear, the rabbit always loses.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOkBnYGfIM
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 11, 2017, 05:24:00 PM
Interesting analysis of the 2016 campaign.  Some excerpts:

Quote
2016 Election Study Published

Wesleyan Media Project shares lessons, analysis from 2016 election cycle

http://mediaproject.wesleyan.edu/blog/2016-election-study-published/

(MIDDLETOWN, CT) March 6, 2017 – The 2016 presidential campaign broke the mold when it comes to patterns of political advertising. But, in a new publication, the Wesleyan Media Project directors say “Not so fast” to those who argue that advertising no longer matters in elections.

The article published in The Forum: A Journal of Applied Research in Contemporary Politics (open access through mid-April 2017) shows that the presidential race featured far less advertising than the previous cycle, a huge imbalance in the number of ads across candidates, and one candidate who almost ignored discussions of policy. Yet, at the congressional level, political advertising appeared far more ordinary. The authors share lessons about advertising in the 2016 campaign, and argue that its seeming lack of effectiveness may owe to the unusual nature of the presidential campaign with one nonconventional candidate and the other using an unconventional message strategy.

Furthermore, the authors demonstrate that:

1) Clinton’s unexpected losses came in states in which she failed to air ads until the last week.

2) Clinton’s message was devoid of policy discussions in a way not seen in the previous four presidential contests. 

Other big lessons drawn in the paper include:
•   The impact of advertising may depend on the larger media environment and knowledge of the candidates. Ie. It’s much more difficult for advertising to have an impact in a media environment that is saturated with sensational media coverage of the campaign—and of two already well-known candidates—but that does not mean that all advertising fails to work.
•   Message matters, and a message repeated endlessly does no good unless it resonates with a sufficient number of the right voters. Team Clinton’s message that Trump was unfit for the presidency may not have been enough.
•   What happens at the presidential level does not always follow down ballot.


                       
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 11, 2017, 05:27:03 PM
I really do hope the media takes a look at itself.  This is a good read.

In addition, I do agree with his statement that what is happening politically today, although definitely thought-provoking, is not at the same level as we saw in 1968….

Quote
  “We have been down these roads before. I am not underplaying where we are at today, but historically, was there a time that makes right now look like a nice walk through Central Park, 1968, 1970, 1972,” he said.

NBC News chairman: ‘Big changes’ needed in coverage of polling
By Alex Weprin
03/08/17 03:08 PM EST

http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2017/03/nbc-news-chairman-big-changes-needed-in-coverage-of-polling-235835

NBC News chairman Andy Lack says that the news network is reevaluating how it covered the 2016 election, and plans to make significant changes to how it covers future elections. In particular, Lack cited problems with polling in many states and said that the lack of reporters in the field in states like Michigan and Ohio may have contributed to some of its mistakes.

“We didn’t get this election right, news organizations, we didn’t know that night how wrong or how close it was. I don’t know anyone who thought at 6 o’clock in the evening it was going to go down that way,” Lack said during an interview at the IESE Business School in New York on Wednesday…….       






                     
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 11, 2017, 06:03:02 PM
I really do hope the media takes a look at itself. 


The one-sided coverage of the election was no accident. Reflection by individual journalists will not fix it.


The problem is that mainstream media is owned by the oligarchs. 80+ % of American media outlets are have become concentrated into the hands of a tiny handful of elites. This was started by bill Clinton (another neocon).
It has become a propaganda ministry for the globalists.

The same shadowy elites have also corrupted the media of Europe. The BBC was bought off by EU to give a one-sided brexit coverage. They're still doing it. There is not a significant journalist in Europe that is not on the payroll of the CIA. If you don't believe me, read this for example:

Quote
Journalists for Hire: How the CIA buys the news
Dr. Udo Ulfkotte, a former editor for the German main daily newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ), has first hand knowledge of how the CIA and German Intelligence (BND) bribe journalists to write articles free of truth, facts, and with a decidedly pro-Western, pro-NATO bent or, in other words, propaganda. In his bestselling book Bought Journalists ("Gekaufte Journalisten"), Dr. Ulfkotte explains in great detail the workings of the US and NATO’s propaganda campaign and how a lack of compliance with it, on the part of a journalist, can cost a career. Dr. Ulfkotte also provides a wealth of names! Journalist for Hire: How the CIA Buys the News is the English translation of Dr. Ulfkotte’s bestselling book.
https://www.amazon.com/Journalists-Hire-How-Buys-News/dp/1944505458 (https://www.amazon.com/Journalists-Hire-How-Buys-News/dp/1944505458)

The author was recently found dead in mysterious circumstances.

Long-term, you can't really fight misinformation on such a large and persistent scale.

Nothing will change until Trump or someone manages to break the power of the media mafia.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 11, 2017, 06:40:38 PM
That's an interpretation.

He died of a heart attack.

Here are his words:

Quote
Q: According to what you’ve said, journalists are corrupted surreptitiously, by inviting them for all-expense-paid trips to the US. But do serious professionals really sell themselves for so little?

UU: When you fly to the US again and again and never have to pay for anything there, and you’re invited to interview American politicians, you’re moving closer and closer to the circles of power. And you want to remain within this circle of the elite, so you write to please them. Everyone wants to be a celebrity journalist who gets exclusive access to famous politicians.

Not exactly the same as being on the payroll of the CIA.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 11, 2017, 07:16:39 PM
I do love it when Aurata starts talking about "Oligarchs" and "Americans" in the same sentence but overlooks his Russian paymasters.

Oh and he used "mafia" and "misinformation", too. Are these not the Russians you are looking for?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 11, 2017, 08:17:19 PM
Here are his words:

Actually here are his words:

Watch the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGqi-k213eE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGqi-k213eE)

Quote
I’ve been a journalist for about 25 years, and I’ve been educated to lie, to betray, and not to tell the truth to the public. … The German and American media tries to bring war to the people in Europe, to bring war to Russia. This is a point of no return, and I am going to stand up and say … it is not right what I have done in the past, to manipulate people, to make propaganda against Russia, and it is not right what my colleagues do, and have done in the past, because they are bribed to betray the people not only in Germany, all over Europe. … I am very fearful of a new war in Europe, and I don’t like to have this situation again, because war is never coming from itself, there is always people who push for war, and this is not only politicians, it is journalists too. … We have betrayed our readers, just to push for war. … I don’t want this anymore, I’m fed up with this propaganda. We live in a banana republic, and not in a democratic country where we have press freedom. …


The German media, especially, my colleagues …, day by day, write against the Russians, [these journalists] who are in transatlantic organizations, and who are supported by the United States to do so. …

I became ‘honorary citizen of the state of Oklahoma,’ … Why? Because I write pro-American. I was supported by the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA. Why? Because I am pro-American. I am fed up with it; I don’t want to do it anymore; and so I have just written a book, not to earn money, no, it will cause a lot of trouble for me. [I wrote it instead] to give the people in this country, Germany, in Europe, and all over the world, just a glimpse of … what goes on behind the closed doors. …

[4:40 on the video] Most of the journalists you see in foreign countries … European or American journalists …, like me in the past, are so-called non-official cover. … Non-official cover means what? You do work for an intelligence agency, … but … when they [the public] find out that you are not only a journalist but a spy too, they [the CIA] will never say this was one of our guys. … So, I have helped them in several situations, and I feel ashamed for that. … I feel ashamed that I … was bribed by billionaires, I was bribed by the Americans, not to report exactly the truth. …

I was just imagining in my car while I was driving to this interview, I just try to work out in my brain what would have happened if I had written a pro-Russian article, in the Frankfurter Algemeine. Well, … we were all educated to write pro-European, pro-American, but please not pro-Russian. … But this is not what I understand for democracy, for press freedom, I am very sorry for that. …

[6:30] Germany is still a kind of a colony of the United States, you’ll see that in many points; like for example, the majority of Germany do not want to have nukes in our country, but we still have American nukes; so, we are still a kind of an American colony, and, being a colony, it is very easy to approach young journalists through (and what is very important here is) transatlantic organizations. All journalists from respected and big German newspapers, magazines, radio stations, TV stations, they are all members or guests of those big transatlantic organizations, and in these transatlantic organizations you are approached to be pro-American, and … they invite you for seeing the United States, they pay for that, they pay all your expenses and everything. So, you are bribed, you get more and more corrupt, because they make you good contacts.  … So, you make friends, you think they are your friends and cooperate with them. They ask you, ‘will you do me this favor,’ ‘will you do me that favor,’ so your brain is more and more brainwashed, through these guys. …

Is this only the case with German journalists? No, I think it is especially the case with British journalists, because they have a much closer relationship.

Of course with French journalists. … It is the case for Australians, [with] journalists from New Zealand, from Taiwan, well, there is many countries, … like Jordan for example. …

[9:17] Sometimes the intelligence agencies, they come to your office, and want you to write an article. … I just remember [for example] that the German foreign intelligence agency, the Bundesnachrichtendienst — it is just a sister organization of the Central Intelligence Agency, see it was founded by the American intelligence agency — … came to my office, and they wanted me to write an article about Libya and about Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. … They gave me all these secret informations, and they just wanted me to sign the article with my name. I did that. It was published in the Frankfurter Algemeine, … it was about how he secretly tried to build a poison gas factory, … it was a story that was printed worldwide days later, but I had no information on that [the CIA wrote it]. 

[11:25] A very good example [what happens] if you say no [to the CIA]: … So [regarding the particular employee who said no], what happened is that he lost his job. 

[12:40] Six times my house was searched, … I have [had] three house attacks, [but] I have no children, so … it’s worse for the truth [for other journalists, whose family can be threatened, not only themselves].



Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 11, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Why does WikiLeaks never have anything bad to say about the Republicans or Russia?

Why aren't Donald Trump's finances public knowledge? Why are his tax returns a mystery?

 The Republicans were howling mad about Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that wikileaks says nothing bad about the Republicans. In fact its earliest leaks were damaging to the Bush administration and the Republicans.

As far as the Russians and the Chinese, this may have one of many explanations- Perhaps there is greater organizational morale and loyalty (i.e. nationalism) that limits such leaks. There is also a culture of secrecy and deference to authority. Lastly, and most likely, the fact is that those kinds of regimes would respond rather harshly to someone who leaked such information- death penalty all but certain and rather swift, possibly also punishment of family and/or blind reprisals against colleagues.

Regardless, the information on wikileaks appears to be authentic. Regardless of its provenance and who funds wikileaks it is true.

Remember, the left loved wikileaks when it was doing things like embarrassing Neocons and the NSA. Now that Trump is in office, people can't think straight. All they do is see Trump and flip out.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 12, 2017, 07:20:54 AM
I guess what people liked about WikiLeaks was the transparency. But if they're sharing dirt about one side (the Dems and the established U.S. government agencies in general) but burying (what is almost certainly much worse) dirt about the other side (Republicans, Trump, and Russia) well that's not really transparency is it?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 12, 2017, 07:46:51 AM
Watch the interview:

Wow, he looks like a crazy man. Really strange mannerisms and facial expressions.

Some people go insane. That's a sad fact of life. And there are different degrees of mental illness / insanity. His position sounds more nuanced than yours sure, but I'm not going automatically accept the position of just one man- an RT Russian propagandist.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 12, 2017, 09:14:05 AM
I guess what people liked about WikiLeaks was the transparency. But if they're sharing dirt about one side (the Dems and the established U.S. government agencies in general) but burying (what is almost certainly much worse) dirt about the other side (Republicans, Trump, and Russia) well that's not really transparency is it?
But they're not only sharing about one side. They revealed information about Republican administrations/candidates in the past.

https://www.wired.com/2008/09/group-posts-e-m

It's just that most people have the memory and attention span of an ant and can't see anything beyond Trump so they spew the false nonsense of "WIKILEAKS ONLY PUBLISHES ABOUT DEMOCRATS!!!!!" Why? Because they fail to actually read and do research like the college-educated adults they claim to be. They just parrot what they read on twitter or in a comment section or what some talking head spews and assume its true. Besides, you could turn that around and say- Why does Buzzfeed only publishes leaks on Trump? Why is the CIA-NSA only tapping Trump and releasing stuff about Trump?

Wikileaks has always maintained that its information comes from internal sources within the Democratic Party and U.S. government agencies. The NSA and CIA have all stated that there is no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian hacks. And as I said, the lack of Chinese and Russian material may be due to the stricter security and punishment that those two regimes would employ. A leak in the CIA might end in an investigation and someone becoming a minor celebrity ala Manning and Snowden. A leak in Russia would end in torture and your family taken out back and shot. Different risk factors.

Besides what would a wikileaks of Russia reveal? Russia spies on its own people? Russia does shady stuff? Putin has opponents killed? Putin does this or that? People already know that. In fact, its sort of one of Putin's selling points in Russia. If you ask Russians to choose between Putin and Jimmy Carter as their leader, they'd take Putin. Why? Because he is strong, cunning, and respected and Russians find those appealing, even at the expense of the most liberal elements of social democracy. Contrary to liberals and globalists, who naively think humanity is one big happy family that shares the same values and aspirations, Russians at least balance those aspirations/delusions with hard-nosed realism.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 12, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
But they're not only sharing about one side.

No. They are. Nine years ago when McCain was running for president they leaked on his campaign, yes. (McCain takes a tough approach towards Russia's human rights violations.) But I was speaking in the present tense, not the past tense. Why is there no dirt on Trump being released? With all his business dealings around the world, certainly there would be something, no?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 12, 2017, 12:02:43 PM
Assange only wants to weaken America, and he knows that the best way to do this is to keep Trump in power. This is what Russia wants as well so they are natural allies.

If Assange actually cared about Americans he would not be aiding and abetting a troll who will oppress millions, ban abortion and take away health insurance. Assange and Russia despise Americans and think we are all guilty of some kind of decadent yankee original sin. It's the logical conclusion of whiny SJW anti-Americanism, translated into Australian and drunken Russian.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 12, 2017, 12:11:03 PM
Useful idiots of a feather flock together:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/11/farage-assange-shameless-illiberal-alliance

Quote
Nigel Farage’s social call on Julian Assange’s hideaway in the Ecuadorian embassy was a clarifying moment that ought to have flooded light on a dark world. To those who are willing to see, it revealed that far left and far right are now one movement.

“All isms are wasms,” quipped a Foreign Office wag as fascism and communism united in the Hitler-Stalin pact. That wasn’t true in 1939, when Berlin and Moscow found their shared belief in the “ism” of totalitarianism was greater than the difference between left and right, and isn’t true now. There is an “ism” – illiberalism – an ideology that has been growing for years. Do not underestimate its force. Illiberals now control the White House and the Kremlin. You can track their influence in the Brexit right’s contempt for education and expertise and the Labour left’s alliances with the counter-Enlightenment.

The old division between left and right makes as little sense now as it did in 1939. To realise its futility consider that in conventional terms Farage is a politician who manoeuvres in the grey zone before the right and the far right. He exploits chauvinism and plays on racial fears but is always careful not to incite violence directly. Assange is a man of what I once called the Chomskyan left and what modern critics call the regressive left. He is against the west, often for good reasons. Like so many of his kind, however, he will then ally with any force, however reactionary, which opposes the west as well.

The supposed political differences between the closet racist and alleged rapist in no way prevented them becoming chums. Why would they? Farage is an inspiration to and friend of Donald Trump. He admires Putin’s contempt for human rights and his hatred of the EU. If Wikileaks were dedicated to exposing injustice wherever it occurred, I would have no difficulties with it. But in characteristic regressive style Assange provides support services to the gangster capitalists of the new Russian empire. He proved his loyalty when he published hacked emails from the Clinton campaign, thus helping Putin and Farage’s preferred candidate win the US presidency.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 12, 2017, 12:42:03 PM
Wow, he looks like a crazy man. Really strange mannerisms and facial expressions.

Some people go insane.


That's really quite pathetic LImp. Attacking a dead person who was 100X braver than you show any signs of being. If you were man enough you'd be admitting you're wrong occasionally and standing up and speaking out against corruption.

Quote
I'm not going automatically accept the position of just one man- an RT Russian propagandist.

You're playing a losing game.... There are numerous whistleblowing journalists speaking about about the corruption in mainstream media.

Here is former CNN journalist Amber Lyon.

Quote
CNN Journalist ‘Governments Pay Us To Fake News’, Shocking Exposé
 November 26, 2016
According to Amber Lyon, a three-time Emmy award winning journalist, CNN is routinely paid by the US government and foreign governments to selectively report on certain events and make up fake news stories.
 
Furthermore, the Obama administration pay CNN for editorial control over some of their content.

Check out her video interview:
http://yournewswire.com/cnn-journalist-governments-pay-us-to-fake-stories-shocking-expose/ (http://yournewswire.com/cnn-journalist-governments-pay-us-to-fake-stories-shocking-expose/)

Quote
Here is a segment of the Bahrain report that Amber Lyon and her team put together. CNNi refused to allow it to air because the Bahrain Government had paid them not to show it.

When Amber Lyon recognized the extent of the reasoning, she challenged CNN. CNN told her to be quiet, and began to view her as a risk. She knew, and found out, too much.
 Amber is now trying to tell the story, the real story, of what is going on behind the closed doors of US Media entities. Amber has created her own website, and additionally as noted in the Guardian Article she is trying to share the truth of the deceptions.

What Amber Lyon describes is exactly the reason why CNN never aired the Nick Robertson interview with Muhammed Al Zawahiri in Egypt.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 12, 2017, 01:54:59 PM
The Emmys she won were regional Emmys (which is far less impressive- think minor league vs major league).

She's on the RT Russian propaganda channel.

YourNewsWire is also fake news.
http://www.snopes.com/tag/yournewswire-com/



Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 12, 2017, 01:59:49 PM
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/15809/did-journalist-amber-lyon-claim-that-the-us-government-paid-cnn-to-control-conte
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 12, 2017, 03:00:13 PM
Just like Trump and everyone else in the Grand Old Projection Party, the first refuge of a Russian scoundrel is to claim that his opponents are doing all the bad things that his side are doing.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 12, 2017, 09:40:51 PM
The Emmys she won were regional Emmys (which is far less impressive- think minor league vs major league).

She's on the RT Russian propaganda channel.

YourNewsWire is also fake news.
http://www.snopes.com/tag/yournewswire-com/

You're so ridiculous, it makes me laff.  :laugh:

She's speaking in a video interview. The same interview is found on dozens of websites.

Its not about which website something appears on that makes it true or not.

If Einsteins theory of relativity was posted on infowars, would it then become untrue?

Its about the veracity of the evidence itself.

You commit logical fallacies every time you breathe.

You think she's lying about her experience?

What she says is further backed up by her previously unpublished documentary. Also featured.

And her conclusions are backed up by numerous other former journalists, all saying the same thing. All prepared to risk their lives, their jobs, their pensions, and so on to get the facts out there.


You said you would not accept the testimony of only one person. Now we're up to two. How many first-hand accounts will it take for you?

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 12, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
In the meantime...I call witness number 3.

Quote
Sharyl Attkisson is a multiple Emmy award-winning journalist and former investigative correspondent in the Washington bureau for CBS News. She was an anchor for CNN, and also served as anchor for the CBS Evening News.

She resigned from CBS News on March 10, 2014 after 21 years with the network. Her book Stonewalled reached number 3 on New York Times e-book non-fiction best seller list in November 2014.

In 2008, Attkisson reported that a claim by Hillary Clinton to have dodged sniper fire in Bosnia was unfounded: Clinton's trip to Bosnia was risky, Attkisson said, but no real bullets were dodged. Attkisson was on the trip with Clinton.[16] The day after Attkisson's report on the CBS Evening News, Clinton admitted there was no sniper fire and said she "misspoke."

On March 10, 2014, Attkisson resigned from CBS News.[29] She stated that the parting was "amicable".[30] Politico reported that according to sources within CBS there had been tensions leading to "months of hard-fought negotiations" – that Attkisson had been frustrated over what she perceived to be the network's liberal bias and lack of dedication to investigative reporting.

Later that year came the release of her New York Times Best Seller, Stonewalled: One Reporter's Fight for Truth Against the Forces of Obstruction, Intimidation, and Harassment in Obama's Washington (Harpers),[4] in which she accused CBS of protecting the Obama administration by not giving enough coverage to such stories as the 2012 Benghazi attack and slow initial enrollments under Obamacare.[31]

In February 2015, Attkisson gave a TEDx talk at the University of Nevada. In the talk, she said that astroturfing was swaying public opinion, legislation and media outlets.[32]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharyl_Attkisson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharyl_Attkisson)

her book:

Quote
Stonewalled: My Fight for Truth Against the Forces of Obstruction, Intimidation, and Harassment in Obama's Washington

Seasoned CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson reveals how she has been electronically surveilled while digging deep into the Obama Administration and its scandals, and offers an incisive critique of her industry and the shrinking role of investigative journalism in today’s media.

Americans are at the mercy of powerful figures in business and government who are virtually unaccountable. The Obama Administration in particular has broken new ground in its monitoring of journalists, intimidation and harassment of opposition groups, and surveillance of private citizens.

Sharyl Attkisson has been a journalist for more than thirty years. During that time she has exposed scandals and covered controversies under both Republican and Democratic administrations. She has also seen the opponents of transparency go to ever greater lengths to discourage and obstruct legitimate reporting.

Attkisson herself has been subjected to “opposition research” efforts and spin campaigns. These tactics increased their intensity as she relentlessly pursued stories that the Obama Administration dismissed. Stonewalled is the story of how her news reports were met with a barrage of PR warfare tactics, including online criticism, as well as emails and phone calls up the network chain of command in an effort to intimidate and discourage the next story. In Stonewalled, Attkisson recounts her personal tale, setting it against the larger story of the decline of investigative journalism and unbiased truth-telling in America today.

https://www.amazon.com/Stonewalled-Obstruction-Intimidation-Harassment-Washington/dp/1501248219 (https://www.amazon.com/Stonewalled-Obstruction-Intimidation-Harassment-Washington/dp/1501248219)

Her website:

Quote
02/26/2017 — Sharyl Attkisson: What do you define as fake news? Susan Glasser: Well, as a term, right? It's like any term and in fact now you see partisans of both parties appropriating and using this label merely to apply it to news that they don't like. Susan Glasser was editor of the left-leaning Politico during the 2016 campaign.

Glasser: So what started out as a panic over fake news and what role it had in undermining Hillary Clinton's candidacy and promoting Donald Trump's candidacy, by the way is now a label that Donald Trump master marketer has seen is a powerful label so he's appropriated that and slapped that label on stories that he merely doesn't like.

President Trump: You are fake news…go ahead.

Glasser: It's not that it didn't exist before, but Americans used to know the difference between the National Enquirer at the checkout counter and the New York Times. Public suspicion and allegations of bias hound the most pervasive Internet players: Twitter, Google and Facebook.

Sharyl: During the presidential campaign, critics discovered a Google search for "Hillary Clinton indictment," typing in "IND," didn't suggest "indictment." When you type Hillary Clinton ind into Bing or Yahoo, there are plenty of indictment based recommendations. When you type it into Google the top two recommended autocompletions are Hillary Clinton Indiana and Hillary Clinton India. As it happens, Google's parent company, Alphabet, was a top Clinton donor. Its chief executive worked on the Clinton campaign. Last year, former Facebook insiders alleged they "routinely suppressed news stories of interest to conservative readers."

Sharyl: We hear from a lot of people that they don't trust Politico or Facebook or Google or whoever it might be that's trying to sort through the truth or the facts.

Glasser: We're looking at a crisis of faith in institutions. The media, being one set of institutions that is under assault. More broadly, political parties you know, no longer have the trust and the faith.

Sharyl: Torba claims Twitter censors conservatives, but not liberals for similar behavior. On Gab anything goes, he says, as long as it's legal, not inciting violence and not exposing information like credit cards.

Torba: What we're doing is instead of us playing big brother and you know curating content and deciding what is news and what isn't and what people should see and what they shouldn't, we are giving the power to you as a user so you can mute different words, trends, hashtags, phrases, topics, and users.

Sharyl: Because of Gab's anti-censorship policy, it's attracted plenty of detestable users. Some blogs call it Twitter for Racists and the Alt-Right's very own Twitter.

Torba: The media likes to label us as alt right or they've said, you know, Nazi Twitter or the Twitter for racists. I find it, you know, really funny because we have one of the most diverse starting teams of all time. So we have my co-founder who is a Turkish Kurd and he's also Muslim. We have our chief communications officer who is based in Canada, who is an Indian and a practicing Hindu.


Sharyl: If there's ultimate truth in the debate over manipulation of information-- it may be found in asking not "What can you believe", but "who wants you to believe it, and why?"

Sharyl: Do you favor censoring information that someone has decided is untrue or may blatantly be untrue so that the public can't access it online?

Glasser: I don't. I think that would be a terrible mistake. We have to find a way for truth to regain its value in our public discourse I think, and that's not about stopping people from what is untrue. It's about finding ways to reinvigorate the conversation around which is true and to find out that which those are powerful don't want us to know.

http://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-story/sum-of-knowledge-part-2 (http://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-story/sum-of-knowledge-part-2)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 12, 2017, 10:36:16 PM
I've heard that if you say Benghazi 100 times then the truth will come out...eventually... maybe, it's a 1000 times.

Aurata, got any news about Russian journalists being prevented from accurately reporting information that goes against Putin?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 13, 2017, 08:28:43 AM
Getting back to the original topic of when Trump will be impeached.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nim8FGCAno8

Trump associates' links with Russia: just some of what we know so far

Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Michael Cohen, Rex Tillerson (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/mar/02/donald-trump-russia-campaign-moscow)

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/02/28/maddow_big_news_connecting_wilbur_ross_to_russian_oligarch.htm)

The influence of Konstantin Kilimnik on the Republican Party Platform during their convention (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0CHxPCYiXk)

If Trump ever has to testify under oath it would be difficult to imagine him talking for more than five minutes before committing perjury.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 13, 2017, 09:03:48 AM
But they're not only sharing about one side.

No. They are. Nine years ago when McCain was running for president they leaked on his campaign, yes. (McCain takes a tough approach towards Russia's human rights violations.) But I was speaking in the present tense, not the past tense. Why is there no dirt on Trump being released? With all his business dealings around the world, certainly there would be something, no?

Wikileaks can only release the information it is given. Leaks have emerged from the Trump campaign already, but those were released to other outlets such as Buzzfeed or Washington Post. People choose to release information based on their leanings or the information's content or what they think will be censored by who they leak it to. Wikileaks primarily deals in raw document dumps of mass information from government sources- stuff you typically have to pour over for days and may be the result of hacking or criminal actions such as those of Manning and Snowden.

Wikileaks does not do any hacking or leaking themselves. They can't release info about Trump if no one has given them any.

This is a line of attack that dumb people fall for but anyone with the ability to reason should be able to understand- You can't leak what you don't have.

Assange only wants to weaken America, and he knows that the best way to do this is to keep Trump in power. This is what Russia wants as well so they are natural allies.

If Assange actually cared about Americans he would not be aiding and abetting a troll who will oppress millions, ban abortion and take away health insurance. Assange and Russia despise Americans and think we are all guilty of some kind of decadent yankee original sin. It's the logical conclusion of whiny SJW anti-Americanism, translated into Australian and drunken Russian.

Yes, but supporting Clinton would be aiding and abetting someone who wants to start Cold War 2.0, potentially get us involved in military operations in Ukraine, invade Syria and start a war there with Syria and possibly Russia, likely get us into a war and invasion with Iran, and take away jobs from American citizens.

Yes, Trump will oppress millions and ban abortion. With a stroke of a pen he's going to do that. Then he's going to round up everyone into camps and ovens.  :rolleyes:

Incredible that people who wail about propaganda actually believe that stuff about Trump.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 13, 2017, 09:17:15 AM

Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Michael Cohen, Rex Tillerson (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/mar/02/donald-trump-russia-campaign-moscow)

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/02/28/maddow_big_news_connecting_wilbur_ross_to_russian_oligarch.htm)

The influence of Konstantin Kilimnik on the Republican Party Platform during their convention (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0CHxPCYiXk)


I'm pretty sure that if you took Obama's cabinet members and campaign advisers from 2008, you could find "links" to Major Country X, Y, or Z for a number of them. It's called working in government and meeting people from around the world in a global economy when you have things like the UN and IMF.

I can also link Kevin Bacon to Al-Qaeda.

Former NSA head James Clapper (no fan of Trump)- "No evidence of collusion"

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597


So this Trump-Russia thing has zero evidence and is instead a bunch of innuendo and conjecture. Although, I suppose you could say that since Clapper and the NSA previously lied to the American public about wiretapping them, they could be lying about this. Then again, they're the ones pushing the "vague links" and "we didn't wiretap Trump" angle, so I guess you'd have to doubt them there too. Regardless, neither Obama, nor any Democrat on the Intelligence or Foreign Relations committees nor the FBI nor the IRS nor the CIA has released any hard evidence of Russian hacking.

You aren't investigating properly- you're starting with an assumption: Trump is guilty of treason with the Russians, and then you are working backwards to try and prove it. If you look at the evidence first and THEN draw conclusions, you'd say "there is no evidence of collusion."
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 13, 2017, 09:55:27 AM

I'm pretty sure that if you took Obama's cabinet members and campaign advisers from 2008, you could find "links" to Major Country X, Y, or Z for a number of them. It's called working in government and meeting people from around the world in a global economy when you have things like the UN and IMF.

Could you point out evidence of Obama fawning over the same prominent world leaders and claiming publicly that neither he nor any of his associates have absolutely any connection or dealings  with them?


Quote from: Mr.DeMartino
Former NSA head James Clapper (no fan of Trump)- "No evidence of collusion"

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597

Yeah I saw that video too. I'm pretty sure the inference from Clapper was no evidence of collusion yet. As he says, he's no longer in the job though, is he?


Quote from: Mr.DeMartino
You aren't investigating properly- you're starting with an assumption: Trump is guilty of treason with the Russians, and then you are working backwards to try and prove it. If you look at the evidence first and THEN draw conclusions, you'd say "there is no evidence of collusion."
Those assumptions, as always, are entirely yours.
Nonetheless, without suspicion of wrong doing there is no need for an investigation. One would need to have either a vested interest in a Republican presidency, a Trump cult follower or be extremely naive not to be suspicious of Trump and his dealings at this point. Remember the promise about providing his tax returns?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 13, 2017, 10:57:24 AM
Can anyone post a link to an elitist/establishment media story where the information provided in the first quote below is mentioned?  Is this true?  The articles may exist and I just have not seen such articles.

I would think that when conducting a good investigative news story about the Trump campaign meeting with the Russians that the news organization would have also investigated whether anyone in the Clinton campaign also met with any Russians.  I mean, if you really want to inform people wouldn’t you want to see if what the Trump campaign did was different from the other campaign?

Of course if this is true I’m sure that if Clinton had won then there would have been numerous investigations and news stories about the Clinton campaign meetings with the Russians……In addition, the Democrats would have been calling for impeachment and investigations as they called for investigations back in 2010 when the U.S. Secretary of State’s husband was paid U.S.$500,000.00 by a Russian bank for a speech in Moscow (see second quote below)……

Does anyone have a link to show what the U.S. President in 2010 had to say about this speech, or the Clinton Foundation and its links – monetarily- to the Russians, and his Secretary of State?

Quote
  First:

Dimitri Peskov: Russian diplomats met with Hillary's camp, too
Published on Mar 12, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OHlmf7vuJY

Second:

June 29, 2010

Bill Clinton is paid $500,000 for a speech in Moscow by a Russian investment bank with ties to the Kremlin that assigned a buy rating to Uranium One stock

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/23/us/clinton-foundation-donations-uranium-investors.html?_r=0

Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation Amid Russian Uranium Deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

By JO BECKER and MIKE McINTIREAPRIL 23, 2015

………The article, in January 2013, detailed how the Russian atomic energy agency, Rosatom, had taken over a Canadian company with uranium-mining stakes stretching from Central Asia to the American West. The deal made Rosatom one of the world’s largest uranium producers and brought Mr. Putin closer to his goal of controlling much of the global uranium supply chain.

But the untold story behind that story is one that involves not just the Russian president, but also a former American president and a woman who would like to be the next one.
At the heart of the tale are several men, leaders of the Canadian mining industry, who have been major donors to the charitable endeavors of former President Bill Clinton and his family. Members of that group built, financed and eventually sold off to the Russians a company that would become known as Uranium One………….

Whether the donations played any role in the approval of the uranium deal is unknown. But the episode underscores the special ethical challenges presented by the Clinton Foundation, headed by a former president who relied heavily on foreign cash to accumulate $250 million in assets even as his wife helped steer American foreign policy as secretary of state, presiding over decisions with the potential to benefit the foundation’s donors.                            

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 13, 2017, 11:14:59 AM
Wait! Are we trying to deny Trump's links to Russia or prove of the Clintons' links to them? Who among them is now President?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 13, 2017, 11:33:57 AM
Perhaps he could provide evidence of Hillary fawning over Putin while the Russians hacked into the GOP to provide support for Clinton during the campaign too. That would be something wouldn't it. Just imagine the outrage.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 13, 2017, 01:09:14 PM
Perhaps he could provide evidence of Hillary fawning over Putin while the Russians hacked into the GOP to provide support for Clinton during the campaign too. That would be something wouldn't it. Just imagine the outrage.

From all the congressional investigations looking at President [Hillary] Clinton's ties to Russia, I am sure he could find some photo of Putin and Hillary in the same room at one point in time and draw tenuous conclusions. Benghazi would have been nothing compared to Russia-gate.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 13, 2017, 03:15:55 PM
Perhaps he could provide evidence of Hillary fawning over Putin while the Russians hacked into the GOP to provide support for Clinton during the campaign too. That would be something wouldn't it. Just imagine the outrage.

Actually you'd just shrug, ignore it, change the subject and go back to desperately trying to find something wrong with trump.

News headline: Hilary murders staff with axe
Libs reaction: so? What about trump farting? Impeach! Impeach!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 13, 2017, 03:36:25 PM
Standard elitist responses in a dialog when the person cannot logically defend their position, and/or provide reliable information, references, facts, data or any other documentation to support their position.  Place an X by all that apply.

For the Russian Story:

   X   We set the standards, and we decide who must obey these standards – e.g. you must do as we say and not as we do.
        You are a racist.
        You are a sexist.
        You are a misogynist.
        You are a deplorable.
        You are not PC.
        You are an ist.
         
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 13, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Why not take the middle road?  Both candidates were crappy -

Now that one crappy candidate won, the DNC is trying to delegitimize his presidency in any way possible in order to install their own crappy candidate. 

A crapfest is all it is. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 13, 2017, 04:19:30 PM
Standard elitist responses in a dialog when the person cannot logically defend their position, and/or provide reliable information, references, facts, data or any other documentation to support their position.  Place an X by all that apply.

For the Russian Story:

   X   We set the standards, and we decide who must obey these standards – e.g. you must do as we say and not as we do.
        You are a racist.
        You are a sexist.
        You are a misogynist.
        You are a deplorable.
        You are not PC.
        You are an ist.
         

 :laugh:
Thank you for the comical relief. Have you ever thought about auditioning for Saturday Night Live? I'm sure there could be an opening for a Russian internet troll caricature.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 13, 2017, 07:29:42 PM
, the DNC is trying to delegitimize his presidency in any way possible in order to install their own crappy candidate. 

In any case I think Trump is safe from impeachment now because he has been co-opted into the globalist agenda.

He has been captured by the security/ military complex. He's already given them what they want: billions more dollars for the military and appointees that are even more russophobic than were in Obama's administration.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 13, 2017, 08:57:35 PM
, the DNC is trying to delegitimize his presidency in any way possible in order to install their own crappy candidate. 

In any case I think Trump is safe from impeachment now because he has been co-opted into the globalist agenda.

He has been captured by the security/ military complex. He's already given them what they want: billions more dollars for the military and appointees that are even more russophobic than were in Obama's administration.

3/13/17: the day Comrade Vatnik finally turned on Trump after months of desperately and embarrassingly rushing to his defense. Hahahaha.

Well, welcome to the club Aurata Auratovich. It's ladies' night and the pool opens at 8.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 13, 2017, 11:03:57 PM
Well, welcome to the club Aurata Auratovich. It's ladies' night and the pool opens at 8.

Are you coming to the radiation party? I'm sure you will positively glow in your matching lib-dems outfit.

I mean the one when WW3 begins between Russia and the US.

Obviously trust between thermo-nuclear powers is of low priority to you.


The needs of the military/security complex to make enemies and justify their massive budget... and the psychological needs of the fading US neo-con has-beens who desperately want to cling to a crazed dream of global hegemony is apparently more important to Washington than the continued viability of life on earth.

Trumps appointments of Matthis, McMaster and Hill are even worse than Nuland, Power and Rice. Possibly a touch too early to say, but...it appears that Trumps promise of restoring friendly relations with Russia have already collapsed and it will be business as usual.

If Trump really does fail to deliver and betrays his working class base, then it should become obvious to all that democracy in the US no longer exists, and the people cannot bring about change through the ballot box.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 14, 2017, 09:57:03 AM
White House spokesman claims punctuation in tweet means Trump was using ‘wiretap’ to mean surveillance more broadly.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/13/trump-wiretapping-claim-quotation-marks-obama

“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

I don't really see any other meaning that what was written in this ****'s tweet.
If we're now claiming that the phrase in quotes is supposed to be figurative, I can think of a lot of different meaning that it could allude to. Some of them are pretty naughty. Maybe I should send my speculation to one of the American media branches? They seem to enjoy making stuff up and citing crappy sources.  :smiley:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 14, 2017, 11:48:59 AM
"President"
Title: Tin foil hats and then some!
Post by: Adel on March 14, 2017, 06:26:20 PM
‘Wires tapped’, lest we forget the Conway line! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVlL4q34zGc)

(https://thetab.com/blogs.dir/91/files/2017/03/obamamamaa-600x284.jpg)
Title: Enough of the distractions already!
Post by: Adel on March 15, 2017, 11:32:48 AM
Well what do you know.
 leaked Trump Tax Return! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eB-xjDMGdQ)
Title: Re: Enough of the distractions already!
Post by: Savant on March 15, 2017, 11:50:47 AM
Well what do you know.
 leaked Trump Tax Return! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eB-xjDMGdQ)

Not much to see. I think a planned "leak" from Team Trump to distract from the Russian and "wire tapping" investigations. Not to mention the poor numbers mentioned on RyanCare.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 15, 2017, 11:53:22 AM
Might be true. Might have leaked the year showing him in the best light. Only 2005? Still, very interesting. Not sure what I think.
Title: Re: Enough of the distractions already!
Post by: Adel on March 15, 2017, 11:54:50 AM
Well what do you know.
 leaked Trump Tax Return! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eB-xjDMGdQ)

Not much to see. I think a planned "leak" from Team Trump to distract from the Russian and "wire tapping" investigations. Not to mention the poor numbers mentioned on RyanCare.


True, not much to see yet. Another distraction.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 15, 2017, 01:17:16 PM
If Trump had done anything wrong, the IRS would have filed tax evasion charges.

While there might be something embarrassing about them, there is nothing criminal and he is under no legal obligation to reveal them.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 15, 2017, 04:10:27 PM
It amazes me how some Americans act so outrageously appalled about someone else’s taxes, such as Trump’s, when we all do basically the same thing when it comes to taxes.  In addition, we are all responsible for the tax code that allows us to do these things. 

1.  Both the establishment Democrats (Ds) and establishment Republicans (Rs) are responsible for how the enormous and very complicated tax code has been written.

Quote
http://www.trygve.com/taxcode.html
By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.
         

2.  No one can take tax credits or deductions unless the code allows it, and both the Ds and the Rs have given their special interest groups special tax breaks under the code.

3.  Would trade groups, corporations, special interest groups, unions……..spend so much money on lobbying regarding taxes if they did not expect a return on their investment?  From Hollywood to Exxon……..

I am currently doing my U.S. taxes and I plan to take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, along with any other deduction that I can find.  For the other Americans posting on this board and working overseas, do you plan on taking the Foreign Income Exclusion, or will you be a socially responsible person and not claim it so you can pay U.S. taxes?  Will you take the standard deduction, or if you are eligible will you itemize your deductions?  If you have a mortgage in the U.S. do you plan on taking the interest deduction?  Every American I know takes all the deductions and credits they can find.
 
And yes, the tax code has been written by the Ds and Rs so that people who make a great deal of money seem to find it easier to pay less in taxes.  People with lots of money spend lots of money on bribes lobbying and campaign contributions; therefore, the tax code favors these people.

For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?
 
For those Americans working overseas, I have a final question:

If a revised tax code was introduced to Congress that many, many people said was very “equitable”, and required the “rich” to pay their “fair” share, but also required Americans working overseas to give up the Foreign Income Exclusion, would you support this revised tax code?


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 15, 2017, 04:25:48 PM
For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?

Many Dems worked to increase taxes on the upper 1%, in effect giving themselves a tax raise. Republicans the opposite.

Trumps tax returns would most likely expose how little he donated to charity and how his wealth had been exaggerated. That's why he's keeping the information secret. Why else would  he?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 16, 2017, 09:29:50 AM
For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?

Many Dems worked to increase taxes on the upper 1%, in effect giving themselves a tax raise. Republicans the opposite.

Trumps tax returns would most likely expose how little he donated to charity and how his wealth had been exaggerated. That's why he's keeping the information secret. Why else would  he?

If I'm not mistaken, taxes reflect income and business expenses. They do not necessarily reflect net worth and thus could not say whether his wealth had been exaggerated. It would reflect his charitable donations though.

I'm starting to suspect this might be a long con by Trump. He did it with birtherism. He might be doing it here.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr C on March 16, 2017, 09:39:11 AM
If Trump had done anything wrong, the IRS would have filed tax evasion charges.

While there might be something embarrassing about them, there is nothing criminal and he is under no legal obligation to reveal them.
No legal obligation, though he earlier promised he would.

I think that Trump himself leaked this form, for a few reasons, mostly to distract from the Russia/wiretap/healthcare disasters currently roiling the WH.

Why 2005? There's nothing really outrageous or even very noteworthy about this tax filing.  And that is why, IMO.  It's the last time his taxes don't plainly illustrate what a liar he is.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 16, 2017, 11:46:44 AM
For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?

Many Dems worked to increase taxes on the upper 1%, in effect giving themselves a tax raise. Republicans the opposite.

Trumps tax returns would most likely expose how little he donated to charity and how his wealth had been exaggerated. That's why he's keeping the information secret. Why else would  he?

If I'm not mistaken, taxes reflect income and business expenses. They do not necessarily reflect net worth and thus could not say whether his wealth had been exaggerated. It would reflect his charitable donations though.

I'm starting to suspect this might be a long con by Trump. He did it with birtherism. He might be doing it here.

Agree with Mr. DeMartino.  I’m not a tax expert, but based on my tax filing experience your personal tax return basically shows your income for that particular tax year.   
 
If you claim the charitable deduction the personal tax return will show that; however, I do not see where a personal tax return form requires you to show your net worth for that year.  For example:

1.  Money in the bank.  The tax return would show any taxable interest you earned that year, but it would not show how much total money you have deposited in various bank accounts (e.g. standard savings, CD’s…….)
2.  IRAs.  For a standard IRA the return would show how much money you contributed that year, but it would not show the total value of you IRAs
3.  Stock investments. The return would show stock capital gains or losses if you sold stock that year, and it would show taxable stock dividends that you were paid that year, but it would not show how much total money you have invested in stocks or mutual funds.
4.  House.  The return might show a capital gain if you sold your house that year, and it would show mortgage interest you paid that year if you claim the mortgage deduction; however, if you did not sell your house it would not show the current value of your house.

IMHO, charitable donations is an area where many Americans might try to stretch the truth.  For example, when you donate to Goodwill and they give you that blank Goodwill donation form to fill out on your own, do regular hard-working middle class Americans ever exaggerate what they donated and/or how much it was really worth?

I still think that the elitists are screaming for Trump’s tax returns because: (1) They still do not accept/recognize why Trump won; (2) They are having a hard time challenging him on real issues; and (3) They think it helps them if they keep the headlines focused on trivial issues like Trump did not pay taxes; even if all he did was take all the deductions that he could find just like every other American does when filing taxes……  It’s like MSNBC and the “Russians,” that’s all they can talk about.  Listening to them it sounds like there were KGB, FSB, SVR…… agents operating in every polling booth in America…..

Furthermore, I also think that Trump likes for them to stay focused on issues like his taxes.  For example: (1) In the long run it means nothing; (2) He can always burn them in the future, as he knows what the returns say, and if nothing is illegal about them he can release them when the timing is right for him; and (3) He goes about implementing his agenda while they stay focused on his taxes….


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 16, 2017, 02:13:25 PM

No, we've got used to the reality show celebrity that inhabits the Oval Office now. 

You can add...

(4) That Trump can't make coherent, fair foreign policy because of the extent of his business interests.  He's already shown once already with his ridiculous travel ban that he forgot Turkey, Egypt and most of all, Saudi Arabia, off his list, as he has business interests in those countries. 

He also interfered in his daughter's business by tweet his disapproval about Nordstrom canceling Ivanka's brand.

Do you really want Trump and his mates to **** around with parts of the hallowed American constitution?  If yes, then fine.

Le sigh. The travel ban list includes a bunch of countries that are in chaos and/or failed regimes, with the exception of Iran which has been labeled a state sponsor of terror by previous administrations going back to Jimmy Carter and whom we don't have formal diplomatic relations with. Turkey is a member of NATO and has done things like host nuclear missiles and let us use their bases for military missions. Saudi Arabia has a stable government, purchases arms from us, and cooperates to some extent on intelligence. Egypt's regime is somewhat unstable, but they have a long history of cooperation. This is a far cry from Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen.

Apparently reflexive anti-Trumpers are too stupid and lack the critical thinking skills to understand what is involved in the travel ban list. They made up their mind first, then try to get the facts to fit it. 

I don't think most Americans give a shit that Trump tweeted about his own daughter's clothing line. Most Americans aren't insane and recognize family loyalty.

Go after Trump for the health care plan. Go after him for environmental rollbacks. Go after him for his tax plan. But enough of taking minor shit and exaggerating it beyond all belief, being reflexively obstructive, and the hysteria of how we're all doomed.

It didn't work during the election, it's not going to work in the future.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 16, 2017, 02:15:44 PM
Also, I love how everyone says Trump is insane/stupid and that the left is so brilliant, but he utterly played Rachel Maddow. And did so with ease. Get with reality- he isn't insane and he isn't stupid. In fact, many anti-Trumpers may be a bit off their rocker and not perceiving reality (Hitler! Russia everywhere!) and aren't as smart as they think they are.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 16, 2017, 02:57:25 PM
Also, I love how everyone says Trump is insane/stupid and that the left is so brilliant, but he utterly played Rachel Maddow. And did so with ease. Get with reality- he isn't insane and he isn't stupid. In fact, many anti-Trumpers may be a bit off their rocker and not perceiving reality (Hitler! Russia everywhere!) and aren't as smart as they think they are.

Rachel Maddow was on a roll with her Russian stuff. I think Trump thought that the tax leak would change the media headlines but it worked for only one day and we are now back to looking at his wiretapping allegations [that he continues to put out there], RyanCare and the latest travel ban.

Trump isn't stupid but he is a spoiled man-child.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on March 16, 2017, 06:21:54 PM
If only the superpower of the universe could rewind the clock a bit to when their politics was more brainy and less juvenile. A time when the whole democratic world "respected" Americans and their politics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQdDiqEmxOg
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on March 16, 2017, 06:26:22 PM
But more seriously, here are some conservative Republicans debating immigration before U.S. politics went into the toilet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on March 16, 2017, 07:00:37 PM
It amazes me how some Americans act so outrageously appalled about someone else’s taxes, such as Trump’s, when we all do basically the same thing when it comes to taxes.  In addition, we are all responsible for the tax code that allows us to do these things. 

1.  Both the establishment Democrats (Ds) and establishment Republicans (Rs) are responsible for how the enormous and very complicated tax code has been written.

Quote
http://www.trygve.com/taxcode.html
By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.
         

2.  No one can take tax credits or deductions unless the code allows it, and both the Ds and the Rs have given their special interest groups special tax breaks under the code.

3.  Would trade groups, corporations, special interest groups, unions……..spend so much money on lobbying regarding taxes if they did not expect a return on their investment?  From Hollywood to Exxon……..

I am currently doing my U.S. taxes and I plan to take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, along with any other deduction that I can find.  For the other Americans posting on this board and working overseas, do you plan on taking the Foreign Income Exclusion, or will you be a socially responsible person and not claim it so you can pay U.S. taxes?  Will you take the standard deduction, or if you are eligible will you itemize your deductions?  If you have a mortgage in the U.S. do you plan on taking the interest deduction?  Every American I know takes all the deductions and credits they can find.
 
And yes, the tax code has been written by the Ds and Rs so that people who make a great deal of money seem to find it easier to pay less in taxes.  People with lots of money spend lots of money on bribes lobbying and campaign contributions; therefore, the tax code favors these people.

For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?
 
For those Americans working overseas, I have a final question:

If a revised tax code was introduced to Congress that many, many people said was very “equitable”, and required the “rich” to pay their “fair” share, but also required Americans working overseas to give up the Foreign Income Exclusion, would you support this revised tax code?

This is way too broad.  I do not pay taxes because I have not lived in the US for almost a decade.  I don't think this is being socially irresponsible.  I have to pay them in Korea.

There's a difference between an Korean EFL  teacher or a person in another low status position taking deductions and a corporation or industry taking tax deductions.  There's no Korean EFL lobby in DC to bribe Congress with or any way to similarly schmooze with powerful people.  I have virtually no power in the political system while larger entities (some of which you named)  can change the law to create new  deductions, complicated regulations, and expensive lawyers.

I--and others in my socioeconomic position--have basically no input in to how law works.  We can just pick between two candidates/contestants periodically.  This is the "democratic" process now.  I am encouraged by the level of political protest compared to previous eras given how early it is in the Trump candidacy and given how the Democratic Party has become a McCarthyist Party.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 17, 2017, 07:37:51 AM
It amazes me how some Americans act so outrageously appalled about someone else’s taxes, such as Trump’s, when we all do basically the same thing when it comes to taxes.  In addition, we are all responsible for the tax code that allows us to do these things. 

1.  Both the establishment Democrats (Ds) and establishment Republicans (Rs) are responsible for how the enormous and very complicated tax code has been written.

Quote
http://www.trygve.com/taxcode.html
By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.
         

2.  No one can take tax credits or deductions unless the code allows it, and both the Ds and the Rs have given their special interest groups special tax breaks under the code.

3.  Would trade groups, corporations, special interest groups, unions……..spend so much money on lobbying regarding taxes if they did not expect a return on their investment?  From Hollywood to Exxon……..

I am currently doing my U.S. taxes and I plan to take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, along with any other deduction that I can find.  For the other Americans posting on this board and working overseas, do you plan on taking the Foreign Income Exclusion, or will you be a socially responsible person and not claim it so you can pay U.S. taxes?  Will you take the standard deduction, or if you are eligible will you itemize your deductions?  If you have a mortgage in the U.S. do you plan on taking the interest deduction?  Every American I know takes all the deductions and credits they can find.
 
And yes, the tax code has been written by the Ds and Rs so that people who make a great deal of money seem to find it easier to pay less in taxes.  People with lots of money spend lots of money on bribes lobbying and campaign contributions; therefore, the tax code favors these people.

For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?
 
For those Americans working overseas, I have a final question:

If a revised tax code was introduced to Congress that many, many people said was very “equitable”, and required the “rich” to pay their “fair” share, but also required Americans working overseas to give up the Foreign Income Exclusion, would you support this revised tax code?

This is way too broad.  I do not pay taxes because I have not lived in the US for almost a decade.  I don't think this is being socially irresponsible.  I have to pay them in Korea.

There's a difference between an Korean EFL  teacher or a person in another low status position taking deductions and a corporation or industry taking tax deductions.  There's no Korean EFL lobby in DC to bribe Congress with or any way to similarly schmooze with powerful people.  I have virtually no power in the political system while larger entities (some of which you named)  can change the law to create new  deductions, complicated regulations, and expensive lawyers.

I--and others in my socioeconomic position--have basically no input in to how law works.  We can just pick between two candidates/contestants periodically.  This is the "democratic" process now.  I am encouraged by the level of political protest compared to previous eras given how early it is in the Trump candidacy and given how the Democratic Party has become a McCarthyist Party.

One of my points was that every American I know takes all the deductions they can; therefore, how can they criticize someone else for taking deductions…..

You don’t have to worry about not having a Korean GET lobbying group to keep the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion.  The big players are the ones that do the lobbying to keep it in place.  Companies like Halliburton, Exxon……that have U.S. workers outside the U.S. 

I previously worked outside the U.S. for a very large U.S. defense contractor, and believe me the other U.S. workers, many whose income was well above the Foreign Income Exclusion threshold, were very active when there were talks back in the early 2000’s about eliminating or reducing the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion.


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on March 17, 2017, 09:36:49 AM
It amazes me how some Americans act so outrageously appalled about someone else’s taxes, such as Trump’s, when we all do basically the same thing when it comes to taxes.  In addition, we are all responsible for the tax code that allows us to do these things. 

1.  Both the establishment Democrats (Ds) and establishment Republicans (Rs) are responsible for how the enormous and very complicated tax code has been written.

Quote
http://www.trygve.com/taxcode.html
By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.
         

2.  No one can take tax credits or deductions unless the code allows it, and both the Ds and the Rs have given their special interest groups special tax breaks under the code.

3.  Would trade groups, corporations, special interest groups, unions……..spend so much money on lobbying regarding taxes if they did not expect a return on their investment?  From Hollywood to Exxon……..

I am currently doing my U.S. taxes and I plan to take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, along with any other deduction that I can find.  For the other Americans posting on this board and working overseas, do you plan on taking the Foreign Income Exclusion, or will you be a socially responsible person and not claim it so you can pay U.S. taxes?  Will you take the standard deduction, or if you are eligible will you itemize your deductions?  If you have a mortgage in the U.S. do you plan on taking the interest deduction?  Every American I know takes all the deductions and credits they can find.
 
And yes, the tax code has been written by the Ds and Rs so that people who make a great deal of money seem to find it easier to pay less in taxes.  People with lots of money spend lots of money on bribes lobbying and campaign contributions; therefore, the tax code favors these people.

For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?
 
For those Americans working overseas, I have a final question:

If a revised tax code was introduced to Congress that many, many people said was very “equitable”, and required the “rich” to pay their “fair” share, but also required Americans working overseas to give up the Foreign Income Exclusion, would you support this revised tax code?

Yes, if it was truly equitable. The problem as you have pointed out is the complexity and unfair taxing of low to middle wage earners, i.e percent of income taxed and thresholds on Social Security. 

Also while we are dreaming I would like to see citizens united overturned and corporations going back to being inanimate objects.  ;D



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/15/us/politics/trump-budget-proposal.html
Quote
Defense

$574 billion
2018 PROPOSAL
⬆︎+$52.3 billion
CHANGE FROM 2017
⬆︎+10%
PCT. CHANGE
It’s unclear exactly how all of the increases would be distributed. Some of the money would go to accelerating the fight against the Islamic State, and to pay for more warships and fighter jets.

President Trump will face difficulty getting this proposal through Congress, where the threat of automatic spending cuts known as sequestration has acted as a brake on military spending. And many American military officials — the defense secretary included — have denounced efforts to cut foreign aid in favor of more defense spending. Many foreign aid programs, those officials say, contribute to global stability and are seen as important in helping avoid future conflicts.
Which party are the chicken hawks again?? Probably both.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 17, 2017, 10:05:08 AM
It amazes me how some Americans act so outrageously appalled about someone else’s taxes, such as Trump’s, when we all do basically the same thing when it comes to taxes.  In addition, we are all responsible for the tax code that allows us to do these things. 

1.  Both the establishment Democrats (Ds) and establishment Republicans (Rs) are responsible for how the enormous and very complicated tax code has been written.

Quote
http://www.trygve.com/taxcode.html
By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.
         

2.  No one can take tax credits or deductions unless the code allows it, and both the Ds and the Rs have given their special interest groups special tax breaks under the code.

3.  Would trade groups, corporations, special interest groups, unions……..spend so much money on lobbying regarding taxes if they did not expect a return on their investment?  From Hollywood to Exxon……..

I am currently doing my U.S. taxes and I plan to take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, along with any other deduction that I can find.  For the other Americans posting on this board and working overseas, do you plan on taking the Foreign Income Exclusion, or will you be a socially responsible person and not claim it so you can pay U.S. taxes?  Will you take the standard deduction, or if you are eligible will you itemize your deductions?  If you have a mortgage in the U.S. do you plan on taking the interest deduction?  Every American I know takes all the deductions and credits they can find.
 
And yes, the tax code has been written by the Ds and Rs so that people who make a great deal of money seem to find it easier to pay less in taxes.  People with lots of money spend lots of money on bribes lobbying and campaign contributions; therefore, the tax code favors these people.

For those who say that other Presidents have released their tax returns, my question is: What did these other Presidents do to revise the tax code and eliminate special tax breaks for special people/groups?
 
For those Americans working overseas, I have a final question:

If a revised tax code was introduced to Congress that many, many people said was very “equitable”, and required the “rich” to pay their “fair” share, but also required Americans working overseas to give up the Foreign Income Exclusion, would you support this revised tax code?

Yes, if it was truly equitable. The problem as you have pointed out is the complexity and unfair taxing of low to middle wage earners, i.e percent of income taxed and thresholds on Social Security. 

Also while we are dreaming I would like to see citizens united overturned and corporations going back to being inanimate objects.  ;D



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/15/us/politics/trump-budget-proposal.html
Quote
Defense

$574 billion
2018 PROPOSAL
⬆︎+$52.3 billion
CHANGE FROM 2017
⬆︎+10%
PCT. CHANGE
It’s unclear exactly how all of the increases would be distributed. Some of the money would go to accelerating the fight against the Islamic State, and to pay for more warships and fighter jets.

President Trump will face difficulty getting this proposal through Congress, where the threat of automatic spending cuts known as sequestration has acted as a brake on military spending. And many American military officials — the defense secretary included — have denounced efforts to cut foreign aid in favor of more defense spending. Many foreign aid programs, those officials say, contribute to global stability and are seen as important in helping avoid future conflicts.
Which party are the chicken hawks again?? Probably both.

Personally, I favor a flat tax system where everyone adds up all their income, whether from jobs, dividends, gains from selling stocks…….. and then you pay a flat per cent based on your total  income.  Maybe have several flat rates based on income.  I thought Simpson-Bowles was a good start.  But, neither the establish Rs nor Ds would support Simpson-Bowles because it impacted special interest groups on both sides of the aisle, would take away campaign and fund raising issues if you actually solved a problem - let alone all the lawyers, accountants and government workers that would lose work.

However, if you are going to really reform something and get legislation passed, the legislation needs to impact groups across the political divide.  Make everyone put some skin into the game…. 

A quote from Simpson-Bowles:

"the current income tax is fundamentally unfair, far too complex, and long overdue for sweeping reform."

https://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on March 17, 2017, 07:38:02 PM

A negative income tax sounds like the just solution.  Turn the corporations back into inanimate objects as was said, applying the 14th Amendment to actual human beings, and then create a a floor people cannot go under.  If you exist as an adult, you get money to meet basic needs no matter what (since there will always be unemployment), and, if you work, you receive a much higher total.  Instead of redistributing wealth to the rich , make sure there's a humane floor.  It's a pity that Nixon's economic policies look comparatively good now.  At this point, this sort of proposal similar to one supported by the Nixon administration seems like fantasy talk.

Why do we give the private sector so much credit for innovation while demonizing government?  The government often  largely  creates the infrastructure for military related research such as that that led to the Internet, for instance, and then just gives the research away to private enterprise with very little expectation of anything in return.  The public airwaves were more or less just turned over to private enterprise free of charge.  Taxpayers pay for development of industrial development, credit for industrial development almost entirely goes to private industry, and then the government so often gets portrayed as almost totally nefarious and/or incompetent.  The government does certain things such as health care better and more efficiently.

We already redistribute money to the rich and industry.  Why not make sure people can make a decent living?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 17, 2017, 07:57:40 PM
That's right. Government is like a hammer. It can be used for good or for evil. Build something or hurt a person.

Incidentally, anyone else troubled by Trump's attorney general pick?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFHGJa68EuA

http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-sessions-vows-to-ramp-up-drug-enforcement-and-prevention-2017-3
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 18, 2017, 09:04:52 AM
Unfortunately, in my opinion the chances of there ever being any real tax reform are basically non-existent.  The special interest groups across the political divide are all too dug into their own tax breaks.  Furthermore, people don’t think about what is good for the country as a whole, they think about what is good for their individual group.  People have become hyphenated-Americans, they put their group first and the country second or third.

No one talks about making a little sacrifice for the good of the country as a whole; it is all about what is good for my particular group.  And, the politicians love and use this for fund raising and campaigns.  If the politicians actually comprised and solved problems they would lose this means of making money and keeping power – e.g. if you don’t give me money and vote for me the other side will annihilate you……  Again, look at Simpson-Bowles: not a complete tax fix but a step in the right direction, and neither the Ds or Rs would support it.

Part of Trump’s winning collation included people who were protesting against the establishment Rs and Ds.  They voted for Trump not because they necessarily liked him or all of his positions, but to throw a political hand grenade into Washington D.C., because things could not get worse in DC than they already were…….
 
 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 18, 2017, 09:35:34 AM
You actually believe that?

Exaggerations, lies, and slander convinced you.

In actuality, Obama was an intelligent and dignified president for eight years, presiding over a prosperous economy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhIWf6G77M
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 18, 2017, 10:22:31 AM

A negative income tax sounds like the just solution.  Turn the corporations back into inanimate objects as was said, applying the 14th Amendment to actual human beings, and then create a a floor people cannot go under.  If you exist as an adult, you get money to meet basic needs no matter what (since there will always be unemployment), and, if you work, you receive a much higher total.  Instead of redistributing wealth to the rich , make sure there's a humane floor.  It's a pity that Nixon's economic policies look comparatively good now.  At this point, this sort of proposal similar to one supported by the Nixon administration seems like fantasy talk.

Why do we give the private sector so much credit for innovation while demonizing government?  The government often  largely  creates the infrastructure for military related research such as that that led to the Internet, for instance, and then just gives the research away to private enterprise with very little expectation of anything in return.  The public airwaves were more or less just turned over to private enterprise free of charge.  Taxpayers pay for development of industrial development, credit for industrial development almost entirely goes to private industry, and then the government so often gets portrayed as almost totally nefarious and/or incompetent.  The government does certain things such as health care better and more efficiently.

We already redistribute money to the rich and industry.  Why not make sure people can make a decent living?

Besides opening China and finally ending Vietnam, Nixon did do other things besides Watergate.  Remember, at this time Nixon was Republican and the House and Senate were controlled by Democrats, but sometimes they worked together - upset special interest groups on both sides of the aisle - comprised and did get some things done.  Did each side get everything they wanted: no….And, sometimes the special interest groups prevailed, as with delaying national health care (see below).

Nixon created the EPA:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2010/12/gallery-why-nixon-created-the-epa/67351/

Forty years ago today, Richard Nixon's Administration officially created a new entity, the Environmental Protection Agency.

1970 was a year of tremendous environmental action by Nixon and Congress. The President signed the National Environmental Policy Act on January 2nd, delivered a call to make "the 1970s a historic period when, by conscious choice, [we] transform our land into what we want it to become" in his State of the Union Address, and ended the year with the creation of an independent agency to regulate the environment.

Nixon proposed national health care, but if you notice the 1974 date of the message below, he got occupied by other thing in 1974.   

It is really worth reading his entire message on health care found at the link.  Below are just some excerpts.  Just think if this had passed back in 1974. 

http://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/

President Richard Nixon’s Special Message to the Congress Proposing a Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan
February 6, 1974

From The American Presidency Project, University of California at Santa Barbara
To the Congress of the United States:

One of the most cherished goals of our democracy is to assure every American an equal opportunity to lead a full and productive life.
 
In the last quarter century, we have made remarkable progress toward that goal, opening the doors to millions of our fellow countrymen who were seeking equal opportunities in education, jobs and voting.

Now it is time that we move forward again in still another critical area: health care.
Without adequate health care, no one can make full use of his or her talents and opportunities. It is thus just as important that economic, racial and social barriers not stand in the way of good health care as it is to eliminate those barriers to a good education and a good job.

Three years ago, I proposed a major health insurance program to the Congress, seeking to guarantee adequate financing of health care on a nationwide basis. That proposal generated widespread discussion and useful debate. But no legislation reached my desk……..

–Across the Nation, the average cost of a day of hospital care now exceeds $110.
–The average cost of delivering a baby and providing postnatal care approaches $1,000.
–The average cost of health care for terminal cancer now exceeds $20,000.

BROAD AND BALANCED PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS

Upon adoption of appropriate Federal and State legislation, the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan would offer to every American the same broad and balanced health protection through one of three major programs: ………………….

…….The benefits offered by the three plans would be identical for all Americans, regardless of age or income. Benefits would be provided for:
–hospital care;
–physicians’ care in and out of the hospital;
–prescription and life-saving drugs;
–laboratory tests and X-rays;
–medical devices;
–ambulance services; and,
–other ancillary health care.

There would be no exclusions of coverage based on the nature of the illness. For example, a person with heart disease would qualify for benefits as would a person with kidney disease.       

In addition, CHIP would cover treatment for mental illness, alcoholism and drug addiction, whether that treatment were provided in hospitals and physicians’ offices or in community based settings.

Under the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan, a doctor’s decisions could be based on the health care needs of his patients, not on health insurance coverage. This difference is essential for quality care.

Every American participating in the program would be insured for catastrophic illnesses that can eat away savings and plunge individuals and families into hopeless debt for years. No family would ever have annual out-of-pocket expenses for covered health services in excess of $1,500, and low-income families would face substantially smaller expenses.

As part of this program, every American who participates in the program would receive a Health-card when the plan goes into effect in his State. This card, similar to a credit card, would be honored by hospitals, nursing homes, emergency rooms, doctors, and clinics across the country. This card could also be used to identify information on blood type and .sensitivity to particular drugs-information which might be important in an emergency.

Bills for the services paid for with the Health-card would be sent to the insurance carrier who would reimburse the provider of the care for covered services, then bill the patient for his share, if any.

The entire program would become effective in 1976, assuming that the plan is promptly enacted by the Congress.
                   
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 18, 2017, 10:35:38 AM
You actually believe that?

Exaggerations, lies, and slander convinced you.

In actuality, Obama was an intelligent and dignified president for eight years, presiding over a prosperous economy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhIWf6G77M

Actually, I know exactly why I and others I know supported Trump….

Yes, Obama was always upfront and honest with the American people, especially when it came to what many call his “signature” legislation.

http://www.politifact.com/obama-like-health-care-keep/

1.  President’s weekly address, June 6, 2009: "If you like the plan you have, you can keep it.  If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too.  The only change you’ll see are falling costs as our reforms take hold."

2.  Town hall in Green Bay, Wis., June 11, 2009: "No matter how we reform health care, I intend to keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you'll be able to keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan."

3.  Remarks at the American Medical Association, June 15, 2009: "I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage — they like their plan and, most importantly, they value their relationship with their doctor. They trust you. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what."   

4.  Remarks at a rally for New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine, July 16, 2009: "if you've got health insurance, you like your doctor, you like your plan — you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan.  Nobody is talking about taking that away from you." 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: hippo on March 18, 2017, 11:57:06 AM

A negative income tax sounds like the just solution.  Turn the corporations back into inanimate objects as was said, applying the 14th Amendment to actual human beings, and then create a a floor people cannot go under.  If you exist as an adult, you get money to meet basic needs no matter what (since there will always be unemployment), and, if you work, you receive a much higher total.  Instead of redistributing wealth to the rich , make sure there's a humane floor.  It's a pity that Nixon's economic policies look comparatively good now.  At this point, this sort of proposal similar to one supported by the Nixon administration seems like fantasy talk.

Why do we give the private sector so much credit for innovation while demonizing government?  The government often  largely  creates the infrastructure for military related research such as that that led to the Internet, for instance, and then just gives the research away to private enterprise with very little expectation of anything in return.  The public airwaves were more or less just turned over to private enterprise free of charge.  Taxpayers pay for development of industrial development, credit for industrial development almost entirely goes to private industry, and then the government so often gets portrayed as almost totally nefarious and/or incompetent.  The government does certain things such as health care better and more efficiently.

We already redistribute money to the rich and industry.  Why not make sure people can make a decent living?

Besides opening China and finally ending Vietnam, Nixon did do other things besides Watergate.  Remember, at this time Nixon was Republican and the House and Senate were controlled by Democrats, but sometimes they worked together - upset special interest groups on both sides of the aisle - comprised and did get some things done.  Did each side get everything they wanted: no….And, sometimes the special interest groups prevailed, as with delaying national health care (see below).

Nixon created the EPA:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2010/12/gallery-why-nixon-created-the-epa/67351/

Forty years ago today, Richard Nixon's Administration officially created a new entity, the Environmental Protection Agency.

1970 was a year of tremendous environmental action by Nixon and Congress. The President signed the National Environmental Policy Act on January 2nd, delivered a call to make "the 1970s a historic period when, by conscious choice, [we] transform our land into what we want it to become" in his State of the Union Address, and ended the year with the creation of an independent agency to regulate the environment.

Nixon proposed national health care, but if you notice the 1974 date of the message below, he got occupied by other thing in 1974.   

It is really worth reading his entire message on health care found at the link.  Below are just some excerpts.  Just think if this had passed back in 1974. 

http://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/

President Richard Nixon’s Special Message to the Congress Proposing a Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan
February 6, 1974

From The American Presidency Project, University of California at Santa Barbara
To the Congress of the United States:

One of the most cherished goals of our democracy is to assure every American an equal opportunity to lead a full and productive life.
 
In the last quarter century, we have made remarkable progress toward that goal, opening the doors to millions of our fellow countrymen who were seeking equal opportunities in education, jobs and voting.

Now it is time that we move forward again in still another critical area: health care.
Without adequate health care, no one can make full use of his or her talents and opportunities. It is thus just as important that economic, racial and social barriers not stand in the way of good health care as it is to eliminate those barriers to a good education and a good job.

Three years ago, I proposed a major health insurance program to the Congress, seeking to guarantee adequate financing of health care on a nationwide basis. That proposal generated widespread discussion and useful debate. But no legislation reached my desk……..

–Across the Nation, the average cost of a day of hospital care now exceeds $110.
–The average cost of delivering a baby and providing postnatal care approaches $1,000.
–The average cost of health care for terminal cancer now exceeds $20,000.

BROAD AND BALANCED PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS

Upon adoption of appropriate Federal and State legislation, the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan would offer to every American the same broad and balanced health protection through one of three major programs: ………………….

…….The benefits offered by the three plans would be identical for all Americans, regardless of age or income. Benefits would be provided for:
–hospital care;
–physicians’ care in and out of the hospital;
–prescription and life-saving drugs;
–laboratory tests and X-rays;
–medical devices;
–ambulance services; and,
–other ancillary health care.

There would be no exclusions of coverage based on the nature of the illness. For example, a person with heart disease would qualify for benefits as would a person with kidney disease.       

In addition, CHIP would cover treatment for mental illness, alcoholism and drug addiction, whether that treatment were provided in hospitals and physicians’ offices or in community based settings.

Under the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan, a doctor’s decisions could be based on the health care needs of his patients, not on health insurance coverage. This difference is essential for quality care.

Every American participating in the program would be insured for catastrophic illnesses that can eat away savings and plunge individuals and families into hopeless debt for years. No family would ever have annual out-of-pocket expenses for covered health services in excess of $1,500, and low-income families would face substantially smaller expenses.

As part of this program, every American who participates in the program would receive a Health-card when the plan goes into effect in his State. This card, similar to a credit card, would be honored by hospitals, nursing homes, emergency rooms, doctors, and clinics across the country. This card could also be used to identify information on blood type and .sensitivity to particular drugs-information which might be important in an emergency.

Bills for the services paid for with the Health-card would be sent to the insurance carrier who would reimburse the provider of the care for covered services, then bill the patient for his share, if any.

The entire program would become effective in 1976, assuming that the plan is promptly enacted by the Congress.
                   


But I think Nixon did not care that much about domestic economic policy.  There was the famous conversation between him and JFK where Kennedy said, “It really is true that foreign affairs is the only important issue for a president to handle, isn’t it? I mean, who gives a shit if the minimum wage is $1.15 or $1.25, in comparison to something like this?”  http://radioboston.legacy.wbur.org/2013/10/09/dallek (http://radioboston.legacy.wbur.org/2013/10/09/dallek) I seriously doubt that Nixon disagreed.  Presidents primarily make their names on foreign policy.  Of course, Nixon (and Kennedy) wanted the economy to perform well and avoid anything they perceived as distractions (e.g. civil rights for both of them).

Credit should be given for the opening of China and the creation of the EPA.  Regarding Vietnam, however, it seems like Nixon actually prolonged the war.  There's good evidence that he sabotaged the Paris Peace Talks in 1968 for electoral advantage. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768668 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768668)  Not to mention the secret bombings and war crimes he committed. 

So why mention Nixon again?  Nixon was the last American liberal President on economic policy, so it provides a nice contrast to climate on economics today.  Also, the thread is about impeachment and Nixon's foreign policy and actions against domestic opposition show how ill-defined grounds for impeachment are.  Nixon got away with war crimes, avoided criminal prosecution, and would have been impeached and convicted for something relatively insignificant compared to his other activities if he had stayed in office. 

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 20, 2017, 02:10:09 PM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 20, 2017, 02:15:33 PM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

Let’s see how this "great" leader and her party do in the next election without moving more to the right.  What’s her new policy on migrants?  Or, is she still maintaining the same policy she had in 2015-2016?

Also, why doesn’t Merkel propose having all foreign troops leave German soil?  Surely, such a great leader does not require foreign troops to defend the country she leads….Or, do we really have to worry that without US being there that Germany would replay January 1933?

Quote
   Germany's Merkel faces harsh new reality in the era of Trump

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/26/germanys-merkel-faces-harsh-new-reality-in-era-trump.html

By Adam Shaw
Published January 26, 2017
FoxNews.com
Facebook0 Twitter0 livefyre5511 Email Print

.....But Merkel's political fortunes have deteriorated. Her ill-fated 2015 decision to open the doors to millions of Syrian refugees fueled a continent-wide crisis, leading in part to the U.K.’s decision to leave the European Union....

After her party was hammered in local elections and her poll numbers slumped ahead of federal elections this year, Merkel has started to distance herself from her refugee policy. As Merkel struggles to keep her grip on power in Germany, and keep the increasingly unstable European Union together, the German chancellor now faces another challenge in Trump – who has made no secret of his distaste for her policies....
   
  Merkel’s refugee policy blamed for loss on her home turf     

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/merkels-refugee-policy-blamed-for-loss-on-her-home-turf/2016/09/05/df887274-87b7-443d-a2ee-fc9d8965a63b_story.html?utm_term=.165382205456

By Anthony Faiola By Anthony Faiola
Europe
September 5, 2016

BERLIN — Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union suffered an embarrassing drubbing in her own constituency on Sunday, with voters in local parliamentary elections kicking the party into third place while giving a boost to her new nemesis: the anti-migrant Alternative for Germany party….

In the vote, the center-left Social Democratic Party came in first with 30.6 percent, followed by the AfD with 20.8 percent. Merkel’s CDU came in third with 19 percent — its worst showing ever in the state......

In the aftermath of the loss, top CDU officials openly blamed Merkel’s refugee policy…..
             
     


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 20, 2017, 02:35:16 PM
And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.

Proportional representation vs electoral college voting?  Democratically elected vs Undemocratically elected?

I understand proportional representation, but she is currently polling behind Martin Schulz. Obviously people aren't that thrilled with her.

And Trump was democratically elected by the rules. Hillary ran to be popular. Trump ran to win.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 20, 2017, 03:36:00 PM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.

She's been chancellor for 12 years. Most leaders would struggle to have overwhelming support after three terms.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 21, 2017, 12:46:17 AM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.

She's been chancellor for 12 years. Most leaders would struggle to have overwhelming support after three terms.

In other words it took 12 years to realize she was shoveling horse manure.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 21, 2017, 03:38:25 AM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.

She's been chancellor for 12 years. Most leaders would struggle to have overwhelming support after three terms.

In other words it took 12 years to realize she was shoveling horse manure.

Unlike Trump whose current approval rating stands at 37% after only about 2 months.

There are some that say Merkel has assumed the role as leader of  the "free world" given the vacuum in Washington at present.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 23, 2017, 09:39:17 AM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.

She's been chancellor for 12 years. Most leaders would struggle to have overwhelming support after three terms.

In other words it took 12 years to realize she was shoveling horse manure.

Unlike Trump whose current approval rating stands at 37% after only about 2 months.

There are some that say Merkel has assumed the role as leader of  the "free world" given the vacuum in Washington at present.

Yeah thats what Brits, Americans, Canadians, Japanese, anf Australians are asking- "What's Merkel's plan. She's the leader."
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 23, 2017, 09:52:15 AM
(http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2017/03/593482582001_5363285899001_5363286865001-vs.jpg)

What a meeting.  One, a dignified stateswoman who's worked her way up to the top and always holds herself with dignity and listens to others.  The other is a narcissistic reality tv celebrity and 'failed' businessman, born into money, who likes nothing better than to always start fights and tell people what's on his stupid mind with twitter.  What an embarrassing mismatch.

And yet she can't pull above around 33% in her country, for all her 'dignity'.

She's been chancellor for 12 years. Most leaders would struggle to have overwhelming support after three terms.

In other words it took 12 years to realize she was shoveling horse manure.
Maybe. But she must have been doing something right to win 3 successive terms.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 23, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
Merkel has assumed the role as leader of  the "free world"

Free world? Lol. Germany is a vassal state of Washington.

The US gets to occupy their country with multiple military bases as well as dictate their foreign policy.
America gets to bomb all kinds of muslim countries and Germany must destroy its society by taking in all the resulting refugees.

What interest does Germany have in moving toward military confrontation with Russia? None. Yet that is the direction Washington is forcing them.

Germany became a vassal at the end of WWII:

Quote

Publication of a book like The German card. The obscure game of secret services, authored by Gerd-Helmut Komossa (Gerd-Helmut Komossa. DIE DEUTSCHE KARTE. Das verdeckte Spiel der geheimen Dienste. Ares-Verlag, Graz 2007. - 230 S.), is an exceptional occurrence. Raising very sensitive issues, the author appeals to the core of German identity that had been deliberately suppressed for decades by the United States and its allies. The book is focused on contradictions between the United States and Germany, sometimes very strong but not supposed to be discussed in public. It was published in Austria, and its distribution in Germany may encounter certain difficulties today. Still, the very fact of its appearance indicates that the German intelligence community is increasingly dissatisfied with the role of a vassal of the United States (the definition applied to Europe by Zbigniew Brzezinski), imposed on Western Germany after World War II. Gerd-Helmut Komossa reveals the uncomfortable truth about the post-war conditions, dictated by the US and its allies. The state treaty, dated May 21, 1949 and classified by BND as top secret, suggests restrictions of state sovereignty of the Federal Republic of Germany, introduced for a period until 2099. These restrictions include the provision that the winning coalition exercise complete control over Germany's mass media and communications; that every Federal Chancellor is to sign the so-called Chancellor Act; that the gold reserve of Germany is kept under arrest. In fact, all the German Chancellors, including the incumbent Chancellor Angela Merkel, pay their first foreign visit necessarily to the United States. The whole spectrum of German political parties is supervised by a special Washington-based controlling body, while local US-licensed media serve as a more sophisticated means of brainwashing than the Nazi propagandist machine. Meanwhile, Germany's territory is still occupied by US troops. This astonishing picture is not a fancy concoction of a political leftist. It is drawn by a military man whose mind has accumulated the experience of several crucial stages of development of the European civilization and Germany in particular. Gen. (Ret.) Gerd-Helmut Komossa took part in World War II and later in the Cold War. Possessing huge amounts of information, he analyzes the existing mechanisms of global policy with strong criticism. Joining the Wehrmacht in 1943 as a volunteer, Komossa served at the Eastern front. Between May 1945 and April 1949, he was a prisoner of war. In the USSR, he got acquainted with many Russians who appeared to be quite different from the image imposed by the official Nazi propaganda. Since 1956, he served in the German Bundeswehr, re-established under certain conditions. The abovementioned secret treaty admitted that the German sovereignty is sufficient for the right to build up military forces. According to the Constitution, the troops of the Federal Republic of Germany are carrying put exceptionally defensive functions. However, the Western coalition was pursuing different goals. It needed an army in new uniforms but with the same skills as the Nazi soldiers, perfectly fighting on land, on sea and in the air, and irrecusably abiding orders. Such a type of soldier was essential not only for the occasion of possible military collision with the Soviet bloc but also for fulfilling global missions. The coalition required at least 500,000 German soldiers. In addition, the newly-built army was supposed to purchase weapons and materiel solely from the United States. During the last two decades, Washington has been trying to force Germany into military partnership in globalistic control. However, the massive effort to get Germany involved in US operations in Somali and Bosnia, as well as in campaigns in Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan, has brought about a reverse result, sparking a shift in approach in German strategic circles. The implicit discontent with American policy and essential difference in views on the role of the German people in current history eventually reached a critical dimension. Since mid-1990s, the attitude of many German military to the United States, and significantly also towards NATO, has essentially changed. Though most of the German officers were not originally inclined against America, a lot of them being educated in the United States, they are now experiencing disappointment and even disgust with Washington's policies. These officers realize that the hegemonistic policy is destined for destruction of socioeconomic systems of particular nations and whole regions, while the so-called order Washington is trying to impose is just a synonym for chaos. Gerd-Helmut Komossa, in his former capacity of MAD (Military Counterintelligence) Director, was frequently called "a soldier with political thinking". Today, he openly denounces the Bundeswehr's involvement in foreign interventions, referring to the army's constitutional duties. Meanwhile, Washington urges Germans to go fighting. Conceding to the pressure, Berlin deployed a contingent of troops to Afghanistan. But even this was not sufficient for NATO bosses. Recently, NATO General Secretary Jaap de Hoop Scheffer accused the Bundeswehr of idleness in military operations in the region, and insisted that Germany "increase flexibility" and expand its military mission to the southern regions of Afghanistan. In his book, Komossa inquires whether the state of affairs when young Germans are recruited in the national army for fulfilling overseas goals for other nations, could be acceptable. The map of operations, supposed to involve German troops, far exceeds the European continent, and has nothing to do with German national interests. "Do Germans expect this from the Bundeswehr? Would they like their soldiers to be called assassins again?" he asks. However, the United States and its allies don't care much for moral problems. As the secret treaty is valid until 2099, Germans are supposed to go and fight where they are told to. The German audience will require certain time to digest the shocking information disclosed by General Komossa. But eventually, the nation with a great cultural and historical tradition will hardly agree to continue tolerating the American loop on its throat for decades more. The publication of Komossa's "German Card" is one more proof of the world's transformation into a multipolar system. It indicates that Germany is likely to achieve complete sovereignty without waiting for eighty years.
 (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-183232)

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 12:01:16 AM
More Bannon Sun Tzu moves, what Trumpers are calling 4D chess.

Play dumb against larger (but arrogant) opponents, make “stupid emotional moves”, drawing their attacks to your “weakness”, let them dig themselves in deep and become concentrated at that one location...then spring the trap door.

Everyone falllllling doooowwwnnn!!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/house-intel-chairman-trump-s-communications-possibly-picked-incidental-surveillance-n737201
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Adel on March 24, 2017, 03:27:01 AM
Ah yes, a stunning level of incompetence!
About all Nunes has achieved is a demonstration in his inability to chair an independent  intelligence congressional committee and hence the need for the matter to be dealt with by an independent select committee, at the very least, if not a special prosecutor.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 06:35:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQbGQvwkw7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpV6OlaVEuE
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 24, 2017, 07:50:56 AM

I wasn't for Trump, but I have to admit, he's taking a page from Obama's book - making huge elections promises, but bringing more of the same, or perhaps something that's even worse.

His budget proposal is a total joke - military budget up, everything else down.

Having said that, the elites should be quite content with his proposals - so I don't see an impeachment happening.

As far as his foreign policy is concerned, he's so busy battling the democrat allegations of being a Russian agent, that he's made no moves at all, which is actually a significant improvement from the Obama days - Obama kept creeping closer and closer to entering a military conflict with China/Russia.

In any case, the winning elections template has been set by Obama/Trump. Make huge promises, then backtrack everything you said after winning. I expect the next elections to be won by another 'change' person - leading to no change at all. It's like groundhog day - every 4 years.


 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: waygo0k on March 24, 2017, 08:04:46 AM
Obama kept creeping closer to military conflict with Russia/china?

He had multiple chances to engage them in Ukraine, Syria and even Georgia...yet decided not to do so at the outrage of those opposed to him.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 08:50:34 AM
In any case, the winning elections template has been set by Obama/Trump. Make huge promises, then backtrack everything you said after winning. I expect the next elections to be won by another 'change' person - leading to no change at all. It's like groundhog day - every 4 years.

Are you kidding me? Obama was an honest person. How did he backtrack on everything he said exactly? Republicans controlled the other branches of government for most of the time, obstructing him. Nevertheless, he was able to able to bring the country further to the left. Obama was an improvement over G.W. Trump the opposite. Much worse than Obama.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 24, 2017, 08:59:00 AM
Obama kept creeping closer to military conflict with Russia/china?

He had multiple chances to engage them in Ukraine, Syria and even Georgia...yet decided not to do so at the outrage of those opposed to him.

Agreed. The one person in the Obama administration who wasn't beating the drums of war in Syria and Iran was Obama himself. Clinton on the other hand was chomping at the bit to do that.

Part of me wonders if one of the reasons Obama didn't make a bigger stink of the Russian stuff or do anything else was that in spite of the desire to keep his legacy, he also was deeply concerned about Hillary and her foreign policy and agreed with Trump on having a better working relationship with Russia.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 09:33:46 AM
Having said that, the elites should be quite content with his proposals - so I don't see an impeachment happening.

Right. The Republicans control the House and Senate. So...no impeachment.

Republicans and Democats- very different. They're not the same thing.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 09:37:16 AM
Clinton on the other hand was chomping at the bit to do that.

Acording to Zero Hedge, Info Wars, Russian Times, and other alt-right sites... :rolleyes:

Obama wanted Clinton, not Trump to be president. Strongly. He and his wife campaigned for her.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 01:26:30 PM
TRUMP AGAINST THE LIBERAL ESTABLISHMENT!  :laugh:

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/31e010b64abcf8880f13ca9fb78d3eb8844c1078819f4926c787041274e9398a.gif)

It's just an awesome display of long-game strategy and offensive/defensive tactics, nobody knows what's going on, no players currently on the battlefield have any chance.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 01:37:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/o8u41yd.png)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9e/d5/50/9ed5503ecf5359319b3cf61c6b7e1f9d.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 24, 2017, 02:00:15 PM
Acording to Zero Hedge, Info Wars, Russian Times, and other alt-right sites... :rolleyes:

Obama wanted Clinton, not Trump to be president. Strongly. He and his wife campaigned for her.

Actually more like according to the Washington Post, the New York Times, and so on.

Go read about things before the presidential campaign even started. They talk extensively about this. But that would require actually being informed and staying informed, not just seeing Trump and flipping your lid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/politics/obama-said-to-resist-growing-pressure-from-all-sides-to-arm-ukraine.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/obama-proposes-new-military-partnership-with-russia-in-syria/2016/06/29/8e8b2e2a-3e3f-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html?utm_term=.56278effd484

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-syria-obama-214182

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/06/09/the-6-big-issues-where-hillary-clinton-and-barack-oabma-disagree/?utm_term=.14b1c39dd7c1

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/how-hillary-clinton-would-alter-president-obama-s-foreign-policy-n589871

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/defying-obama-many-in-congress-press-to-arm-ukraine.html?_r=0

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/syria-exposes-split-between-obama-and-clinton.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/us/debate-syria-trump-clinton.html

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/hillary-clinton-is-no-obama

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/08/10/hillary-clinton-splits-with-obama-on-foreign-policy/

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-responds-clinton-syria


Obama had to campaign for her of course, he's a Democrat after all and did not like Trump, but there was a reason he didn't push the Russian angle.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 02:42:10 PM
Acording to Zero Hedge...

Speaking of Zero Hedge, the intellectual reasons behind the MAGA revolution. Leftists can't defend against this stuff (reasoning)...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-23/six-dangerous-leftist-concepts?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 02:54:51 PM
Ivandjiiski has a multimillion-dollar mansion in Mahwah, N.J., and Backshall lives in a plush San Francisco suburb—not exactly reflections of Pitt's anticapitalist icon. “What you are reading at Zero Hedge is nonsense. And you shouldn’t support it,” Lokey wrote in an e-mail. “Two guys who live a lifestyle you only dream of are pretending to speak for you.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/unmasking-the-men-behind-zero-hedge-wall-street-s-renegade-blog

“I can’t be a 24-hour cheerleader for Hezbollah, Moscow, Tehran, Beijing, and Trump anymore. It’ s wrong. Period. I know it gets you views now, but it will kill your brand over the long run,” Lokey texted Ivandjiiski. “This isn’t a revolution. It’s a joke.”
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 24, 2017, 02:59:12 PM
Ivandjiiski has a multimillion-dollar mansion in Mahwah, N.J., and Backshall lives in a plush San Francisco suburb—not exactly reflections of Pitt's anticapitalist icon. “What you are reading at Zero Hedge is nonsense. And you shouldn’t support it,” Lokey wrote in an e-mail. “Two guys who live a lifestyle you only dream of are pretending to speak for you.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/unmasking-the-men-behind-zero-hedge-wall-street-s-renegade-blog

“I can’t be a 24-hour cheerleader for Hezbollah, Moscow, Tehran, Beijing, and Trump anymore. It’ s wrong. Period. I know it gets you views now, but it will kill your brand over the long run,” Lokey texted Ivandjiiski. “This isn’t a revolution. It’s a joke.”

Ignores MSM confirming Obama-Clinton-Russia angle. Continues attacking those who disagree as gobbling up ZeroHedge, RT, and InfoWars
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 03:04:51 PM
Ptolemy, maximmm, Aurata, etc. love those sites though, frequently citing them. To your credit, you don't. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 24, 2017, 03:12:52 PM
Ptolemy, maximmm, Aurata, etc. love those sites though, frequently citing them. To your credit, you don't.

I distrust right-wing media on most things, but that doesn't mean that what they write should be automatically dismissed. You have to read it and see. A lot of times its junk. Sometimes its not.

As for the MSM and of course, the leftist media, where they fail is not so much in printing untrue stuff like the right does, but they are very selective in what stories they chose to publish and give emphasis to. You'll find good reporting and facts (though since the election there has been a perceptible decline), but they can ignore stories that don't fit the narrative (of course the right does this).

And yes, people from the right need to stop linking those sites when they're trying to make a point. It convinces no one. It's like someone from the left posting links from Jezebel and Salon.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: insulimted on March 24, 2017, 03:24:46 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/o8u41yd.png)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9e/d5/50/9ed5503ecf5359319b3cf61c6b7e1f9d.jpg)

Wait a second, are you an advocate for heavy handed and predictably corrupt bureaucracies or aren't you?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 03:29:50 PM
Ptolemy, maximmm, Aurata, etc. love those sites though, frequently citing them.

On my FB feed I've got Zero hedge, Robert Reich, Breitbart, Bernie Sanders, Milo, Dave Rubin, Classically Liberal. Everyone from right-militant nationals to raging marxists.

Don't be brain dead, get out of your cowardly little Hillary bubble. It's the disinformation age. Everyone is lying. Period. Especially the establishment, as it is terrified of change. All of them occasionally have good points. Mostly it's propaganda / noise.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 03:36:39 PM
I like the EPA.

It's the reason America has air like this:

http://aqicn.org/city/newyork
NYC: 20

And not like this:

http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/
Beijing: 155
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 03:40:52 PM
I like the EPA.

It's the reason America has air like this:

Naw, deconstruction of the administrative state!

That EPA place is massively inefficient, cut the budget, probably the air will be the same. Just like the art will be fine without tax money funding liberal propaganda.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
It's the disinformation age. Everyone is lying. Period. Especially the establishment, as it is terrified of change.

What a bunch of BS. Well, Trump is the establishment now. Is he lying? Yes. But is the mainstream media lying? No. That's how they got to be mainstream. By being reputable enough to get and maintain a large number of sane customers.

In the popular vote Clinton got 65,853,516, compared to 62,984,825 for Trump. She crushed him.

A lot of people got fooled by fake news online...but not nearly enough to make a majority.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 03:44:40 PM
That EPA place is massively inefficient, cut the budget, probably the air will be the same.

Who told you they're inefficient? Trump?

Probably? Do you want to take that chance? That big businesses will not pollute out of the goodness of their hearts?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 03:53:58 PM
It's the disinformation age. Everyone is lying. Period. Especially the establishment, as it is terrified of change.

What a bunch of BS. Well, Trump is the establishment now. Is he lying? Yes. But is the mainstream media lying? No. That's how they got to be mainstream. By being reputable enough to get and maintain a large number of sane customers.

In the popular vote Clinton got 65,853,516, compared to 62,984,825 for Trump. She crushed him.

A lot of people got fooled by fake news online...but not nearly enough to make a majority.

Hehe. Dude. You are young right?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 24, 2017, 04:01:16 PM
Ptolemy, maximmm, Aurata, etc. love those sites though, frequently citing them.

On my FB feed I've got Zero hedge, Robert Reich, Breitbart, Bernie Sanders, Milo, Dave Rubin, Classically Liberal. Everyone from right-militant nationals to raging marxists.

Don't be brain dead, get out of your cowardly little Hillary bubble. It's the disinformation age. Everyone is lying. Period. Especially the establishment, as it is terrified of change. All of them occasionally have good points. Mostly it's propaganda / noise.

Well said. 

It seems like not many people see things for what they are.  During cold war, nothing is what it seems. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 24, 2017, 07:37:20 PM
A lot of people got fooled by fake news online...but not nearly enough to make a majority.

Hilary got the majority vote.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 24, 2017, 07:58:06 PM
Hilary got the majority vote.

Not according to you...in the past. Remember that one?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 24, 2017, 09:48:30 PM
Obama kept creeping closer to military conflict with Russia/china?

He had multiple chances to engage them in Ukraine, Syria and even Georgia...yet decided not to do so at the outrage of those opposed to him.

Agreed. The one person in the Obama administration who wasn't beating the drums of war in Syria and Iran was Obama himself. Clinton on the other hand was chomping at the bit to do that.

Part of me wonders if one of the reasons Obama didn't make a bigger stink of the Russian stuff or do anything else was that in spite of the desire to keep his legacy, he also was deeply concerned about Hillary and her foreign policy and agreed with Trump on having a better working relationship with Russia.

Well, I disagree.  He might not have pulled the bigger triggered, he kept putting more oil into the fire.  There are two big questions to consider - how big of a role did the USA (under Obama) play in instigating the big events in Ukraine and Syria? 

I'd argue that it played a major role in both crises and Russia simply responded.  As time went on, the US and Russia made more moves against each other, thereby leading to the second cold war. 

Still, it's clear that Obama wasn't the only one playing, and might not have been the one in charge of recommencing the cold war, but he most certainly played along - https://www.thenation.com/article/might-neo-mccarthyism-mean-war-vs-russia/

Perhaps getting close to a military conflict but never commencing one was the plan all along? 

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 24, 2017, 10:31:14 PM
Blaming Obama for Putin being a landgrabbing thug is so goddamn stupid. Boo hoo, you got sanctioned for invading your neighbors, shooting down a passenger plane and killing a bunch of dissidents and journalists. What did you expect, a pat on the back?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 24, 2017, 10:31:31 PM
He had multiple chances to engage them in Ukraine, Syria and even Georgia...yet decided not to do so at the outrage of those opposed to him.

Of course he wasn't going to "engage" Russia in military warfare  :rolleyes: unless he wanted to commit suicide.


Perhaps getting close to a military conflict but never commencing one was the plan all along?

The neocons never wanted to make peace with Russia, even in Reagans time. The cold war is too profitable, the military industrial complex need a threat to justify their massive annual budget.

Do the globalists want a nuclear war? No: they may be crazy but they're not that stupid. Ok there are a tiny minority of neocon nutbars who actually do, they think WW3 would be survivable.

 But mostly they just want to keep isolating and ramping up pressure on Russia until it surrenders and accepts American hegemony. A one-world government with American elites in control has long been the goal of the globalists.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2017, 10:33:43 PM
A lot of people got fooled by fake news online...but not nearly enough to make a majority.

Hilary got the majority vote.

HA! Score!!  :laugh:

I was looking over the right's media battle tactics today. There's a whole web involving Mercer the quant guy, Media Research Center, Heritage Foundation, Breitbart, Bannon, etc. They really figured out the proper response -- the national media is the propaganda arm of the left, competing ideologies are NOT going to get a seat at THEIR table, so fund your own table!

We're going to see a huge amount of non-liberal ideology media startups, and established startups shooting up the charts. Destroyed trust in mainstream media drives alternatives. Now 74% of Americans under 50 don't trusts MSM.

(http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/3tq9inhrquecdyh0rjjtua.png)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on March 24, 2017, 10:38:30 PM
I heard a podcast today on Democracy Now that talked about the exact same stuff.

I bet Mercer owns a perfectly kept white cat.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on March 25, 2017, 08:30:31 AM
After Trump's spectacular failure on healthcare and grandstanding threats against his own party, the clock is now ticking on his presidency. Getting rid of Obamacare was priority 1 for the GOP. This kind of failure, incompetence, bullying, and humiliation won't be tolerated.

I expect impeachment proceedings to begin before the midterm elections.

Republicans in congress want to keep their jobs.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 25, 2017, 10:45:48 AM
After Trump's spectacular failure on healthcare and grandstanding threats against his own party, the clock is now ticking on his presidency. Getting rid of Obamacare was priority 1 for the GOP. This kind of failure, incompetence, bullying, and humiliation won't be tolerated.

I expect impeachment proceedings to begin before the midterm elections.

Republicans in congress want to keep their jobs.

I don't think that's what happened at all nor what the political climate is.

This was a bill designed to fail. Paul Ryan took one for the team. There was no way to get moderates+the Freedom Caucus on board with the same bill. Siding with either faction would be too big of a political price. Essentially all sides get to declare victory (or at least 'we did our best') and go home. They can move on to something else and thanks to Trump's penchant for showmanship, be assured in the fact that this will have faded from memory in 2018.

For Trump, it should be noted that he did not refer to this plan as TrumpCare. This, the man who has pitched Trump Airlines, Trump Tower, Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump Casino, Trump Hotel, etc. He didn't call it TrumpCare. Think about that. That says all you need to know about what Trump really thought. I'm willing to bet that he comes back a bit later with his own proposal that is much more modest in scope and targets a few specific areas of reform where he can get broad consensus. His comments at today's presser seemed to hint at that.

Trump and the Republicans are playing the long game. They have done well in outmaneuvering the Democrats since 2000. They somehow managed to recover from W. Bush with only one two year period of unified Democratic control, during which the Dems accomplished Obamacare and little else. Yes they lost the presidency twice to Obama, but Obama was a unique figure that had JFK levels of charisma. Nothing could be done. In the meantime they went about dominating state and local government.

As for Trump he started his birther long-con way back when. Do you honestly think Trump thought Obama was a Kenyan? Of course not. He set that up for a long-term payoff in the sphere of politics. He chose the right time and the right message for someone like him to win. He couldn't have won in 2012, the rage at the global elite hadn't exploded and Obama was a formidable opponent. Whether Trump wanted to actually win or not is unknown, but one thing I think Trump understood is that no matter how the race went, it could be a "win" for him depending on how he framed things. Finish 2nd in the primary? Great, time to get the TrumpTV network going. Lose to Clinton? Be a major voice in the party AND get TrumpTV going, likely with a bigger following, possibly set up Ivanka/Eric for politics. Win? He already has money. He already has fame. Now he has power. The man has the trifecta and he just won the biggest upset in electoral history, forever changed US politics, shattered both political parties, and made the world tremble.

The biggest mistake the opposition has done is to underestimate him and consider him incompetent and stupid. As long as people do that, Trump will survive and likely win. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 25, 2017, 01:51:32 PM
Another Trump/Bannon strategic win. Basically what the above post already says, but my own read...

They ran something they knew could never pass, and didn’t even give it a vote to be sure. Now that is off the table forever, good. Now alt-right wages full war on Ryan (this was always a knife in the back move, they want him gone but Trump had to be seen as being supportive). Trump watches Obamacare burn, and tweets about it while eating his steak and catchup, for years. Eventually public rage and political pressure grows to where it is time to put thru their real plan. Probably something "deconstruction of the administrative state" related. This is long-game negotiation.

“Trump has said more than once that politically speaking, the easiest choice for Republicans would be to sit back and let the system operate on its own. Doing so, Trump predicted, would lead to a total collapse.” -HuffPo

ALSO, everyone who reads "alt-news" already knew what was happening. It was obvious from day one. It's only the MSM brainwashed dolts who have no clue what is happening. This keeps driving people to check alt-news to get in the loop, which grows their marketshare while stealing from CNN/NYT marketshare.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 25, 2017, 03:46:47 PM
President "Art of the Deal" Trump just lost bigly on TrumpCare/RyanCare. Couldn't work out the plans for the bestest health insurance plan ever...i.e the plans sucked and the Republicans sunk it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 25, 2017, 05:13:36 PM
After Trump's spectacular failure on healthcare and grandstanding threats against his own party, the clock is now ticking on his presidency.

You don't seem to get that the clock was ticking from the moment he was elected.

Even before that... from the moment he became a serious contender to oppose Hilary.

Trump threatened the power and profits of the military/ security complex and Wall Street.  That was enough for the elites to declare war on him. Using their tools the CIA, FBI, NSA, democrats, John McCain etc, they have managed to completely box him in by portraying him as in collusion with a foreign power to steal the election. These corrupt "intelligence" agencies still cannot provide an ounce of evidence to prove their claims.

The real issue americans should be concerned with is not a Trump/Putin conspiracy to steal the presidential election.

It is the blatant collusion between Hilary's forces, the mainstream media and the CIA, first to steal the democratic nomination from Bernie Sanders, then the presidential election from Trump; then to delegitimize Trump’s election, then to cripple his presidency.

Trumps presidency is basically over, he has been reduced to a pathetic shadow. His mistake was to challenge the elites before he had a team or organization in place to oppose them.


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 25, 2017, 05:38:55 PM
Did you get that information from RT? (The Russian government dislikes Clinton.)

Why Putin Hates Clinton and Helped Trump Win

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/why-putin-hates-clinton-and-helped-trump-win

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 25, 2017, 06:46:16 PM
Why Putin Hates Clinton and Helped Trump Win

Lol who's the conspiracy theorist now?


Quote
https://www.vice. com

Ah.. a freaky neoliberal government mouthpiece website.


Quote
Did you get that information from RT?


Actually from common sense.

You don't need to look at a Russian website to notice the blatant nonsense now rampant in the mainstream media, my friend.


Quote
(The Russian government dislikes Clinton.)

You don't say. Maybe because she threatened them with war?


Quote
The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia

 Even as relations between Russia and the West have sunk to new lows in the wake of 2014’s revolution in Ukraine, the Kremlin has long contended that a Cold War II is impossible. That’s because, while there may be differences over, say, the fate of Donetsk, there is no longer a fundamental ideological struggle dividing East and West. To Russian ears, Clinton seemed determined in her speech to provide this missing ingredient for bipolar enmity, painting Moscow as the vanguard for racism, intolerance, and misogyny around the globe.

The nation Clinton described was unrecognizable to its citizens. Anti-woman? Putin’s government provides working mothers with three years of subsidized family leave. Intolerant? The president personally attended the opening of Moscow’s great mosque. Racist? Putin often touts Russia’s ethnic diversity. To Russians, it appeared that Clinton was straining to fabricate a rationale for hostilities.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 25, 2017, 07:43:15 PM
Ah.. a freaky neoliberal government mouthpiece website.

It's a Canadian company...that started as a counter culture punk rock skateboarding magazine  from what I remember.

Look at their newest video. It's about why Mexico should legalize marijuana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tB6zg8jPZs
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 25, 2017, 09:41:32 PM
Why Putin Hates Clinton and Helped Trump Win

Lol who's the conspiracy theorist now?


Quote
https://www.vice. com

Ah.. a freaky neoliberal government mouthpiece website.


Quote
Did you get that information from RT?


Actually from common sense.

You don't need to look at a Russian website to notice the blatant nonsense now rampant in the mainstream media, my friend.


Quote
(The Russian government dislikes Clinton.)

You don't say. Maybe because she threatened them with war?


Quote
The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia

 Even as relations between Russia and the West have sunk to new lows in the wake of 2014’s revolution in Ukraine, the Kremlin has long contended that a Cold War II is impossible. That’s because, while there may be differences over, say, the fate of Donetsk, there is no longer a fundamental ideological struggle dividing East and West. To Russian ears, Clinton seemed determined in her speech to provide this missing ingredient for bipolar enmity, painting Moscow as the vanguard for racism, intolerance, and misogyny around the globe.

The nation Clinton described was unrecognizable to its citizens. Anti-woman? Putin’s government provides working mothers with three years of subsidized family leave. Intolerant? The president personally attended the opening of Moscow’s great mosque. Racist? Putin often touts Russia’s ethnic diversity. To Russians, it appeared that Clinton was straining to fabricate a rationale for hostilities.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/)

Two legs good! Four legs bad! Some Ukrainians are more equal than others!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 25, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9D3556m4PQ
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 25, 2017, 11:18:40 PM
Ah.. a freaky neoliberal government mouthpiece website.

It's a Canadian company...that started as a counter culture punk rock skateboarding magazine  from what I remember.

...and then became a neoliberal propaganda site.


Quote
VICE’s Fall From Counterculture Hipster Rag To Neoliberal Government Mouthpiece

Robbie Martin, director of the documentary series ‘A Very Heavy Agenda,’ joins Mnar Muhawesh on ‘Behind the Headline’ to discuss how VICE became a government lapdog

While positioning itself as a ballsy, no-holds-barred alternative to the mainstream media, it’s actually become the mainstream media. VICE Media hasn’t just sold itself out to the neocon agenda, it’s also normalized that agenda among its audience through its growing digital platform.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/vices-fall-counterculture-hipster-rag-neoliberal-government-mouthpiece/220431/ (http://www.mintpressnews.com/vices-fall-counterculture-hipster-rag-neoliberal-government-mouthpiece/220431/)

In any case..you've sidetracked onto irrelevancies as you always do.

Where was I? Ah..here:

After Trump's spectacular failure on healthcare and grandstanding threats against his own party, the clock is now ticking on his presidency.

You don't seem to get that the clock was ticking from the moment he was elected.

Even before that... from the moment he became a serious contender to oppose Hilary.

Trump threatened the power and profits of the military/ security complex and Wall Street.  That was enough for the elites to declare war on him. Using their tools the CIA, FBI, NSA, democrats, John McCain etc, they have managed to completely box him in by portraying him as in collusion with a foreign power to steal the election. These corrupt "intelligence" agencies still cannot provide an ounce of evidence to prove their claims.

The real issue americans should be concerned with is not a Trump/Putin conspiracy to steal the presidential election.

It is the blatant collusion between Hilary's forces, the mainstream media and the CIA, first to steal the democratic nomination from Bernie Sanders, then the presidential election from Trump; then to delegitimize Trump’s election, then to cripple his presidency.

Trumps presidency is basically over, he has been reduced to a pathetic shadow. His mistake was to challenge the elites before he had a team or organization in place to oppose them.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 26, 2017, 01:20:56 AM


Trump threatened the power and profits of the military/ security complex and Wall Street.  That was enough for the elites to declare war on him.

Trumps presidency is basically over, he has been reduced to a pathetic shadow. His mistake was to challenge the elites before he had a team or organization in place to oppose them.

Not really - his new budget is all military and little else.  If nothing else, he is now in cahoots with the military complex.  I wonder if what happened to him is what happened to Obama? 
Obama started off with a similar 'change' platform (which even got him a nobel peace prize) and then did a U-turn. 

Either they were both always in cahoots with the elites and were lying their arses off, or they got blackmailed/pressured by the elites into submission after winning the elections. 
Title: The Art of the Deal?
Post by: Adel on March 26, 2017, 01:24:43 AM



Where was I? Ah..here:


You don't seem to get that the clock was ticking from the moment he was elected.

Even before that... from the moment he became a serious contender to oppose Hilary.

Trump threatened the power and profits of the military/ security complex and Wall Street.  That was enough for the elites to declare war on him. Using their tools the CIA, FBI, NSA, democrats, John McCain etc, they have managed to completely box him in by portraying him as in collusion with a foreign power to steal the election. These corrupt "intelligence" agencies still cannot provide an ounce of evidence to prove their claims.

The real issue americans should be concerned with is not a Trump/Putin conspiracy to steal the presidential election.

It is the blatant collusion between Hilary's forces, the mainstream media and the CIA, first to steal the democratic nomination from Bernie Sanders, then the presidential election from Trump; then to delegitimize Trump’s election, then to cripple his presidency.

Trumps presidency is basically over, he has been reduced to a pathetic shadow. His mistake was to challenge the elites before he had a team or organization in place to oppose them.

I hear ya comrade. Dealing with independent members of political parties and democratic institutions like the congress is such a pain in the arse. Isn't it a pity Trump can't just eliminate his opposition (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/31/15/2AD317DB00000578-0-_Liquidised_Russian_President_Vladimir_Putin_personally_ordered_-m-15_1438354082421.jpg) like comrade Putin does (http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2015/2/28/89d6cebace084f96aae3272bbf56d89d_18.jpg) in 'democratic' mother Russia
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2017, 03:39:38 AM
President "Art of the Deal" Trump just lost bigly on TrumpCare/RyanCare. Couldn't work out the plans for the bestest health insurance plan ever...i.e the plans sucked and the Republicans sunk it.

That's not what happened at all. You can't even get basic factual elements right,

The bill was drafted and brought forth by Paul Ryan. Trump gave it his basic blessing and sat on the sidelines during the opening negotiation phase and then joined in to push for it at the end. The bill was doomed because it satisfied neither the moderates in the GOP nor the Freedom Caucus, both of which had enough votes to sink it on their own.

Why Putin Hates Clinton and Helped Trump Win

Lol who's the conspiracy theorist now?


Quote
https://www.vice. com

Ah.. a freaky neoliberal government mouthpiece website.


Quote
Did you get that information from RT?


Actually from common sense.

You don't need to look at a Russian website to notice the blatant nonsense now rampant in the mainstream media, my friend.


Quote
(The Russian government dislikes Clinton.)

You don't say. Maybe because she threatened them with war?


Quote
The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia

 Even as relations between Russia and the West have sunk to new lows in the wake of 2014’s revolution in Ukraine, the Kremlin has long contended that a Cold War II is impossible. That’s because, while there may be differences over, say, the fate of Donetsk, there is no longer a fundamental ideological struggle dividing East and West. To Russian ears, Clinton seemed determined in her speech to provide this missing ingredient for bipolar enmity, painting Moscow as the vanguard for racism, intolerance, and misogyny around the globe.

The nation Clinton described was unrecognizable to its citizens. Anti-woman? Putin’s government provides working mothers with three years of subsidized family leave. Intolerant? The president personally attended the opening of Moscow’s great mosque. Racist? Putin often touts Russia’s ethnic diversity. To Russians, it appeared that Clinton was straining to fabricate a rationale for hostilities.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/)

Two legs good! Four legs bad! Some Ukrainians are more equal than others!

I have a question for you Russia haters- Are you willing to go to war with Russia over some border dispute with Georgia? Do you actually think Putin is going to blitz into Poland?

Would you go fight and die Tatarian independence? Would you send your children to do so?

Then why do you back this anti-Russia nonsense?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 26, 2017, 07:33:43 AM
President "Art of the Deal" Trump just lost bigly on TrumpCare/RyanCare. Couldn't work out the plans for the bestest health insurance plan ever...i.e the plans sucked and the Republicans sunk it.

That's not what happened at all. You can't even get basic factual elements right,

The bill was drafted and brought forth by Paul Ryan. Trump gave it his basic blessing and sat on the sidelines during the opening negotiation phase and then joined in to push for it at the end. The bill was doomed because it satisfied neither the moderates in the GOP nor the Freedom Caucus, both of which had enough votes to sink it on their own.

Hahah, rebuked by the Steels about facts. Not sure what part of my post you are denying as "factual".

"The bill was drafted and brought forth by Paul Ryan." = RyanCare
"Trump gave it his basic blessing and sat on the sidelines during the opening negotiation phase and then joined in to push for it at the end." = RyanCare = TrumpCare
"The bill was doomed because it satisfied neither the moderates in the GOP nor the Freedom Caucus, both of which had enough votes to sink it on their own. " = the plans sucked and the Republicans sunk it.

Who knew Health Insurance could be so complicated? Trump clearly didn't.

"We're going to have insurance for everybody," Trump told The Washington Post. "There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us."
"[They] can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better," he said.

Again, he failed bigly.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 26, 2017, 07:42:35 AM
I have a question for you Russia haters- Are you willing to go to war with Russia over some border dispute with Georgia? Do you actually think Putin is going to blitz into Poland?

Would you go fight and die Tatarian independence? Would you send your children to do so?

Then why do you back this anti-Russia nonsense?

There will be no war with Russia. 'Murica's much stronger and Putin knows it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 26, 2017, 07:48:49 AM
Trump threatened the power and profits of the military/ security complex and Wall Street.  That was enough for the elites to declare war on him.

Trumps presidency is basically over, he has been reduced to a pathetic shadow. His mistake was to challenge the elites before he had a team or organization in place to oppose them.

Not really - his new budget is all military and little else.  If nothing else, he is now in cahoots with the military complex.  I wonder if what happened to him is what happened to Obama? 
Obama started off with a similar 'change' platform (which even got him a nobel peace prize) and then did a U-turn. 

Either they were both always in cahoots with the elites and were lying their arses off, or they got blackmailed/pressured by the elites into submission after winning the elections.

You actually believe that? How about reading the consensus of educated scholars next time rather than the clickbait fake news of zero hedge?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 26, 2017, 08:03:56 AM
The gig had a certain formula, he told Bloomberg: “Russia=good. Obama=idiot. Bashar al-Assad=benevolent leader. John Kerry= dunce. Vladimir Putin=greatest leader in the history of statecraft.” For Zero Hedge, Syria was a special obsession, a sign of the essential strength of authoritarian regimes and the weakness of democracies. (“Putin Is Winning the Final Chess Match with Obama,” one Zero Hedge article claimed last fall.) The pace of the propaganda was too much for Lokey; last month, he checked himself into a hospital, believing he was on the verge of a panic attack. The populism seemed false to him.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjamin-wallace-wells/is-the-alt-right-for-real
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2017, 11:18:58 AM

Hahah, rebuked by the Steels about facts. Not sure what part of my post you are denying as "factual".

"The bill was drafted and brought forth by Paul Ryan." = RyanCare
"Trump gave it his basic blessing and sat on the sidelines during the opening negotiation phase and then joined in to push for it at the end." = RyanCare = TrumpCare
"The bill was doomed because it satisfied neither the moderates in the GOP nor the Freedom Caucus, both of which had enough votes to sink it on their own. " = the plans sucked and the Republicans sunk it.

Who knew Health Insurance could be so complicated? Trump clearly didn't.

"We're going to have insurance for everybody," Trump told The Washington Post. "There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us."
"[They] can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better," he said.

Again, he failed bigly.

You're not understanding the situation-

Here's the dilemma- The Republicans and Trump have a base that demands full repeal. They also know that in so doing, they would suffer severe electoral consequences from moderates and independents. How do you fulfill this campaign promise without suffering the electoral consequences?

You put forward a plan that's designed to fail. Any plan put forward would be unacceptable to either the moderates OR the Freedom Caucus. Both have enough strength to torpedo the bill. You do this, say you made the best effort, pull it, and essentially pull a Vietnam and declare victory (or at least you fought the good fight) and go home. Neither the base nor the swings that backed you will abandon you wholesale. Furthermore, you can then go back at a later date with a much more modest plan that has broad appeal and get a victory. The base will take what it can get and the proposals will be of the kind that make it hard for the Dems/moderates can oppose, like state competition and letting in Canadian drugs.

You're also ignoring the broader strategic concern- The upcoming Gorsuch nomination. THAT is the big enchilada. It is the one where Republicans are unified, it is where they are ready to go to war, it is the one where moderate Dems are in a bind. They need the political capital and the unity of purpose to do this and to overcome the Democratic filibuster. That 5-4 majority (and future SCOTUS nominations) are far more important than this Obamacare measure.

And yes, RyanCare is not Trumpcare. Just as McCain-Feingold, Dodd-Frank, etc. belong to Congress, not the president.

It is far better to have plans withdrawn because of pressure from your own base than the opposition.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 26, 2017, 11:22:48 AM
I have a question for you Russia haters- Are you willing to go to war with Russia over some border dispute with Georgia? Do you actually think Putin is going to blitz into Poland?

Would you go fight and die Tatarian independence? Would you send your children to do so?

Then why do you back this anti-Russia nonsense?

There will be no war with Russia. 'Murica's much stronger and Putin knows it.

I agree we are much stronger, but there are certain red lines. Like if the U.S. pledged to intervene militarily on behalf of people in Crimea, then there would be war. Usually regimes are willing to go to war against a stronger nation when doing so would impose upon them such costs in either prestige or territory (or both) that doing nothing would be unacceptable.

Why keep poking the Russian bear? Is Putin the next Hitler? Is he about to storm through Poland? Who has been expanding and gobbling up territory? In Georgia and Ukraine the Russians are supporting ethnic Russians who want independence and their own state. In the case of Crimea, we're talking about a naval base that's the equivalent of Pearl Harbor and the Panama Canal rolled into one. It is not something they are going to give up. You're only seeing the West's own selfish interests, not the interests of the Russian people.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: dandred on March 26, 2017, 12:06:08 PM
The finger pointing blame game!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/24/us/politics/100000005008711.mobile.html?_r=0
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 26, 2017, 01:16:08 PM
Unfortunately, for the people of the Ukraine/Crimea and Georgia the US should yell and scream, possibly consider economic sanctions, but not really consider any type of military options.  This has always been a Russian/Soviet sphere of influence “area.”  And, like it or not in the “real” world some people’s freedom may get sacrificed for the interest of the “big” picture. 

Furthermore, anyone who has read even one book about the eastern front in WW II (I have read many) understands why Russia is so sensitive about this area, and why any country who decides to get involved in an “offensive” land war with Russia over what they consider to be their area is crazy….

Look what US did when the Soviet Union tried to militarize Cuba to their advantage.  The US was prepared to go to nuclear war to stop it.  Can you imagine what the US would have done if the former Soviet Union said it was willing to have Nicaragua and other Latin American countries as members of the Warsaw Pact?   We would have gone absolutely ballistic because we consider Latin America to be “our area.”

Now, I do start to feel a little different about Poland because Poland is not a traditional Russian/Soviet “area”.  Furthermore, what the Soviets did to Poland, first with their German-Soviet Non-Aggression pact of 1939,

http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/german-soviet-nonaggression-pact

and then at the end of the war when Soviet troops stood by (I’m not too happy about FDR’s actions either) as Hitler unleashed some of the worst people under his control in Warsaw (Warsaw Uprising of 1944).

http://www.warsawuprising.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

I probably would not be positioning missiles in Poland, but would station NATO troops there as a trip wire.  Maybe the same approach for the Baltics….But, no NATO troops stationed in the Ukraine or Georgia….
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on March 26, 2017, 01:41:06 PM
Yes, I agree that Trump may have taken a misstep regarding the health care legislation (I’m not privy to his inner thinking or big picture plans), as follows:

1.  Part of Trump’s winning coalition came about because of his populist message.  IMHO, he should have cemented this populism by introducing his own health care legislation Yes, some of the things in his plan may have upset some conservative Republicans, but they just showed that they are not going to support him anyways…

2. Maybe Trump should have introduced his health care plan, immigration plan and tax reform plan together: offering Democrats and conservative Republicans something in each plan.  Maybe one group gets a little more in one plan and a little less in another plan…..But, give them something they can talk about back home…..If interested, continue reading below.

3.  Trump did not win the election because he was an establishment Republican.  Many Republicans opposed him before and they still oppose him.  They want him to fail.

4.  Many Republicans and Democrats do not want to solve problems; therefore, they do not want to have legislation pass that is the result of Rs and Ds compromising.   They want nothing to pass and only want money raising issues and campaign slogans - E.G. “Send me money and vote for me because if the Ds take control the country will become the Socialist States of America……  Or, send me money and vote for me because if the Rs are in control they will use DNA to resurrect Hitler….. These Ds and Rs are really saying that they either want it completely their way, or they will ensure that nothing gets done.  Another reason Trump got elected….

5.  The Rs had six years where they controlled the House under Obama, and with no filibuster in the House they could pass any legislation they wanted.  Maybe the legislation would stall in the Senate because of the filibuster, but it is the House’s job to legislate.  I believe they voted more than fifty times to repeal Obamacare, but they never included a replacement.  In addition, the House never passed a Republican immigration bill or a Republican tax reform bill……

6.  Congress needs to be led and that is what Trump was elected to do.  Many people supported Trump because of the failures of Congress and the President to get anything done.  He should introduce his own health care bill, his own immigration bill and his own tax reform bill.  He needs to show that he is leading or he will lose a lot of support, and he will not succeed.

7.  In all of these bills he should include some Democratic ideas to either force the Ds to compromise and vote for it, or to look completely political and vote against it.  And, of course include some Republican conservative ideas.  Any president, including Trump, can consider it a victory if the president gets around 60-70% of what he wants in a bill.  This is something that Obama never learned, or was unwilling to do.
 
8.  It’s easy to say that Obama could not get anything done because the Rs controlled the House and Senate, but the truth is that either Obama did not have the leadership skills, or just did not desire to compromise, to get anything done.  Reagan - who was a Republican had a House and Senate controlled by Ds -, and Clinton – who was Democrat  had a Republican House and Senate for most of his presidency - were both very skilled at keeping their overall agenda moving forward, while allowing for compromise.

9.  Heck!  The Republicans controlled the House while talking impeachment and eventually voted for it, and while doing this Clinton was cutting deals with the House…..  They balanced the budget.  See first quote below.  But, Clinton and Reagan actually enjoyed the political “game,” and by all accounts Obama did not enjoy it.  I can post link after link documenting this, but have just included one link - for now - , which shows Democrats in Congress complaining of Obama’s “aloofness.”  See second quote below.
 
Maybe if you don’t have the skills to be good at a game you don’t enjoy playing it as much…..Furthermore, both Reagan and Clinton had previously been governors where they learned about how to get legislation passed; they learned about compromise; and they basically learned how to play the game. Obama was a college lawyer and community organizer…  Trump has a good background in negotiating, and he needs to start using his skills at the beginning of the process by introducing his own legislation.

Maybe how things worked out regarding this health care legislation is part of a bigger plan that I do not know about…..  I do know that Trump needs to remember that he was not elected because of the support of the Republican establishment, but because of a coalition that he built.  Furthermore, if he lets Congress lead on legislation he will reaffirm the old saying:  “Garbage in, garbage out.”

Quote
First Quote:
The impeachment of Bill Clinton was initiated by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
Fact Check: Who was president the last time the budget was balanced?
- The U.S. government suffered budget deficits every year from 1970 through 1997.
- Democrat Bill Clinton was president in 1998, when the government finally recorded a surplus.
- There also were budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001. 2001 was the last year the Clinton administration proposed the budget.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-check-the-last-president-to-balance-the-budget/

Second Quote:
Some excerpts are below.

House Democrats can’t figure out why Obama won’t talk to them
By Mike Lillis - 08/14/14 06:00 AM EDT

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/215082-house-dems-cant-figure-out-why-obama-wont-talk-to-them

Some are scratching their heads why, after nearly six years in office and a reshuffling of his legislative affairs team, Obama's working relationship with Congress remains prickly.
“It's hard for us to fathom; I mean, is it just lack of full staffing and resources? [Is it] professional commitment? Is it a disdain for the legislative branch? I mean, what is it?” asked Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA) “People like me want to be allies — I mean, I am an ally. So work with us, reach out to us; you know, we're not the enemy.”

Connolly emphasized that he has "no complaints" with the administration's outreach when it comes to logistics and political operations. But as a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, he's long-been frustrated by the White House’s approach to "the bread-and-butter of congressional relations and the policy front." 
“That’s made our jobs harder,” he said.

Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, lamented what he characterized as a history of the White House dropping its plans on congressional Democrats without warning. “Not being consulted ahead of time — that just makes people crazy,” Grijalva said. “Let us know ahead of time. Call us in when you're developing something so we can give you our ground-level reality check about how this is going to work.”

Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) likened D-Va.) likened the relationship between presidents and their Capitol Hill allies to that between quarterbacks and the offensive linemen charged with protecting them. Some quarterbacks, he said, simply manage that alliance better than others.

“Certainly, Bill Clinton saw us as his offensive line, and so he attended to the nurturing of his offensive line,” Moran said. “And I don't think this president, this quarterback, invests all that much time and effort into the care and feeding of his offensive line.
“You can still win,” Moran added. “It just makes it a little more difficult.”

It's one of Washington's worst-kept secrets that many Democrats have, for years, been frustrated by what they consider a lackluster communications operation between Obama and his allies on Capitol Hill….

Pelosi has long defended the White House's communications efforts. Still, even the ever-loyal Democratic leader recently urged the administration to bolster its congressional outreach in the face of widespread criticism from allies.

“While I disagree with the characterization [that Obama is too aloof], if that is the impression people have, then communication has to be stepped up,” she said during a July 22 appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe” program.
                 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 26, 2017, 03:18:02 PM
Unfortunately, for the people of the Ukraine/Crimea and Georgia the US should yell and scream, possibly consider economic sanctions,

Eastreef, eastreef....most of your posts are spot on but not this time.

In the case of Ukraine: the eastern part of the country is ethnically Russian, they do not want to be part of Ukraine. They want to reunite with Russia but Putin said no (hardly the imperialist expansionist Washington portrays him as).
These Russian populations, centred around Luhansk and Donetsk, have formed self-defence militias to protect themselves from Ukrainian forces and to fight for self determination, their own republic.
They are not dictated to by Moscow, neither has Russia invaded Ukraine (another media lie). Moscow has some influence over them but not much.
So the whole propaganda narrative that Russia invaded Ukraine and eastern Ukraine wants freedom from Russian occupation is ...ridiculous.

In the case of Crimea: Crimea has been part of Russia for centuries, the people are Russian. It was put into to Ukraine for administrative reasons during the soviet era, then was cut adrift by the overnight dissolution of the USSR.
The people held a referendum in which they decided to return to Russia, precisely because they were being menaced by western backed forces in Ukraine. The Crimean parliament requested Russia to take them back.
A vast majority of the population is Russian, so it is hardly surprising that they voted this way. Once again: there was no "invasion" of crimea: the transition occurred purely by democratic means.

Georgia: was another conflict caused by Hilary's imperialistic expansionism. The US manufactured a colour revolution "the rose revolution" to bring in a puppet government. It was the same pattern as to how they operated in Ukraine: then their new government started attacking ethnic Russians to force Moscow into action, then Washington could claim that Russia is the evil invader. If you don't believe me, look at WikiLeaks cables from that time.
This is simply the sort of games that the Washington neocons/ globalists have been playing for decades: their goal has always been to wear down Russia by starting fires along its borders. By destabilizing countries and starting conflicts to exhaust the Russian military. Supporting Islamic terrorism if need be. Afghanistan was a prime example.


Quote from: Maximmm
Not really - his new budget is all military and little else.  If nothing else, he is now in cahoots with the military complex.  I wonder if what happened to him is what happened to Obama? 
Obama started off with a similar 'change' platform (which even got him a nobel peace prize) and then did a U-turn. 

Either they were both always in cahoots with the elites and were lying their arses off, or they got blackmailed/pressured by the elites into submission after winning the elections.


Its pretty obvious that Trump was never the chosen one- the media was against him from day one. Not only the liberals, but most of his own party- the republicans.

Simply being rich does not make one part of the "establishment". Trumps business empire is built on hotels, entertainment. Its totally unrelated to the usual pursuits of the elites- the agribusiness, the defense industry, the banks.

The "establishment" is a mixture of special interest groups bound together by secret societies and a hidden agenda. Not simply the oldies who've been there a long time.

Plus, Trumps initial appointments were not neocons. General Flynn was in favour of mending relations with Russia, for example, but he got hounded out by the neocons. The worst thing trump did was to give in to their pressure. It seems he really has since given up though and let the neocons have the floor. Flynn has been replaced by a Russophobe, Trump has allowed a vast military budget to placate his enemies.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 27, 2017, 10:21:34 AM


I have a question for you Russia haters- Are you willing to go to war with Russia over some border dispute with Georgia? Do you actually think Putin is going to blitz into Poland?

Would you go fight and die Tatarian independence? Would you send your children to do so?

Then why do you back this anti-Russia nonsense?

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia? No. Quit being a Trumpian troll, Steelrails.

And no, Obama didn't hold a gun to Putin's head and force him to invade the Ukraine. As I've said many times, Russia blaming the US for Russian aggression is really stupid and just exposes you as either an idiot or a Russian troll.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 27, 2017, 10:43:39 AM

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

Obama didn't force him. As I've been saying, Obama was the one relatively sane voice in his administration when it came to Russia. Hillary was the one clamoring for a more aggressive posture, something Obama found questionable. However, Ukraine is a divided country and if people of your ethnic group are in a civil war on your border, at the very least you are going to get somewhat involved. It is also within Russia's traditional sphere of influence, just as the Monroe Doctrine gives us primacy in the Western Hemisphere.

Why are we allowed to have a Monroe Doctrine but Russia can't even intervene on behalf of its own people on its own border? Is there any sense of fairness in that?

Quote
just exposes you as either an idiot or a Russian troll.

If anyone is exposed its the people who are engaged in blind Trump rage. All they see is Trump and they can't see the larger picture. Trump could cure cancer and they'd reflexively be against it because it came from Trump.

If this was Bernie Sanders saying the same things about needing a different Russia policy, would you dismiss it as trolling? There are voices on the progressive left who have been saying the same thing, including writers for The Nation, Rolling Stone, Dennis Kucinich, and Glenn Greenwald.

What amazes me is that these are the people who claim to be smart and reasoned and against the Iraq War and against spying, but they're gobbling up what the CIA (Iraq War) and NSA (lied about domestic spying) are feeding them in a run-up to confrontation with Russia, all because they hate Trump.

Also, is Trump still Hitler/Mussolini? Or have we finally moved on to the "he's a dolt phase"? Will you admit to being wrong about him being a fascist?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 27, 2017, 10:47:33 AM
Putin's head and force him to invade the Ukraine.

When was this invasion exactly?

Quote
Russian aggression

Once again, do fill us all in on the details of this supposed aggression.


You live in a fantasy world.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 27, 2017, 01:21:35 PM

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

And I take it you useful idiots don't know how WW2 started.

(http://tomatobubble.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/chamberlai3n.gif)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 27, 2017, 01:57:28 PM

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

And I take it you useful idiots don't know how WW2 started.

(http://tomatobubble.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/chamberlai3n.gif)

Your posts are so imbecillic, they're funny :laugh:

Either you are as dumb as you appear, or you are simply afraid of reality.

/insert tin foil hat meme

When Aurata runs out of Russians-are-not-the-bad-guys talking points, he goes on personal attacks.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 27, 2017, 02:43:38 PM

Did the US go to war with Russia over Georgia?

We would next time if NATO was expanded to include them, as HRC has suggested. Do you want to die over South Ossetia?

Are you unaware of your history? Do you know how WWI started? Minor nations dragging in other ones thanks to treaty obligations. Why give Estonia the power to drag us into a nuclear war?

And I take it you useful idiots don't know how WW2 started.

(http://tomatobubble.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/chamberlai3n.gif)

Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 27, 2017, 02:57:06 PM
Quote
Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Don't expect answers to basic questions from mare haggler. He's a bot that simply repeats untenable propaganda statements.

The only reason I engage him at all is because he's so inept, he wins thousands over to my side.

If he's being paid by the CIA they should ask for their money back. :laugh:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 27, 2017, 05:04:35 PM
Quote
Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Don't expect answers to basic questions from mare haggler. He's a bot that simply repeats untenable propaganda statements.

The only reason I engage him at all is because he's so inept, he wins thousands over to my side.

If he's being paid by the CIA they should ask for their money back. :laugh:

Compared to you who spouts Russian propaganda for free out of love for the motherland.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 27, 2017, 05:09:47 PM
I'm sure he's swimming in kopecks in St. Petersburg. There's no way any Westerner is dumb enough to support Putin so embarrassingly. Either that or he's just insane and addicted to RT and Vatnik News.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 27, 2017, 05:17:31 PM
Quote
Then you think Putin is Hitler and he's about to start blitzkrieging across Europe?

Don't expect answers to basic questions from mare haggler. He's a bot that simply repeats untenable propaganda statements.

The only reason I engage him at all is because he's so inept, he wins thousands over to my side.

If he's being paid by the CIA they should ask for their money back. :laugh:

Russian propaganda 101: if you are doing something embarrassing and bad and reprehensible, accuse the other side of doing that thing.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 27, 2017, 10:58:03 PM
Putin's head and force him to invade the Ukraine.

When was this invasion exactly?



Quote
Russian aggression

What aggression?


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 28, 2017, 11:05:43 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/17/vladimir-putin-admits-russian-military-presence-ukraine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-people-putin-is-suspected-of-assassinating-2016-3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

(https://media.giphy.com/media/poZnXsKLvTVGo/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2017, 11:19:55 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/17/vladimir-putin-admits-russian-military-presence-ukraine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-people-putin-is-suspected-of-assassinating-2016-3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

(https://media.giphy.com/media/poZnXsKLvTVGo/giphy.gif)

Yes. And what does the list of U.S. military intervention and black ops look like? Why is the U.S. allowed to do such things and not Russia?

Invasion of Iraq? Blowing up pharmaceutical factories? Starving Middle Eastern children? Toppling regimes? Supporting brutal regimes?

And since you lean left, don't you accept that the U.S. police are waging a brutal campaign of oppression against its minority population? How about its international drug war?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 28, 2017, 11:23:23 AM
But it's ok when Russia does far worse things. When's the last time the US government assassinated a journalist, Steelrails? I've asked you this before and you'll just change the subject again and go off on a tangent just like Trump.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 28, 2017, 12:08:23 PM
You've given a load of irrelevant links to stuff not related to the question.

You claimed that Russia invaded the Ukraine.

What invasion?

Just give me dates, number of troops, tanks, number of people killed, etc. A picture of Russian tanks all over kiev will do.


Flight 370 was not shot down by Russia. More fake news.

As for "aggression". The US has bombed and destroyed seven countries in the past decade, creating a tidal wave of refugees. What do you call it, diplomacy?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on March 28, 2017, 12:12:18 PM

Yes. And what does the list of U.S. military intervention and black ops look like?

Starting with 19th century -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#19th_century_interventions
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2017, 12:16:55 PM
But it's ok when Russia does far worse things. When's the last time the US government assassinated a journalist, Steelrails? I've asked you this before and you'll just change the subject again and go off on a tangent just like Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrike
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 28, 2017, 02:57:18 PM
This is what I meant to post, not MH 370

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

Have fun with your whataboutism as you defend a bunch of warmongering dictators, Steelrails and Trollrata. Nobody believes your crap other than the other trolls.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 28, 2017, 03:04:41 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/mar/24/power-rangers-russia-age-restriction-lgbt-character

The Russian distributor of Power Rangers has given the film an 18+ rating after criticism from several legislators who complained about the film’s inclusion of a LGBT character.

WDSSPR, the Russian distributor of Power Rangers, informed cinemas on Friday that the film would have the highest possible age restrictions after the hardline legislator Vitaly Milonov suggested it should be banned.


(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a9/47/90/a94790095e5f2d569d0b617e01299806.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 28, 2017, 04:26:35 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/17/vladimir-putin-admits-russian-military-presence-ukraine

Sending a couple of military advisors does not amount to 'an invasion'.

Quote
http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-people-putin-is-suspected-of-assassinating-2016-3

Unfounded sensationalist allegations by anti-russian mainstream media.

Quote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

In case you hadn't noticed, Chechnya is in Russia. Security operations within your country (against islamic terrorists armed and instigated by Washington) do not count as 'foreign aggression'.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 28, 2017, 07:22:32 PM
MOSCOW -- Russia is seeking to deepen ties with the government of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, seemingly unconcerned by raised eyebrows in the international community.

Russia maintains diplomatic ties with North Korea, and continues to support it, even as the country has isolated itself from most of the international community by repeatedly conducting nuclear weapons and ballistic missile tests. In fact, Russia is now seen by many experts as closer to the North than Pyongyang's traditional ally, China.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Moscow-plays-the-North-Korea-card
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on March 28, 2017, 07:22:33 PM
This is what I meant to post, not MH 370

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

Have fun with your whataboutism as you defend a bunch of warmongering dictators, Steelrails and Trollrata. Nobody believes your crap other than the other trolls.

The point we're trying to make is not that Putin is some great guy, its that you're incredibly naive and being willfully ignorant of the United States' policy and the policies of the NeoCon-NeoLib establishment you defend.

This is the same group as Clinton, Bush, Cheney, George 'Slam Dunk' Tenet, James 'What NSA Wiretapping?' Clapper, Henry 'War Criminal in Absentia' Kissinger, and others.

Apparently they are saints and Putin is literally Hitler.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 28, 2017, 07:25:33 PM
complained about the film’s inclusion of a LGBT character

Stop forcing your lifestyle on others..
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 28, 2017, 08:07:03 PM
Apparently they are saints and Putin is literally Hitler.

Why not compare Obama to Putin?

I like Obama a lot better. You?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 28, 2017, 08:54:49 PM
complained about the film’s inclusion of a LGBT character

Stop forcing your lifestyle on others..

Awww, does poor widdle special Comrade Cosmonaut need a safe space from the scary gay power ranger?

(https://i.imgur.com/OsutTMH.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 28, 2017, 11:44:04 PM
Quote from: Mayrhagger
LGBT character

Sorry but the world doesn't want you shoving your confused western weirdo identity in their faces.

Quote from: LifeImprovement
MOSCOW -- Russia is seeking to deepen ties with the government of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

That is what happens when you are determined to create enemies out of nothing and keep forcing them into a corner.

You forced Russia and china together as well.

Quote from: Eastreef
for the people of the Ukraine/Crimea and Georgia the US should yell and scream


Crimea was an autonomous republic until 1995 when it was invaded and annexed by the Ukraine. Why didn't your liberal western media shout and scream back then?

 

Quote
So Who Annexed the Crimean Peninsula Then?

Due to the international media’s continued claims about the «annexation of Crimea», it’s been difficult for the citizens of the US and Europe to make sense of the details of the peninsula’s recent history. Exactly three years ago, on March 16, 2014, the Crimeans were offered a choice: to rejoin Russia or to return to the constitution of 1992 that proclaimed Crimea a legal, democratic, secular state whose relationship with Ukraine was based on bilateral agreements. That constitution was unilaterally abolished by Kiev on March 17, 1995, and here’s what’s surprising: no one at that time in the West demanded that the Ukrainian government stop violating the provisions of international law and the rights of the inhabitants of the Crimean peninsula. And then in 1995, special ops forces from the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Armed Forces of Ukraine (ZSU) landed in Crimea and Sevastopol in order to establish «Ukrainian law and order», seizing the building housing the Supreme Council of the republic, where the administration of the acting president of Crimea, Yuriy Meshkov, was also headquartered
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/03/28/so-who-annexed-crimea-peninsular-then.html (http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/03/28/so-who-annexed-crimea-peninsular-then.html)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 29, 2017, 09:16:57 AM
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/world/europe/in-protests-kremlin-fears-a-young-generation-stirring.html

Quote
MOSCOW — The weekend anticorruption protests that roiled Moscow and nearly 100 Russian towns clearly rattled the Kremlin, unprepared for their size and seeming spontaneity. But perhaps the biggest surprise, even to protest leaders themselves, was the youthfulness of the crowds.

A previously apathetic generation of people in their teens and 20s, most of them knowing nothing but 17 years of rule by Vladimir V. Putin, was the most striking face of the demonstrations, the biggest in years.

It is far from clear whether their enthusiasm for challenging the authorities, which has suddenly provided adrenaline to Russia’s beaten-down opposition, will be short-lived or points to a new era. Nor is it clear whether the object of the anger — blatant and unabashed corruption — will infect the popularity of Mr. Putin.

But the harshness of the response to the protests on Sunday — hundreds of people were arrested, in many cases simply for showing up — suggested that Mr. Putin’s hierarchy was taking no chances.

That the Kremlin has been vexed by Mr. Navalny is clear from the authorities’ response to what, in most countries, would be inconsequential protests that merely disrupted traffic. The police arrested protesters in some cases for nothing more than carrying a rubber duck, a symbol of extravagant money reportedly spent on a duck pond at a government residence.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zXf-u6V-u9E/TnO4hXYLIvI/AAAAAAAAQDs/PXXnlzl3aYM/s1600/Yakov+Smirnoff+-+What+A+Country.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 29, 2017, 01:16:23 PM
unprepared for their size and seeming spontaneity. But perhaps the biggest surprise, even to protest leaders themselves, was the youthfulness of the crowds.

The 'surprising number and youthfulness' is due to the fact that the demonstrators were paid by western NGO's.

 In many cases the protesters were underrage and deliberately misinformed by their sponsors into commiting illegalities and protesting in illegal areas so that they would then be arrested and washington could then cry foul about 'police brutalityc.

Washington is up to its usual tricks, fomenting and sponsoring unrest in countries that do not follow their dictates.


Quote
Nor is it clear whether the object of the anger — blatant and unabashed corruption — will infect the popularity of Mr. Putin.

More deliberate misleading reporting by the biased NY times.

The protests were against Medvedev, not Putin  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 29, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Crimea was an autonomous republic until 1995 when it was invaded and annexed by the Ukraine[/b]. Why didn't your liberal western media shout and scream back then?

     While not entirely untrue, this is pretty misleading. When the USSR balkanized in 1991, Crimea became the Autonomous Republic of Crimea in the Ukraine: on May 5th the ARC drew up a constitution and proclaimed self governance. The next day that same council then proclaimed to be a part of the Ukraine.
      Since the collapse of the Soviet Empire Crimea has been independent for a total of only a single day. And the "annexation" was bilateral.

     Of course, the Ukraine has done a lot to curtail the ARC's level of autonomy, with the result that Crimeans would much rather belong to Russia than to the Ukraine.
     I feel like the peninsula is going to be a lot like what Cyprus is to Turkey and Greece: a pain in the ass until eventually both sides have had enough and wash their hands of it entirely, leaving the UN to create buffer zones between every neighbourhood to prevent yet another Sarajevo.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 29, 2017, 07:38:06 PM
unprepared for their size and seeming spontaneity. But perhaps the biggest surprise, even to protest leaders themselves, was the youthfulness of the crowds.

The 'surprising number and youthfulness' is due to the fact that the demonstrators were paid by western NGO's.

 In many cases the protesters were underrage and deliberately misinformed by their sponsors into commiting illegalities and protesting in illegal areas so that they would then be arrested and washington could then cry foul about 'police brutalityc.

Washington is up to its usual tricks, fomenting and sponsoring unrest in countries that do not follow their dictates.


Quote
Nor is it clear whether the object of the anger — blatant and unabashed corruption — will infect the popularity of Mr. Putin.

More deliberate misleading reporting by the biased NY times.

The protests were against Medvedev, not Putin  :rolleyes:




Russia has 600,000 “orphans,” although 70 to 90 percent of them have birth parents who are alive. This is Russia’s third great wave of orphans, the first two coming on the heels of the two world wars.

A number of factors are at work, but central to all of them is the lack of assistance to families under stress. Russia traditionally has one approach when dealing with disabled children and children of parents who cannot cope: The state takes custody.

A majority of orphans end up with relatives, but the orphanages also are full. Children’s advocates stress two points: The country must do much more to try to keep children with their families, and when that fails, it should concentrate on promoting adoption and foster care for toddlers and older children.

“But the system doesn’t want to be transformed,” said Boris Altshuler, a longtime advocate for dissidents and children. “It doesn’t want to let children out. The people who run it are protecting a system that destroys Russian families.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russias-orphans-government-takes-custody-of-children-when-parents-cant-cope/2013/05/02/4d17ff4a-a757-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html

(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder16/63492016.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 29, 2017, 11:14:35 PM
Crimea was an autonomous republic until 1995 when it was invaded and annexed by the Ukraine[/b]. Why didn't your liberal western media shout and scream back then?

     While not entirely untrue, this is pretty misleading. When the USSR balkanized in 1991, Crimea became the Autonomous Republic of Crimea in the Ukraine


Looking at the chronology of events, its clear that Crimea never wanted or consented to be part of Ukraine or separate from Russia.


Quote
Chronology for Crimean Russians in Ukraine

Minorities at Risk Project, Chronology for Crimean Russians in Ukraine, 2004, available at: http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html [accessed 29 March 2017]

Apr 29, 1954 Under Khrushchev, the Soviet Union transfers the Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. This move is done in marking the 300th anniversary of the Pereiaslav Agreement which, in large part, marked the beginning of Ukrainian subjugation to the Muscovite Empire. The official party line has declared this the beginning of the long Russo-Ukrainian friendship.

Jan 20, 1991 A referendum is held in the Crimea on restoring autonomy to the region. Over 80% of the electorate participates, of which 93.26% supported the "restoration of the Crimean ASSR as a subject of the USSR and as a party to the Union Treaty."

Jan 1992 The Russian Foreign Ministry and parliament condemn the transfer of Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954.

May 5, 1992 Crimea's parliament declares total independence subject to approval in a referendum to be held in August 1992.

May 13, 1992 The Ukrainian parliament declares the Crimean parliament's independence declaration unconstitutional and gives them until May 20 to rescind it. They also give President Kravchuk the power to use all necessary means to halt Crimean independence.

May 21, 1992 The Russian parliament passes a resolution declaring the 1954 transfer of Crimea illegal and calling for negotiations on the future of Crimea. This move is supported by some Russian nationalists and Communists in Crimea.

Jan 10, 1993 Over 2,000 protesters hold an unauthorized demonstration in Sevastopol calling for separation from Ukraine

Jan 18 - 20, 1993 Anti-Ukrainian demonstrations again take place in Sevastopol and Simferopol. This time they are organized by the All Crimean Movement of Electors for a Crimean Republic, the Republican Movement of Crimea, Yedinstvo, and the Union of Communists. Demands include the transfer of Crimea back to Russian jurisdiction and early elections be held for all government bodies.

Jul 16, 1993 The anti-Ukrainian Popular Assembly declares that only Russian laws should be valid in the city of Sevastopol, new elections to the city council should be held, Sevastopol deputies in Kiev should be dismissed and new elections for deputies to be sent to Russia should be held, the Ukrainian naval headquarters should be removed forcibly from Sevastopol, and Russia should cut off oil deliveries to Ukraine. The declarations are accompanied by anti-Ukrainian / pro-Russian demonstrations. Meshkov makes statement that once Sevastopol is reunited with Russia, the rest of Crimea would soon follow. Non-Russians throughout Crimea and in Kiev denounce the statement. Most of these sentiments are not held by Russians in the rest of Ukraine. Many Crimean Russians yearn for a return to the Soviet Union and re-establishment of Soviet authority in Ukraine.

Aug 23, 1994 The Sevastopol city council decided to declare Sevastopol a Russian city, making the city subject only to Russian legislation. The resolution was backed by 36 of the 42 members and was immediately denounced as illegal by Ukrainian authorities.

Mar 1995 The Ukrainian parliament rescinded Crimea's constitution and abolished the post of Crimean President. 

Feb 23, 1997 Crimean communists attending a meeting in Simferopol have called on authorities to cut off relations with NATO. The Congress of the Russian People called on Russian and Ukrainian leaders to immediately sign a defensive union recognizing Sevastopol as the main base of the Black Sea Fleet.

Mar 18, 1997 Riot police in Crimea prevented about 1000 protestors from storming the parliament building in Simferopol during a demonstration calling for the return of the peninsula to Russia. Pro-Russian communist groups organized the demonstration which was attended by about 5000 people.

http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html (http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html)



Funny how the western media constantly portrays Crimea as poor people brutally annexed by Russia against their will.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Even Wikipedia leaves out vast portions of history in its rush to declare Crimea a part of Ukraine.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on March 30, 2017, 12:11:08 AM
Hi Liberals!

Trump is still president, and the alt right is still in charge of the White House!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 30, 2017, 12:41:25 AM
Russia has 600,000 “orphans,” although 70 to 90 percent of them have birth parents who are alive. This is Russia’s third great wave of orphans, the first two coming on the heels of the two world wars.

https//www.washingtonpost.com/


So your point is.... we should hate russian people because they have orphans?



Their media hate propaganda campaign against russia (which you are recycling) is essentially no different in spirit and intention, to what they print in north korea.



Congratulations

(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4ef08c546bb3f75138000028-506-253/check-out-these-twisted-north-korean-propaganda-posters.jpg)

(http://blog.theacademictraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tank.jpg)


When it comes to creating fear and hatred of a foreign nation and leadership, Washington is now at the same level as Pyongyang.


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 30, 2017, 03:54:38 AM
Hi Liberals!

Trump is still president, and the alt right is still in charge of the White House!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/17/03/28/trump-scraps-epa-regulations-limiting-air-pollution-from-fossil-fuels/

This makes you happy?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 30, 2017, 04:06:50 AM
There are, indeed, very few people who believe air pollution — specifically “fine particulate” pollution, or PM2.5 — doesn’t cause death. Those who do, however, are getting louder and gaining influence in conservative political circles and inside President Donald Trump’s administration. These air-pollution deniers have just one hope: the repeal of clean-air regulations that have long protected Americans’ health.

At last month’s Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), during a little-noticed panel on climate change and environmental regulation, air pollution denial was rampant and went unchallenged. Steve Milloy, formerly a paid flack for the tobacco and fossil fuel industries and member of Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency transition team, argued that excessive air pollution is not linked to premature death. “My particular interest is air pollution,” Milloy said, alleging that EPA’s scientists are inherently biased. “These people validate and rubber-stamp the EPA’s conclusion that air pollution kills people.” Milloy also said, baselessly, that EPA scientists are “paying for the science it wants,” and that Trump must change the research process at the agency.

It is extensively proven, and widely accepted, that air pollution can harm humans, which is why the government regulates it. PM2.5 refers to tiny particles that are 2.5 micrometers or less in diameter — small enough to penetrate deep into the circulatory system and potentially infiltrate the central nervous system. The particles range in composition, originating anywhere from cement dust to tobacco smoke to pollen.

http://grist.org/article/now-there-are-air-pollution-deniers-too/
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: some waygug-in on March 30, 2017, 06:36:43 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2016/03/09/epa-remains-a-paragon-of-government-waste-fraud-and-abuse/#4815957c34c5

 :rolleyes:

http://eaglerising.com/32980/major-corruption-questions-as-the-epa-is-caught-hiding-billions-of-dollars-in-slush-fund-like-accounts/

 :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 30, 2017, 07:50:09 AM
Looking at the chronology of events, its clear that Crimea never wanted or consented to be part of Ukraine or separate from Russia.
Quote
Chronology for Crimean Russians in Ukraine
Minorities at Risk Project, Chronology for Crimean Russians in Ukraine, 2004, available at: http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html [accessed 29 March 2017]
Apr 29, 1954 Under Khrushchev, the Soviet Union transfers the Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. This move is done in marking the 300th anniversary of the Pereiaslav Agreement which, in large part, marked the beginning of Ukrainian subjugation to the Muscovite Empire. The official party line has declared this the beginning of the long Russo-Ukrainian friendship.
Jan 20, 1991 A referendum is held in the Crimea on restoring autonomy to the region. Over 80% of the electorate participates, of which 93.26% supported the "restoration of the Crimean ASSR as a subject of the USSR and as a party to the Union Treaty."
Jan 1992 The Russian Foreign Ministry and parliament condemn the transfer of Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954.
May 5, 1992 Crimea's parliament declares total independence subject to approval in a referendum to be held in August 1992.
May 13, 1992 The Ukrainian parliament declares the Crimean parliament's independence declaration unconstitutional and gives them until May 20 to rescind it. They also give President Kravchuk the power to use all necessary means to halt Crimean independence.
May 21, 1992 The Russian parliament passes a resolution declaring the 1954 transfer of Crimea illegal and calling for negotiations on the future of Crimea. This move is supported by some Russian nationalists and Communists in Crimea.
Jan 10, 1993 Over 2,000 protesters hold an unauthorized demonstration in Sevastopol calling for separation from Ukraine
Jan 18 - 20, 1993 Anti-Ukrainian demonstrations again take place in Sevastopol and Simferopol. This time they are organized by the All Crimean Movement of Electors for a Crimean Republic, the Republican Movement of Crimea, Yedinstvo, and the Union of Communists. Demands include the transfer of Crimea back to Russian jurisdiction and early elections be held for all government bodies.
Jul 16, 1993 The anti-Ukrainian Popular Assembly declares that only Russian laws should be valid in the city of Sevastopol, new elections to the city council should be held, Sevastopol deputies in Kiev should be dismissed and new elections for deputies to be sent to Russia should be held, the Ukrainian naval headquarters should be removed forcibly from Sevastopol, and Russia should cut off oil deliveries to Ukraine. The declarations are accompanied by anti-Ukrainian / pro-Russian demonstrations. Meshkov makes statement that once Sevastopol is reunited with Russia, the rest of Crimea would soon follow. Non-Russians throughout Crimea and in Kiev denounce the statement. Most of these sentiments are not held by Russians in the rest of Ukraine. Many Crimean Russians yearn for a return to the Soviet Union and re-establishment of Soviet authority in Ukraine.
Aug 23, 1994 The Sevastopol city council decided to declare Sevastopol a Russian city, making the city subject only to Russian legislation. The resolution was backed by 36 of the 42 members and was immediately denounced as illegal by Ukrainian authorities.
Mar 1995 The Ukrainian parliament rescinded Crimea's constitution and abolished the post of Crimean President. 
Feb 23, 1997 Crimean communists attending a meeting in Simferopol have called on authorities to cut off relations with NATO. The Congress of the Russian People called on Russian and Ukrainian leaders to immediately sign a defensive union recognizing Sevastopol as the main base of the Black Sea Fleet.
Mar 18, 1997 Riot police in Crimea prevented about 1000 protestors from storming the parliament building in Simferopol during a demonstration calling for the return of the peninsula to Russia. Pro-Russian communist groups organized the demonstration which was attended by about 5000 people.
http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html (http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html)

Funny how the western media constantly portrays Crimea as poor people brutally annexed by Russia against their will.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Even Wikipedia leaves out vast portions of history in its rush to declare Crimea a part of Ukraine.
I'm not going to argue any of those points because A) I'm no expert on the topic, B) They're all true, as far as I can tell.

   However, just as Wiki allegedly leaves out some facts, your list leaves out a number of important facts as well. The majority of Crimeans may want to rejoin Russia, but it isn't an overwhelming majority: there are many who are pushing to remain part of the Ukraine, and even more who advocate (unrealistically in my opinion) to push for complete independence.

   My earlier point wasn't that Crimea wants to remain Ukrainian but that wherever it ends up, there will be a lot of unhappy people. It's probably going to be an issue for the next couple generations, just like it was (and still is) in Cyprus.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 30, 2017, 08:34:09 AM
Russia has 600,000 “orphans,” although 70 to 90 percent of them have birth parents who are alive. This is Russia’s third great wave of orphans, the first two coming on the heels of the two world wars.

https//www.washingtonpost.com/


So your point is.... we should hate russian people because they have orphans?



Their media hate propaganda campaign against russia (which you are recycling) is essentially no different in spirit and intention, to what they print in north korea.



Congratulations

(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4ef08c546bb3f75138000028-506-253/check-out-these-twisted-north-korean-propaganda-posters.jpg)

(http://blog.theacademictraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tank.jpg)


When it comes to creating fear and hatred of a foreign nation and leadership, Washington is now at the same level as Pyongyang.

But it's ok if Russians do it.

This is all you or any vatnik does:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/img16/office-products/showcase/968031_op_epson_billboard_900x360.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 30, 2017, 11:44:43 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So you're a air pollution denier? You want to repeal clean-air regulations? You're glad Trump did that?

"It is extensively proven, and widely accepted, that air pollution can harm humans, which is why the government regulates it."
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 30, 2017, 12:15:33 PM
The majority of Crimeans may want to rejoin Russia, but it isn't an overwhelming majority

97.7% isn't an overwhelming majority to you?

That's the percentage that voted to rejoin Russia.

Quote
wherever it ends up, there will be a lot of unhappy people.

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/73619000/jpg/_73619341_dd4c3a32-4e6a-4732-ad2a-82838a465458.jpg)

(http://images1.ynet.co.il/PicServer3/2014/03/16/5217886/52178850100098490322no.jpg)

I don't think so, kyndo.

Wean yourself off CNN.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on March 30, 2017, 12:57:34 PM
Aurata have you ever been to the Crimea?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 30, 2017, 01:16:31 PM
A senior Obama administration official said there was "concrete evidence" that some ballots in the Crimea referendum arrived in some Crimean cities pre-marked.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 30, 2017, 01:24:14 PM
A senior Obama administration official said there was "concrete evidence" that some ballots in the Crimea referendum arrived in some Crimean cities pre-marked.

And the vast majority of people who 'legally' voted were ethnic Russian who only make up around 58% of the Crimean population.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 30, 2017, 01:55:04 PM
A senior Obama administration official said there was "concrete evidence" that some ballots in the Crimea referendum arrived in some Crimean cities pre-marked.

And the vast majority of people who 'legally' voted were ethnic Russian who only make up around 58% of the Crimean population.

Crimea river.

Support for Russia and the ussr was always extremely high because most of the population is related to the russian military or black sea fleet somehow, including ethnic ukrainians. Also kiev pays its sailors less and has lower standards of general administration. Asking crimea and eastern ukraine to view themselves as 'ukrainian' is a bit like asking London to be part of the Irish republic.

The only people 'unhappy' about the democratic will of the people, are, as ever, the neocons in Washington who wanted to sieze the Black sea port for themselves.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on March 30, 2017, 02:54:14 PM
The majority of Crimeans may want to rejoin Russia, but it isn't an overwhelming majority
97.7% isn't an overwhelming majority to you?
That's the percentage that voted to rejoin Russia.
Quote
wherever it ends up, there will be a lot of unhappy people.
;D(http://media02.statarea.com/images/flags/country/150.gif) ;D
I don't think so, kyndo.
Wean yourself off CNN.
    First of all, I don't read much CNN, so it won't take much weaning. I don't really enjoy the website format.

    Secondly, 97.5% voted (in a technically unconstitutional referendum where international observers such as the UN and the OSCE were denied entry by troops armed with Russian equipment) to join the Russian Federation, true.
    I also agree that that percentage is a pretty overwhelming majority -- and that it would remain an huge majority even if the many allegations of vote tampering and fraud were all true (polls both before and after the referendum agree that the majority of Crimians would prefer to leave the Ukraine).
   But that's the problem: they were offered only 2 choices: stay in the Ukraine under the 1992 constitution, or join Russia. If there had been the option of autonomy, or even of a return to the 1991 constitution, the referendum would not have been so clear-cut. There are several minorities in Crimea that dislike Russia just as much as they dislike the Ukraine.

    That's what I was talking bout with my parallels to Cyprus etc: many people in that peninsula would really rather not be part of either country, and will be unhappy regardless of where they end up.

Which brings to mind: "Whether the beat beats the wolf or the wolf beats the bear, the rabbit always loses."

Crimea river.
:laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 30, 2017, 02:57:23 PM
Quote
That the Kremlin has been vexed by Mr. Navalny is clear from the authorities’ response to what, in most countries, would be inconsequential protests that merely disrupted traffic. The police arrested protesters in some cases for nothing more than carrying a rubber duck, a symbol of extravagant money reportedly spent on a duck pond at a government residence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh85R-S-dh8
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on March 30, 2017, 03:13:35 PM
A senior Obama administration official said there was "concrete evidence" that some ballots in the Crimea referendum arrived in some Crimean cities pre-marked.

And the vast majority of people who 'legally' voted were ethnic Russian who only make up around 58% of the Crimean population.

Crimea river.

(http://i.lvme.me/1nd0wyp.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 30, 2017, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: "Dave Stepz"[/quote
Among the f***ing stupid things the president of the USA is doing, this one is among the most ridiculous.  There is proof about global warming and he is listening to his business buddies who wnat to push fossil fuels. 

Why are you worried about global warming but not nuclear war?


Why is it that Trump, who wants to do the only sane thing and improve relations between thermonuclear powers, is portrayed as an idiot?

but the neo-cons and neoliberals who are risking ending life on earth with their relentless stalking of Russia are portrayed as the salt of the earth?

All so they can keep extorting massive amounts of money out of the government.

Are you ready to die for the military-industrial complex savant?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 30, 2017, 08:51:47 PM
Why are you worried about global warming but not nuclear war?

Nuclear war won't happened. Nukes are a deterrent that's all. No one's going to use a nuke. It'd be foolish to. And no war with Russia will happen. Maybe they'll get sanctions for being a-holes. Boo hoo.

Sanctions = less money in order to pressure a country to do the right thing.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on March 30, 2017, 08:57:43 PM
https://twitter.com/grantsamms/status/846784766984802306/photo/1
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on March 30, 2017, 09:48:01 PM

Why is it that Trump, who wants to do the only sane thing and improve relations between thermonuclear powers, is portrayed as an idiot?

but the neo-cons and neoliberals who are risking ending life on earth with their relentless stalking of Russia are portrayed as the salt of the earth?

Why don't you remind us about how you now think Trump is a neocon idiot because he's not sucking up enough to Putin?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on March 30, 2017, 11:01:58 PM
Nuclear war won't happened. Nukes are a deterrent that's all.

What if there's a false alarm, a miscommunication of incoming missile strike?

During the cold war both sides worked to reduce tensions and keep channels of communication open. American Presidents worked closely with the Soviets to reduce tensions. There was nixon with Salt I (anti-ballistic missile treaty). There was carter with Salt II. Reagan and gorbachev worked to end the cold war. So even when false alarms happened (and they frequently do), people at the controls assumed them to be false because they knew that both sides had an atmosphere of trust.


All that has gone. From the Clinton administration onward the neo-cons have destroyed any trust that had been built. And all of this nonsense has risen out of the military-security complex.
 
-The US pulled out of non-proliferation treaties and changed to a first strike policy.
-They  moved troops into eastern Europe and now up to the borders of Russia (despite pledging not to).
-They are currently putting missile launchers in countries surrounding Russia.
- They are escalating the provocations with new military drills in the Baltics.

They also have their media working 24/7 to demonise and antagonize Russia and its leaders, and brainwash the americans into hating Russia. To create an atmosphere of hysteria and paranoia in the US population, to prepare them for war.

They also refuse any and all co-operation with Russia, including even in close military operations as in Syria. They close down all channels of communication, expelling diplomats and now creating a situation where anybody who so much as talks to a Russian person can be accused of treason. Anyone who suggests that its probably a better idea to improve relations is accused of being a Russian spy. In the past, the US has only acted this way when they have later attacked the country concerned.

Obviously the Russians have to take these threats seriously. And nowadays anyone at the controls is more likely to assume that the alarm is real.

And you don't even think it strange that no western media published Putins warning of WW3?

Quote
Putin's warning: 2016
The world is being pushed on a path to WW3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo)

Quote
Sanctions = less money in order to pressure a country to do the right thing.


Why don't you put sanctions on countries far worse than Russia? Saudi Arabia? Qatar?

Its already been proven to you that crimea returned itself to Russia, it was not seized against its will.

The sanctions are simply pressure by Washington to try and force Russia to surrender and become another vassal puppet state. Russia might simply give in, for the sake of humanity, and agree to whatever Washington wants. They're a more decent and civilized people than the arrogant idiots in Washington. Particularly if the atlanticists get into power there. But I wouldn't be too sure. Russian leaders have vowed to defend their country. And in the meantime, you've simply forced Russia to build stronger alliances with your other enemies.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: some waygug-in on March 31, 2017, 04:44:59 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So you're a air pollution denier? You want to repeal clean-air regulations? You're glad Trump did that?

"It is extensively proven, and widely accepted, that air pollution can harm humans, which is why the government regulates it."




How do you get that from what I posted?   The EPA is not doing it's job according to the
articles I posted, that is all. 
The EPA needs some major reforms or needs to be replaced by someone who will do the job.


Here's an interesting article from someone who used to work for the EPA:

http://www.greens.org/s-r/078/07-48.html
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on April 05, 2017, 10:50:12 AM
Is this guy just going to spend his whole time deflecting the attention from himself onto Obama.  Apart from having no clear foreign policy direction, he seems to 'playing' politics rather than actually 'doing' politics.  How long can he get away with doing that?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/syria-gas-attack-trump-us-foreign-policy

He seems to have just one foreign policy: Defeat ISIS. Except, the world is a lot bigger and complicated than just ISIS.

He's already caved to the Chinese on economic issues. Trump called Obama weak all the time but he's clearly shown already that he has no backbone.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on April 05, 2017, 04:08:03 PM
Is this guy just going to spend his whole time deflecting the attention from himself onto Obama.  Apart from having no clear foreign policy direction, he seems to 'playing' politics rather than actually 'doing' politics.  How long can he get away with doing that?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/syria-gas-attack-trump-us-foreign-policy

Let’s see. Obama, the President of the United States, publically draws a “red” line with Assad/Syria, completely ignores it, and that is considered acceptable foreign policy.  Maybe Obama’s foreign policy is even worthy of a Nobel peace prize……

Trump does not see a U.S. vital security or economic reason for the U.S. to go to war against the Assad regime (and either do I), has his Secretary of State issue a statement calling it a horrific act, does not have US militarily respond, and this means there is no Trump foreign policy.  Okay, now I get it….

ISIS has threatened the U.S., but the Assad regime, both father and son, have not been a military threat to the U.S.  Furthermore, Syria has had a military relationship with the Russians/Soviets since 1971, and even during the Cold War the U.S. tolerated this relationship.  We supply weapons to Israel and Israel handles Syria…..

We do have vital security and economic concerns regarding what North Korea is doing…..

Finally, regarding a current administration saying that a problem today is the result of what a previous administration did or did not do, I sure am glad that the Obama administration never said anything like that about the W. Bush administration…… 


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 05, 2017, 04:32:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPMOSmNmQtc
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 05, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
“Today’s chemical attack in Syria against innocent people, including women and children, is reprehensible and cannot be ignored by the civilized world,” Mr. Trump said in the statement released by the White House. “These heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the past administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

(https://i.imgur.com/z29anQql.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 06, 2017, 01:05:37 AM
Obama, the President of the United States, publically draws a “red” line with Assad/Syria, completely ignores it, and that is considered acceptable foreign policy.

What happened was....Obama wanted to invade Syria to replace Assad with a puppet regime.

So his spin doctors started making a pretext to sell to the American people ahead of time- "If Assad uses chemical weapons we can go in"...

Then whadya know, a short time later there was a chemical attack which they used to blame on Assad.

Only in reality the attack was carried out by western-backed rebels, not Assad as the fake media rushed to report.

At this point Putin said No and removed all Assads stockpile of chemical weapons out of the country, thereby depriving Washington of its excuse to invade.

Washington hates Russia because it is able to stand in the way of their imperialistic wars.

Quote from: MayorHaggar
“Today’s chemical attack in Syria against innocent people, including women and children, is reprehensible and cannot be ignored by the civilized world,” Mr. Trump said in the statement released by the White House. “These heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the past administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

FAKE NEWS

You are really a sucker, aren't ya?

Quote
3 reasons why reports of a Syrian chemical weapons attack on Idlib are fake news

The lack of objectivity is staggering.

An alleged chemical attack in Idlib has been blamed on the Syrian government and on Russia.

The allegations can scarcely be taken serious for the following reasons:

1. Syria Does Not Have Chemical Weapons

Not only did the Syrian government deny using chemical weapons, but they released a statement stating that the Syrian military


“…has not and does not use them, not in the past and not in the future, because it does not have them in the first place”.

In 2013, a report from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons-UN Joint Mission in Syria, concluded that all chemical weapons have been removed from Syria. The mission was overseen by both the United States and Russia with the cooperation of the Syrian government.

However, since then, various terrorist groups operating in Syria have used chemical weapons, including poisonous sarin gas. Chemical weapons have been discovered across territories of Syria that were once held by terrorist forces. Throughout much of  the Syrian conflict, politically motivated sources have accused Syria and her allies of using chemical weapons, in spite of the fact that the opposite is true.

2. Russia Did Not Conduct Any Air Strikes on Idlib

A statement from the Russian military has confirmed that Russian planes have not been present anywhere in the Idlib Governorate. This exposes any allegations relating to Russian involvement in any event in Idlib as entirely fabricated.

3. Fake News from Fake Sources

The initial Reuters report on the event cites the UK based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights as its source. This organisation has been widely discredited as a propaganda outlet that has few actual contacts in Syria, if any.

Because few western mainstream media reporters are on the ground anywhere in Syria, much of the information reported as factual accounts of events, is received from deeply biased and politicised sources pushing an agenda. In other words, pro-terrorist NGOs and other organisations feed mainstream media with disinformation that is passed on as fact.

The absurdity of the latest allegation against Syria and her allies, is yet another example of how fake news has developed during the Syrian war. It is a simple matter of totally unreliable sources being cited as deliverers of fact, without anyone in major outlets questioning their veracity.

This is what has allowed the false narrative about Syria to become pervasive in Europe and the establishment English language press.

https://theduran.com/3-reasons-why-reports-of-a-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-on-idlib-are-fake-news/ (https://theduran.com/3-reasons-why-reports-of-a-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-on-idlib-are-fake-news/)
Quote
Jumping to conclusions; something is not adding up in Idlib chemical weapons attack

BEIRUT, LEBANON (4:47 P.M.) – At least 58 people were killed in a horrific gas attack in the Idlib Governorate this morning. However, even before investigations could be conducted and for evidence to emerge, Federica Mogherini, the Italian politician High Representative of the European Union (EU) for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, condemned the Syrian government stating that the “Assad regime bears responsibility for ‘awful’ Syria ‘chemical’ attack.”

The immediate accusation from a high ranking EU official serves a dangerous precedent where public outcry can be made even before the truth surrounding the tragedy can emerge

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46801.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46801.htm)

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jumping-conclusions-something-not-adding-idlib-chemical-weapons-attack/ (https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jumping-conclusions-something-not-adding-idlib-chemical-weapons-attack/)

Trump has been easily deceived by the CIA. They've put him right where they want him: on a collision course with Russia.
Trump =  clueless pawn of the elites

You never seem to get it, mayr hagar.

Washington has realized that assad is winning, so they have opted for plan B: invade Syria then partition it.
Then keep part of syria as a safe zone for rebels (isis) from which the US can launch attacks and destabilize Assad's Syria indefinitely. At least until they get the pipeline they want.

This false flag gas attack was staged to whip up americans into a frenzy so they can justify deeper military action in the country.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 06, 2017, 05:39:17 AM
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-duran/
http://www.fakenewschecker.com/fake-news-source/duran
http://www.stopfake.org/en/russian-media-columnist-alexander-mercouris-struck-off-over-claim-that-senior-law-lord-had-him-kidnapped/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/past-comes-back-to-haunt-struck-off-barrister-turned-russia-comm/
http://nonalignedmedia.com/2016/08/western-alt-media-indistinguishable-from-russian-state-media/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts#Alleged_false_flag_operations
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38155933
"pro-government Al-Masdar News"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrian-army-creates-womens-unit-fighting-isis-islamic-state-bashar-al-assad-regime-terror-group-a7558896.html
"Al-Masdar News, which is sympathetic to the Syrian regime"
http://www.newsweek.com/syria-war-us-rebels-russia-isis-israel-569812
"pro-government Al Masdar News"
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 06, 2017, 09:28:52 AM
State-run dictatorial propaganda mills = good

Objective journalism that throws shade on Glorious Comrade Putin = bad

Though it is cute seeing a Russian troll saying Trump's own words are fake news. This is like troll inception.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on April 06, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
I don't see any reason to believe the chemical attack was committed by government forces.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on April 06, 2017, 10:10:42 AM
I trust the CIA about as far as I could throw them.

Imagine the CIA lying about a Baathist regime having WMDs? ;)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 06, 2017, 08:51:31 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/opinions/russian-hacking-is-not-another-cia-fiasco-like-iraq-wmd-bergen/
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 07, 2017, 12:02:47 AM
Quote from: Mayorhagar
Though it is cute seeing a Russian troll saying Trump's own words are fake news

Why would Assad, who is winning the war, suddenly turn around and attack his own people with gas?


Quote
Idlib Chemical Attack Staged to Blame Damascus – Syrian Lawmaker

Syrian lawmaker Halid Abud claims that the reported chemical attack in Syria’s Idlib was plotted by foreign governments to turn up political pressure on Damascus.

The lawmaker suggested Western countries had recently found themselves on the losing side and needed to create leverage against the "steady position of Iran and Russia on Syria."

Abud argued the Syrian government did not have means to drop chemical weapons far from its seat in Damascus and consequently the attack was caused by people, trying to cast shadow on the Syrian authorities

Syrian president Bashar Assad has been widely blamed for ordering the attack, although he said previously his government held no chemical weapons after agreeing to have them destroyed in 2013. He also ruled out having used chemicals against his own people.

The UN-backed OPCW, which oversaw the withdrawal of Syria’s chemical stockpile, said in January 2016 the arsenal had been fully destroyed
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704051052337497-idlib-chemical-attack-staged/ (https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704051052337497-idlib-chemical-attack-staged/)

In fact how could Assad have survived in power at all, if he constantly attacked his own people, as you claim?

Quote
Not taking the bait: Sean Spicer ignores false flag chemical attack in Syria

Hours after an apparently self-evident false flag chemical attack in Idlib, Sean Spicer affirmed that it is no longer US policy to remove President Bashar al-Assad from power.

Spicer said, "There is not a fundamental option of regime change as there has been in the past".

 The White House Press Secretary continued,

"We would look rather silly not acknowledging the political realities that exist in Syria, and now what we need to do...is do what we can to empower the people of Syria to find a different way"
This represents a clear departure from the Obama administration which seemed to double-down on calls for regime change when ever a fake news report attributing atrocities to either Syrian or Russian forces came out in the mainstream media.

 The fundamental reasons why the report of a Syrian chemical attack is fake news are laid out in full in an initial debunking report from The Duran. 

 Since that piece was published, propaganda photos were published showing the infamous al-Qaeda allied White Helmets handling the bodies of supposed sarin gas attack victims.

Shortly after the incident in Idlib, a suspiciously well timed piece from the White Helmets founder, falsely claiming to be the head of Syrian Civil Defence, was published in Britain's Guardian newspaper, urging EU leaders not to reach any kind of deal with the legitimate government of Syria during tomorrow's peace talks in Brussels.

The story which on the most fundamental evidence was clearly fake, now looks like a well timed false flag propaganda move.

 It's a pity that just as those in the western mainstream media have come to realise that the term 'false flag' is am actual thing, they still haven't come to grips with what it means.

 It seems that for once, the White House is not taking the bait.
https://www.sott.net/article/347268-Not-taking-the-bait-Sean-Spicer-ignores-false-flag-chemical-attack-in-Syria (https://www.sott.net/article/347268-Not-taking-the-bait-Sean-Spicer-ignores-false-flag-chemical-attack-in-Syria)


Lets hope Spicer is able to drill some sense into the president.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 07, 2017, 05:48:32 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)#Criticism

https://www.quora.com/Is-sott-net-signs-of-the-times-a-scam-website-How-reliable-are-its-news-articles
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: kyndo on April 07, 2017, 07:55:05 AM
In fact how could Assad have survived in power at all, if he constantly attacked his own people, as you claim?
I agree that there is a shadow of a doubt about whether or not it was the Syrian government who used the chemical weapons, but your above statement is pretty funny.  :smiley:
I can list dozens of well known national leaders who survived in power by constantly attacking their own people. Heck, many of them *gained* their political power by doing so.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on April 07, 2017, 08:18:04 AM
But the fundamental questions remain: 1) How could the Syrian government commit a chemical weapons attack when it was confirmed to have destroyed all of its chemical weapons. 2) What in the world would be the motive for such an attack? Hey, we're about to win the war and reclaim our influence over the whole country -- let's do something insane so the whole world invades us.

The idea that the government did this makes no sense. The Western-backed, head-chopping Salafist opposition clearly had more of a motive, and possibly more means to do it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on April 07, 2017, 08:56:58 AM
But the fundamental questions remain: 1) How could the Syrian government commit a chemical weapons attack when it was confirmed to have destroyed all of its chemical weapons. 2) What in the world would be the motive for such an attack? Hey, we're about to win the war and reclaim our influence over the whole country -- let's do something insane so the whole world invades us.

The idea that the government did this makes no sense. The Western-backed, head-chopping Salafist opposition clearly had more of a motive, and possibly more means to do it.

But were all of their chemical weapons destroyed?

They only had to "declare" the chemical weapons they had or could manufacture. It doesn't mean that they provided a comprehensive list of all of their chemical weapons.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on April 07, 2017, 08:59:54 AM
Well, who knows. Still lookin' for those Iraqi WMDs, though...
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 07, 2017, 09:26:54 AM
Quote from: Mayorhagar
Though it is cute seeing a Russian troll saying Trump's own words are fake news

Why would Assad, who is winning the war, suddenly turn around and attack his own people with gas?




Because he's been killing his own people for years, and Russia backs him up every time so he gets away with it?

It's telling that you know this looks bad so you and Putin turn to the usual Russia tactic of making up insane conspiracy theories to change the subject.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: SaintsCanada on April 07, 2017, 09:43:32 AM
Insane conspiracy theories like the CIA is lying that Saddam has nukes? Or like just 4 years ago, they were lying when they said Assad staged a chemical attack, and it was actually the opposition?

Without any proof presented whatsoever that the Syrian government committed this attack (which they flatly deny), yours is the conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 07, 2017, 10:38:23 AM
There's a difference between a lie and a miscalculation / error.

And the CIA never said Saddam had nukes.

He actually came really close in the past but Israeli planes bombed the facilities.

Chemical attacks were used by the Syrian government (just as they were used by Saddam in the past).

Even your pal Trump knows this.

Now the U.S. is  launching missiles against Syria. Check the news.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 07, 2017, 11:37:31 AM
Trump launches military strike against Syria

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/donald-trump-syria-military/index.html

On President Donald Trump's orders, US warships launched between 50-60 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian government airbase where the warplanes that carried out the chemical attacks were based, US officials said.

"Tonight, I ordered a targeted military strike on the air field in Syria from where the chemical attack was launched," Trump said during short remarks to reporters at Mar-a-Lago. "It is in this vital national security of the United States to prevent and deter the spread and use of deadly chemical weapons."

He added: "There can be no dispute that Syria used banned chemical weapons, violated its obligations under the Chemical Weapons Convention and ignored the urging of the UN Security Council. Years of previous attempts at changing Assad's behavior have all failed and failed very dramatically."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/donald-trump-syria-military/index.html
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: KimDuHan on April 07, 2017, 11:43:48 AM
Trump may be the last American president!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 07, 2017, 11:47:15 AM
I doubt it. The U.S. is too strong to be destroyed. Only an Islamic suicide bomber who wants to go to heaven for dying in war would try. Russia = not stupid. They (Putin, etc.) know their military is much weaker.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on April 07, 2017, 11:58:35 AM
I doubt it. The U.S. is too strong to be destroyed. Only an Islamic suicide bomber who wants to go to heaven for dying in war would try. Russia = not stupid. They (Putin, etc.) know their military is much weaker.

Troll alert. 

Bah, I think it's so obvious, it's not even worth typing.   
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 07, 2017, 12:08:28 PM
The U.S. is too strong to be destroyed.

 :laugh: you're funny.


Quote from: KimDuHan
Trump may be the last American president!

I don't think the world is quite ready for nuclear annihilation just yet.

Many of the neocons are crazy enough to think nuclear war is winnable (and their goal is US global hegemony), but the military-industrial complex knows otherwise. They just want to keep their $US 1000 000 000 annual defense budget rolling.


Trump has fallen into the trap set for him by the CIA/ military industrial complex. The gas attack was likely set up by the CIA to provide a pretext for invasion.


Evidence is now showing the white helmets killed kids to produce the video.

Quote
Swedish Medical Associations Says White Helmets Murdered Kids for Fake Gas Attack Videos

President Trump is now threatening to take America into a war against Syria, Iran and even Russia, a war he says is justified by “evidence” he has received from the Syrian White Helmets.  We will prove beyond any doubt that this is a “Deep State” organization, a melding of CIA, al Qaeda and Britain’s intelligence services. 

The visible diagnosis by a team of actual medical experts, based on what is observed in the video, indicates that the child was suffering from an injection of opiates and was likely dying of an overdose.  There is no evidence of any other agent, chemical or otherwise

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/04/06/swedish-medical-associations-says-white-helmets-murdered-kids-for-fake-gas-attack-videos/ (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/04/06/swedish-medical-associations-says-white-helmets-murdered-kids-for-fake-gas-attack-videos/)



Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 07, 2017, 12:10:15 PM
Maximmm, the Russian military is weaker than the U.S. military. It's a fact. Even if they were equal or a bit ahead (which they're not) the damage they'd get from a war with the U.S. would be far too great for them to want it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on April 07, 2017, 12:14:57 PM
Trump's impeachment has been postponed in light of WW3. All bets are off. This may be a brilliant move on Trump & Co.'s part.






I'm usually not a "the sky is falling" type person, but I may pack a go-bag tonight.
Snickers - check
passports- check


I'm done.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 07, 2017, 12:16:45 PM
There won't be a WW3. Russia won't fight the U.S. Not directly. They don't want to be destroyed.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: donovan on April 07, 2017, 12:35:48 PM
"Devin Nunes to Step Aside From House Investigation on Russia"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/us/politics/devin-nunes-house-intelligence-committee-russia.html?ref=politics

Quote
The continuing fallout from President Trump’s unsubstantiated wiretapping allegation cost him another ally on Thursday, as the embattled Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced he would step aside from his panel’s investigation into Russia’s efforts to disrupt last year’s election.

The announcement from the committee’s chairman, Representative Devin Nunes of California, came shortly before the House Committee on Ethics said he was under investigation because of public reports that he “may have made unauthorized disclosures of classified information.”
...
“Any talk of that is nonsense,” Mr. Nunes said in an interview with The Times last month.

Mr. Nunes said in a statement that the ethics investigation was “entirely false and politically motivated” and that he would remain the intelligence committee’s chairman. But it was in the intelligence committee’s best interests for him to temporarily step aside from the Russia investigation, he said.

One less hurdle to a clean congressional investigation.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 07, 2017, 04:21:28 PM
Trump's impeachment has been postponed in light of WW3.

The establishment realizes Trump has surrendered and become one of them. So no more need to impeach.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on April 07, 2017, 05:02:53 PM
Trump's impeachment has been postponed in light of WW3.

The establishment realizes Trump has surrendered and become one of them. So no more need to impeach.

That happened a lot earlier than just now - remember his budget proposal?  That's as pro-establishment as it goes, at least in the US.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 08, 2017, 01:01:18 AM
Aurata, will you please stop posting fake news?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_H._Fetzer
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: KimDuHan on April 08, 2017, 11:05:53 AM
He'll probably be a one term president depending on his health and family.

Trump is older and being the president is hard. If he is healthy and his family approves he could run for a second term but would lose to a good democrat candidate. However if the democrats provide a shitty candidate again trump will win.

He won't be impeached.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Andyman on April 13, 2017, 08:25:31 AM
State-run dictatorial propaganda mills = good

Objective journalism that throws shade on Glorious Comrade Putin = bad


A digital forensic analysis of how credulous sheeple renowned critical thinkers, with an inflexible commitment to "facts and logic", got duped by the #SyriaHoax BS.

https://medium.com/dfrlab/how-the-alt-right-brought-syriahoax-to-america-47745118d1c9
 (https://medium.com/dfrlab/how-the-alt-right-brought-syriahoax-to-america-47745118d1c9)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on April 13, 2017, 08:41:11 AM
He'll probably be a one term president depending on his health and family.

Trump is older and being the president is hard. If he is healthy and his family approves he could run for a second term but would lose to a good democrat candidate. However if the democrats provide a shitty candidate again trump will win.

He won't be impeached.

It's hard being a weekday President and weekend golfer.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 14, 2017, 09:40:10 AM
The establishment realizes Trump has surrendered and become one of them. So no more need to impeach.

Aurata calling it yet again.

There's every indication Team Trump are now owned by the corporatists, ideologically they are now NY Democrats, and have abandoned their entire base. The establishment now likes Trump, he is them.

To their credit, they lasted 3 months, which is 3 months longer than anyone has ever lasted. They also opened a lot of eyes, this is yet more evidence how bad the swap is, dominated by corporations, and policed by the corporate media.

Next step, I think is for Bannon to go back to running the big guns at Mercer-funded media. This was a win for him as 1) it will increase populist rage, and 2) he is now of demigod status as he never backed down, never flip-flopped. Wage all out war and prepare an outside candidate for 2020. Bannon isn't a guy to just sit around neutralized doing nothing, unless maybe he decides to stay to gather intel on the system, to sabotage it.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on April 14, 2017, 10:02:04 AM
The establishment realizes Trump has surrendered and become one of them. So no more need to impeach.

Aurata calling it yet again.

There's every indication Team Trump are now owned by the corporatists, ideologically they are now NY Democrats, and have abandoned their entire base. The establishment now likes Trump, he is them.

To their credit, they lasted 3 months, which is 3 months longer than anyone has ever lasted. They also opened a lot of eyes, this is yet more evidence how bad the swap is, dominated by corporations, and policed by the corporate media.
Orrrrr, you, and people like you, were gullible enough to be taken in by Trump's ranting and raving throughout the campaign about draining the swamp etc. In your naivety you actually thought he was going to do what he said he was. And now you realise he is for the most part, a chubby bag of hot air, you try to switch it up with "Oh man! the globalists got to him. Damn it! I hate when that happens!" Grow up mate.
Quote
Next step, I think is for Bannon to go back to running the big guns at Mercer-funded media. This was a win for him as 1) it will increase populist rage, and 2) he is now of demigod status as he never backed down, never flip-flopped. Wage all out war and prepare an outside candidate for 2020. Bannon isn't a guy to just sit around neutralized doing nothing, unless maybe he decides to stay to gather intel on the system, to sabotage it.
Again trying to rewrite history. You were all up in his ass saying how great Bannon was and how he was the one who was going to move things foward. A week later, he's been demoted, because Trump has the ego of a teenager and people trolled him about how Bannon was the power behind the throne, and he couldnt handle that and moved to limit his influence.

So excuse me if I take your "analysis" and quietly fold it up and place it softly in the trash bin. Becuase you always seem to be wrong. Have you ever been right? You seem to make predictions based solely on your personal jackoff fantasies. Not a good strategy for accuracy.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on April 14, 2017, 10:03:25 AM
Trump is holding strong on immigration. There might at least be some change there.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 14, 2017, 10:41:15 AM
Orrrrr, you, and people like you, were gullible enough to be taken in by Trump's ranting and raving throughout the campaign about draining the swamp etc. In your naivety you actually thought...

Yawn. I'm not a part of your small-minded petty little republicans vs democrats tribal war, you assume everyone is "one of those people" (like you). Nope.  :smiley:

Again trying to rewrite history. You were all up in his ass saying how great Bannon was and how he was the one who was going to move things foward.

You aren't really capable of understanding. Progressives believe in "forward", Bannonism is about deconstruction of "progress", because it is a dangerous illusion. So the last part of your sentence is false.

The first part of your sentence is true. Bannon is great, and nothing has fundamentally changed about that. There is a revolutionary war going on in American, fought in the media age, and that war continues from inside the WH, or from outside. You seem to equate turning into a corporatist to stay relevant as "winning", he wins by being thrown out for being loyal to the American voters.

To be clear, I'm for revolution and destroying the entire system.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: zola on April 14, 2017, 10:50:49 AM
Orrrrr, you, and people like you, were gullible enough to be taken in by Trump's ranting and raving throughout the campaign about draining the swamp etc. In your naivety you actually thought...

Yawn. I'm not a part of your small-minded petty little republicans vs democrats tribal war, you assume everyone is "one of those people" (like you). Nope.  :smiley:

Again trying to rewrite history. You were all up in his ass saying how great Bannon was and how he was the one who was going to move things foward.

You aren't really capable of understanding. Progressives believe in "forward", Bannonism is about deconstruction of "progress", because it is a dangerous illusion. So the last part of your sentence is false.

The first part of your sentence is true. Bannon is great, and nothing has fundamentally changed about that. There is a revolutionary war going on in American, fought in the media age, and that war continues from inside the WH, or from outside. You seem to equate turning into a corporatist to stay relevant as "winning", he wins by being thrown out for being loyal to the American voters.

To be clear, I'm for revolution and destroying the entire system.
Well that was a load of blather wasn't it.
I'm not American and I couldn't give 2 poos about either side. This about the clueless Clarences, like yourself, who were throwing out wild predictions and now when reality sets in you come in with some revisionist nonsense. Just admit you were wrong and move along. No need to futher embarrass yourself.

You can be for anything you want to be. Doesn't make any of your past assertions and predcitions any more right.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 14, 2017, 11:07:50 AM
...the clueless Clarences, like yourself, who were throwing out wild predictions and now when reality sets in...

I forecast all this a decade ago (the fall of the US due to the social collapse and rampant corporatism, the economic center moving Eastward, and USG bankruptcy), which is why I am positioned in Asia. Reality HAS set in, and I was right.  :azn:

And all of my forecasts on the populist uprising, led by Bannon/Mercer still hold. There is no way to stop this uprising because America will continue to collapse, and people will get angrier.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 14, 2017, 11:41:58 AM
"And I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling globalists!"
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on April 15, 2017, 11:04:14 AM
No, Trump is not going to be impeached over his job performance.  Again, read about what it took to get Nixon to resign.  His diet might get him before 2020….  And, I always thought that there was a probability that he might resign after the election, but I thought that probability was highest the day after the Electoral College voted.

Also, remember President Bill Clinton?  His job approval, according to Gallup, hit lows of 39% in August and September of 1994.  Then, even with talk of impeachment he easily won a second term. 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116584/presidential-approval-ratings-bill-clinton.aspx

As I have previously said on here if a President can get 60-70% of what they want that is a victory.  If this means changing some positions and/or doing some compromising, that is all part of the game/process.  Bill Clinton and Reagan were really good at doing this.  They both made compromises but they both also kept moving their “big” agenda forward. Just as long as Trump keeps his “big” agenda moving forward, even with some change of positions and/or compromises, Trump will be alright.  The next two years will tell the story…. 

Below is an interesting article talking about Trump listening to others, making adjustments and keeping the “big” Trump picture in mind.  And, it’s even a NY Times article.  Sometimes reality forces the media to lift their blinders, just a little….Some excerpts are below:

Quote
Focused on Trump’s Successes, Many Supporters Are Unfazed by His Reversals
By JEREMY W. PETERSAPRIL 14, 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/us/politics/trump-policy-conservatives-rush-limbaugh.html?_r=1

WASHINGTON — As some on the right howled about a series of reversals by President Trump on a number of his campaign promises — conned, betrayed, sold out, they said — Rush Limbaugh asked his listeners this week whether any of that flip-flopping really mattered.

“See what Jeff Sessions is doing?” Mr. Limbaugh said of the attorney general, answering his own question: “Damn straight.”…….

The sentiment that Mr. Limbaugh was homing in on — the undented confidence that many Trump supporters have in the president as a get-things-done leader and deal maker — is the reason many conservatives say they do not think Mr. Trump will suffer much as he abandons some of his policy stances. They are not inclined to punish him, they say, even after he backed off his hard lines on NATO, the Chinese and the Export-Import Bank, and attacked Syria after having opposed such intervention.

No matter how many people try to tell them they have been played for fools, much to their annoyance, that is not a conclusion they seem likely to reach before Mr. Trump even marks his 100th day in office.

They knew all along that they were not voting for a man with concrete convictions. And they continue to see that lack of rigidity — his preference for the transactional over the dogmatic — as a quality they want in a chief executive.

So while much of the country sees the swerving on policy as another sign of White House dysfunction, many conservatives shrug it off as esoteric jockeying over foreign alliances, currency manipulation and economic policy. They are focused more, they say, on what they see as a litany of recent victories.

Illegal border crossings are down sharply, a development that Mr. Sessions promoted in a visit to Arizona this week…….

As Mr. Trump’s policy reversals and other contentious moves draw scrutiny from the news media and criticism from his political adversaries, many Trump supporters seem to be rallying around him in the face of what they see as a relentless onslaught.
“That does tend to bond them to him — every day they see him attacked,” said Tim Phillips, president of Americans for Prosperity, which is backed by the billionaire Koch brothers.

Polls have shown that Mr. Trump’s popularity has not suffered significantly because of his contradictions and backsliding.

By this point, supporters seem to be getting used to it all, forgiving of what they see as logical shifts away from more extreme positions as part of the deal-making process. The most recent surveys from Gallup showed that Mr. Trump’s approval rating among Republicans is actually rising and now stands at 87 percent.

“We’ve learned absolutely nothing about Donald Trump since he was inaugurated that wasn’t patently obvious for the last year and a half,” said Whit Ayres, a Republican pollster. “Nothing new about his temperament, his knowledge base, his personality or his management style. Nothing.”

But when Mr. Trump is perceived as incompetent and incoherent, his image suffers far more.

Although his approval ratings have been low from the start, his popularity began a slide after the first week in March, when he insisted, without any evidence, that President Barack Obama had wiretapped Trump Tower. His numbers got worse after he failed to get through Congress his first major legislative initiative: the repeal and replacement of the Affordable Care Act.

His policies appear to have had little to do with the slide, though it probably did not help that one of them — the ban on travel from seven predominantly Muslim countries — has been tangled up and tainted by the continuing fight in the courts over its constitutionality.
But the policy reversals have left some on the right feeling betrayed, often bitterly so. The writer and pundit Ann Coulter, in a column prominently featured on the Breitbart News home page under the headline “Lassie, Come Home,” said Mr. Trump had turned his back on supporters like her who want America less engaged in conflicts overseas.

“We want the ‘president of America’ back — not ‘the president of the world,’” she wrote.
Laura Ingraham, the radio host and writer, has said she worries that Mr. Trump is drifting from the tenets of his campaign: anti-globalism, a smaller military footprint and conservative populism. But she does not sense that everyone shares her disappointment.
There are quantifiable signs of inching forward……..

                                 

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 15, 2017, 07:08:47 PM
No, Trump is not going to be impeached over his job performance. 

They will blame him, however, for acting on flawed information deliberately fed to him by the CIA.

Already the evidence is mounting that the Idlib gas attack was not the work of Assad.


Quote
White House claims on Syria attack obviously false-MIT Professor

I have worked with the intelligence community in the past, and I have grave concerns about the politicization of intelligence that seems to be occurring with more frequency in recent times – but I know that the intelligence community has highly capable analysts in it. And if those analysts were properly consulted about the claims in the White House document they would have not approved the document going forward.

I am available to expand on these comments substantially. I have only had a few hours to quickly review the alleged White House intelligence report. But a quick perusal shows without a lot of analysis that this report cannot be correct, and it also appears that this report was not properly vetted by the intelligence community.

This is a very serious matter.

President Obama was initially misinformed about supposed intelligence evidence that Syria was the perpetrator of the August 21, 2013 nerve agent attack in Damascus. This is a matter of public record.

President Obama stated that his initially false understanding was that the intelligence clearly showed that Syria was the source of the nerve agent attack. This false information was corrected when the then Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, interrupted the President while he was in an intelligence briefing. According to President Obama, Mr. Clapper told the President that the intelligence that Syria was the perpetrator of the attack was “not a slamdunk.”

The question that needs to be answered by our nation is how was the president initially misled about such a profoundly important intelligence finding?

https://www.rt.com/usa/384520-postol-report-sarin-syria/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/384520-postol-report-sarin-syria/)


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on April 15, 2017, 10:02:12 PM


https://www.rt.com


(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/50369080/x-x-everywhere-vatniks-vatniks-everywhere.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Andyman on April 16, 2017, 08:16:33 AM

They will blame him, however, for acting on flawed information deliberately fed to him by the CIA.

Already the evidence is mounting that the Idlib gas attack was not the work of Assad.

Hey Aurata, remember how you were saying there was no gas attack at all, like 10 minutes ago?

Slightly off topic, but I'm reminded of how right after September 11, Alex Jones and his followers claimed that virtually every Islamist terrorist attack was a false flag, staged by the globalists to lead the US into perpetual war. Then Obama got elected and all of a sudden Islamism was a real threat. Not only that, but the president was one of its chief ideologues, acting through his various affiliations to the Muslim Brotherhood, Indonesian mullahs, African factions of al-Qaeda, the Nation of Islam, whatever... All of his immigration policies were about stacking the vote for Democrats by refusing to "secure the border" (because the first thing a newly arrived illegal immigrant from Mexico does is look for a local polling booth, once they've scoured every mailbox in sight, searching for a stray voter registration form to illegally present at the election site - a totally worthwhile risk, in the sinister calculus of those living under permanent threat of deportation) and letting more Muslims into the country to help with his ultimate goal of Islamicizing the United States.


2007 - This was obviously a false flag, designed to whip up fear about a non-existent threat so that the state can penetrate deeper into the lives of American citizens.

2008 - Islamist terrorism is the number one threat facing America today, and they've even managed to put a sympathizer in the White House. If this government of limp-wristed liberals wasn't so weak, they'd use the full force of the state to protect us from this threat.


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Andyman on April 16, 2017, 08:29:39 AM
More evidence of how the dastardly globalists have compromised Trump, a man of previously unparalleled integrity.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-hiring-lobbyists-top-ethics-official-says-no-transparency (https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-hiring-lobbyists-top-ethics-official-says-no-transparency)

(Or, the most predictable thing that's happened since January 20, 2017, depending on one's vulnerability to hypnosis by inarticulate windbags)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 16, 2017, 01:04:04 PM
Hey Aurata, remember how you were saying there was no gas attack at all, like 10 minutes ago?

Well it seemed odd that they were handling "sarin" without gloves.

Certainly it would have gone against logic for Assad to use chemical weapons when a) he was winning the war and knew that such use would invite western attack b) chemical weapons were certifiably removed from the Syrian govt. only last year.

Quote
Slightly off topic, but I'm reminded of how right after September 11, Alex Jones and his followers claimed that virtually every Islamist terrorist attack was a false flag, staged by the globalists to lead the US into perpetual war. Then Obama got elected and all of a sudden Islamism was a real threat.

agreed, they contradicted themselves here. Just like the mainstream media, they're right on some things, wrong on others.

I assess all arguments on their own merit.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on April 16, 2017, 01:12:32 PM
More evidence of how the dastardly globalists have compromised Trump, a man of previously unparalleled integrity.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-hiring-lobbyists-top-ethics-official-says-no-transparency (https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-hiring-lobbyists-top-ethics-official-says-no-transparency)

(Or, the most predictable thing that's happened since January 20, 2017, depending on one's vulnerability to hypnosis by inarticulate windbags)

Drain the swamp? Trump's never left the swamp. He loves the swamp. The swamp helps him to continue making money.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 16, 2017, 07:45:06 PM
Berkeley PUNCH landed vs "anti-fa"!  :laugh:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9fL6QTUIAAExXG.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on April 16, 2017, 09:42:43 PM
It's funny because there were plenty of masked people on both sides.  Hillary nazis are fighting Trump nazis - I'm actually enjoying this. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 16, 2017, 09:52:06 PM
It's funny because there were plenty of masked people on both sides.  Hillary nazis are fighting Trump nazis - I'm actually enjoying this.

Me too, this is how I always forecasted America's future...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kFKc-djl24&t=0s
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 16, 2017, 10:10:33 PM
It's funny because there were plenty of masked people on both sides.  Hillary nazis are fighting Trump nazis - I'm actually enjoying this.

Did you see any masked Trump supporters? I didn't. Only on the anarchist side. (Look at who's dressed in all black if you're confused about that.) Who aren't Hillary supporters by the way. They incorrectly believe - as you do - Clinton and Trump are both bad / equally bad, when the reality is Trump is far worse for the country.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 16, 2017, 10:26:24 PM
They incorrectly believe - as you do - Clinton and Trump are both bad / equally bad, when the reality is Trump is far worse for the country.

Hillary would have been worse, because like Obama, she would have tried to sweep problems under the rug, keep ignoring. The problems can't be ignored. Trump is better because his existence tells everyone in the world...
 
THERE IS SOMETHING VERY VERY WRONG WITH AMERICA.

Time for people (like you) to wake up.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 16, 2017, 10:34:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwQAyskqG0g
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on April 21, 2017, 04:50:42 PM
Is it just me, or is there something very very wrong with Steven Mnuchin? Is he still, alive??

"To the extent you manipulate a currency that advantages the United States, it’s not currency manipulation. This is a defined term."

(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2016/11/29/19/steven-mnuchin.jpg)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: freddyinkorea on April 24, 2017, 11:47:14 PM
IMPEACHED!!! I personally can't wait. At least Mike Pence can form an intelligent sentence and understands basic government functioning.

Reasons to impeach can be found here, plus any new ones that may will arise in the near future.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/318045-the-house-can-start-impeachment-against-trump-now

Quote
Poll: 4 in 10 support impeaching Trump

Autoplay: On | Off
Much of the public is eager for the impeachment of President Trump. A poll last week found that 40 percent of Americans already “support” impeaching him, and the same survey — by highly regarded Public Policy Polling — found that another 12 percent are “not sure.”

From the outset of his presidency, Trump has been violating the U.S. Constitution in a way that we have not seen before and should not tolerate. It’s time for members of Congress to get the impeachment process underway.

The Constitution states that to start impeachment proceedings, a document or “resolution calling for a committee investigation of charges against the officer in question” must be introduced in the House of Representatives. Such a move would have been appropriate from the moment that Trump became president.
As documented in depth on the ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org website — where more than 600,000 people have already signed a petition for impeachment — the president continues to violate two “emoluments” clauses in the Constitution. One prohibits any gifts or benefits from foreign governments, and the other prohibits the same from the U.S. government or any U.S. state.

To uphold the bedrock principle that no one should be above the supreme law of the land, a resolute member of the House must now take the lead in introducing a resolution to get impeachment rolling. That process is necessarily difficult — and essential.

Former White House counsel John Dean, who served President Nixon from 1970 to 1973, told The Atlantic magazine: “I don’t think Richard Nixon even comes close to the level of corruption we already know about Trump.”

Since that interview with Dean three weeks ago, we’ve been learning more about Trump’s unconstitutional corruption as president. The case that Trump is in flagrant violation of the Constitution gained added strength over the weekend when The Associated Press reported: “New documents confirm that President Donald Trump retains a direct tie to his business interests through a revocable trust now being overseen by one of his adult sons and a longtime executive of the Trump Organization.”

What’s more, AP reported, “Trump is the sole beneficiary of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, which is tied to his Social Security number as the taxpayer identification number, according to documents published online by the investigative nonprofit ProPublica. And Trump can revoke the trust, which was amended three days before his inauguration, at any time.”

Members of Congress should initiate an impeachment process because of two clear provisions in the Constitution.

The Foreign Emoluments Clause says: “[N]o Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States], shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.”

And the Constitution’s Domestic Emoluments Clause (also known as the Presidential Compensation Clause), which cannot be waived by Congress, says: “The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”

In addition, a House committee’s impeachment probe should also investigate whether President Trump is violating the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge Act of 2012 (STOCK Act). One of the few federal ethics statutes that specifically include the president, the STOCK Act — among other provisions — prohibits the president from (1) using nonpublic information for private profit, and from (2) intentionally influencing an employment decision or practice of a private entity solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation.

A crucial test for democracy is whether people in high places can violate the law with impunity. For democracy in the United States, the biggest danger is unchecked presidential ability to violate the Constitution.

In a speech on the House floor last Thursday that spelled out some of Trump’s extreme conflicts-of-interest, Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI) closed with a cogent reference to the fact that Congress can “even explore the power of impeachment.”

Let the exploration begin.

Norman Solomon is co-founder of the activist group RootsAction.org, which has nearly 1 million supporters online. He was a Bernie Sanders delegate from California to the Democratic National Convention, where he was the leader and coordinator of the Bernie Delegates Network. RootsAction and Free Speech For People are sponsoring the grassroots impeachment campaign at ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org."



https://www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/

And then there is the actual man running the show:

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/02/06/trump-not-fully-briefed-order-elevating-bannon-security-council

Quote
President Donald Trump reportedly did not realize he was promoting chief strategist Steve Bannon to the National Security Council (NSC) Principals Committee when he signed the executive order dropping intelligence and defense officials from the top government panel and elevating the former Breitbart News chair in their place.

The New York Times reported over the weekend that Trump had not been fully briefed on his own executive order, which became "a greater source of frustration to the president" than the protests and legal actions over his travel ban blocking immigrants from seven majority-Muslim countries.

Reporters Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman depicted an administration that's just barely keeping a lid on its internal crises, turf wars, and lack of preparation—and a scheming chief strategist that's successfully taken advantage of it all.

They wrote:

[White House chief of staff Reince] Priebus told Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon that the administration needs to rethink its policy and communications operation in the wake of embarrassing revelations that key details of the orders were withheld from agencies, White House staff, and Republican congressional leaders like Speaker Paul D. Ryan.

Mr. Priebus has also created a 10-point checklist for the release of any new initiatives that includes signoff from the communications department and the White House staff secretary, Robert Porter, according to several aides familiar with the process.

Mr. Priebus bristles at the perception that he occupies a diminished perch in the West Wing pecking order compared with previous chiefs. But for the moment, Mr. Bannon remains the president's dominant adviser, despite Mr. Trump's anger that he was not fully briefed on details of the executive order he signed giving his chief strategist a seat on the National Security Council, a greater source of frustration to the president than the fallout from the travel ban.

Trump seemingly clarified on Twitter that he calls his own shots, "largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it." He also accused the Times of writing "total fiction" about him.

The executive order promoted Bannon, a white nationalist with no foreign policy or government experience, to a regular seat at some of the most sensitive meetings at the highest levels of government, along with other NSC meetings. Meanwhile, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—who need to be confirmed by the Senate—were directed to only attend meetings when discussions pertain to their "responsibilities and expertise."

The memo led to speculation that the right-wing power grab in the executive branch could be setting the stage for a coup d'état.

Dude from your link.

1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

2) 40 percent of Americans already “support” impeaching him.  Talk about uneducated...  Lol how the f can you have a "poll" to impeach?  Guess that 40% are all lawyers? 

Stopped reading, how can anyone have a civil conversation with these people?  Seriously just think of just these 2 opening things?  If you can't deduce why these points are wrong, I'll call you names to prove I'm right.  Lol.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 28, 2017, 02:12:02 AM
1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

Trump is basically a zombie owned by the deep state now.

At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.

But so long as he keeps doing as he's told they'll keep him around.

The next plans of the globalists are to keep isolating Russian support of Assad by continuing to use false flag gas attacks in Syria. Keep ramping up pressure on Russia to dessert Assad.

Once Syria falls, Iran will be next. Ultimately Washington wants to send their paid jihadists to start wars all over China and Russia.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on April 28, 2017, 06:50:39 AM


At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.


Impeach the US president over a stupid bombing?  That's a funny one. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on April 28, 2017, 07:34:00 AM
I guess if Trump got impeached he could join Obama and the Clintons on the Wall Street speaking tour…..

Quote
Warren: I was ‘troubled’ by Obama’s Wall Street speaking fee
By Aidan Quigley
04/27/17 04:03 PM EDT

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/27/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-wall-street-speaking-fee-237702

Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren joined liberal critics of Barack Obama’s decision to accept $400,000 from a Wall Street firm for a speech on health care.
                                     
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 28, 2017, 12:16:35 PM


At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.


Impeach the US president over a stupid bombing?  That's a funny one.

The "strupid bombing" is an international war crime. Innocent people were killed. Obviously America flouting international law is no big deal to you.

the neo-liberal establishment is very funny. they can make mountains out of molehills, spin the media to create whatever impression they want.

if they could impeach him over "contact with Russia" then they could definitely impeach over an international war crime.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on April 28, 2017, 01:12:36 PM
I guess if Trump got impeached he could join Obama and the Clintons on the Wall Street speaking tour…..

Quote
Warren: I was ‘troubled’ by Obama’s Wall Street speaking fee
By Aidan Quigley
04/27/17 04:03 PM EDT

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/27/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-wall-street-speaking-fee-237702

Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren joined liberal critics of Barack Obama’s decision to accept $400,000 from a Wall Street firm for a speech on health care.
                                     

Trump would first criticize Obama for taking money from Wall Street; only for Trump, himself to do the same thing after he leaves office.

Just like draining the swamp became jump right into the swamp.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on April 28, 2017, 02:11:22 PM


The "strupid bombing" is an international war crime. Innocent people were killed. Obviously America flouting international law is no big deal to you.

the neo-liberal establishment is very funny. they can make mountains out of molehills, spin the media to create whatever impression they want.

if they could impeach him over "contact with Russia" then they could definitely impeach over an international war crime.

What's funny is that you think laws apply to the US presidents.  This is no SK, amigo.  They never go to prison and get impeached only if they piss off someone very powerful in the establishment - and trump has now been turned into a puppet of the establishment -   



Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 28, 2017, 03:34:06 PM


The "strupid bombing" is an international war crime. Innocent people were killed. Obviously America flouting international law is no big deal to you.

the neo-liberal establishment is very funny. they can make mountains out of molehills, spin the media to create whatever impression they want.

if they could impeach him over "contact with Russia" then they could definitely impeach over an international war crime.

What's funny is that you think laws apply to the US presidents.  This is no SK, amigo.  They never go to prison and get impeached only if they piss off someone very powerful in the establishment - and trump has now been turned into a puppet of the establishment -

Why are you repeating back what I just told you as if it was something you thought up by yourself? Try to pay attention.

Of course the deep state can impeach him whenever they want for any reason they choose. They have him by the goolies which is why he has become a controlled zombie that dares not step out of line.

The real (hidden) government of the US never changes: only the figureheads selected by the people.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: freddyinkorea on April 28, 2017, 09:06:25 PM
1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

Trump is basically a zombie owned by the deep state now.

At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.

But so long as he keeps doing as he's told they'll keep him around.

The next plans of the globalists are to keep isolating Russian support of Assad by continuing to use false flag gas attacks in Syria. Keep ramping up pressure on Russia to dessert Assad.

Once Syria falls, Iran will be next. Ultimately Washington wants to send their paid jihadists to start wars all over China and Russia.

You should totally impeach Trump, how could anyone disagree?  I mean no president has attacked another country, have they?   
   
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 28, 2017, 10:47:49 PM
1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

Trump is basically a zombie owned by the deep state now.

At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.

But so long as he keeps doing as he's told they'll keep him around.

The next plans of the globalists are to keep isolating Russian support of Assad by continuing to use false flag gas attacks in Syria. Keep ramping up pressure on Russia to dessert Assad.

Once Syria falls, Iran will be next. Ultimately Washington wants to send their paid jihadists to start wars all over China and Russia.

You should totally impeach Trump, how could anyone disagree?  I mean no president has attacked another country, have they?   
 

I beg your pardon, but...you're still missing the point.

The Syria strike is the first time that a president has engaged in an unambiguous war crime without any cover.

There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing.

Nothing. Trump was led into committing an unambiguous war crime by the CIA. In doing so, he has given his enemies (the Hilary brigade, the military-security complex, the CIA a clear-cut case for impeachment. Now they own him.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: freddyinkorea on April 28, 2017, 11:08:46 PM
1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

Trump is basically a zombie owned by the deep state now.

At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.

But so long as he keeps doing as he's told they'll keep him around.

The next plans of the globalists are to keep isolating Russian support of Assad by continuing to use false flag gas attacks in Syria. Keep ramping up pressure on Russia to dessert Assad.

Once Syria falls, Iran will be next. Ultimately Washington wants to send their paid jihadists to start wars all over China and Russia.

You should totally impeach Trump, how could anyone disagree?  I mean no president has attacked another country, have they?   
 

I beg your pardon, but...you're still missing the point.

The Syria strike is the first time that a president has engaged in an unambiguous war crime without any cover.

There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing.

Nothing. Trump was led into committing an unambiguous war crime by the CIA. In doing so, he has given his enemies (the Hilary brigade, the military-security complex, the CIA a clear-cut case for impeachment. Now they own him.

Lol are you sure about that?  Except for a quick google search.  Listen I'm not here to educate people, but really? 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 28, 2017, 11:15:36 PM
1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

Trump is basically a zombie owned by the deep state now.

At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.

But so long as he keeps doing as he's told they'll keep him around.

The next plans of the globalists are to keep isolating Russian support of Assad by continuing to use false flag gas attacks in Syria. Keep ramping up pressure on Russia to dessert Assad.

Once Syria falls, Iran will be next. Ultimately Washington wants to send their paid jihadists to start wars all over China and Russia.

You should totally impeach Trump, how could anyone disagree?  I mean no president has attacked another country, have they?   
 

I beg your pardon, but...you're still missing the point.

The Syria strike is the first time that a president has engaged in an unambiguous war crime without any cover.

There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing.

Nothing. Trump was led into committing an unambiguous war crime by the CIA. In doing so, he has given his enemies (the Hilary brigade, the military-security complex, the CIA a clear-cut case for impeachment. Now they own him.

Lol are you sure about that?  Except for a quick google search.  Listen I'm not here to educate people, but really?

No please.. educate us.

A US president.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: freddyinkorea on April 28, 2017, 11:24:19 PM
1) why would people be eager to impeach the legally binding elected president?

Trump is basically a zombie owned by the deep state now.

At best, he's extremely easy to manipulate. They only had to show him pictures of crying babies and he stupidly bombed Syria without even thinking.

That is a war crime, and the deep state know they can have him impeached at any moment for it.

But so long as he keeps doing as he's told they'll keep him around.

The next plans of the globalists are to keep isolating Russian support of Assad by continuing to use false flag gas attacks in Syria. Keep ramping up pressure on Russia to dessert Assad.

Once Syria falls, Iran will be next. Ultimately Washington wants to send their paid jihadists to start wars all over China and Russia.

You should totally impeach Trump, how could anyone disagree?  I mean no president has attacked another country, have they?   
 

I beg your pardon, but...you're still missing the point.

The Syria strike is the first time that a president has engaged in an unambiguous war crime without any cover.

There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing.

Nothing. Trump was led into committing an unambiguous war crime by the CIA. In doing so, he has given his enemies (the Hilary brigade, the military-security complex, the CIA a clear-cut case for impeachment. Now they own him.

Lol are you sure about that?  Except for a quick google search.  Listen I'm not here to educate people, but really?

No please.. educate us.

A US president.

Lol ok then please do a Google search, if you can't find the answer to, "There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing." then you must be using a different internet.



 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on April 29, 2017, 12:23:25 AM
Quote from: Aurata
No please.. educate us.

A US president.

Lol ok then please do a Google search, if you can't find the answer to, "There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing." then you must be using a different internet.

You've got nothing.

I asked you for the last time a US president ordered an unprovoked attack on another country, without a UN resolution, NATO participation, or coalition of the willing.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 29, 2017, 04:26:01 PM
Obama’s Wall Street speaking fee

So what? He got paid to speak and spoke. He gets big bucks for his star power. It's a free country. That's his right. He can use that money to fund a charity or do whatever else he wants with it. It's not like there is a secret conspiracy going on; he's no longer in power. Just a famous guy people will pay a lot to see / make an appearance.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on April 29, 2017, 04:58:29 PM
Obama’s Wall Street speaking fee

So what? He got paid to speak and spoke. He gets big bucks for his star power. It's a free country. That's his right. He can use that money to fund a charity or do whatever else he wants with it. It's not like there is a secret conspiracy going on; he's no longer in power. Just a famous guy people will pay a lot to see / make an appearance.

Exactly!  We agree that Obama’s engagements with Wall Street are very profitable and similar to those of other presidents.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on April 29, 2017, 05:07:30 PM
There should be no problem at all with retired ex-presidents doing Wall Street speaking tours.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: freddyinkorea on April 30, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
Quote from: Aurata
No please.. educate us.

A US president.

Lol ok then please do a Google search, if you can't find the answer to, "There was no UN resolution. There was no NATO participation, no coalition of the willing." then you must be using a different internet.

You've got nothing.

I asked you for the last time a US president ordered an unprovoked attack on another country, without a UN resolution, NATO participation, or coalition of the willing.

I don't leave links because half the internet is a lie, that's why I said do a search and research yourself.  What are you searching for, in Google?   Search for,  "How can Trump bomb Syria?"  Lol funny 2 days ago the results were totally different, but you should still be able to find your answer.   

So for this thread to impeach, this just started with bombing Syria?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: freddyinkorea on April 30, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
It's funny because there were plenty of masked people on both sides.  Hillary nazis are fighting Trump nazis - I'm actually enjoying this.

Me too, this is how I always forecasted America's future...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kFKc-djl24&t=0s

Dude you were destine for so much more.  Forecast away, seems intriguing.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 01, 2017, 09:01:10 AM
I see that President Candidate Trump spoke at the weekend to the 46% of all Americans that voted for him touting his non-accomplishments and his disdain of the enemy; not Iran or North Korea but the US media.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 01, 2017, 09:17:39 AM
He's preparing for 2020. Already raised tens of millions of dollars. Slogan will be 'Keep America Great'.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on May 01, 2017, 09:29:19 AM
He's preparing for 2020. Already raised tens of millions of dollars. Slogan will be 'Keep America Great'.

I'm continually amazed at how long the American election cycle is. Maybe not the worst thing he could do? To make the election cycle four years is an interesting gambit.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 01, 2017, 09:57:37 AM
So, for those who like to “rationalize” that Trump only won because of the votes of fascists, sexists, racists, bigots and all the other ISTs, then it looks like Obama’s victory in 2012 was also facilitated by the votes of fascists, sexists, racists, bigots and all the other ISTs…… 

It’s these “Obama-Trump” voters that Trump needs to keep if he plans to run and win in 2020.

Quote
Some excerpts:

Democrats say they now know exactly why Clinton lost

Tribune Washington Bureau 7 hrs ago

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-say-they-now-know-exactly-why-clinton-lost/ar-BBAyW55?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=LENDHP

WASHINGTON — A group of top Democratic Party strategists have used new data about last year's presidential election to reach a startling conclusion about why Hillary Clinton lost. Now they just need to persuade the rest of the party they're right.

Many Democrats have a shorthand explanation for Clinton's defeat: Her base didn't turn out, Donald Trump's did and the difference was too much to overcome.

But new information shows that Clinton had a much bigger problem with voters who had supported President Barack Obama in 2012 but backed Trump four years later.

Those Obama-Trump voters effectively accounted for more than two-thirds of the reason Clinton lost, according to Matt Canter, a senior vice president of the Democratic political firm Global Strategy Group.


In his group's analysis, about 70 percent of Clinton's failure to reach Obama's vote total in 2012 was because she lost these voters.

Canter and other members of Global Strategy Group have delivered a detailed report of their findings to senators, congressmen, fellow operatives and think tank wonks — all part of an effort to educate party leaders about what the data say really happened in last year's election.

"We have to make sure we learn the right lesson from 2016, that we don't just draw the lesson that makes us feel good at night, make us sleep well at night," Canter said.

His firm's conclusion is shared broadly by other Democrats who have examined the data, including senior members of Clinton's campaign and officials at the Democratic data and analytics firm Catalist. (The New York Times, in its own analysis, reached a similar conclusion.)

Each group made its assessment by analyzing voter files –– reports that show who voted in every state, and matching them to existing data about the voters, including demographic information and voting history. The groups determined how people voted — in what amounts to the most comprehensive way to analyze the electorate short of a full census…..

                       
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 01, 2017, 10:05:10 AM
I see that President Candidate Trump spoke at the weekend to the 46% of all Americans that voted for him touting his non-accomplishments and his disdain of the enemy; not Iran or North Korea but the US media.

As opposed to the White House Correspondent's Dinner which further showcased the media and Hollywood descending into a tiny echo chamber.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 01, 2017, 11:18:16 AM
I see that President Candidate Trump spoke at the weekend to the 46% of all Americans that voted for him touting his non-accomplishments and his disdain of the enemy; not Iran or North Korea but the US media.

As opposed to the White House Correspondent's Dinner which further showcased the media and Hollywood descending into a tiny echo chamber.

Not as tiny as Trump's hands. Did you even watch it? The media got ribbed on.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 01, 2017, 01:10:35 PM
Looking at the latest congressional spending compromise that appears to be heading for approval, it’s hard to see any real “Trump” impact….  In fact, it looks like congressional business as usual….  Congressional Democrats and Republicans never seem to have any problems compromising when it comes to spending money and taking care of their special interests….

Quote
What's in and what's out in the latest government spending bill

By Ted Barrett, CNN
Updated 0410 GMT (1210 HKT) May 1, 2017
     
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/01/politics/government-spending-bill-details/

  (CNN) Negotiators reached a critical agreement Sunday night on a large spending bill that if approved this week would fund the government for months, senior aides from both parties told CNN.

As of Sunday night, Democratic and Republican aides disagreed about some of the figures that were initially put out as word of the deal broke.

Below is what aides to both parties agreed is included in the bill, when asked by CNN:
     
 •   $1.5 billion for border security -- technology and repairing existing infrastructure with language saying no new border wall construction
•   No money for deportation force or federal cuts to sanctuary cities
•   Billions in new defense spending, including the global war on terrorism
   No funding cut for Planned Parenthood
•   National Institute of Health funding increase of $2 billion
•   Increase clean energy and science funding
•   Energy Efficiency And Renewable Energy is up $17 million over Fiscal Year 2016
•   Department of Energy Office of Science is up $42 million over Fiscal Year 2016
•   Provide permanent fix for miners health insurance
•   $295 million for Puerto Rico Medicaid
•   Disaster package including funding for California, West Virginia, Louisiana and North Carolina, increased funding for transit infrastructure grants and opioid epidemic
•   Restored year round Pell Grants
     
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on May 01, 2017, 07:32:35 PM
Did you even watch it?

I heard some terrorist delivered some hate speech?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 02, 2017, 12:53:08 AM

Lavrov Dismantles UK-Led Sarin 'Investigation' in 30 Seconds

Lavrov blows the whistle on the OPCW and its 'investigations' in Syria

April 25th

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has a simple message for the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons: Stop with the bullshit.

Speaking with journalists in Moscow on Monday, Lavrov pointed out that the OPCW has taken more than four months to 'analyze' chemical samples from Aleppo, which would likely implicate Syrian 'opposition' forces in war crimes. And surprise, surprise — the OPCW needs even more time before it can release a report.

Meanwhile, it took this prestigious organization only four days to declare that Sarin was used in the April 4 attack in Khan Sheikhun.

Lavrov is not amused:


Four months ago, together with our Syrian colleagues, we sent samples that we got from Aleppo, after it was liberated. We believe these samples are evidence of the fact that opposition armed groups used chemical weapons.

Four months later — no results. And they say they need more time.

But this other unit, that processes complaints about the Syrian regime, as we were told, released a statement several days after the Idlib incident. And that statement confirms the initial allegations, allegations by NGOs and the White Helmets, that it was Sarin. So in one case we have 4 months — nothing happens, no information is released. But in the other case the other unit issues that statement in just 4 days. But there’s no data — what laboratory was used, what were the samples like, where were they taken?

How can this be? Lavrov knows:


The mission should provide for geographical diversity. As I said, this mechanism is comprised of two units, one receives applications and complains from the Syrian government, and the other processes complaints about the Syrian government.

And both of the units are chaired by UK citizens.

Lavrov then delivers the final blow:

Jokes aside, it’s an attempt to create a distorted perspective, and then to use this distorted reality to in an attempt to avoid an inclusive dialogue and switch to regime change operations. Another regime change operation in this region.





 


Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 02, 2017, 05:54:40 AM
Next time include the fake news / pro-Kremlin link in your copy and paste.

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/lavrov-dismantles-uk-led-sarin-investigation-30-seconds/ri19679

I'm gonna go with the 'mainstream media'.

France: Analysis shows Syrian government behind sarin attack
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/04/france_analysis_shows_syrian_g.html

Hmmm. Who should I believe- the French foreign minister or the Russian foreign minister?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 02, 2017, 12:12:39 PM
Not as tiny as Trump's hands. Did you even watch it? The media got ribbed on.

Hand joke. That's original and hasn't been played out.

The media got tweaked by its own. They called Steve Bannon a Nazi and asserted that Jeff Sessions was some guy who sat around dropping N-Bombs the whole time. False equivalence.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 02, 2017, 12:13:21 PM
I'm gonna go with the 'mainstream media'.

Even though it has been proven to consistently lie to you?

Even though there is no motive for Assad to have done so?

And the US government and affiliates had every motive to do so.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 02, 2017, 12:17:18 PM
Next time include the fake news / pro-Kremlin link in your copy and paste.

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/lavrov-dismantles-uk-led-sarin-investigation-30-seconds/ri19679

I'm gonna go with the 'mainstream media'.

France: Analysis shows Syrian government behind sarin attack
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/04/france_analysis_shows_syrian_g.html

Hmmm. Who should I believe- the French foreign minister or the Russian foreign minister?

Life Improvement, for someone who claims to be rational, you do realize that you are dismissing things based on who is saying them, in particular their nationality, and not on the merits of what they are saying? Shouldn't you be pointing out inconsistencies in Lavrov's claim and debunking that, not simply that this was published in the RT?

After all the issue is what Lavrov said, not what the RT reported.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 02, 2017, 12:24:17 PM
Next time include the fake news / pro-Kremlin link in your copy and paste.

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/lavrov-dismantles-uk-led-sarin-investigation-30-seconds/ri19679

I'm gonna go with the 'mainstream media'.

France: Analysis shows Syrian government behind sarin attack
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/04/france_analysis_shows_syrian_g.html

Hmmm. Who should I believe- the French foreign minister or the Russian foreign minister?

Life Improvement, for someone who claims to be rational, you do realize that you are dismissing things based on who is saying them, in particular their nationality, and not on the merits of what they are saying? Shouldn't you be pointing out inconsistencies in Lavrov's claim and debunking that, not simply that this was published in the RT?

After all the issue is what Lavrov said, not what the RT reported.

What Lavrov says and what the RT reports is from the same mouthpiece. One corroborates the other.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 02, 2017, 12:25:56 PM
Not as tiny as Trump's hands. Did you even watch it? The media got ribbed on.

Hand joke. That's original and hasn't been played out.

The media got tweaked by its own. They called Steve Bannon a Nazi and asserted that Jeff Sessions was some guy who sat around dropping N-Bombs the whole time. False equivalence.

I bet you just watched it in silence the entire time. The jokes just flying over your head.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 02, 2017, 12:43:20 PM
What Lavrov says and what the RT reports is from the same mouthpiece. One corroborates the other.

'French news', 'oregon live' and the 'mainstream media" are all from the same mouthpiece.

Western media is all owned and commanded from the same source: it is all a propaganda ministry for Washington.

Where is the motive? For Assad
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 02, 2017, 02:49:18 PM
What it all comes down to in Washington D.C. is money.  Control the money and you control the power.  In my opinion, the current “budget” encounter with congress is the foremost test of Trump’s leadership to date.  Further, that the “tone” he sets now will influence everything else to come.  Basically, that how he leads on spending issues will also determine if congress has some “fear” of him.  I believe that to be an effective president requires that congress has some fear of you. 

IMHO, this budget deal reveals that Trump did not perform as advertised; in that he did not lead congress on this spending bill.  Remember that the Senate and the House are controlled by Republicans..... This "deal" also clearly shows that “establishment” Republicans, Democrats and bureaucrats are reinstating their firm control, and even bragging about it (see NYT below).

Unfortunately, it is starting look like the W. Bush/Obama way of doing things will continue – i.e. business as usual in Washington….

Quote
1.  Why Congress’s Bipartisan Budget Deal Should Make Trump Worried 

The New York Times
By CARL HULSE2 hrs ago

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-congress%e2%80%99s-bipartisan-budget-deal-should-make-trump-worried/ar-BBABzHF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=LENDHP

WASHINGTON — By cutting a bipartisan spending compromise among themselves, Republicans and Democrats in Congress not only prevented the White House from delivering on President Trump’s priorities in his very first budget, they also drafted a handy blueprint for circumventing the Trump administration in the future.
It was an outcome that should worry the new president even though Mr. Trump will be spared the humiliation of a government shutdown early in his tenure if he signs the legislation.....

“We were sort of a united front, Republicans and Democrats, opposed to Trump,” said Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, in an interview.


2.  Trump Says He’ll Sign Congress Spending Deal That Jettisons His Goals

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-01/congress-strikes-tentative-deal-on-1-1-trillion-spending-bill

by Billy House ‎May‎ ‎01‎, ‎2017‎ ‎8‎:‎49‎ ‎AM ‎May‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎50‎ ‎AM

Overall, the compromise resembles more of an Obama administration-era spending bill than a Trump one……. 


3.  Democrats confident they can block Trump’s agenda after spending-bill win

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/after-their-spending-bill-win-democrats-confident-they-can-block-trumps-agenda/2017/05/01/5be2915e-2e97-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.e7420b2fd721

By Kelsey Snell and John Wagner By Kelsey Snell and John Wagner May 1 at 8:15 PM
 
Democrats believe they have set the stage to block President Trump’s legislative priorities for years to come by winning major concessions in a spending bill to keep the government open…..

Democrats’ lopsided victory on the five-month deal, which is likely to be approved this week, means it will be very difficult — if not impossible — for the GOP to exert its will in future budget negotiations, including when it comes to Trump’s 2018 budget blueprint…..

In addition to the $5 billion in domestic spending, the bipartisan agreement released early Monday morning is packed with Democratic priorities….
       
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 02, 2017, 08:56:20 PM
Trump has been completely emasculated.

The military-industrial complex rules: an out-of-control monster whose only interest is increasing its own power and profits.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 02, 2017, 09:20:16 PM
They've got France, they've got Canada, they've got South Korea... the only independent sovereign states standing up to globalism are the nice guys running Russia, Syria, China, Iran, and North Korea. :-[
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 02, 2017, 10:11:50 PM
They've got France, they've got Canada, they've got South Korea... the only independent sovereign states standing up to globalism are the nice guys running Russia, Syria, China, Iran, and North Korea.

That's the closest thing to truth you've written in a year.

Quote from: Eastreef
What it all comes down to in Washington D.C. is money.  Control the money and you control the power.
This "deal" also clearly shows that “establishment” Republicans, Democrats and bureaucrats are reinstating their firm control

President Eisenhower warned of the rise of the military-industrial complex back in 1961.

Quote
Before and during the Second World War, American industries had successfully converted to defense production as the crisis demanded, but out of the war, what Eisenhower called a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions emerged. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience Eisenhower warned, [while] we recognize the imperative need for this development.. we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications.. we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence…The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. Eisenhower cautioned that the federal government’s collaboration with an alliance of military and industrial leaders, though necessary, was vulnerable to abuse of power. Ike then counseled American citizens to be vigilant in monitoring the military-industrial complex. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/eisenhower-warns-of-military-industrial-complex (http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/eisenhower-warns-of-military-industrial-complex)


Imagine how much more entrenched they are now 60 years later!

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 03, 2017, 09:00:23 AM
What Lavrov says and what the RT reports is from the same mouthpiece. One corroborates the other.

So when Reuters reports that Lavrov denies Russian hacking, are they a Russian mouthpiece?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-cyber-lavrov-idUSKBN15X0DR

By your logic, the NYTimes or the Guardian or AlJazeera or the Stockton Times-Picayune could have carried Lavrov's remarks and they would be mouthpieces as well.

You don't judge things (totally) by the source. You judge it based on the content. That requires critical thinking.

CNN is not right and truthful 100% of the time. The RT is not wrong and lying 100% of the time. CNN may frequently be more right and truthful, but especially when it comes to foreign affairs, it should not be given implicit trust.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 09:17:34 AM
Sergey Lavrov is the Sean Spicer of Russia. Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. Of course he's going to say that. Reuters simply reported that he claimed that (without any additional commentary).
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 10:25:37 AM
Incidentally, Trump's spin doctors are making bank. Millions. Look at Kellyanne Conway's house:

(http://c1.vgtstatic.com/thumb/2/0/207616-v1-xl/kellyanne-conways-house.jpg)

...and...

https://therealdeal.com/2017/04/30/kellyanne-conway-just-bought-an-alternative-house/

She has $39.3 million in assets. 

Sean Spicer is worth $9 million.

Steve Bannon made two million last year.

People working for Trump are getting fat stacks of cash.

So are incidental Trump supporters fake news writers (via ad revenue from their clickbait websites).
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on May 03, 2017, 10:38:47 AM
^ Anybody who is any good at anything, and understands investing, should be worth $6M by the time they are old. If not they don't know what they are doing and shouldn't be in charge of anything.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 11:13:42 AM
What's your net worth, Ptolemy? C'mon, this message board is anonymous; you can tell us. How many millions?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 11:27:31 AM
Most Americans aren't millionaires.

The United States has approximately 13,554,000 millionaires- roughly 4% of the total U.S. population.

Four percent is not a lot. One in twenty-five.

It takes a lot of ambition, hard work, intelligence, and sometimes even luck.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 03, 2017, 11:33:03 AM
Incidentally, Trump's spin doctors are making bank. Millions. Look at Kellyanne Conway's house:


...and...

https://therealdeal.com/2017/04/30/kellyanne-conway-just-bought-an-alternative-house/

She has $39.3 million in assets. 

Sean Spicer is worth $9 million.

Steve Bannon made two million last year.

People working for Trump are getting fat stacks of cash.

So are incidental Trump supporters fake news writers (via ad revenue from their clickbait websites).

Looks like they have done pretty good at only a little over three months into the presidency.  I wonder how “poor” they were before the election?

If you want to start playing the “who has more money game,” rich Democrats or rich Republicans, you do realize I can start posting pictures of George Clooney’s HOUSES:
 
star already owns properties in Los Angeles, Mexico, and near Lake Como in Italy, and is planning to move into his new marital home in England with wife Amal later this year once renovations are complete.
However, George has his eye on a clifftop villa in the seaside town of Castiglione della Pescaia, an area recommended to the actor by his chef pal Federico Salza, and he has reportedly made a bid on the house.
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/08/george-clooney-buying-tuscany-vacation-home-report

I wonder what George Soros owns?

Or, how is it that the Clintons, who basically have sparse time working in the private sector, now have a total net worth over US 100 million dollars (politics pays...).  You can see Hillary’s net worth below in comparison’s to others.

Here is a link to the house that the Obamas have leased in D.C.  In 2014, the house sold for over US 5 million dollars - not bad for a community organizer…..  I guess if you get $400,000 from Wall Street for one speech, they will eventually add up…..

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/25/politics/obama-kalorama-washington-dc-leases-house/index.html

As I have said before, Washington is all about money and it doesn’t matter which party you label yourself… Lastly, if you work hard and "honestly" there is nothing wrong with making money....

Quote
Some of Obama’s staff net worth:
Former Chief of Staffs:  Bill Daley ‘s average net worth was an estimated $28.7 million, Daley’s predecessor, Rahm Emanuel, had an average worth of about $11.4 million in 2010.

Former Secretary of State John Kerry’s net worth: $194 million dollarsWould you like to see pictures of his houses?

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/12/president-barack-obama-wealth/

https://www.bing.com/search?q=john+kerry%27s+net+worth&form=PRUSEN&pc=EUPP_&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=1107100766ad403eb2cadbeb36a9ebd3&sp=-1&pq=john+kerry%27s+net+worth&sc=8-22&qs=n&sk=&cvid=1107100766ad403eb2cadbeb36a9ebd3

Hillary Clinton Net Worth
TOM GERENCERNOV 1, 2016

HTTP://MONEYNATION.COM/HILLARY-CLINTON-NET-WORTH/

The Hillary Clinton net worth total of $31.3 million comes from analyzing her Public Financial Disclosure Reports. Bill Clinton has an estimated net worth of $80 million. That gives a combined Bill and Hillary Clinton net worth of $111 million dollars.

U.S. presidential candidates aren’t required to reveal their exact net worth, so Hillary Clinton’s is only available within a range. Clinton has reported net worth assets of at least $10,830,007 and at most $51.7 million. Mrs. Clinton did not report any real estate or debts. If the Clintons do own property or debts, it’s all in Bill Clinton’s name. Placing assets and liabilities in Bill’s name would mean they wouldn’t be reported as part of Hillary Clinton’s net worth.

Figuring Mrs. Clinton’s minimum and maximum assets gives an average Hillary Clinton net worth of $31,265,004.

Hillary Clinton Net Worth Facts
•   Hillary Clinton net worth: $31.3 million (average)
•   Hillary Clinton minimum possible net worth: $10.8 million.
•   Hillary Clinton maximum possible net worth: $51.7 million.
•   Lowest Hillary Clinton net worth figure ever: Negative $8,000,000 in 2001.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs Bernie Sanders net worth: 59 times larger.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs Jeb Bush net worth: 1.5 times larger.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs Ben Carson net worth: About the same.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs Carly Fiorina net worth: about half.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs Bill Clinton net worth: 2.6 times smaller.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs median U.S. household net worth: 459 times larger.
•   Hillary Clinton net worth vs Bill Gates net worth: 2,580 times smaller.


           
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 11:43:51 AM
Hillary Clinton reported receiving an $8 million advance for her memoir, Living History. The contract was signed the day before she took her oath as a U.S. senator. Bill was already collecting a $10 million advance for My Life, and when Hillary stepped down as secretary of state, she got an advance of $14 million for Hard Choices.

Write books people want to read (buy) and you can get millions.

Speeches are similar to books in a way, but with live appearance talking.

And if you are smart and knowledgeable you can get compensation for consulting.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: maximmm on May 03, 2017, 11:47:40 AM
Stop feeding the troll, people.

Instead, have a lovely holiday. 

 8)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 11:47:56 AM
Lastly, if you work hard and "honestly" there is nothing wrong with making money....

You think "honest" is the best word to describe Sean Spicer and Kellyanne Conway? Their job is simply to disseminate truth?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 11:49:13 AM
21% of Americans will earn over $100,000 a year within their lifetime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2520834/One-Americans-earn-100-000-year-point-lifetime.html

So how about the readers and posters of this thread? More than 21%?...Or less?... Cast your vote below.  :blank:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on May 03, 2017, 11:51:31 AM
Most Americans aren't millionaires.

Irrelevant, the thread is about influential people in government.

It takes a lot of ambition, hard work, intelligence, and sometimes even luck.

Then you just argued for why everyone in the USG should have millions— otherwise you want unambitious, lazy, dumb, unlucky leading the country. But in reality it only takes basic math skills and a small amount of discipline.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 12:03:58 PM
I thought Kellyanne Conway's / Sean Spicer's role was spin for Trump / be an apologist for him, not run the government via actual policy creation...

...but with this new administration, who knows... Lines have been blurred.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 12:07:26 PM
Most Americans aren't millionaires.
Irrelevant, the thread is about influential people in government.

I was responding to this:

^ Anybody who is any good at anything, and understands investing, should be worth $6M by the time they are old.

Are you going to tell us how many millions you have, old man Ptolemy?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 12:10:57 PM
But in reality it only takes basic math skills and a small amount of discipline.

Do you mean to get into a position of power in the U.S. federal government?.... or to become a millionaire?

I'm guessing you mean to become a millionaire, but both are not easy to achieve. Both will remain elusive for most of the population.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on May 03, 2017, 12:15:41 PM
^ You are babbling again, ADHD. Wife finally has makeup on, so now I go bye bye!  :azn:
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 12:30:49 PM
In other words, you're dodging the question. Taking a page out of the ol' Sean Spicer playbook I see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL0ycPb_t1w
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
Here is a link to the house that the Obamas have leased in D.C.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/3/2/14779892/barack-michelle-obama-65-million-book-deal-penguin-random-house

Yeah, the Obamas are super rich. Book publishers paid them $65 million in hopes of making a profit (which will most likely happen). That's capitalism. If you have something insightful and interesting to say, the public will pay you money. If you're a good actor (George Clooney) they will buy tickets to your movies. Nothing wrong with that.

But getting paid (loads of dough) to spin or propagate falsehoods doesn't sit well with me.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 03, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Here is a link to the house that the Obamas have leased in D.C.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/3/2/14779892/barack-michelle-obama-65-million-book-deal-penguin-random-house

Yeah, the Obamas are super rich. Book publishers paid them $65 million in hopes of making a profit (which will most likely happen). That's capitalism. If you have something insightful and interesting to say, the public will pay you money. If you're a good actor (George Clooney) they will buy tickets to your movies. Nothing wrong with that.

But getting paid (loads of dough) to spin or propagate falsehoods doesn't sit well with me.

Ah yes, the good old elitist creed: do as I say and not as I do.

If you talk “elitist” you can make all the money you want, and that is just the American way.  However, if you don’t talk elitist and make money, then you are an un-American, money hungry, blood thirsty, deplorable person who would steal the social security check from a 92 year old woman….. 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 07:12:40 PM
What do you mean by elite? The intellectual elite? The cream of the crop in terms of education, intelligence, and dedication towards helping others? That's who should be running the country. Not demagogues. Not con men. Not ignoramuses. Not liars.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 03, 2017, 07:19:45 PM
Ah yes, the good old elitist creed: do as I say and not as I do.

Obama donated an enormous amount of money to charities. (So did the Clintons.) Trump did not. He only pretended to then made some small token donations (often with other people's money) when called out on false claims. This is almost certainly the reason he won't release his tax returns.

Obama worked hard to raise taxes on the upper 1% (himself). Trump worked hard to lower taxes on the upper 1% (himself)...which is not a smart or ethical thing to do considering the U.S. has so much debt.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: KimDuHan on May 03, 2017, 09:46:27 PM
TRUmp won't be impeached time for democrats to focus on the senate elections and the next presidential candidate
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 03, 2017, 11:01:28 PM
People working for Trump are getting fat stacks of cash. So are incidental Trump supporters fake news writers (via ad revenue from their clickbait websites).

... because the mainstream media has been so biased that the overwhelming majority of Americans have seen through them.
That's why they're turning to alternative sources for their news.

You see most people are able to distinguish BS on some level.

Except for you it appears?

Quote

Gallup Poll: Trust Level of Mainstream Media Falls to 32%


America’s trust and confidence in mainstream media stood at its highest level back in 1976 at 72%. Of course, that was due to the investigative journalism regarding Vietnam, and naturally Woodward and Berstein, with the Watergate scandal. Following that period, the media began to attack the right with Reagan. By the late 1990s, the Americans’ trust in the media fell steadily into the low to mid 50% level.

Following 2005, the trust in mainstream media dropped into the mid 40% range. It has consistently been below a majority level ever since the 2007 economic decline. However, after the 2016 election and the extreme bias for Hillary, where virtually 99% of mainstream media deliberately tried to manipulate the people to vote for Hillary, the trust factor has collapsed to 32%.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/gallup-poll-mainstream-media-falls-to-32-trust-level-2019-is-their-demise/ (https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/gallup-poll-mainstream-media-falls-to-32-trust-level-2019-is-their-demise/)


You're already in the bottom 32% of the population.


...and its only going to get more lonely for you, lifeimprovement.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 04, 2017, 04:37:00 AM
MSM is Fox News. MSM is NPR. MSM is a lot of (different) things which can be defined a lot of different ways.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 04, 2017, 08:03:26 AM
Aurata speaks of media bias but sources Russia Today to prove his points. Oh, the hyporcricy! hahah
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 04, 2017, 10:19:10 AM
Here is a link to the house that the Obamas have leased in D.C.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/3/2/14779892/barack-michelle-obama-65-million-book-deal-penguin-random-house

Yeah, the Obamas are super rich. Book publishers paid them $65 million in hopes of making a profit (which will most likely happen). That's capitalism. If you have something insightful and interesting to say, the public will pay you money. If you're a good actor (George Clooney) they will buy tickets to your movies. Nothing wrong with that.

But getting paid (loads of dough) to spin or propagate falsehoods doesn't sit well with me.

Ah yes, the good old elitist creed: do as I say and not as I do.

If you talk “elitist” you can make all the money you want, and that is just the American way.  However, if you don’t talk elitist and make money, then you are an un-American, money hungry, blood thirsty, deplorable person who would steal the social security check from a 92 year old woman…..

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/208/187/322.png)
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 04, 2017, 10:43:41 AM
It’s hard to think of a worse example of the “swamp” that needs draining than a president hiring his unqualified, inexperienced 30-something daughter and son-in-law with a myriad of conflicts (some involving foreign countries) who refuse to fully divest while given broad, undefined duties ranging over the entire government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/05/02/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-arent-helping-to-drain-the-swamp

Taking a step back, the entire situation is unsightly and inappropriate, creating the impression that the United States is ruled by a royal-ish family for whom the normal rules and norms do not apply. Congress could, of course, hold hearings and legislate on the matter, but until Republicans lose control of committees in the House and/or Senate, expect them to keep on ignoring the Trumps’ shenanigans.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 04, 2017, 10:56:29 AM
It’s hard to think of a worse example of the “swamp” that needs draining than a president hiring his unqualified, inexperienced 30-something daughter and son-in-law with a myriad of conflicts (some involving foreign countries) who refuse to fully divest while given broad, undefined duties ranging over the entire government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/05/02/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-arent-helping-to-drain-the-swamp

Taking a step back, the entire situation is unsightly and inappropriate, creating the impression that the United States is ruled by a royal-ish family for whom the normal rules and norms do not apply. Congress could, of course, hold hearings and legislate on the matter, but until Republicans lose control of committees in the House and/or Senate, expect them to keep on ignoring the Trumps’ shenanigans.

It's only nepotism if they are given a department to run. Simply having a relative as an adviser does not strike me as unethical. In fact, it is probably a good thing.

If Ivanka or Kushner were in charge of a federal agency or some other position it would be. But as a simple adviser, that's fine.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 04, 2017, 11:09:13 AM
(http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/ae2b9b5b65182588aae95e7c083234f8)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/18/18/3A81CF9100000578-3949512-Front_and_center_Photos_from_President_elect_Donald_Trump_s_meet-m-1_1479493127280.jpg)

It's a really minor role? Not sure.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Aurata on May 04, 2017, 06:31:09 PM
Aurata speaks of media bias but sources Russia Today to prove his points.

Its not about which messenger bears the news.

Its about the evidence itself.


If someone is interviewed by both CNN and RT and says the same thing each time, does that mean they were wrong when RT broadcast it?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 04, 2017, 09:09:19 PM
Aurata speaks of media bias but sources Russia Today to prove his points.

Its not about which messenger bears the news.

Its about the evidence itself.


If someone is interviewed by both CNN and RT and says the same thing each time, does that mean they were wrong when RT broadcast it?

If Kellyanne Conway gave an interview to both CNN and RT saying that Trump is bigger than Jesus then, yes, she would still be nuts.

If Sean Spicer reiterated Trump's claim to both CNN and RT that he [Trump] has accomplished more in his first 100 days than any previous President then, yes, he would still be nuts.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 05, 2017, 12:32:27 AM
It's a really minor role? Not sure.

I didn't say minor, I said advisory.

Besides wasn't Hillary being First Lady part of her "qualifications". Wasn't in Nepotism when New York cleared out the Senate vacancy and any competition for her?

Not that I think this is nepotism. I think its putting someone in place to give advice, not to run an agency. For goodness sakes, if Trump thinks Ivanka is one of the best people in the U.S. to give him advice, let her give him advice.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on May 06, 2017, 12:22:31 PM
Thanks for posting the full episode. I usually have to torrent or get an abridged version.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 06, 2017, 12:53:00 PM
Aurata speaks of media bias but sources Russia Today to prove his points.

Its not about which messenger bears the news.

Its about the evidence itself.


If someone is interviewed by both CNN and RT and says the same thing each time, does that mean they were wrong when RT broadcast it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQkXv08uL5c
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on May 08, 2017, 08:49:52 AM
MSM is Fox News. MSM is NPR. MSM is a lot of (different) things which can be defined a lot of different ways.

You always wuss out. Trust in mass media is at an all time low, by far most Americans do NOT trust it, and that Gallop poll was done before the election. Heck even my liberal friends now mostly admit it is lies, the Trump thing woke people up that MSM is basically North Korea propaganda, with a bigger budget.

And yet you always post on here quoting MSM as "proof". WTF dude? You are way out there in radical-leftist fantasy land. Corporate propaganda is not proof of anything.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: thunderlips on May 08, 2017, 12:05:06 PM
MSM is Fox News. MSM is NPR. MSM is a lot of (different) things which can be defined a lot of different ways.

You always wuss out. Trust in mass media is at an all time low, by far most Americans do NOT trust it, and that Gallop poll was done before the election. Heck even my liberal friends now mostly admit it is lies, the Trump thing woke people up that MSM is basically North Korea propaganda, with a bigger budget.

And yet you always post on here quoting MSM as "proof". WTF dude? You are way out there in radical-leftist fantasy land. Corporate propaganda is not proof of anything.

I am going to have to agree with Ptolemy on this. MSN/CNN/Fox/NBC et all have an agenda and report on their news accordingly. Look at the stories they blatantly ignore while the hours wasted on trivial BS.

I'll post this again, but it is just as relevant now:
https://www.thenation.com/article/venezuelas-media-coup/ 

As long as Trump plays nice with the real leaders, he is safe from any legal recourse. Much to the chagrin of this guy.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 09, 2017, 09:59:33 AM
For those that are into polls, Nate Cohn is considered among the “gold” standard for analyzing data, and the NYT article linked below is his.  Interesting read….  And, IMHO, in order to keep his “reputation” intack, he knows he has to report the actual data, but he also seems to use a lot of “legalese” sounding language in the article to try and not upset his political “compadres”…..

As long as Clinton and other Democrats stay in denial about why they loss to Trump, they will have a difficult time winning the presidency in 2020.

Quote
Some excerpts.  See the link for the complete article.

A 2016 Review: There’s Reason to Be Skeptical of a Comey Effect

Nate Cohn @Nate_Cohn MAY 8, 2017

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/upshot/a-2016-review-theres-reason-to-be-skeptical-of-a-comey-effect.html?_r=0

On Friday, Oct. 28, James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, sent a letter to Congress about new evidence in the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails. Politicians, analysts and journalists are still debating whether the letter cost Mrs. Clinton the presidency. It’s certainly possible. But I am not at all sure,……….

Most important, the polls taken before the letter were as bad for Mrs. Clinton as those conducted after it. Again, there aren’t many of these polls, but taken at face value there’s a case that Mrs. Clinton had nearly or even completely bottomed out by the time the Comey letter was released. Even if she had not, the trend line heading into the Comey letter was bad enough that there’s no need to assume that the Comey letter was necessary for any additional erosion in her lead…….

In retrospect, there is virtually no evidence to support the view that Mrs. Clinton really had a six-point lead by Oct. 28, even if it was a very reasonable interpretation of the polls that had been released to that point. She didn’t have a six-point lead in any of the 16 (sometimes low-quality) national surveys that went into the field on or after Oct. 23 and were completed before the Comey letter, including her steadily shrinking lead in the ABC/Washington Post tracker.  A new report from the American Association of Public Opinion Research on 2016 polling reached a similar conclusion……

This doesn’t mean that Mr. Comey didn’t or couldn’t have played a pivotal role. The fairly sparse polling makes it hard to be sure of just how much Mrs. Clinton’s standing fell before the Comey letter. Maybe our Florida poll was a dud after all. Mr. Trump won the state by only a point, although many of the trends evident in our poll — like lower black turnout, a less-than-record-setting showing by Mrs. Clinton among Hispanic voters, and Mr. Trump’s surge among Republican and white working-class voters — held true on election night.

It’s hard to rule out the possibility that Mr. Comey was decisive in such a close election. Mr. Trump won Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by less than a percentage point. Even if there were no evidence to support a shift after Mr. Comey’s letter, there would still be reason to wonder whether his actions were decisive. The story dominated the news for much of the week before the election. One could imagine how Mr. Comey’s letter might have swayed voters who remained undecided heading into Election Day.

But in such a close election, anything and everything could have plausibly been decisive.

                   
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 12, 2017, 09:52:09 AM
For those dreaming/wishing/praying/fantasizing for impeachment, today may be the defining moment.  President Trump on a TV interview with Lester Holt of NBC “news” - NBC is not exactly a Trump friendly “news” organization – Trump said the following:

Quote
"There's no collusion between me and my campaign and the Russians," Trump said in an interview with NBC News anchor Lester Holt.
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-collusion-lester-holt-interview-nbc-news-2017-5           

Remember Bill Clinton saying on TV that he never had sexual relations………The Republicans used Clinton’s statement against him for the impeachment process. 

Therefore, if Trump is as “dumb” as many of you think, when all the documentation of the Trump campaign colluding with the “Russians” comes out, there will be grounds for impeachment. 

Of course this means that Trump knowingly made this “false” statement being fully aware that he did collude with the “Russians.”   

I would think that Susan Rice must be running to the telephone to call the Senate and accept their request for her to testify about the “Russian” investigation, as she was involved in it.  Today, she could document the collusion and then the Democrats could really start screaming for impeachment. Or, the people loyal to Comey will start leaking collusion documentation to get back at Trump for firing Comey.  Or, maybe the Russians will leak it to throw the U.S. into a political crisis.  Of course this all assumes that such collusion took place. 

The "objective" Washington Post already assumes that Trump just lied (I’m shocked) as they are saying “No good lawyer would have let Trump give Lester Holt this interview….”   

Of course if no such collusion evidence is produced I fully expect the Washington Post and the other elitists to apologize (lol)….

Quote
No good lawyer would have let Trump give Lester Holt this interview

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/05/11/no-good-lawyer-would-have-let-trump-give-lester-holt-this-interview/?utm_term=.6902058ee30c

President Trump’s interview with Lester Holt was so politically and legally problematic, one must assume no one with a year of law school under his belt would have recommended Trump do it. As The Post summarizes…
                 
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 12, 2017, 10:02:51 AM
Trump wasn't under oath when he was interviewing Lester Holt.

As far as legal stuff, he can simply say that that was his belief at the time, given the information he had. If it comes out someone did have a connection, he can simply say he was unaware they did.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 12, 2017, 12:42:54 PM
Trump wasn't under oath when he was interviewing Lester Holt.

As far as legal stuff, he can simply say that that was his belief at the time, given the information he had. If it comes out someone did have a connection, he can simply say he was unaware they did.

Politically, I don’t think that’s the position that the Democrats and the elitist media would take……
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 12, 2017, 01:31:23 PM
Trump wasn't under oath when he was interviewing Lester Holt.

As far as legal stuff, he can simply say that that was his belief at the time, given the information he had. If it comes out someone did have a connection, he can simply say he was unaware they did.

Politically, I don’t think that’s the position that the Democrats and the elitist media would take……

Politically, if it was Obama or a Hillary Clinton saying those same things then I think they [Republicans] would have convened at least a 10th congressional investigation by now - in the hope that someone can fabricate that smoking gun that's not there.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 13, 2017, 11:42:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_C5W8jUK5E
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 13, 2017, 12:19:15 PM
Trump wasn't under oath when he was interviewing Lester Holt.

As far as legal stuff, he can simply say that that was his belief at the time, given the information he had. If it comes out someone did have a connection, he can simply say he was unaware they did.

Politically, I don’t think that’s the position that the Democrats and the elitist media would take……

Politically, if it was Obama or a Hillary Clinton saying those same things then I think they [Republicans] would have convened at least a 10th congressional investigation by now - in the hope that someone can fabricate that smoking gun that's not there.

Reminder that this is the end result of the GOP response to Islamic terrorists choosing of their own volition to attack a US embassy on the other side of the planet:

WASHINGTON — Ending one of the longest, costliest and most bitterly partisan congressional investigations in history, the House Select Committee on Benghazi issued its final report on Tuesday, finding no new evidence of culpability or wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton in the 2012 attacks in Libya that left four Americans dead.

But the lack of any clear finding of professional misconduct or dereliction of duty was certain to fuel further criticism of the length of the investigation — more than two years — and the expense, estimated at more than $7 million.


Imagine what these craven toolboxes would have done if Obama or Hillary lied about literally everything and obstructed every investigation into anything, the way Trump does. Trump even literally lied about the amount of rainfall on his inauguration.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: donovan on May 13, 2017, 02:21:02 PM
Donald Trump claims he invented 'priming the pump' phrase
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/11/donald-trump-claims-invented-priming-pump-phrase/
"I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good," Mr Trump told "The Economist" magazine in an interview published on Thursday.

Please stop twisting his words, Life Support. Getting tired of your endless spin to make Trump look like a moron. Everyone knows he *meant* that he was the first to use the phrase as a sexual metaphor.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 13, 2017, 03:10:17 PM
He was responding to an inquiry about his plan for tax cuts (the bulk of which would go to the upper 1%):

It’s OK if the tax plan increases the deficit?

It is OK, because it won’t increase it for long.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 13, 2017, 07:59:07 PM
Donald Trump claims he invented 'priming the pump' phrase
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/11/donald-trump-claims-invented-priming-pump-phrase/
"I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good," Mr Trump told "The Economist" magazine in an interview published on Thursday.

Please stop twisting his words, Life Support. Getting tired of your endless spin to make Trump look like a moron. Everyone knows he *meant* that he was the first to use the phrase as a sexual metaphor.

heh
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ivan on May 13, 2017, 08:35:31 PM
Of course "they" will try hard to impeach him, or kill him. He is against the new world order. Have you ever listened to "JFK's Secret Society Speech" that got him killed? Recommended.

https://youtu.be/wISEOOsEvI8
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: donovan on May 14, 2017, 02:47:23 PM
He was responding to an inquiry about his plan for tax cuts (the bulk of which would go to the upper 1%):

Still, not exactly an impeachable offense. In fact, as much as I despise the guy, this talk of impeachment may be pure fantasy (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/opinion/erick-erickson-the-fantasy-of-impeachment.html). Not that a smoking gun couldn't eventually turn up -- and the FBI will continue investigating the Russia issue -- but as long as the Republicans are at the wheel (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/opinion/donald-trump-does-not-surprise.html), barring a complete abandonment of Trump by his base, nothing is likely to come of it. And as much damage as he's doing to the country and the office he holds, I shudder to think what impeachment proceedings might do to the tenuous order that's holding the US together right now. It seems to me the best we could hope for is to contain him for the next two years (his ineptitude almost does that on its own), weaken him and his party in the mid-terms, and vanquish him in the next election.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Baby Aubergine on May 15, 2017, 10:28:21 AM
The establishment Democrat focus on Russia at the expense of everything else is astonishing. I can only imagine it's the same mix of incompetence & a poor attempt to mask how bad their own policies on stuff like healthcare mostly are.

Still, this is how you keep losing further still in 2018.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 15, 2017, 11:31:19 AM
The establishment Democrat focus on Russia at the expense of everything else is astonishing. I can only imagine it's the same mix of incompetence & a poor attempt to mask how bad their own policies on stuff like healthcare mostly are.

Still, this is how you keep losing further still in 2018.

Except, the progressive wing of the Democrats are continually hammering Trump on his failings of domestic policy: health care, tax reform, big pharma, lobbyists, rich/poor divide.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Baby Aubergine on May 15, 2017, 11:54:27 AM
The establishment Democrat focus on Russia at the expense of everything else is astonishing. I can only imagine it's the same mix of incompetence & a poor attempt to mask how bad their own policies on stuff like healthcare mostly are.

Still, this is how you keep losing further still in 2018.

Except, the progressive wing of the Democrats are continually hammering Trump on his failings of domestic policy: health care, tax reform, big pharma, lobbyists, rich/poor divide.

Yes, that's good. I was trying to distinguish them from those who are really focusing on Russia above all. Can't think of that many names just now but Devin Nunes is one that springs to mind, he just paid for a huge Russia billboard somewhere.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 15, 2017, 12:11:38 PM
The establishment Democrat focus on Russia at the expense of everything else is astonishing. I can only imagine it's the same mix of incompetence & a poor attempt to mask how bad their own policies on stuff like healthcare mostly are.

Still, this is how you keep losing further still in 2018.

Except, the progressive wing of the Democrats are continually hammering Trump on his failings of domestic policy: health care, tax reform, big pharma, lobbyists, rich/poor divide.

Yes, that's good. I was trying to distinguish them from those who are really focusing on Russia above all. Can't think of that many names just now but Devin Nunes is one that springs to mind, he just paid for a huge Russia billboard somewhere.

If you look at the recent special elections in the House, Democrats have faired much better than last time. The Republicans had to pump extra money into those races through various Super-PACs that wouldn't have been necessary before but a lot of people are seeing through Trump's election promises and are currently not happy with how Trump and Republicans are running the country.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: donovan on May 16, 2017, 02:23:34 PM
Trump Revealed Highly Classified Intelligence to Russia, in Break With Ally, Officials Say (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/trump-russia-classified-information-isis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news)

Quote
President Trump boasted about highly classified intelligence in a meeting with the Russian foreign minister and ambassador last week, providing details that could expose the source of the information and the manner in which it was collected, a current and a former American government official said Monday.

The intelligence disclosed by Mr. Trump in a meeting with Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, was about an Islamic State plot, according to the officials. A Middle Eastern ally that closely guards its own secrets provided the information, which was considered so sensitive that American officials did not share it widely within the United States government or pass it on to other allies.

Mr. Trump’s disclosure does not appear to have been illegal — the president has the power to declassify almost anything. But sharing the information without the express permission of the ally who provided it was a major breach of espionage etiquette, and could jeopardize a crucial intelligence-sharing relationship.

In fact, the ally has repeatedly warned American officials that it would cut off access to such sensitive information if it were shared too widely, the former official said. In this case, the fear is that Russia will be able to determine exactly how the information was collected and could disrupt the ally’s espionage efforts.

...

The revelation also opens Mr. Trump to criticism of a double standard. The president made Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of classified information through her private email server central to his campaign, leading chants of “lock her up” at rallies. But there was never any indication that Mrs. Clinton exposed sensitive information from an ally or gave it to an adversary.

idiot :blank:

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 16, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZK5WAMN.png)
Title: Tired of winning yet?
Post by: Adel on May 17, 2017, 04:39:43 AM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/05/16/02/402B1ED300000578-4508898-ALL_SMILES_Russia_s_Foreign_Minister_Sergei_Lavrov_US_President_-a-1_1494897660625.jpg)

Which of these three gentlemen appear to be laughing louder?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 17, 2017, 06:36:58 AM


Former FBI Director James Comey wrote in a memo that President Donald Trump asked him to end the investigation of national security adviser Michael Flynn, according to a sources familiar with the matter.

Comey was so appalled by the request that he wanted to document it, sources said. Comey shared it with FBI senior officials, according to sources.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/16/politics/trump-james-comey-memo/index.html
 
The memo is the clearest sign yet of potential interference by Trump with the investigation into whether members of his campaign team colluded with Russian officials.

"Three words: obstruction of justice," said CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin on Tuesday. "Telling the FBI director to close down an investigation of your senior campaign adviser for his activities during your campaign for president, if that's true, that is obstruction of justice."

" 'Close it down' is an instruction to stop investigating President Trump's campaign. Richard Nixon was impeached in 1974 for telling the FBI to stop an investigation of his campaign. That's what Watergate was," Toobin added. "If (Comey's) telling the truth, I don't know how anyone can see this comment as anything but obstruction of justice."

Title: Re: Tired of winning yet?
Post by: donovan on May 17, 2017, 07:43:11 AM
Which of these three gentlemen appear to be laughing louder?

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-11-2015/RJqFei.gif)
Title: Re: Tired of winning yet?
Post by: Adel on May 17, 2017, 07:55:44 AM
Which of these three gentlemen appear to be laughing louder?

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-11-2015/RJqFei.gif)

Dude, seriously.

Enough with trying to frame Dtrump as some kind of evil genius already!
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 17, 2017, 09:14:40 AM
Trump finally found the leaker of national security information. Turns out the leaker was looking back at him in the mirror all this time.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 17, 2017, 12:23:48 PM
National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster stood in front of the White House and on LIVE TV said to a worldwide audience:

“The story that came out tonight as reported is false.” ……  “I was in the room. It didn’t happen.”

National Security Advisor McMaster has said that the conversations with the Russians were wholly appropriate. 

The elitist media, without providing names, says that Trump was wrong.  Remember, the elitist media has made it very clear that they hate Trump.  Further, of the many stories I have read where the media is using “experts” to say that Trump was wrong, these “experts are basing their opinion on the anonymous sources of the Washington Post; a newspaper owned by Jeff Bezos….

Watch the videos versus anonymous sources…….

The real story, which the elitist media will not acknowledge, is that there is now no doubt that some of the media, along with what is called the “deep state,” are operating together to harm/oust the properly elected president of the United States. 

Since Trump’s election, in violation of law, the deep state has been routinely releasing to select media information that they have no authority to legally release to the public.  Is the FBI investigating these leaks?

With the current story the media is making a big deal about how the intelligence agencies of other countries won’t work with the U.S. if they think Trump will tell others about their information.  Well, how about this story?  How does the president of the U.S. conduct foreign policy if world leaders are afraid anything they say in a “private” conversation with the president of the United States will be made public, if the deep state believes such information can be used to harm Trump?  Who leaked the information regarding the Trump-Turnbull telephone conversation???? And, who published the information?  That we know, the Washington Post.

Now, I’m not sure if the deep state is just manipulating these media organizations or if they are actually coordinating actions together.  However, whether being manipulated or coordinated, many in the media have the same objective, and that is: U.S. presidential elections should just be a show.  Yes, you have two candidates, but only one candidate is supposed to win (sound familiar).  I wonder how the elitists will feel in the future if the deep state does not like a particular elitist president, should one be elected, and then the deep state again decides to flex its muscles….. 

When you have government workers believing that they should be the ones who decide who the president of the U.S. should be, the U.S. is heading down a very slippery slope…..

Finally, I will admit that Trump has helped provide ammunition to be used against him.  One of his first priorities should have been setting up a well-organized and disciplined West Wing.  He bragged about his management skills, but IMHO, he has not demonstrated such skills when it comes to the daily operation of his office. 

If he hired someone to do this – e.g. Chief of Staff - he should fire such person.  If he is personally responsible, then Trump needs suck it in and hire a person who can properly do this, and then let them do their job.
 
When Reagan needed help in his second term, he (I have read that Nancy actually had a lot to do with this) brought in Howard Baker to get things back on track. It worked.  In 1994, President Clinton became increasingly concerned about a lack of order and focus in the White House and asked Leon Panetta to become his new Chief of Staff.  It worked.

IMHO, Trump, like other presidents before him, needs to quickly make some adjustments if he wants to be a successful president. 

Quote
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/hr-mcmaster-trump-intelligence-sharing-appropriate-238450            contains embedded video

“What I will tell you is in the context of that discussion, what the president discussed with the foreign minister was wholly appropriate to that conversation and is consistent with the routine sharing of information between the president and any leaders with whom he's engaged,” McMaster said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39931012        contains embedded video

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/15/trump-classified-russia-pushback-238415
contains  embedded video

National security adviser H.R. McMaster briefly spoke to reporters gathered at the White House and issued a terse denial without taking any questions. “The story that came out tonight as reported is false,” McMaster said.

He concluded with, “I was in the room. It didn’t happen.”

The White House also issued statements from Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, deputy national security adviser for Strategy Dina Powell and McMaster that attempted to pour cold water on the report.
"This story is false. The president only discussed the common threats that both countries faced," Powell said in the statement.

Richard Perle: WashPost's Trump Story on Russia 'Outrageously Overblown'

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/richard-perle-russia-washington-post-donald-trump/2017/05/16/id/790522/

The Washington Post report on President Donald Trump disclosing classified information to Russian officials last week is "outrageously overblown" and proves that the media is "out to destroy this presidency,"……
•   
The Washington Post report on President Donald Trump disclosing classified information to Russian officials last week is "outrageously overblown" and proves that the media is "out to destroy this presidency," former Pentagon official Richard Perle told Newsmax TV on Tuesday.

"There was no indication in the article — and this is now confirmed by the national security adviser that any classified information that was not either known or obvious was revealed in that conversation," ….

"I was not at all concerned about that and I spent 50 years consuming and working on highly classified information.

"I don't think any significant information has been compromised."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-the-white-house-isn%e2%80%99t-denying-that-trump-gave-russia-classified-information-%e2%80%94-not-really/ar-BBBb2RF?ocid=LENDHP

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/mcmaster-truth-defense-secrets-238470

CBS/AP February 1, 2017, 11:17 PM
Report: Trump, Australian PM Turnbull have tense phone call over Muslim refugees

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-australian-pm-turnbull-have-tense-phone-call-over-muslim-refugees/


                 

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 17, 2017, 01:07:18 PM


Former FBI Director James Comey wrote in a memo that President Donald Trump asked him to end the investigation of national security adviser Michael Flynn, according to a sources familiar with the matter.

Comey was so appalled by the request that he wanted to document it, sources said. Comey shared it with FBI senior officials, according to sources.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/16/politics/trump-james-comey-memo/index.html
 
The memo is the clearest sign yet of potential interference by Trump with the investigation into whether members of his campaign team colluded with Russian officials.

"Three words: obstruction of justice," said CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin on Tuesday. "Telling the FBI director to close down an investigation of your senior campaign adviser for his activities during your campaign for president, if that's true, that is obstruction of justice."

" 'Close it down' is an instruction to stop investigating President Trump's campaign. Richard Nixon was impeached in 1974 for telling the FBI to stop an investigation of his campaign. That's what Watergate was," Toobin added. "If (Comey's) telling the truth, I don't know how anyone can see this comment as anything but obstruction of justice."

Would you please post a link to where I can read the entire Comey memo?  Before I comment I think it would be better if I first read the memo. 

For example, I already have a couple of questions. 

The following is a quote from the link that you did provide:

Quote
The sources said that Comey was so appalled by the request from Trump, at an Oval Office meeting on February 14, that he wanted to document it in order to share his recollections of the encounter with senior FBI officials.       

My first question is if Comey was so appalled by what happened on February 14, why did he wait until May 16 to apparently release part of the memo?

Another question is why didn’t Comey mention this “incident” when he testified before congress?  It’s not exactly like Comey has not had the attention of congress during these last few months.

If he had publically read his memo into the congressional record while testifying, that would most likely have given congress no choice but to investigate.    Further, I would think it would have also made it virtually politically impossible for him to be fired.

My final question, at this time, is that Comey did make it clear to Senators Feinstein and Grassley that Trump was not under FBI investigation; therefore, if Comey really believed that Trump was trying to obstruct justice, why didn’t Comey start an obstruction of justice investigation against Trump?

Or, as previously said on here, did Comey have his own agenda?

Isn’t this getting exciting?????  Unfortunately, I may have to reduce my Waygook time and really focus my writing time on a new textbook due next fall.  Posting on Waygook is entertaining, but it doesn’t pay for nice vacations.  Oh well, we will see.

Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: MayorHaggar on May 17, 2017, 04:05:55 PM
lol Eastreef is still playing defense for the orange...

Meanwhile actual Republicans are finally starting to realize it might not be a good idea to continue to defend Trump and make excuses for them...

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/trump-comey-republicans-congress-scandals-238479

Republicans are privately beginning to worry that they may one day have to sit in judgment of Trump, or that more damaging information from Comey could force the president to step down. Within hours of Tuesday's report by The New York Times, there was a distinct shift among congressional Republicans, who until now have mostly resisted criticizing Trump, let alone demanding the president be held to account for all he says or does.

House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) immediately said he’s prepared to subpoena the memos that Comey reportedly wrote contemporaneously to document his interactions with Trump. Chaffetz sent a letter to the FBI on Tuesday night asking for any notes, documents or records of Trump and Comey’s conversations to be turned over to his panel by May 24.


Ross Douthat, whose professional job title is "water-carrier for anything the GOP does"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/opinion/25th-amendment-trump.html?_r=0

The 25th Amendment Solution to Remove Trump

Even Literally Freaking David Brooks stops being a GOP-loving punk for once:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-classified-data.html

When the World Is Led by a Child



I'm sure Eastreef will claim this is all elitist globalist fake nooz and then post a bunch of conspiracy theory crap he saw on Fox News about Susan Rice and Benghazi and "but her emails."
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 17, 2017, 04:24:54 PM
Unfortunately, I may have to reduce my Waygook time and really focus my writing time on a new textbook due next fall.

'9/11 was an inside job!' the graded reader edition?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Mr.DeMartino on May 17, 2017, 04:41:27 PM
Nice job answering eastreef's questions guys.

Quote
My first question is if Comey was so appalled by what happened on February 14, why did he wait until May 16 to apparently release part of the memo?

Another question is why didn’t Comey mention this “incident” when he testified before congress?  It’s not exactly like Comey has not had the attention of congress during these last few months.

If he had publically read his memo into the congressional record while testifying, that would most likely have given congress no choice but to investigate.    Further, I would think it would have also made it virtually politically impossible for him to be fired.

My final question, at this time, is that Comey did make it clear to Senators Feinstein and Grassley that Trump was not under FBI investigation; therefore, if Comey really believed that Trump was trying to obstruct justice, why didn’t Comey start an obstruction of justice investigation against Trump?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Life Improvement on May 17, 2017, 04:51:06 PM
Upper level people collect all the information they can to make an airtight case before making an accusation.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Savant on May 17, 2017, 04:55:55 PM
Nice job answering eastreef's questions guys.

Quote
My first question is if Comey was so appalled by what happened on February 14, why did he wait until May 16 to apparently release part of the memo?

Another question is why didn’t Comey mention this “incident” when he testified before congress?  It’s not exactly like Comey has not had the attention of congress during these last few months.

If he had publically read his memo into the congressional record while testifying, that would most likely have given congress no choice but to investigate.    Further, I would think it would have also made it virtually politically impossible for him to be fired.

My final question, at this time, is that Comey did make it clear to Senators Feinstein and Grassley that Trump was not under FBI investigation; therefore, if Comey really believed that Trump was trying to obstruct justice, why didn’t Comey start an obstruction of justice investigation against Trump?

What? Answer his questions based on conjecture and false equivalencies?

Hopefully, all questions will be asked and answered in the forthcoming congressional open hearings.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 17, 2017, 08:12:36 PM
Maybe the Russians can save the U.S. from ourselves….

Quote
Russia claims to have transcript of Trump meeting with Lavrov

Updated 1158 GMT (1958 HKT) May 17, 2017

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/17/politics/russia-us-trump-lavrov-intel/index.html

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that Russia is ready to provide US Congress with a transcript of the talks between President Donald Trump and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

Speaking at a press conference, Putin said the transcript could be provided "if the US administration finds it appropriate."
                       
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 17, 2017, 08:16:15 PM
I’m still looking for a link so that I can read the memo.

Some excerpts.

Quote
  http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/alan-dershowitz-james-comey-memo-fbi/2017/05/16/id/790555/

Harvard Law School professor emeritus Alan Dershowitz said Tuesday that former FBI Director James Comey's memo on his February conversation with President Donald Trump "has to be seen" because "tone is everything."

"For a president – and tone is everything – that's why the memo has to be seen and that's why, if there are tapes, we should hear them," Dershowitz told Anderson Cooper on CNN.

"If the president politely suggests to the director of the FBI: 'He's a good guy, [Michael] Flynn. I would appreciate if you let him off the hook. I fired him.'
"That doesn't become" a case of obstruction of justice," he said.

               
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: Ptolemy on May 17, 2017, 08:19:37 PM
Comey was so appalled by the request that he wanted to document it, sources said. Comey shared it with FBI senior officials, according to sources.

Yeah right. Tabloid journalism.

Don't you have a job or something kid?
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: grey on May 17, 2017, 08:23:34 PM
You all have convinced me.

I would not bet against resignation/impeachment.
Title: Re: When will Trump be impeached?
Post by: eastreef on May 17, 2017, 08:37:46 PM
Upper level people collect all the information they can to make an airtight case before making an accusation.
Tell that to Hillary… He publically jumped right back into that investigation in late October 2016, just days before the election.   Not much I must first collect all the facts……before rekindling that investigation.  Further, Comey has shown that he is not afraid to battle Presidents, as he did with W. Bush over the NSA’s warrantless wiretap program and terrorist interrogation procedures.  He threatened to resign over the NSA program. 

Quote
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/US-Trump-Comey-Timeline/2017/05/16/id/790545/
A person who had seen the memo told The Associated Press what Comey had written. The person was not authorized to discuss the memo by name and spoke on condition of anonymity. The existence of the memo was first reported by The New York Times.
           

Further, on March 20, 2017, Comey testified before Congress regarding the investigation of possible links between Trump associates and Russian officials.  At this time why didn’t Comey mention the Trump “encounter” regarding Flynn?  Flynn was a Trump associate, and it was the U.S. surveillance of Flynn and his conversations with the “Russians,” which were illegally released to the Washington Post (that name keeps coming up), that really put the “Russian” investigation in the public’s eye. 

If Trump was trying to obstruct Comey regarding Flynn, then Trump was actually trying to obstruct the FBI regarding the “Russian” investigation.  Even if Comey did not publically mention the Trump encounter to congress, should not the FBI have still opened an obstruction of justice case against Trump, if that is what Comey really believed had happened?

The anonymous source said that Comey kept it from the FBI team doing the “Russian” investi