June 20, 2018, 11:29:30 AM

Author Topic: Bronies meet and greet  (Read 34103 times)

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #140 on: January 19, 2017, 09:31:59 AM »
Eh, expect a bunch of Russian troll propaganda from the usual suspects about how brave humble man of the people Yanukovych was brutally ousted by a bunch of Nazi Ukrainians. Never mind that Yanukovych was incredibly corrupt and a Putin puppet and eventually the Ukrainians had enough of being screwed over by a bunch of sleazy foreigners.

This is what happened the last time Putin tried installing a puppet in a foreign country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565697/House-fit-tyrant-Protestors-storm-sprawling-luxury-estate-Ukraines-fugitive-president-private-zoo-golf-course-half-size-Monaco.html

Hey, if ya can't beat 'em or install a corrupt puppet as their president, just annex 'em!

So our we backed our SOB and Putin backed his SOB and both sides were SOBs in achieving their goals.

No one is arguing that Putin is some sort of benevolent ruler. What we are disagreeing with is your presentation of the United States as some sort of innocent party who consistently acts in a virtuous manner for democracy.

Do you not see anything wrong with regime change, meddling in the internal affairs of other countries to further United States interests, and THEN getting upset with other countries when they engage in the exact same thing.

Look, there's a way to argue this- "Yes we do nasty things to. We ill do nasty things in the future, but I think it's in America's best interests to confront and beat Putin with interventions and meddling in other countries." That's a fair argument to make. But stop pretending that we don't do the same thing and then getting upset when someone else does it and that somehow makes them evil in comparison to us.

If you're an idealist, then you should seriously question America's past actions when it comes to intervention and meddling. If you're a realist, then you shouldn't pretend that America is some sort of virtuous actor. That's all we're trying to say.

Also, do you really think everyone who is disagreeing with you is some sort of Russian troll? You're delusional.

Again literally using stale old propaganda tactics from the Soviet era to defend brutal dictators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Again literally using stale old propaganda tactics from the Red Scare era and McCarthyism as well as Bush era fearmongering to goad us into wars and imperialism.

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #141 on: January 19, 2017, 03:44:14 PM »

Offline maximmm

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #142 on: January 20, 2017, 05:53:19 AM »
I think this is awesome - even better than Kpop vs Apop thread. 

Keep going, folks!

Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2017, 11:12:29 PM »
Its always funny to see life improvement lose a thread.

Facts cause him to disappear.  Or start posting irrelevant youtube videos.



Neither adel, life improvement, hippo, or mayor haggar ever actually answer questions or formulate a logical argument, of course.



Aurata wins again.   :undecided:
Imagine your Korea...

Online Adel

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Aurata's Deluded Self-indulgence
« Reply #144 on: January 21, 2017, 12:27:50 AM »
Its always funny to see life improvement lose a thread.

Facts cause him to disappear.  Or start posting irrelevant youtube videos.



Neither adel, life improvement, hippo, or mayor haggar ever actually answer questions or formulate a logical argument, of course.



Aurata wins again.   :undecided:


It must feel wonderful to proclaim yourself a winner so regularly!
Tell us, is it something you like to do while pleasuring yourself in front of a mirror?   :wink:  :wink:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 11:08:11 AM by Adel »

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #145 on: January 21, 2017, 10:16:31 AM »
Its always funny to see life improvement lose a thread.

Facts cause him to disappear.  Or start posting irrelevant youtube videos.



Neither adel, life improvement, hippo, or mayor haggar ever actually answer questions or formulate a logical argument, of course.



Aurata wins again.   :undecided:

Remember when you told us what country you were actually from and why a Westerner supposedly teaching English in Korea would turn into an anti-Western Putin cult fanboy?

Yeah me neither.

Offline hippo

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #146 on: January 21, 2017, 02:18:44 PM »

It proved my original point that the US topples foreign governments (which hippo couldn't bring himself to believe).

Where did I say I did not believe that?

State powers act according to interests, and there's usually a lots more continuity than change in long-standing states.  You seem to suggest there a big change with the Bush administration and the Wolfowitz Doctrine. While you might be able to suddenly create drastic foreign policy changes in a dictatorship or in newly formed states powers, it's hard to introduce drastic changes with long-standing bureaucracies.  At the most basic level, there has to at least be structures in place that would allow for pursuing neoconservative policies.  Saying that "globalists" somehow took over so many different agencies in the Bush administration, and giving vague explanations of how U.S. policy used to be different (no dates, etc.) makes it hard to address what you say.

It is strange to see people defending dictatorships.  At the same time, it is to see criticism of the policy of Western governments as being somehow necessarily out of sympathy for a foreign adversary.  Even when the Soviet Union existed, why was it bad to criticize aspects of Western foreign policy without saying the Soviet Union and the West were equivalent?

It is strange to be talking about this topic on a board primarily for English teachers and English teaching in Korea.



Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #147 on: January 21, 2017, 06:13:59 PM »
It is strange to see people defending dictatorships

Why do you guys keep talking about dictatorships in a derogatory fashion? Westerns always do this, it's such a cliche. "Oh bla bla democracy is so great, not like an evil dictatorship". Get real.

Dictatorship is one form of government, and like all forms it can work well, or not. The US would be so lucky as to have a dictator like Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore. There have been many dictatorships in human history, some good for the people, some not. There have been many democracies, some good for the people like early US, and some filled with misery like current US.

The goodness of dictatorship depends on if you have a benevolent dictator, or a malevolent dictator. Benevolent dictatorship is the ideal form of government, there is nothing better. Democracy, that's pretty crappy stuff, filled with idiots arguing, and lies to control the ignorant mob. None of this nonsense is necessary in a dictatorship, you just get stuff done. Bam, do it. The US is moving to malevolent dictatorship (Trump), because their democracy is completely dysfunctional.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #148 on: January 22, 2017, 02:42:23 PM »
I used to think the Chinese would take over the world too, then I saw the state of their bathrooms.

Online Adel

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #149 on: January 23, 2017, 04:09:22 AM »
I used to think the Chinese would take over the world too, then I saw the state of their bathrooms.


Offline maximmm

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #150 on: January 23, 2017, 08:10:40 AM »
It's interesting, but I'm noticing that all trolls have fancy profile pics here on waygook.


Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #151 on: January 23, 2017, 02:59:10 PM »
It is strange to see people defending dictatorships

Why do you guys keep talking about dictatorships in a derogatory fashion?

Those poor dictatorships! Won't anyone think of the poor dictatorships??!!?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #152 on: January 23, 2017, 03:28:09 PM »
Well, which was better- the empire of the Kaiser or the democracy of the Nazis? The dictatorship of Assad or the Hobbesian world of ISIS? The dictatorship of Mubarak or the democracy of Morsi?

Ideally in a perfect world, a country has a reasonable democracy or republic. Situations aren't always ideal. Democracies can turn into mob rule. Republics can grow corrupt. Foreign enemies can invade. Uprisings can take place. In such times, authoritarian government might prove to be beneficial.

I doubt a democratically elected Russian government in 1941 could have staved off Hitler. It would have fractured. Sad to say, probably only Stalin had the will necessary to see Russia through that fight. Conversely, if France was more authoritarian in 1939-1940, it might not have capitulated so quickly.  Now, before you say that the UK under Churchill and the US under FDR were democracies- colonialism and Jim Crow.

A government's first job is to provide order and safety for its citizens. Putin somewhat succeeds at that, Russian drivers not withstanding. Their lives certainly prospered up until the sanctions hit. The same goes for the Communists in China.

Now, we can go on a crusade and denounce every government that isn't perfectly democratic and refuse to do business with them, or we can grow up and accept the world as it is, not how we wish it to be. Just understand, that the more idealistic and pure you get with your views on democracy and dictatorship, the greater the chance of war.

Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #153 on: January 23, 2017, 10:02:44 PM »
Look, there's a way to argue this- "Yes we do nasty things to. We ill do nasty things in the future, but I think it's in America's best interests to confront and beat Putin with interventions and meddling in other countries." That's a fair argument to make.

It would be fair if there was even an element of truth to it.

But it clearly wasn't a hack.

Former british Ambassador to Craig Murray says that the information on Hilary was leaked to him by disgruntled insiders, not russians.

Julian Assange has said the same thing over and over.

Quote
He claims he had a clandestine hand-off in a wooded area near American University with one of the email sources
The leakers' motivation was 'disgust at the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and the  'tilting of the primary election playing field against Bernie Sanders'
Murray says: 'The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks'
'Regardless of whether the Russians hacked into the DNC, the documents Wikileaks published did not come from that,' Murray insists
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html


So we're left with the same conclusion: the central disinformation agency fabricated the wholesale antagonism and demonization of Russia all over again, as they have been doing for years and decades.

Quote from: Adel
It must feel wonderful to proclaim yourself a winner so regularly!

Its kinda more fun watching Hilary attend trump's inauguration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwKQ8XTWWk

her look at 0.38 is priceless  :laugh:
Imagine your Korea...

Online Life Improvement

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #154 on: January 24, 2017, 01:48:09 PM »
Quote
Murray is a controversial figure who was removed from his post as a British ambassador amid allegations of misconduct.
Quote
His account is likely to be seen as both unprovable and possibly biased



Online Life Improvement

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #155 on: January 24, 2017, 02:03:39 PM »
Why are all the ones more than 50 years ago suddenly not valid to you?

Because you wrote this:

In recent years American freedoms have been seriously eroded at home.

Abroad, they now show a similar contempt for democracy as they topple democratically elected governments and replace them with puppet leaders who will look after US interests.

Now = within the past 50 years, not decades before we were born. You want me to go back further? (Maybe talk about slavery?)

How many democratically elected governments has the U.S. toppled in the past 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, etc.? None? Give a specific example. (Of something within the past 40 years.) The more recent the better.

How long have we got? the list is endless.

Let's see this endless list. There are none. Not even within the past 50 years. 1973 in Chile is the most recently you can reasonably attempt, but even that one wasn't the U.S. It was an internal coup d'état, which was quite common in the region at the time. Recent evidence shows the U.S. played no role in that. But that is ancient history anyways. Tell me about the democratically elected governments the U.S. is toppling now. You claimed it; back it up.

Online MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #156 on: January 24, 2017, 03:31:18 PM »
Look, there's a way to argue this- "Yes we do nasty things to. We ill do nasty things in the future, but I think it's in America's best interests to confront and beat Putin with interventions and meddling in other countries." That's a fair argument to make.

It would be fair if there was even an element of truth to it.

But it clearly wasn't a hack.

Former british Ambassador to Craig Murray says that the information on Hilary was leaked to him by disgruntled insiders, not russians.

Julian Assange has said the same thing over and over.

Quote
He claims he had a clandestine hand-off in a wooded area near American University with one of the email sources
The leakers' motivation was 'disgust at the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and the  'tilting of the primary election playing field against Bernie Sanders'
Murray says: 'The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks'
'Regardless of whether the Russians hacked into the DNC, the documents Wikileaks published did not come from that,' Murray insists
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html


So we're left with the same conclusion: the central disinformation agency fabricated the wholesale antagonism and demonization of Russia all over again, as they have been doing for years and decades.


Online Adel

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #157 on: January 28, 2017, 02:56:43 AM »
Look, there's a way to argue this- "Yes we do nasty things to. We ill do nasty things in the future, but I think it's in America's best interests to confront and beat Putin with interventions and meddling in other countries." That's a fair argument to make.

It would be fair if there was even an element of truth to it.

But it clearly wasn't a hack.

Former british Ambassador to Craig Murray says that the information on Hilary was leaked to him by disgruntled insiders, not russians.

Julian Assange has said the same thing over and over.

Quote
He claims he had a clandestine hand-off in a wooded area near American University with one of the email sources
The leakers' motivation was 'disgust at the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and the  'tilting of the primary election playing field against Bernie Sanders'
Murray says: 'The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks'
'Regardless of whether the Russians hacked into the DNC, the documents Wikileaks published did not come from that,' Murray insists
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html


So we're left with the same conclusion: the central disinformation agency fabricated the wholesale antagonism and demonization of Russia all over again, as they have been doing for years and decades.




Well it appears that there may be  evidence from the Moscow Times indicating how the CIA knows that the DNC was hacked by Russians. For the origin of the story на русском, a credible chap, like Aurata, might like to help with the translation. ;D


« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 04:04:05 AM by Adel »

Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #158 on: January 30, 2017, 03:22:26 PM »
Well it appears that there may be  evidence from the Moscow Times indicating how the CIA knows that the DNC was hacked by Russians.

How you do arrive at these ridiculous conclusions?.

The report says they discovered an American spy.

In other words America was hacking Russia, not the other way round.


Multiple witnesses say that Killary's emails were leaked by a disgruntled insider. Why do you find this so impossible?

In any case, the crime at issue is Hilary's treacherous actions against the US. The person who exposed her should be given a medal. Not criminalized. But you seem happy with government corruption?


Imagine your Korea...

Online Adel

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #159 on: January 30, 2017, 03:43:56 PM »
Well it appears that there may be  evidence from the Moscow Times indicating how the CIA knows that the DNC was hacked by Russians.

How you do arrive at these ridiculous conclusions?.

The report says they discovered an American spy.

In other words America was hacking Russia, not the other way round.


I know nuance isn't your strength but you should note the use of tentative language in the post toots, it's hardly conclusive evidence. Nonetheless, even Trump acknowledges it was the Russians so the CIA must have found out somehow. Espionage tends to cut both ways. Use your critical thinking skills to connect the dots.

 



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