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Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 1059978 times)

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1620 on: October 14, 2016, 01:15:05 PM »
My Grade 3's came into my classroom with banners and signs saying '우리 말' and '한글' shouting 'No English'.

It was kinda funny, and was meant in jest I believe...but it also felt a little uncomfortable and sad.

This is weird... even if it was in jest, the way their grudges against other countries and their victim complexes are fostered at even young ages makes me sick. They make them believe Korea is better than everywhere else, us vs them, other countries are moral-less bullies blah blah and then force them to study English for years and years to the point where they hate it. Okay... what are they trying to accomplish here?

The number of adult (especially teachers at my school) who have expressed their hatred of English when talking to me is unsettling. Eve more so when they are then all buddy buddy let's go play volleyball and drink.

Yeah, no thanks.

That's what you get when you force a (let's be honest, almost useless to everyone here) subject onto an unwilling, but unable to resist, audience. Imagine if you had a colleague that you could only communicate with via calculus or something. You might resent that person, too. I'd probably go out of my way to never speak with him.

Oh, I agree. I fully understand there resentment and dislike of it. I've even said and had most of my CTs agree that teaching English to everyone is absolutely pointless.

I can even understand avoiding them. I do it all the time myself.


Offline strugglebunny

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1621 on: October 14, 2016, 01:17:08 PM »

I kind of wish Japan would be the better country and just give up its claim, but then we'd hear an endless stream of nonsense of how Korea heroically defeated its honor over the tyrannical Japanese. (Plus I know there are possible claims to resources underneath the sea which is the real reason the two counties even give a crap about those rocks.)

Japan has offered to take it to a neutral international court of arbitration and to honor the results of the hearing whatever they end up being, but Korea refused. I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

Never knew about that. Now I hate the whole thing even more. Can't wait to get out of this country...

Of course, if I go back to the U.S., I'll just have another brand of stupid nationalism to deal with.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 01:19:20 PM by strugglebunny »

Offline defenderoftherealm

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1622 on: October 14, 2016, 01:18:08 PM »
Maybe it's because they view it as just another subject. I know, many times, I find myself vocalizing my hatred for math

Do you vocalize your hatred of math to the math teachers you work with?

This is what I was going to say.

I don't like a lot of things. I've always managed to not mention it to the people doing those things.

My first day here my CT introduced me to all the teachers in our office;

One of them said 'Hi, I'm _____. I hate English.' (Very happy and smiley.)
Me: Uh, nice to meet you?

One of the things I'm consistently surprised by here is the number of people who seem to think that I will care about their opinion. (Ie. Why say something when you can say nothing.)

You should have said, "And English hates you too." (영어는 너를 싫해요.)

donovan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1623 on: October 14, 2016, 01:20:19 PM »
Japan has offered to take it to a neutral international court of arbitration and to honor the results of the hearing whatever they end up being, but Korea refused. I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

Really? Ain't that some s**t. :shocked:

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1624 on: October 14, 2016, 01:33:21 PM »
Korea also likes blasting Kpop music across the border at the north. Can't say they're known for being... mature... :laugh:

Online Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1625 on: October 14, 2016, 01:33:39 PM »
Japan has offered to take it to a neutral international court of arbitration and to honor the results of the hearing whatever they end up being, but Korea refused. I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

Really? Ain't that some s**t. :shocked:

Yup. Three times, no less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks_dispute#Proposal_to_settle_before_ICJ_rejected

Offline chupacaubrey

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1626 on: October 14, 2016, 01:36:48 PM »
Japan has offered to take it to a neutral international court of arbitration and to honor the results of the hearing whatever they end up being, but Korea refused. I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

Really? Ain't that some s**t. :shocked:

Yup. Three times, no less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks_dispute#Proposal_to_settle_before_ICJ_rejected

Do Japanese folks even visit the Liancourt Rocks or is it just Koreans who go to carpet the surface with flags?

Online kobayashi

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1627 on: October 14, 2016, 01:41:39 PM »
i really think korea DOESN'T want the islands to be declared theirs. if the islands are declared korean territory by the International Court of Justice or whatever it's called, they lose a MASSIVE political tool that they use to indoctrinate nationalism and anti-japanese sentiment into their population.

i've read about korea's claim to the islands, their evidence is actually pretty convincing. but they still don't want it taken to arbitration.

of course there are those mineral deposits under the rocks, but with the current impasse no-one is able to access them. so think about that for a minute. using the rocks as a political tool is more important to the korean government than those minerals.

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1628 on: October 14, 2016, 01:44:24 PM »
우리말 does just mean Korean. In class when I ask "and how do we say ____ in Korean?" my coteacher will always translate as 우리말로 어떻게 말해요?

Anyways, on the concept of lack of empathy: completely. I would never have said to any of my foreign language teachers that I hated their language. "I don't like English" ok. "I don't like learning English" Even better. "I'm not good at English" pure honesty! I would accept any of this much more from a kid than from a coworker though. The kids have to study English. The coworkers? If they don't like English they can just not talk to me.

Actually, a couple months ago I probably ranted about this. My kids are SO shocked whenever I say anything in Korean, or indicate that when I ask them to translate something (to ensure they understand the meaning) I actually know enough Korean to confirm if the translation is accurate, and yet, there have been times when they yell at me "Teacher!! No English!! Speak Korean!!" because they can't understand/aren't paying attention to my super simple instructions and feel frustrated. As if I don't wish I was magically fluent as well!

Last weekend when I was out with my dancing friends (all Korean) one of the instructors, who speaks English really well, got on my case. I speak as much Korean as I can with them but after an hour or two I hit a wall in terms of ability and revert completely back to English. He tried to berate me, saying "Moonbrie, we all try so hard for you to speak English, you need to speak Korean with us!!!" I said to him "How long have you learned English for? Ten years? More? I took Korean for only two years, and I speak as much Korean as I can. You know how hard it is to learn English, it's just as hard for me to learn Korean"

The idea like we should be able to learn Korean in a month just kills be because they all struggle with English and know how hard it is. I don't know why empathy is so lacking in both children and adults here.

donovan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1629 on: October 14, 2016, 01:44:38 PM »
i really think korea DOESN'T want the islands to be declared theirs. if the islands are declared korean territory by the International Court of Justice or whatever it's called, they lose a MASSIVE political tool that they use to indoctrinate nationalism and anti-japanese sentiment into their population.

i've read about korea's claim to the islands, their evidence is actually pretty convincing. but they still don't want it taken to arbitration.

of course there are those mineral deposits under the rocks, but with the current impasse no-one is able to access them. so think about that for a minute. using the rocks as a political tool is more important to the korean government than those minerals.


Mr. Tim feels the same way ;D

I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1630 on: October 14, 2016, 02:04:40 PM »
i really think korea DOESN'T want the islands to be declared theirs. if the islands are declared korean territory by the International Court of Justice or whatever it's called, they lose a MASSIVE political tool that they use to indoctrinate nationalism and anti-japanese sentiment into their population.

i've read about korea's claim to the islands, their evidence is actually pretty convincing. but they still don't want it taken to arbitration.

of course there are those mineral deposits under the rocks, but with the current impasse no-one is able to access them. so think about that for a minute. using the rocks as a political tool is more important to the korean government than those minerals.

And the seagulls, millions and millions of seagulls.  Won't someone think of the seagulls, please.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1631 on: October 14, 2016, 02:09:45 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

Online CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1632 on: October 14, 2016, 02:16:53 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

I think everyone has a certain amount of "base English" inside of them. They grow up watching American movies, British movies, and English slang. There's English on signs everywhere. It's the lingua franca for a reason.

Guess how much Korean I knew prior to coming? Ssibal, Annyeong and Hajima. These were all speaking, too, I didn't know how to read hangeul. And why would I?

This doesn't mean that one is better than the other, that's silly. But the world, as a whole, has an "English Experience" in their lives, big or small. Very, very few people have a "Korean Experience" while doing their Masters in Psychology in Stuttgart. It simply doesn't happen.

Offline HaLo3

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1633 on: October 14, 2016, 02:18:07 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.
I've had conversations like this. "Korean is so easy! English doesn't make sense!" I find myself having to explain the differences that make English difficult for them also make Korean difficult for us.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1634 on: October 14, 2016, 02:19:24 PM »
On the topic of learning Korean, I was thinking about that earlier with regards to the recent discussion about what native English speakers can offer that Korean teachers cant and how we're all going to be replaced by Koreans.

It had me wondering what Koreans might say if you were to ask them what they think would be better: Learning Korean from Koreans, or learning Korean from non-Koreans. I'm reasonably certain that they'd agree that someone learning Korean would be better off with at least one native speaker to learn from, even if his or her other teachers are non-native speakers, than he would be if none of his teachers were native speakers.

The question then would become would they make the connection that having an NET as part of a student's English education is a good thing, rather than moving towards removing them completely?

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1635 on: October 14, 2016, 02:21:38 PM »
Guess how much Korean I knew prior to coming? Ssibal, Annyeong and Hajima. These were all speaking, too, I didn't know how to read hangeul. And why would I?

 ;D

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1636 on: October 14, 2016, 02:24:20 PM »
I usually just stick with the "this is how long you've studied English, this is how long I've studied Korean" and after repeating myself once or twice they get it. I don't try to explain how their ~beloved language~ could be difficult haha

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1637 on: October 14, 2016, 02:27:22 PM »
;D

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1638 on: October 14, 2016, 02:27:31 PM »
I've experienced this as well. More than a few Koreans have said to me, "Why aren't you fluent in Korean yet? English is hard; Korean is easy." Usually this was said to me in Korean rather than in English. As I became more advanced in my Korean studies, I could increasingly understand what locals were saying to me.

Here's a good response- "Korean was easy for you because kids can more quickly pick up correct pronunciation and correct grammar. Korean has an objectively large number of sounds and an objectively large number of grammar points. Learning a language as an adult is really tough." Figure out how to say that in Korean.

If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1639 on: October 14, 2016, 02:31:22 PM »
;D

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

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