January 17, 2019, 12:11:16 AM


Author Topic: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim  (Read 3443 times)

donovan

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2018, 01:33:04 PM »
He inherited a system where you have to kill to survive. It's not his fault that he was born into that. What's he supposed to do? Allow himself to be murdered by people who seek his power? I think you'd kill someone who was gunning for your blood too.

As for me, I'm an angry guy. There are people who have pissed me off enough that I wish I had KJU's power.

Itís a sad reality that he probably couldnít be in the position heís in today without the willingness to ruthlessly execute others. Letís just hope itís not the countryís eternal destiny to have such leaders. They probably wonít be able to break that cycle until they can get beyond the House of Kim.

As for you, thatís a lot of anger to carry around with you. Iím sorry to have been snarky about it.

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2018, 02:56:11 PM »
Putin should be happy with the Chump-Kim deal if it really does mean an end to those military exercises.

https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-russia-putin-us-army-chief-presses-on-military-exercises/

Perhaps that played a role in Chump's off-script suggestion.  :undecided:

Offline StillInKorea

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2018, 05:09:08 PM »
He inherited a system where you have to kill to survive. It's not his fault that he was born into that. What's he supposed to do? Allow himself to be murdered by people who seek his power? I think you'd kill someone who was gunning for your blood too.

As for me, I'm an angry guy. There are people who have pissed me off enough that I wish I had KJU's power.

Itís a sad reality that he probably couldnít be in the position heís in today without the willingness to ruthlessly execute others. Letís just hope itís not the countryís eternal destiny to have such leaders. They probably wonít be able to break that cycle until they can get beyond the House of Kim.

I think Kim is looking to turn his country around, but that can't be done overnight. If you make sudden changes in a dictatorship, you get deposed and hung.

Offline grey

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2018, 05:16:54 PM »
I've been watching various outlets' coverage and I have to say that China is included far less than I think it should be. Bloomberg has been more to my liking, but I think a lot of the coverage is missing the most important player in this whole situation.

I think anything KJU does need to get the okay from Xi.

I also think that participation trophies should be passed around.
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donovan

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2018, 07:47:34 PM »
He inherited a system where you have to kill to survive. It's not his fault that he was born into that. What's he supposed to do? Allow himself to be murdered by people who seek his power? I think you'd kill someone who was gunning for your blood too.

As for me, I'm an angry guy. There are people who have pissed me off enough that I wish I had KJU's power.

Itís a sad reality that he probably couldnít be in the position heís in today without the willingness to ruthlessly execute others. Letís just hope itís not the countryís eternal destiny to have such leaders. They probably wonít be able to break that cycle until they can get beyond the House of Kim.

I think Kim is looking to turn his country around, but that can't be done overnight. If you make sudden changes in a dictatorship, you get deposed and hung.

I *hope* Chairman Kim is looking to turn his country around (Only Rodman really knows), but I wouldnít pin it all on a vaguely worded two-page document. Given the countryís past, and what is known about Kim himself, a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted.

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2018, 09:06:42 PM »
He inherited a system where you have to kill to survive. It's not his fault that he was born into that. What's he supposed to do? Allow himself to be murdered by people who seek his power? I think you'd kill someone who was gunning for your blood too.

As for me, I'm an angry guy. There are people who have pissed me off enough that I wish I had KJU's power.

Itís a sad reality that he probably couldnít be in the position heís in today without the willingness to ruthlessly execute others. Letís just hope itís not the countryís eternal destiny to have such leaders. They probably wonít be able to break that cycle until they can get beyond the House of Kim.

As for you, thatís a lot of anger to carry around with you. Iím sorry to have been snarky about it.
That ain't happening for a very long time.

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2018, 09:08:33 PM »
Me hate Trump.

Me think he too successful.

Me want America economy to collapse.

Me want North Korea to attack.

Me have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Me retarded.
One out of six; you're never going to make it to the majors with that average.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2018, 08:10:16 AM »
The fact is that no one, either pro-Trump or anti-Trump can draw any firm conclusions off of this summit.

It was largely a feeling-out meeting and both sides gave up things they can easily take back.

One side is declaring Nobel Prize for Trump, the other is declaring the deal an instant disaster.

Relax people.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2018, 10:08:53 AM »

Kim gets global recognition, South Korea/US joint drills will finish, sanctions will be relaxed. 


Global Recognition? What exactly changes? Is Merkel suddenly going "Trump talked to Kim? That changes everything!!!" Are Kim's people suddenly lining up to cheer him without firing squad motivation? Give me a break.

Those drills and sanctions can instantly be restarted if North Korean reneges on its pledge to denuclearize.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2018, 12:51:08 PM »
Iran are thinking, 'hey, we had a nuclear agreement too', the other G7 countries are thinking, 'he prioritised this cheesy photo op with flimsy deal to leave our summit early and piss us off?'.  North Korean state media is already showing how their 'Supreme Leader' won.  Kim -1 Trump -0
North Korean media would say their leader won no matter what happened in the negotiations.

Iran was still a pariah after the sanctions. They were also engaging in a proxy war in Syria and Yemen. We can still renegotiate a deal that will have the backing of both political parties in the U.S.

The G7 countries are big boys. They aren't going anywhere. Again, we're talking symbolic stuff that can be changed at a moment's notice.

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2018, 01:20:34 PM »
I agree with Martin on this one.

a) Nothing has actually happened yet
b) The things that may happen are entirely reversible

You have to talk first, to be able talk some more later. Trump has shown some good will here, weather it goes anywhere is another matter.

I saw someone something like "Some time over the last few decades everyone seems to have come to agreement that having normal conversations with other countries is a reward and not a morally neutral act. This and all the legitimacy talk comes from an age when the US decided what tyrants were in and which were out. It's a different world now"
Kpip! - Martin 2018

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2018, 01:35:14 PM »
I agree with Martin on this one.

a) Nothing has actually happened yet
b) The things that may happen are entirely reversible

You have to talk first, to be able talk some more later. Trump has shown some good will here, weather it goes anywhere is another matter.

I saw someone something like "Some time over the last few decades everyone seems to have come to agreement that having normal conversations with other countries is a reward and not a morally neutral act. This and all the legitimacy talk comes from an age when the US decided what tyrants were in and which were out. It's a different world now"

It's very true! But all the talk before the summit was how Trump was going to get such a great deal with North Korea on that first meeting.

Can you imagine Obama sitting down with the Iranian President and afterwards coming out saying: "There is a strong wish on both sides to denuclearize the Arabian Peninsula." Then to also come out later and say: "I'm scaling back US Navy maneuvers in the Persian Gulf." He would have been absolutely slaughtered by the Republicans for such a weak decision.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2018, 02:23:00 PM »
It's very true! But all the talk before the summit was how Trump was going to get such a great deal with North Korea on that first meeting.
That's not what was said. That's what some people chose to hear.

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2018, 02:43:48 PM »
It's very true! But all the talk before the summit was how Trump was going to get such a great deal with North Korea on that first meeting.
That's not what was said. That's what some people chose to hear.

Trump tweeted about expecting a ďreal dealĒ. Nothing has progressed since the Moon/Kim meeting.

Offline AlivePoet

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2018, 02:52:11 PM »
It's very true! But all the talk before the summit was how Trump was going to get such a great deal with North Korea on that first meeting.
That's not what was said. That's what some people chose to hear.

Trump tweeted about expecting a ďreal dealĒ. Nothing has progressed since the Moon/Kim meeting.

So it was typed, not said. Mr. DeMartino remains correct, and you'd be wise to know he will continue on that path.

Offline tylerthegloob

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2018, 02:54:08 PM »
It's very true! But all the talk before the summit was how Trump was going to get such a great deal with North Korea on that first meeting.
That's not what was said. That's what some people chose to hear.

Trump tweeted about expecting a ďreal dealĒ. Nothing has progressed since the Moon/Kim meeting.

So it was typed, not said. Mr. DeMartino remains correct, and you'd be wise to know he will continue on that path.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/say

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2018, 02:56:10 PM »
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/donald-trump-potential-second-day-meeting-kim-jong-un/index.html
"I think it's a 'getting to know you' meeting plus, and that could be a very positive thing," Trump said.

It's not Donald Trump's fault you didn't pay attention.

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Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2018, 03:02:09 PM »
Face it, he didn't prepare, he didn't gain anything for all his bluster from him or his camp.  I agree, nothing actually happened yet, but from all the hot air that was extruded from Trump and his camp, he got nothing concrete on his main aims.  Just that North Korea has some great beaches that could do with a condo or some real estate.   :rolleyes:  Which in the end is one of Trump's main interests.  Furthering his and his horrible family's business interests. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/13/trump-white-house-donald-ivanka-jared-clinton

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. If this is a negotiation then maybe there is cause for concern.

On the other hand, if the final goal has already been established in negotiations and agreed upon, what is important now is trust-building measures and maintaining North Korea and Kim's dignity. It IS also important to project optimism. What's Trump supposed to say "Well, this is a pointless waste of time and we're pessimistic." That doesn't give North Korea much incentive to follow through.

North Korea knows what is on the table if they don't follow through. John Bolton's mere presence in the room made that abundantly clear. It doesn't need to be waived in Kim's face.

No matter what Trump did or said, his haters were going to naysay.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Singapore Summit: Trump meets Kim
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2018, 03:35:06 PM »
As Iran look through the window and think, 'we were keeping our side of the bargain'....  You can trust Trump's word as far as you can throw him.  Bolton's shadow looms large...  One thing that is abundantly obvious here, is that you can't trust the US to keep their word on anything.

I don't think Iran has been acting in good faith regarding its nuclear deal. Now, I agree that some of the fear-mongering regarding Iran is overblown, but the Iranians haven't demonstrably opened up or pursued the path of outright peace (which in some ways is understandable, considering their neighbors).

This is no more untrustworthy than the Libya fiasco under Obama/Clinton.

If the U.S. is untrustworthy, and there is some argument for that which goes beyond Trump, then that simply means that the North Koreans view them as untrustworthy as they view us. This is why trust-building measures are important, which Trump is seeking to do.

North Korea's situation is NOT the same as Iran's. Iran has a bunch of non-nuclear armed neighbors (and Israel), none of which could really mount a successful invasion, and is not a divided country. Furthermore, North Korea would enjoy the security guarantee of China, something that Iran doesn't have.

I think the best course of action, and one that may well be implemented, is one of phased disarmament and drawdown, one which would likely accelerate as certain benchmarks are met. North Korea still retains the deterrent of its conventional (and chemical) artillery aimed at Seoul. In time that could be drawn down as well as North Korea opens up.

We could even see something like a mutual defense treaty amongst ALL of the powers of the Six-Party Talks, save perhaps Russia and Japan, that obligates all of the others to come to the defense of North Korea/South Korea if either  one is attacked by any other party (North Korea may have its own wariness about China, given that they once had Kim's brother on ice as a replacement). This wouldn't be feasible with Iran.

With that issue solved, the only remaining issue would be China-Japan/US/Taiwan when it comes to East Asian security, and economic interests bind those nations much more closely than anything in the U.S., certainly nothing that would warrant an escalation beyond a skirmish over some islands.