January 24, 2019, 06:23:19 PM


Author Topic: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.  (Read 3551 times)

Online Savant

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2018, 09:13:24 AM »
There were shootings in both London and Paris where owning guns are illegal.  I think you lost the plot buddy.  Banning guns means only the criminals and terrorists have them because they don't care about the law.  Law abiding citizens don't and can't defend themselves and shoot back.  Those cities both have strict controls, yet terrorists still shot at people with guns. 

If someone was running at me with a knife, I'd like to be able to shoot him first so he can't stab me.  It's great if you are an advanced martial artist and can use hand gestures to stop a knife or bat attack.  But everyone else is screwed in that situation.  In London, the banned having knives.  So now,  there are a spike in acid attacks.  Acid to the face is some pretty frightening stuff.  It apparently originates in certain countries and the Europeans bring them into their country so it happens there.  Dumb.

 :rolleyes:

Your first paragraph is like something from a NRA leaflet.  You use ONE example from France and England and compare it to America where mass shootings are something of a norm.  From 1966 to 2012, America had 90 mass shootings to France's 10.  Since 2012, we've had Sandy Hook and another 32 gun massacres, whereas in France there was Charlie Hebdo and the Paris attacks in the same time.  33-2. 
Your second paragraph is equally nonsensical.  'IF' is another word that the NRA use a lot, but the likelihood of you being in the situation whereby someone is running at you with a knife, is tiny.  The likelihood of being in a mass shooting is higher, statistically, as some other sites might put the mass shootings in the US since 2012 at around 1576. 
I wouldn't say you've lost it, as it sounds like there was nothing there to lose in the first place. 

 :rolleyes:

Nice. 80 dead. Weapon? Truck.

And cities have introduced preventative measures such as barriers to prevent future truck attacks.

Preventative measures for mass gun killings in the US are...rocks and mini-baseball bats in the classroom?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2018, 09:14:01 AM »
reading threads like these, it seems to me that all non-americans think america's gun laws are crazy, yet most americans see nothing wrong with their gun laws

Absolutely.

I think who the fuuck needs to walk around with a gun on them in their everyday life?  Don't give me any of this second amendment nonsense.  Why the fuuck can you go to a shop and just buy a gun?

Anyone handling large amounts of money, probation officers, taxi drivers, female truckers, any woman who spends a substantial amount of time traveling particularly to isolated areas, farmers, loggers, surveyors, security, lawyers, judges, off-duty cops, people who live near the border, people with children who live near a registered sex-offender, etc.

For many people a gun is a tool and buying one is not some dramatic scary thing. Not everyone shits themself when someone they know buys a gun.

Offline Mister Tim

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2018, 09:14:58 AM »


And cities have introduced preventative measures such as barriers to prevent future truck attacks.

Preventative measures for mass gun killings in the US are...

Thoughts and prayers.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2018, 09:51:21 AM »
Two out of thirteen.   :rolleyes:
If you don't know why people who work those other jobs need guns, you don't know what you're talking about. People handling large amounts of money need to carry guns because someone might decide they don't want to leave witnesses (not talking somebody taking the day's receipts to the bank from the donut shop), more like people carrying $100k+. Probate officers need to carry because there's a chance that violated cons may come after them. Taxi drivers have one of the highest rates of death due to crime, female cab drivers in particular. Same goes for female truckers or any woman who has to travel alone and stay in isolated areas (such as motels) where she is a potential victim for sexual assault. Loggers, particularly independent small operations may deal with animals, same with surveyors. Lawyers and judges, again the criminal revenge element. People who live near the border might get spillover from the crime down there. And people who live with children near registered sex offenders, particularly single mothers.

Also on the list repo men, bail bondsmen, people who serve court notices, and other people who deal with delinquents.

My question is, why do you think women don't deserve the right to protect themselves on equal footing with men?

Online Savant

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2018, 09:57:42 AM »
Two out of thirteen.   :rolleyes:
If you don't know why people who work those other jobs need guns, you don't know what you're talking about. People handling large amounts of money need to carry guns because someone might decide they don't want to leave witnesses (not talking somebody taking the day's receipts to the bank from the donut shop), more like people carrying $100k+. Probate officers need to carry because there's a chance that violated cons may come after them. Taxi drivers have one of the highest rates of death due to crime, female cab drivers in particular. Same goes for female truckers or any woman who has to travel alone and stay in isolated areas (such as motels) where she is a potential victim for sexual assault. Loggers, particularly independent small operations may deal with animals, same with surveyors. Lawyers and judges, again the criminal revenge element. People who live near the border might get spillover from the crime down there. And people who live with children near registered sex offenders, particularly single mothers.

Also on the list repo men, bail bondsmen, people who serve court notices, and other people who deal with delinquents.

My question is, why do you think women don't deserve the right to protect themselves on equal footing with men?

You forgot teachers, might be a violent student; bakers, someone pissed off about some moldy bread; priests, bank robbers taking refuge in their church; flower arrangers, customer might get pissed pricking themselves on a thorn.

Your make-believe list is endless.

Online oglop

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2018, 10:40:28 AM »
reading threads like these, it seems to me that all non-americans think america's gun laws are crazy, yet most americans see nothing wrong with their gun laws

Because most non-Americans have a warped view that's based on headlines not experience. America is uneven when it comes to guns. Go to inner cities or trailer parks and its a problem. Go to rural areas or suburbs and lightning is a bigger danger.

And this is why Americans are divided on guns: different threat profiles.
well, i think you are proving my point.

Offline Mike.T

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2018, 10:41:06 AM »
Two out of thirteen.   :rolleyes:
If you don't know why people who work those other jobs need guns, you don't know what you're talking about. People handling large amounts of money need to carry guns because someone might decide they don't want to leave witnesses (not talking somebody taking the day's receipts to the bank from the donut shop), more like people carrying $100k+. Probate officers need to carry because there's a chance that violated cons may come after them. Taxi drivers have one of the highest rates of death due to crime, female cab drivers in particular. Same goes for female truckers or any woman who has to travel alone and stay in isolated areas (such as motels) where she is a potential victim for sexual assault. Loggers, particularly independent small operations may deal with animals, same with surveyors. Lawyers and judges, again the criminal revenge element. People who live near the border might get spillover from the crime down there. And people who live with children near registered sex offenders, particularly single mothers.

Also on the list repo men, bail bondsmen, people who serve court notices, and other people who deal with delinquents.

My question is, why do you think women don't deserve the right to protect themselves on equal footing with men?

You realise the rest of the world has these jobs too, and they do just fine?

If you can point me to statistics that taxi driver/loggers/lawyers etc are significantly safer in the US than other developed countries I'll be surprised.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2018, 10:46:48 AM »
You realise the rest of the world has these jobs too, and they do just fine?

If you can point me to statistics that taxi driver/loggers/lawyers etc are significantly safer in the US than other developed countries I'll be surprised.
Rest of the world has different threat profiles. They aren't bordered by a Narco state and some of the most violent street gangs in the developed world. Nor do they have the racial issues.

But you're starting to see it come to Europe. Neighborhoods turning into no-go zones.

Offline Mike.T

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2018, 11:20:38 AM »
You realise the rest of the world has these jobs too, and they do just fine?

If you can point me to statistics that taxi driver/loggers/lawyers etc are significantly safer in the US than other developed countries I'll be surprised.
Rest of the world has different threat profiles. They aren't bordered by a Narco state and some of the most violent street gangs in the developed world. Nor do they have the racial issues.

Problems of the US's own making...

But you're starting to see it come to Europe. Neighborhoods turning into no-go zones.

Been watching Fox huh?

Offline CDW

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2018, 05:14:36 AM »
"Hey, Londoners — been stabbed or shot yet this week? Just thought I’d check as the place seems to resemble, in its violence, downtown Mogadishu right now — and indeed is graced with many of the same kinds of people. That’s probably why you haven’t been stabbed or shot yet: the murdering has been committed exclusively, so far as I can tell, within the minority ethnic communities by young men who are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. So you’re safe for a while, until they’ve all been used up and the stabby shooty young men get around to you.

"Given this demographic, you might be surprised that the campaigning organisation Black Lives Matter UK has been silent about this epidemic, leading many of us to suspect that BLMUK thinks black lives matter only when whitey is doing the killing and that otherwise it’s nothing to write home about. But by the same token, the rest of us have not become too animated, have we? Our city’s murder rate so far has overtaken that of New York’s and is approaching Detroit’s. Some 62 people have been bumped off since the start of 2018 and in the year to September 2017 there were 37,443 recorded knife crimes and 6,694 recorded gun crimes."
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/its-time-to-get-real-about-gang-violence-in-london/

My suspicions are confirmed.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2018, 11:36:21 AM »
For the gun nuts, don't overlook that suicide rates in the US are lower in states with more restrictive gun laws.

And as for calling the suburbs safe--ever heard of Parkland?

Offline kobayashi

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2018, 12:01:53 AM »
it's not London everyone you should be worried about. it's korea. the murder rate is south korea is 5 times higher than that of the UK: for south korea it's 1.1. for the UK it's 0.2. http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/

Offline SteveBruce

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2018, 05:05:07 AM »
I've returned to London and after 2 years the change has been unbelievable. I'm from what was considered one of the safest boroughs in the city, and in the space of 2 years the town centre is full of crack heads and thugs. The borough has been on the decline for a number of years and there were always areas that had a reputation, but in such a short space of time the decline has become precipitous.

Martin mentioned "no go areas" and that is unhelpful if you can't back it up, however saying "you been watching Fox huh?" is just as unhelpful if not more so. It's easy to take a more leftist stance when you're looking through the lens of being in Korea, but once you leave your views will change unless you are extremely ignorant. Are there "no go zones?" I will say this; the decline in this place in a short space of time is absolutely shocking. To quote the controversial right wing journalist Raheem Kassam, I can categorically tell you that "London is turning into a shit hole."

Offline SteveBruce

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2018, 05:18:53 AM »
it's not London everyone you should be worried about. it's korea. the murder rate is south korea is 5 times higher than that of the UK: for south korea it's 1.1. for the UK it's 0.2. http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/

This is a frivolous example in my opinion. First of all, is it any surprise 64% Koreans feel safe walking at night compared to 77% of Brits? I think this has a lot to do with Korean culture, they are some of the most timid and risk averse people I have ever come across. Additionally, what is the nature of these homicides? I'm willing to bet the majority of these homicides are domestic issues. I have never at any point felt uneasy or intimidated walking around Korea. I don't think I have ever even seen a fight in the 2 years I was there. In Korea, you don't have rival drug gangs running estates. Within 2 weeks of being back I saw someone knocked clean out which I didn't see once during my 2 years in Korea. The homicide rate in Korea may be higher, but the crime here is much more reckless, unpredictable and dangerous. If most of these homicides are alcoholic men strangling their wives, it isn't necessarily going to make me walk around with my head hanging over my shoulder.

Offline didinicks

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2018, 05:25:50 AM »
Very interesting... and sad, indeed.

Offline CDW

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2018, 12:31:05 PM »
"Police officers should be exempt from race discrimination laws in order to target black youths in high crime areas, the  former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has said.

"Trevor Phillips said that 'white liberals' need to stop 'hand-wringing' and admit the truth that the wave of knife crime is black children killing black children....

"Adding: 'So the forlorn attempts by politicians and media to ignore this truth - to avoid "stigmatising" minority communities - has been counterproductive, a hand-wringing dereliction of responsibility.

" 'It might make "right-on" white liberals feel better. But the price of their smugness is an ongoing bloody massacre of black children with a casualty list that seems to lengthen by the day.'....

"He called for high risk zones to be identified and flooded with officers 'using stop-and-search powers as freely as they wish'."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/11/policefighting-knife-violence-should-exempt-race-discrimination/

Do the ends justify the means?

Offline hayleebb87

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2018, 12:43:11 PM »
reading threads like these, it seems to me that all non-americans think america's gun laws are crazy, yet most americans see nothing wrong with their gun laws

Because most non-Americans have a warped view that's based on headlines not experience. America is uneven when it comes to guns. Go to inner cities or trailer parks and its a problem. Go to rural areas or suburbs and lightning is a bigger danger.

And this is why Americans are divided on guns: different threat profiles.

I want to agree with the comment on headlines. I have degrees in both Journalism and Criminal Justice and there is a well known expression in America that "if it bleeds it leads" when it comes to headlines. The more gory or shocking, the more newspapers you sell. Maybe that's because America has many more newspapers than other countries because of its sheer size/individualism? not sure, totally. However, I've studied crime in other countries and the way people view it isn't exactly the same. It's not pushed to the foreground nearly as much. For example, I read a story today about 11 teenagers + 1 adult raping an underage girl (Korean newspaper) and I had to scroll waaaay down to find it. In America, it would be the top headline. That's just how American papers are so it's very easy to assume violence is much more prevalent there than other countries because you see it so often.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2018, 01:14:02 PM »
"Police officers should be exempt from race discrimination laws in order to target black youths in high crime areas, the  former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has said.

"Trevor Phillips said that 'white liberals' need to stop 'hand-wringing' and admit the truth that the wave of knife crime is black children killing black children....

"Adding: 'So the forlorn attempts by politicians and media to ignore this truth - to avoid "stigmatising" minority communities - has been counterproductive, a hand-wringing dereliction of responsibility.

" 'It might make "right-on" white liberals feel better. But the price of their smugness is an ongoing bloody massacre of black children with a casualty list that seems to lengthen by the day.'....

"He called for high risk zones to be identified and flooded with officers 'using stop-and-search powers as freely as they wish'."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/11/policefighting-knife-violence-should-exempt-race-discrimination/

Do the ends justify the means?

Coppers know the best way to reduce knife crime is stop and search but their hands have been tied by 'community leaders' and the government. Hopefully common sense will win out eventually. 

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Murder rate now higher in London than New York.
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2018, 08:38:28 PM »
Here's an interesting take on stop and search from a real policemen, courtesy of 'wasting Police Time' by David Copperfield. summarised

In order for a policemen to stop and search someone in modern Britain, they have to tell the the person the following.

1) grounds for the search
2) objective/purpose for the search
3) Produce warrant card
4) say identity of officer
5) say which station officer is attached to
6) Explain that person is entitled to a copy of search results
7) explain to person the legal power utilised in order to search the person
8) Tell them 'you are detained for the purposes of the search.'

White people are frequently stopped and searched without going through all this rigmarole because generally they don't feel they're being unfairly targeted and will complain less. the chances of a non white person complaining about stop and search is much higher (probably due to media outrage), so to avoid complaints, policemen go through all the steps in detail. The result being Non white people get treated differently and longer than white people and have more to complain about. A vicious circle. 

Why anyone would think that a policeman would choose to stop a non-white person and go through all that hassle and procedure to search them while being accused of racism, because the policemen was actually a racist, rather than because he suspected them of a crime, is beyond me.

 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 09:45:24 AM by eggieguffer »