December 11, 2017, 05:26:17 PM

Author Topic: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"  (Read 1196 times)

Offline StillInKorea

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/30/anne-robinson-says-despair-fragile-modern-women-unable-deal/

UK celebrity Anne Robinson has been lambasted for pointing out that modern women have become hysterical about sexual harassment.

I agree with her. Everything is considered sexual harassment these days, even though women are generally safer than ever. All of the recent scandals have led people to believe that women are being harassed more than ever, which is such a simplistic and foolish assumption. Frankly, I think more genuine abuse is being reported (good) but a lot of things that are nothing more than harmless flirting are being made into a huge drama due to a deluded sense of victimhood amongst modern women.

Discuss.

Offline m.corless

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I haven't heard anyone speaking up say anything to the effect of "This is happening so much more often now, let's deal with this modern issue of society!" The entire point of most of the victims coming forward or advocates speaking out is "This has always been happening, right under all of our noses, let's finally do something about it."

If you can't tell whether your harmless flirting is unwanted or not, you're absolutely part of the problem. And I'm going to take a wild guess and say "unwanted" the majority of the time.

Online JNM

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If you can't tell whether your harmless flirting is unwanted or not, you're absolutely part of the problem.

Bullshit.

*Clearly* let a guy know if you are not receptive to his flirting.

If it persists, THEN that's harassment.

[Edit: ... as is any flirting when you are in a position of authority - somebody's boss, teacher, pastor, etc.]

Flirting is not rape.




« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:25:22 AM by JNM »

Online eggieguffer

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All this talk about harassment and the backlash against any dissenting views like this will change the dynamic between men and women. There will still be douches who overstep the boundaries but men in general will become more timid around women and less likely to make the first move. Women will have to take more of the initiative. That's fine for those who have the confidence but others will start complaining about the lack of alpha males etc..if a 'normal' nice guy sees in the media that saying 'hello'  to a woman he doesn't know on the street is 'harassment' he'll only ever converse with women he's been formally introduced to.

I also heard a female politician say the other day that harassment doesn't happen so much in work places with women bosses, so expect more talk of quotas in the future.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 06:21:56 AM by eggieguffer »

Offline philby1985

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I heard a simple rule the other day that I think is a good way to filter good and bad behaviour. If you would be uncomfortable with another guy saying it to you in prison, then it is probably not ok.

Online eggieguffer

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I heard a simple rule the other day that I think is a good way to filter good and bad behaviour. If you would be uncomfortable with another guy saying it to you in prison, then it is probably not ok.


That's a terrible rule. Any verbal utterance could be a potential threat in prison. It's like saying someone stopping you in a dark alley and asking you for a light is the same as someone asking you for a light in a crowded bar. Though I guess there are some feminists around who would claim all women's daily lives are like living in prison.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 06:29:57 AM by eggieguffer »

Offline Stephensalz

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I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 

The part that was impressive from the video, which makes her claims of harassment seem logical, was the frequency with which different guys were saying hello to her.  It was constant, and I'm sure it gets completely frustrating to girls to walk down the street and constantly have people trying to interact with you.    (and this was NYC, so some of the people weren't the most stable looking folks).  Guys should realize they are not unique in their attempts, and give it a rest.

As an aside, somebody should remake The Notebook and remove all the harassment.  Because women say that behavior is bad, but then a movie comes out where a handsome actor does it and it's the most romantic thing they've ever seen. 

Online Mr C

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Am I the only one who thinks it's unbelievable that anyone ever flirted with Anne Robinson?  She is just a very unpleasant person.

Online #basedcowboyshirt

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I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 


As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

Online JNM

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I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 


As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

I think it might be an urban/rural thing.

Saying "hello" to a stranger in a big city might be a sign of poor mental health.

In a small town, not greating a person (known or unknown) might be considered equally suspect.

Offline AvecPommesFrites

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Re: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 03:56:48 PM »
Agree with JNM.

Imagine this scenario:

1. Ugly man and a pretty woman couple. Comment from a random person to the man: Oh haven't you done well for yourself!  ;D 8) :laugh:


2. Ugly woman and handsome man couple. Comment from a random person to the woman: Oh haven't you done well for yourself!   :shocked: :police: Random person gets there skull kicked in.


What makes salads so funny that people are always laughing and smiling when they are eating them?

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 04:45:29 PM »
I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 


As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

I don't think anyone is denying that some people may find a stranger saying 'hello' to them annoying/unwelcome/uncomfortable etc....  the question is whether this should be defined as 'harassment'.  The dictionary definition would seem to indicate no, unless we want to change the definition.

"In the legal sense, it is behavior that appears to be disturbing or threatening. Sexual harassment refers to persistent and unwanted sexual advances."

There are a lot of things people say or do that I find annoying without thinking of them as harassment or wanting to ban them.

I'm in the middle of a novel written by a female author in 1968 in which she says through the main character after she gets wolf whistled on the street - 'no woman ever really minds being whistled at."  it's interesting that a female writer thought she could speak for all  women and say this back in 1968 and how much has changed since.  It also explains Anne Robinson's attitude to some extent.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 04:56:39 PM by eggieguffer »

Offline Stephensalz

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Re: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2017, 10:44:09 AM »
I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 


As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

I don't think anyone is denying that some people may find a stranger saying 'hello' to them annoying/unwelcome/uncomfortable etc....  the question is whether this should be defined as 'harassment'.  The dictionary definition would seem to indicate no, unless we want to change the definition.

"In the legal sense, it is behavior that appears to be disturbing or threatening. Sexual harassment refers to persistent and unwanted sexual advances."

There are a lot of things people say or do that I find annoying without thinking of them as harassment or wanting to ban them.

I'm in the middle of a novel written by a female author in 1968 in which she says through the main character after she gets wolf whistled on the street - 'no woman ever really minds being whistled at."  it's interesting that a female writer thought she could speak for all  women and say this back in 1968 and how much has changed since.  It also explains Anne Robinson's attitude to some extent.

Thank you Eggie.  Just because someone does something you don't like doesn't mean it's harassment.  Calling everything harassment waters down people who were actually harassed, IMO.  I feel like the boy who cried wolf has a place in this conversation.  When everything is harassment, then the response to a person saying they were harassed is lessened, when real harassment should be dealt with appropriately, there should be no consequences to saying 'hi' to a stranger.  But if they are both called harassment, how can you go about punishing actual harassers?  (and yes, I'm from a small town, and yes it is totally strange to me that saying hello to someone would be considered harassment, as it was commonplace where I was from).

Offline leaponover

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Re: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2017, 03:25:35 PM »
I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 


As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

This was nauseating to read!

Suddenly anything you find irritating is harassment?  In no way is saying hello to someone harassment whether you are irritated by it or not.  If you say, "Please leave me alone" and they keep bothering you that is a different story.  Ugh, why am I even trying to counter this twisted refuse.  I'll give up.

Online Kolao

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Re: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 01:52:22 PM »
Everything seems to be harassment these days, much like everyone who has an opinion you disagree with is a racist. Both words have become so overused as to be nearly meaningless.

I'm so happy to have left the West. It seems like everyone is out looking for things to complain about and most of it is much ado about nothing in my opinion.

I simply cannot come to grips with saying hello to a stranger being perceived as harassment. Saying hello to a stranger multiple times while leering at them through beer goggles is.
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Online kojinsing

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Re: Anne Robinson: "In my day we gave them a slap, and told them to grow up!"
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2017, 02:28:11 PM »
I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 


As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

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