January 17, 2018, 05:03:31 AM

Author Topic: Change to the self defence law?  (Read 674 times)

Offline hangook77

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Change to the self defence law?
« on: January 10, 2018, 10:35:30 PM »
Change to the self defence law?

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/01/356_242213.html

But change may be coming here. Over the past few months, dozens of petitions were posted on the Cheong Wa Dae website to urge the government and the National Assembly to revise the self-defense law.

"The current law is ridiculous," one petitioner wrote. "If the person wants to protect himself within the boundaries of law against a robber with a knife, the person should be able to kick the robber's hand to remove the weapon. This is close to impossible."

The presidential office said it will respond to any petition that gains more than 200,000 signatures within a month.

Offline Chinguetti

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 10:48:10 PM »
I hope this eventually comes to fruition. The current self defense law (and a lack of victims' rights and protection) is one of the biggest problems I have about this country.

I'd love to hear talks about good samaritan laws resuming again, too. I remember reading a while back that a group or politician had been working on drawing up something along those lines, but it kind of got quietly swept under a rug and nothing came of it.

Offline CO2

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 12:28:04 AM »
Yeah, if some **** starts pushing me around, and threatening me, I should be allowed to knock him the F out. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Obviously when they're down you don't beat them to a pulp, but if you start shit with someone, you can't expect not to get punched in the nose it the full force of whoever you're messing with.

Offline Elegy

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 07:52:50 AM »
Yeah, if some **** starts pushing me around, and threatening me, I should be allowed to knock him the F out. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Obviously when they're down you don't beat them to a pulp, but if you start shit with someone, you can't expect not to get punched in the nose it the full force of whoever you're messing with.

Sure, so long as its reasonably proportional. That's sort of the standard in most places.

If someone comes up to you and says mean things, no, you can't knock him out. If he actually attacks you, okay, force is on the table, go for it.

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 08:53:02 AM »
I hope this eventually comes to fruition. The current self defense law (and a lack of victims' rights and protection) is one of the biggest problems I have about this country.

I'd love to hear talks about good samaritan laws resuming again, too. I remember reading a while back that a group or politician had been working on drawing up something along those lines, but it kind of got quietly swept under a rug and nothing came of it.

Yeah how about the way that if you are walking down the street and see someone beating or murdering someone, if you intervene at all you're likely to get sued for defamation or charged with assault for trying to stop the violence. Or the way that if you see someone lying on the street injured (like from a hit and run) and try to help them, you're very likely to get blamed for the injury. You'd think Koreans would get tired of this but a) a lot of them (far from all) like the idea of being able to act like a dick and b) there is no logic in this country.

Offline shanebarry1986

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 12:07:54 PM »
a) a lot of them (far from all) like the idea of being able to act like a dick

Other than this and a general love of authority, I cannot for the life of me think of any other reasons why someone would oppose an individual's right to defend themselves from harm.

Then again, most Europeans don't think people should have access to the means to defend oneself from a stronger attacker either. Victims are just supposed to be victims, I guess. Victim blaming is a thought crime, but taking measures to not be a victim in the first place is a criminal offense.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 12:49:21 PM »
a) a lot of them (far from all) like the idea of being able to act like a dick

Other than this and a general love of authority, I cannot for the life of me think of any other reasons why someone would oppose an individual's right to defend themselves from harm.

Then again, most Europeans don't think people should have access to the means to defend oneself from a stronger attacker either. Victims are just supposed to be victims, I guess. Victim blaming is a thought crime, but taking measures to not be a victim in the first place is a criminal offense.

Well, the theory behind it is that it is supposed to deter violence by making people cautious of getting into any sort of scrum given that they would both face liability and in many cases, someone actually can defuse the situation by leaving. Like any law, it has its advantages and drawbacks. It's probably good at preventing throwdowns in the firstplace and preventing them from getting excessive, on the other hand we see the failings when people who do have legitimate reason to defend themselves are instead charged with a crime.

Offline shanebarry1986

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 06:47:33 PM »
a) a lot of them (far from all) like the idea of being able to act like a dick

Other than this and a general love of authority, I cannot for the life of me think of any other reasons why someone would oppose an individual's right to defend themselves from harm.

Then again, most Europeans don't think people should have access to the means to defend oneself from a stronger attacker either. Victims are just supposed to be victims, I guess. Victim blaming is a thought crime, but taking measures to not be a victim in the first place is a criminal offense.

Well, the theory behind it is that it is supposed to deter violence by making people cautious of getting into any sort of scrum given that they would both face liability and in many cases, someone actually can defuse the situation by leaving. Like any law, it has its advantages and drawbacks. It's probably good at preventing throwdowns in the firstplace and preventing them from getting excessive, on the other hand we see the failings when people who do have legitimate reason to defend themselves are instead charged with a crime.

But assault and battery laws "prevent throw downs in the first place". Besides, two fellas squaring up to each other are not thinking about the potential legal consequences. If they were, those assault and battery laws would already suffice.

Laws preventing self defense are laws which create victims. "Go to jail, or get raped" is not a choice anyone anyone should have to make.

"Shoot someone in the gut, or get raped" isn't either, but I think it's a choice I'd rather make, tbh.

Offline CO2

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 07:45:54 PM »

Well, the theory behind it is that it is supposed to deter violence by making people cautious of getting into any sort of scrum given that they would both face liability and in many cases, someone actually can defuse the situation by leaving. Like any law, it has its advantages and drawbacks. It's probably good at preventing throwdowns in the firstplace and preventing them from getting excessive, on the other hand we see the failings when people who do have legitimate reason to defend themselves are instead charged with a crime.
Is this........nuance from you? At least a bit?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 09:10:48 AM »

But assault and battery laws "prevent throw downs in the first place". Besides, two fellas squaring up to each other are not thinking about the potential legal consequences. If they were, those assault and battery laws would already suffice.

They might not be, but their friends that grab them and hold them back are.

Quote
Laws preventing self defense are laws which create victims. "Go to jail, or get raped" is not a choice anyone anyone should have to make.

"Shoot someone in the gut, or get raped" isn't either, but I think it's a choice I'd rather make, tbh.

How do you resolve this position with the relative lack of fisticuffs in Korea? Doesn't that mean this place should be like Mogadishu?

Online JNM

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 02:05:00 PM »

But assault and battery laws "prevent throw downs in the first place". Besides, two fellas squaring up to each other are not thinking about the potential legal consequences. If they were, those assault and battery laws would already suffice.

They might not be, but their friends that grab them and hold them back are.

Quote
Laws preventing self defense are laws which create victims. "Go to jail, or get raped" is not a choice anyone anyone should have to make.

"Shoot someone in the gut, or get raped" isn't either, but I think it's a choice I'd rather make, tbh.

How do you resolve this position with the relative lack of fisticuffs in Korea? Doesn't that mean this place should be like Mogadishu?

Part of the lack of fisticuffs is law, part is cultural.

I know that my 9 year old has had to really restrain himself in the face of bullying.

A good physical push-back could end it, and would have back home.


Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Change to the self defence law?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 04:21:35 AM »

But assault and battery laws "prevent throw downs in the first place". Besides, two fellas squaring up to each other are not thinking about the potential legal consequences. If they were, those assault and battery laws would already suffice.

They might not be, but their friends that grab them and hold them back are.

Quote
Laws preventing self defense are laws which create victims. "Go to jail, or get raped" is not a choice anyone anyone should have to make.

"Shoot someone in the gut, or get raped" isn't either, but I think it's a choice I'd rather make, tbh.

How do you resolve this position with the relative lack of fisticuffs in Korea? Doesn't that mean this place should be like Mogadishu?

Part of the lack of fisticuffs is law, part is cultural.

I know that my 9 year old has had to really restrain himself in the face of bullying.

A good physical push-back could end it, and would have back home.

Don't be so sure. Schools tend to take a dim view of any physical violence, even if one party is being bullied. Liability and all that.