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Author Topic: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?  (Read 4559 times)

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2017, 08:18:11 PM »
"Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?"

While directly asking BumperTrumper for answers is a good thing, I don't think he uses this website.  :undecided:  It'd be a bit strange if he did!
This is where gets his NK updates--no fake news here.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2017, 10:44:25 AM »
No, I don't. And that list does more than just say stuff; it's thousands of times more informative than your posts and their silly analogies and links that say the opposite of what you claim.

Facts illuminate.

gogators! look at this list


What's wrong with it? Aside from misrepresenting things (and a few outright lies), the stuff that is true on there lacks  important things- explanations, context, responses to counterarguments, etc. Not to mention that it makes it seem like the world is coming to an end when a lot of the stuff is just 'meh'.

There's two kinds of people-
A) It's wrong because it's a rethuglican list (gogators!)
B) It's wrong because it lacks information, doesn't provide evidence for its conclusion, oversimplifies, ignores counterarguments, etc. While some of the stuff there MIGHT be true, a person cannot accept it on face value.

You know for someone who complains about a lack of critical thinking in Koreans and an education system where people copy, you showed zero critical thinking and all you did was copy.

Online Savant

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2017, 11:04:35 AM »
No, I don't. And that list does more than just say stuff; it's thousands of times more informative than your posts and their silly analogies and links that say the opposite of what you claim.

Facts illuminate.

What's wrong with it? Aside from misrepresenting things (and a few outright lies), the stuff that is true on there lacks  important things- explanations, context, responses to counterarguments, etc. Not to mention that it makes it seem like the world is coming to an end when a lot of the stuff is just 'meh'.

Some of it is true; a lot of it is straight out of an InfoWars/Breitbart wet dream. Facts also reflect on the source. You can easily discount "facts" that come from InfoWars and Breitbart and Fox News.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2017, 11:13:06 AM »

Some of it is true; a lot of it is straight out of an InfoWars/Breitbart wet dream. Facts also reflect on the source. You can easily discount "facts" that come from InfoWars and Breitbart and Fox News.

And therein lies the danger with discounting things simply based on source. You can't say it's ALL lies because as you even admit, some is true. Now, they may (and do) lie more than the BBC or CNN, but none of them are so bad or so good as to always be lying or always telling the truth, just some have greater reliability than others.

That's why you have to supply more than just a list and it's far better (qualitatively) to choose one issue and explore it in depth than just having a list (obviously some exceptions depending on the nature of the discussion, and such lists can be good intros to an in-depth discussion of one or several things on the list).

The other thing I'm getting at, is it's pretty clear that gogators! does not have in-depth knowledge of every single thing on that list. In fact, the majority of things he has at best only passing knowledge of. At that point you're just doing what you complaining about the right-wingers doing: apeing things.

I mean, they guy copy and pasted a jpeg of a list and declared it "insight" (and in his mind this somehow was a trump card that won the debate). Dude we all went to college here, can you imagine doing that in debate class and then carrying on the way he did? For someone who posts so much on here, I really wish he'd step up his game qualitatively. Heck, even Aurata can go in depth on some of his discussions and bust out some history and some original thoughts of his own.

Online Savant

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2017, 11:43:19 AM »

Some of it is true; a lot of it is straight out of an InfoWars/Breitbart wet dream. Facts also reflect on the source. You can easily discount "facts" that come from InfoWars and Breitbart and Fox News.

And therein lies the danger with discounting things simply based on source. You can't say it's ALL lies because as you even admit, some is true. Now, they may (and do) lie more than the BBC or CNN, but none of them are so bad or so good as to always be lying or always telling the truth, just some have greater reliability than others.

That's why you have to supply more than just a list and it's far better (qualitatively) to choose one issue and explore it in depth than just having a list (obviously some exceptions depending on the nature of the discussion, and such lists can be good intros to an in-depth discussion of one or several things on the list).

The other thing I'm getting at, is it's pretty clear that gogators! does not have in-depth knowledge of every single thing on that list. In fact, the majority of things he has at best only passing knowledge of. At that point you're just doing what you complaining about the right-wingers doing: apeing things.

I mean, they guy copy and pasted a jpeg of a list and declared it "insight" (and in his mind this somehow was a trump card that won the debate). Dude we all went to college here, can you imagine doing that in debate class and then carrying on the way he did? For someone who posts so much on here, I really wish he'd step up his game qualitatively. Heck, even Aurata can go in depth on some of his discussions and bust out some history and some original thoughts of his own.

The difference is that in gogators' "list" I know what each point represents and each point can be easily checked for accuracy. Your "list" is just a bullet-point of random words strewn together and can be attempted to be construed into some rational thought that is akin to a Glenn Beck blackboard of fantasy ideas.

Your list posting is this: Jon Stewart's epic take down of Glenn Beck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU22QEclVQo



Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2017, 12:12:53 PM »
The difference is that in gogators' "list" I know what each point represents and each point can be easily checked for accuracy. Your "list" is just a bullet-point of random words strewn together and can be attempted to be construed into some rational thought that is akin to a Glenn Beck blackboard of fantasy ideas.

Your list posting is this: Jon Stewart's epic take down of Glenn Beck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU22QEclVQo

gogators! list is better in the way that a Cracker Jack compass is better for finding directions than a placemat map from a diner. They're both awful.

Put it this way- most of us when we're trying to be insightful at least go to CNN or BBC or the Guardian or something like that. Some of us even go to The Nation or The Atlantic. Some might even go further in depth. gogators! tried to pass off a jpeg as "insight".

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2017, 12:33:11 PM »
No, I don't. And that list does more than just say stuff; it's thousands of times more informative than your posts and their silly analogies and links that say the opposite of what you claim.

Facts illuminate.

gogators! look at this list


What's wrong with it? Aside from misrepresenting things (and a few outright lies), the stuff that is true on there lacks  important things- explanations, context, responses to counterarguments, etc. Not to mention that it makes it seem like the world is coming to an end when a lot of the stuff is just 'meh'.

There's two kinds of people-
A) It's wrong because it's a rethuglican list (gogators!)
B) It's wrong because it lacks information, doesn't provide evidence for its conclusion, oversimplifies, ignores counterarguments, etc. While some of the stuff there MIGHT be true, a person cannot accept it on face value.

You know for someone who complains about a lack of critical thinking in Koreans and an education system where people copy, you showed zero critical thinking and all you did was copy.
LOL.

My critical thinking was in posting a list of facts that show what your bud donnie's doing to the environment. Unable to rebut that, you've attacked not those facts but the way they were presented. And of course aded another of your apples to oranges analogies.

but I'll throw you a bone and give you the simple explanation you need (like so many Korean students):

trumpy announced the passing of a bill that opens up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, one of our most cherished and sacred places, to the highest bidderóall in the name of funding irresponsible tax breaks and subsidizing the oil and gas industry. The 19.6 million-acre Refuge, one of the last intact wild landscapes on Earth, is a vast swath of mountains and tundra that is publicly owned and culturally and ecologically significant.

One of the most important areas of this land is being handed over to the fossil fuel industry.

The decision to open up the Refuge to oil leasing runs directly counter to the wishes of a majority of Americans, who know that once the roads and pipelines are built, the wells and drilling pads are dug, and oil is pumped and spilled, we wonít be able to restore the natural beauty of this majestic place.

And it make it really clear for you, here's some pics:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/climate/arctic-drilling-anwr.html

Illuminating enough for you?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2017, 02:05:20 PM »
My critical thinking was in posting a list of facts that show what your bud donnie's doing to the environment. Unable to rebut that, you've attacked not those facts but the way they were presented. And of course aded another of your apples to oranges analogies.

Your critical thinking was in copying and pasting a link to a jpeg?  :rolleyes:

I'm attacking the way they were presented because that's the issue that started this- the fact that your posts lack substance and amount to little more than 102 sentence drive-by statements, usually filled with insults. Now, you've been on here a while, and I'm all for people posting what they please including the sophomoric and offensive, but it was starting to reach the point of can you at least post something original/non-insulting or just piss off, because you aren't contributing anything. Heck, you aren't even funny.

Quote
trumpy announced the passing of a bill that opens up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, one of our most cherished and sacred places, to the highest bidderóall in the name of funding irresponsible tax breaks and subsidizing the oil and gas industry. The 19.6 million-acre Refuge, one of the last intact wild landscapes on Earth, is a vast swath of mountains and tundra that is publicly owned and culturally and ecologically significant.

Well you picked one of the things I'm lukewarm at best on.

As far as the environmental stuff, whatever. It's the same as any other drilling operation. The issue is are the companies going to be safe about it and will they be held accountable for any failures. Also, to what degree do we risk significant damage to the environment vs. other places. Frankly, all things considered, I'd rather we drill in deserts/tundras than in the oceans/closer to home. At least there's only sparse vegetation and wildlife.

That being said, estimates are that this wouldn't significantly reduce prices (it would reduce oil prices a very small amount) and thus it seems, the utility of this for the citizens of the U.S. as a whole would be negligible UNLESS it was accompanied by offshore platforms being closed down, which it won't be.

Maybe it was a viable plan during the heyday of $5/gallon gasoline, but not now.

At the end of the day, cheap energy is the lifeblood of broad prosperity. Without cheap energy people can't afford to travel to work and get better jobs, they can't heat their homes, everything is more expensive. We have to ensure a continuous supply.



Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2017, 02:53:46 PM »
My critical thinking was in posting a list of facts that show what your bud donnie's doing to the environment. Unable to rebut that, you've attacked not those facts but the way they were presented. And of course aded another of your apples to oranges analogies.

Your critical thinking was in copying and pasting a link to a jpeg?  :rolleyes:

I'm attacking the way they were presented because that's the issue that started this- the fact that your posts lack substance and amount to little more than 102 sentence drive-by statements, usually filled with insults. Now, you've been on here a while, and I'm all for people posting what they please including the sophomoric and offensive, but it was starting to reach the point of can you at least post something original/non-insulting or just piss off, because you aren't contributing anything. Heck, you aren't even funny.

Quote
trumpy announced the passing of a bill that opens up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, one of our most cherished and sacred places, to the highest bidderóall in the name of funding irresponsible tax breaks and subsidizing the oil and gas industry. The 19.6 million-acre Refuge, one of the last intact wild landscapes on Earth, is a vast swath of mountains and tundra that is publicly owned and culturally and ecologically significant.

Well you picked one of the things I'm lukewarm at best on.

As far as the environmental stuff, whatever. It's the same as any other drilling operation. The issue is are the companies going to be safe about it and will they be held accountable for any failures. Also, to what degree do we risk significant damage to the environment vs. other places. Frankly, all things considered, I'd rather we drill in deserts/tundras than in the oceans/closer to home. At least there's only sparse vegetation and wildlife.

That being said, estimates are that this wouldn't significantly reduce prices (it would reduce oil prices a very small amount) and thus it seems, the utility of this for the citizens of the U.S. as a whole would be negligible UNLESS it was accompanied by offshore platforms being closed down, which it won't be.

Maybe it was a viable plan during the heyday of $5/gallon gasoline, but not now.

At the end of the day, cheap energy is the lifeblood of broad prosperity. Without cheap energy people can't afford to travel to work and get better jobs, they can't heat their homes, everything is more expensive. We have to ensure a continuous supply.
Talk, talk, talk. What's your position on a major part of trumped up's agenda?

As for your comments RE my posting, if you don't like them just move on. Or continue to play hall monitor and be rightfully ignored.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2018, 11:59:31 AM »
Quote
Under Trump, offshoring by top federal contractors has increased by 250%.

Thereís no better example of Trump's failure to stop offshoring than Carrier. This week, hundreds of workers will clock out of the Carrier plant in Indianapolis for the last time.

Trump hasnít lifted a finger to save their jobs ó or anyone elseís.

The rich get richer and the poor and middle class who voted for trump keep getting screwed.


Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2018, 12:06:23 PM »
And if you have a job and are disabled, look at what trump's DOJ just did:

Quote
Attorney general and racist Keebler elf Jefferson Sessions gave people with disabilities something worse than a lump of coal for Christmasóhe rescinded 10 documents offering guidance on disability rights. One, from 2016, protected people with disabilities from exploitation on the job and ensured that they had the chance to move into integrated job settings if able to do so. Thereís real money in taking away these rights, David Perry reports at Pacific Standard:

    Segregated workshops are legally allowed to pay disabled workers pennies per hour. They are incredibly lucrative, and often their owners use their wealth to buy political access. But in 2015, a class action suit in Oregon (Lane v. Brown) and a consent decree in Rhode Island resulted in the new DOJ guidelines: Basically, everyone deserves an opportunity to work in integrated settings. That's only possible if education systems, workplaces, and housing providers play by the same sets of rules governing the public and private mechanisms of disability rights work together.

So repealing the guideline makes it more likely that the wealthy owners of segregated workshops can continue to profit from the labor of underpaid disabled workers, blocking them from moving toward integrated work.

Offline Chester Jim

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2018, 09:04:38 PM »
Cutting the corporate tax will increase jobs.  The Dow is at 250000, the economy is on pace to have 3 percent growth something never before done under Obama.   Each percentage point represents job growth. 
 I donít think the economy is where you want to attack him, unless you are okay with lying and trying to fool stupid people to make the, angry,  you seem to have no trouble doing .
Bonzai!

Offline Rumbledy Hump

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2018, 08:00:02 AM »
Cutting the corporate tax will increase jobs.  The Dow is at 250000, the economy is on pace to have 3 percent growth something never before done under Obama.   Each percentage point represents job growth. 
 I donít think the economy is where you want to attack him, unless you are okay with lying and trying to fool stupid people to make the, angry,  you seem to have no trouble doing .

Wall Street means relatively little in job creation. And it means nothing for wage growth. It doesn't matter that we're at full employment when wages are stagnant. Average people who laud the economy are fulfilling the old poor white people voting against themselves stereotype.

Besides, Trump inherited this economy. Too bad his boneheaded tax plan will further balloon the deficit, making it impossible for us to climb out of the next recession without borrowing more and more.
But how do I know what to lick and what not to lick?

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2018, 09:50:48 AM »
Cutting the corporate tax will increase jobs.  The Dow is at 250000, the economy is on pace to have 3 percent growth something never before done under Obama.   Each percentage point represents job growth. 
 I donít think the economy is where you want to attack him, unless you are okay with lying and trying to fool stupid people to make the, angry,  you seem to have no trouble doing .
The stock market is not the economy. Wages are still lagging.

The great majority of corporations said they would use the tax cuts for things other than hiring and capital investments--paying down debt and stock buybacks. Hiring was down in December, the opposite of what you're wrongfully claiming.

The new tax laws could also spur mergers, which typically lead to downsizing.

You, like your role model trump, continue to be woefully misinformed. Are you an F-52 pilot?

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2018, 09:03:45 PM »
Quote
Today, the profitable H.V.A.C. company, owned by United Technologies Corporationóa federal contractor whose climate, controls, and security division, of which Carrier is a part, reported three billion dollars in operating profit in 2016óis letting go of more than two hundred employees in its second and final wave of Indiana-based layoffs, which began last July. In total, the company will be laying off more than five hundred employees as it moves manufacturing jobs to Monterrey, Mexico. Many of those employees voted for Donald Trump, who made saving Carrierís ďbig, beautiful plantĒ one of his most repeated campaign promises. It was part of his broader preŽlection claim that ďA Trump Administration will stop the jobs from leaving America.Ē

The only promises trumpy has kept are to the rich. And to the racists.

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2018, 09:19:00 AM »
Quote
Under the new law, income made by American companiesí overseas subsidiaries will face United States taxes that are half the rate applied to their domestic income, 10.5 percent compared with the new top corporate rate of 21 percent. [...]

What could be more dangerous for American workers, economists said, is that the bill ends up creating a tax break for manufacturers with foreign operations. Under the new rules, beyond the lower rate, companies will not have to pay United States taxes on the money they earn from plants or equipment located abroad, if those earnings amount to 10 percent or less of the total investment.

Saving jobs by making it easier to outsource them--is this he new trickle down economic theory from trumpy and the repugs?

Offline Chester Jim

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2018, 11:28:41 PM »
Cutting the corporate tax will increase jobs.  The Dow is at 250000, the economy is on pace to have 3 percent growth something never before done under Obama.   Each percentage point represents job growth. 
 I donít think the economy is where you want to attack him, unless you are okay with lying and trying to fool stupid people to make the, angry,  you seem to have no trouble doing .

Wall Street means relatively little in job creation. And it means nothing for wage growth. It doesn't matter that we're at full employment when wages are stagnant. Average people who laud the economy are fulfilling the old poor white people voting against themselves stereotype.

Besides, Trump inherited this economy. Too bad his boneheaded tax plan will further balloon the deficit, making it impossible for us to climb out of the next recession without borrowing more and more.
Im sorry.   SO the Dow is a measure of the value of mnayn companies worth.  The top what is it 30 companies? You donít think this has any effect on hiring?     You do think the wages will increase?     
Boneheaded tax plan?   Itís a much better tax plan.    We have to lower spending.  Even if we just stay even with spending then We are golden.        Big government is the problem.   If you donít have a healthy distrust of the government then you have no idea about hsitory .
Bonzai!

Offline gogators!

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2018, 10:50:29 AM »
Cutting the corporate tax will increase jobs.  The Dow is at 250000, the economy is on pace to have 3 percent growth something never before done under Obama.   Each percentage point represents job growth. 
 I donít think the economy is where you want to attack him, unless you are okay with lying and trying to fool stupid people to make the, angry,  you seem to have no trouble doing .

Wall Street means relatively little in job creation. And it means nothing for wage growth. It doesn't matter that we're at full employment when wages are stagnant. Average people who laud the economy are fulfilling the old poor white people voting against themselves stereotype.

Besides, Trump inherited this economy. Too bad his boneheaded tax plan will further balloon the deficit, making it impossible for us to climb out of the next recession without borrowing more and more.
Im sorry.   SO the Dow is a measure of the value of mnayn companies worth.  The top what is it 30 companies? You donít think this has any effect on hiring?     You do think the wages will increase?     
Boneheaded tax plan?   Itís a much better tax plan.    We have to lower spending.  Even if we just stay even with spending then We are golden.        Big government is the problem.   If you donít have a healthy distrust of the government then you have no idea about hsitory .
That's some real misinformed paranoia there jimbo.

Walmart, a Dow Jones company, is laying off 7500 workers. Carrier is laying off workers. AT&T is laying off workers. Others have as well.

This tax cut helps the rich get richer. Any other interpretation is "boneheaded."

Offline Sir-Mark

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Re: Where are the jobs you PROMISED, trump?
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2018, 04:10:29 AM »
Cutting the corporate tax will increase jobs.  The Dow is at 250000, the economy is on pace to have 3 percent growth something never before done under Obama.   Each percentage point represents job growth. 
 I donít think the economy is where you want to attack him, unless you are okay with lying and trying to fool stupid people to make the, angry,  you seem to have no trouble doing .

Wall Street means relatively little in job creation. And it means nothing for wage growth. It doesn't matter that we're at full employment when wages are stagnant. Average people who laud the economy are fulfilling the old poor white people voting against themselves stereotype.

Besides, Trump inherited this economy. Too bad his boneheaded tax plan will further balloon the deficit, making it impossible for us to climb out of the next recession without borrowing more and more.
Im sorry.   SO the Dow is a measure of the value of mnayn companies worth.  The top what is it 30 companies? You donít think this has any effect on hiring?     You do think the wages will increase?     
Boneheaded tax plan?   Itís a much better tax plan.    We have to lower spending.  Even if we just stay even with spending then We are golden.        Big government is the problem.   If you donít have a healthy distrust of the government then you have no idea about hsitory .

First of all, if you want credibility, don't use the Dow Jones. It's value is determined in an absolutely idiotic way.

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/04/18/why-the-dow-jones-industrial-average-is-useless.aspx

It's a great tax plan? The vast majority savings go to big business, and, if you have any idea about history, you would know that very very little ever 'trinkles down.'