June 20, 2018, 12:11:17 AM

Author Topic: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"  (Read 28600 times)

Offline macteacher

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2017, 10:01:14 AM »
Last night I had a chat with the smartest (and I would say most knowledgeable) Korean I know. When I told her about coal plants she was shocked. She was surprised she had never heard about that; she said the news always said the fine dust comes from China. Well, a sizable portion does- heck it even reaches the U.S. (though to a much lesser extent)- but the majority- over 50%- is created domestically. How do Koreans not know about this?

you'd be surprised at the amount of things koreans are ignorant about in their politics. none of my korean friends seemed to care about park's admin pretty much completely shutting out the foreign press from her admin, nor seeming to care when that japanese dude was charged for his reporting on sewol.

but honestly turning a blind eye exists everywhere. i get weirded out though when all my students say "smog is from china" like some kind of mantra when there are things to also be critical here.

Offline TheEnergizer

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2017, 03:10:30 PM »
Ironically china may be a better place to live going forward. Gone are the days of prioritising economic growth over preservation of the environment.

Beijing pollution: Police force to combat toxic smog
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-38545649

In contrast the Koreans are firing up the coal plants. They seem to have a cavalier attitude towards the environment (my guess - I've not been there in 5 years)

In China public sentiment is very much against increasing pollution now.

They are cleaning up big time.

Lol what are you talking about?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-07/china-coal-power-generation-capacity-may-rise-19-in-5-year-plan


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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2017, 11:32:47 PM »
i get weirded out though when all my students say "smog is from china" like some kind of mantra when there are things to also be critical here.

A lot is from China...but...it's less than half the total amount. Pollution does travel far, sadly.

http://aqicn.org/map/southkorea

Ulleungdo- a small island 120km from the coastline- now has an air pollution level quadruple that of New York City, the economic capital of the world.

I wonder how much of Japan's air pollution is is due to South Korea. Scroll east and you can see the areas geographically further away tend to have lower readings.

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2017, 09:30:21 PM »
Korea is last in the OECD in renewable energy use. And it's not catching up anytime soon.

Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2017, 04:38:28 AM »
We had warmer weather for a while and the air was the worst quality.  Now it's the coldest, it's been in a while.  It's almost Canadian cold for a day or so.  (Almost with the wind chills factored in.)  So, the air quality has improved somewhat. 

http://aqicn.org/map/southkorea#@g/37.7404/126.7088/5z


Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2017, 04:40:12 AM »
Anyone back home who bitches about air quality and emissions needs a good slap upside the head.  You see how clean the air quality is in North America compared to here.  (Well, maybe not Mexico as much.)

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2017, 08:10:40 AM »
Actually, people in the West complaining about emissions (if they are complaining to the government) are doing a good thing. The best thing possible. They are keeping the air clean. They are keeping it from getting worse. Asians who don't complain are the reason (or at least part of the reason) air in their country is crap. Could foreigners living in Korea draw attention to the worsening air quality and help bring that issue to the forefront? Possibly. It'd be great if more people around the world put in the work to do that.

Offline MWeb37

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2017, 09:19:35 AM »
Could foreigners living in Korea draw attention to the worsening air quality and help bring that issue to the forefront? Possibly. It'd be great if more people around the world put in the work to do that.

Sadly, foreigner need only understand Korea's unique situation.

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2017, 09:28:10 AM »
SK should take a cure from China:

China may have had one of the world’s dirtiest energy grids, but it has turned that around. In 2016, China installed more solar panels than any nation on earth, more than doubling its solar energy capacity in just one year. It is now the world’s biggest producer of solar energy by capacity, the National Energy Administration announced recently. China is now closing hundreds of coal fired generating plants every year.


https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/09/china-doubled-solar-capacity-2016/

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2017, 01:05:21 PM »
Actually, people in the West complaining about emissions (if they are complaining to the government) are doing a good thing. The best thing possible. They are keeping the air clean. They are keeping it from getting worse. Asians who don't complain are the reason (or at least part of the reason) air in their country is crap. Could foreigners living in Korea draw attention to the worsening air quality and help bring that issue to the forefront? Possibly. It'd be great if more people around the world put in the work to do that.

Air quality in the U.S. has largely improved thanks to the outsourcing of factories to Mexico and China, cheap natural gas from hydraulic fracking (and less coal), low population density thanks to repeated treaty braking and westward expansion/conquest, George W. Bush starting a war in the Mideast that sent petrol prices skyrocketing for a bit and made people actually want to save on gas, and (barely) things like CARB and anti-leaf burning ordinances.

Basically if you want clean air (unintentionally) vote Republican. If you want a lot of nice sounding measures and plans that accomplish little (even though they are ultimately right), vote Democrat.

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2017, 04:44:30 PM »
Actually, people in the West complaining about emissions (if they are complaining to the government) are doing a good thing. The best thing possible. They are keeping the air clean. They are keeping it from getting worse. Asians who don't complain are the reason (or at least part of the reason) air in their country is crap. Could foreigners living in Korea draw attention to the worsening air quality and help bring that issue to the forefront? Possibly. It'd be great if more people around the world put in the work to do that.

Air quality in the U.S. has largely improved thanks to the outsourcing of factories to Mexico and China, cheap natural gas from hydraulic fracking (and less coal), low population density thanks to repeated treaty braking and westward expansion/conquest, George W. Bush starting a war in the Mideast that sent petrol prices skyrocketing for a bit and made people actually want to save on gas, and (barely) things like CARB and anti-leaf burning ordinances.

Basically if you want clean air (unintentionally) vote Republican. If you want a lot of nice sounding measures and plans that accomplish little (even though they are ultimately right), vote Democrat.
Pure balderdash!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2017, 11:21:06 AM »
Mr.DeMartino, you're a smart guy and a lot of the time I agree with you...but not here. Air pollution in America declined under president Obama and that was in large part due to deliberate strategy.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/04/world/crime-legal-world/obama-led-epa-rule-curb-mercury-air-pollution-stands-supreme-court/

Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2017, 09:54:02 PM »
SK should take a cure from China:

China may have had one of the world’s dirtiest energy grids, but it has turned that around. In 2016, China installed more solar panels than any nation on earth, more than doubling its solar energy capacity in just one year. It is now the world’s biggest producer of solar energy by capacity, the National Energy Administration announced recently. China is now closing hundreds of coal fired generating plants every year.


https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/09/china-doubled-solar-capacity-2016/

The problem s solar doesn't produce the energy of coal or oil and doesn't generate at night.  The technology has improved, but still has a way to go.  China is doing this as PR nothing more.  Pollution is higher than ever.  SK has stricter regulations in industry but leaves an exemption for it's own power company.  I suspect China will follow a similar model.  Lee Myung Bak did push for green energy initiatives.  (I remember seeing lots of solar panels go up.)  But the power still mostly came from traditional sources.  If you want a stable energy source that is less polluting and has a minimal effect on economic growth, currently, it's got to be nuclear power. Korea has been building a lot of nuclear and now it's pushing coal.  Not sure why.  Fear of Fukushima? 

Most of the pollution, probably 60% or more still comes from China.  Look at the air readings in China, view the wind direction or air flow, combined with warmer temperature days in fall and winter.  You see a lot of higher readings here and in far western Japan.  You can see the forecasts and how it drifts over from China sometimes.  Of course, Korea still produces a good chunk of it's own.  Just look at the poorly designed roads and slow drivers who sit there idling at red lights taking forever to get going when the light turns green.  Look at the intersection design when one light turns green and the next one turns red.  Lots of idling and cars spewing out pollution into the local air.  When an eight lane road should have been built in a new area, they build a 4 lane road that gets backed up and cars idling more pollution out their tailpipes. 

 

Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2017, 09:55:36 PM »
Actually, people in the West complaining about emissions (if they are complaining to the government) are doing a good thing. The best thing possible. They are keeping the air clean. They are keeping it from getting worse. Asians who don't complain are the reason (or at least part of the reason) air in their country is crap. Could foreigners living in Korea draw attention to the worsening air quality and help bring that issue to the forefront? Possibly. It'd be great if more people around the world put in the work to do that.

I hardly think you can compare air there to air over here.  Even a modest rise in pollution in a few places would still be a fraction of what it is over here.  People think the air is bad back home need to pull their heads out of the sand. 

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2017, 12:05:09 PM »
Well don't you think people deserve to breathe clean air rather than just somewhat clean air? True, the United States and Canada have much purer air than South Korea...but that's no reason to let it get worse. That's like saying, "Ha, you think Korea is bad now? That's nothing compared to 18th century London!" Guess what? Air should not be damaging at all to breathe. That's what we should strive for. Just because something is / was worse somewhere else doesn't excuse it being bad now. Incidentally, I just saw this:

S. Korea Report Largest Number Air Pollution Deaths in OECD

http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/news_In_detail.htm?No=125378

Quote
The report shows that South Korea’s air quality is excessively bad, compared to others in advanced countries.

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2017, 12:08:56 PM »
Well don't you think people deserve to breathe clean air rather than just somewhat clean air? True, the United States and Canada have much purer air than South Korea...but that's no reason to let it get worse. That's like saying, "Ha, you think Korea is bad now? That's nothing compared to 18th century London!" Guess what? Air should not be damaging at all to breathe. That's what we should strive for. Just because something is / was worse somewhere else doesn't excuse it being bad now. Incidentally, I just saw this:

S. Korea Report Largest Number Air Pollution Deaths in OECD

http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/news_In_detail.htm?No=125378

Quote
The report shows that South Korea’s air quality is excessively bad, compared to others in advanced countries.

Your unbridled optimism can be grating sometimes but you're right on this one.  ;D

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2017, 12:37:47 PM »
Unbridled optimism? I'm surprised you say that; I feel like I'm too negative at times. I'm a realist is what I'd say; at least I try to be.

I just saw something interesting:

http://aqicn.org/city/newyork

For a major city, NYC's air quality is quite good. A reading of 20 (what it is now) is about one fourth of what I typically see in Seoul and other cities in South Korea.

But..New York City did not always have air so clean.

Great article in the New York Times today:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/nyregion/new-york-city-smog.html

The sad part is this:

Quote
Today, the future and mission of the E.P.A. are in doubt as President Trump is reported to be calling for the agency’s budget to be cut by 24 percent, a reduction of more than $2 billion. Mr. Trump has also instructed the agency to undo certain regulations protecting waterways. He is expected to issue an order reversing rules to curb planet-warming gases from coal-fired power plants.

Trump's going to push for a $53 billion increase in military spending and to pay for that will try to cut that much from domestic program spending. That's his plan anyways. I really wish I could doing something to fight back against that. I'm actually thinking about what I could do now. And protesting against pollution in Korea would be an honorable thing to do, too.

Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2017, 12:29:30 PM »
Mr.DeMartino, you're a smart guy and a lot of the time I agree with you...but not here. Air pollution in America declined under president Obama and that was in large part due to deliberate strategy.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/04/world/crime-legal-world/obama-led-epa-rule-curb-mercury-air-pollution-stands-supreme-court/

Air pollution declined because of the clean air act in the 1970's.  Air was pretty clean in the 90's and 2000's.  These additional measures of Obama were and are unneccesary.  They are merely job killers and that's it.  If anyone wants air like that New York article in the 1960's or before or like CHina now, they need their head examined.  Air like in the 1990's or 2000's where the pollution was either the same or only a little more than now, but with more jobs, ok. 

Offline gagevt

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2017, 01:33:06 PM »
I think it's the hidden coal plants and random factories throughout the country's interior. They are hidden in rural parts, in the mountains and valleys.
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Offline kobayashi

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #79 on: March 06, 2017, 02:00:00 PM »
China is trying to improve the quality of its air while korea is moving more towards coal-powered energy, so the air quality here is worsening. and it's only going to get worse, and they won't be able to blame china for much longer.

i really think it's time that air purifiers were made mandatory in classrooms here. although probably wouldn't help since the windows are always left wide open anyway.