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Author Topic: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"  (Read 30069 times)

Offline TheEnergizer

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2016, 11:25:17 PM »
Yeah it is mostly South Korean coal power plants.

Koreans and their government are so full of guff when it comes to talking about pollution. Part of it is that they are nationalists and addicted to face-saving to the point where they refuse to acknowledge any facts that might be embarrassing. Part of it is that they don't care because pollution has been here a long time (it was worse in the 70's and 80's, supposedly, at least in places like Seoul) and they associate it with jobs and progress. I've heard the "the air is so humid in this area" excuse for severe pollution many times. I'm from Florida which is way more humid than Korea and you get clear blue skies every day. LA has very dry air but also has a huge car-happy population in a boxed-in area so it gets smog.

BUT within the last year the Korean government finally made pm2.5 data available (something China did years ago), and you are starting to see articles about the local causes of pollution. But unlike in China it doesn't seem like Koreans care enough about pollution to make it a political issue. And the government is pretty gung-ho about expanding filthy coal power plants here. Even if anyone wanted to do something about pollution, the country is just not set up for environmentalism. Corrupt chaebols control everything, there isn't any real regulatory enforcement, and the media is controlled by the chaebols and the Ministry of Saving Face and Denigrating Foreigners Korean presidency. Koreans complain about a lot of things (but rarely do anything about them) yet pollution doesn't seem like a big priority at all to them.

Car owners are required to get a smog/safety test every 2 years, but if your car is incredibly polluting there's no requirement to do anything about it. The testing site guys will tell you your car sucks and should get repaired, and you don't have to because again there's no enforcement of rules or laws here. I see ordinary cars spewing out massive amounts of black crap all the time.

Yeah mostly BS. Not to mention the bit about coal. Japan has a lot of coal powered plants as well, yet air quality is better because of it's distance from mainland China (although they can get some bad days as well)

It's very easy to check on the air quality site where the bad air is coming from. It's very easy to predict as the AQ goes up and down depending on the wind direction. Anytime the wind is blowing from the south, the air is fine. As soon as it shifts to coming from the west, the AQ gets terrible.

Hell just checking right now, most of the eastern part of Korea is in the green with large cities like Busan and Seoul in the low yellow. Yet even these areas suddenly go into the red on certain days.

I've been here since 2009, and from 2009-2011, the air was not this bad at all. Old timers here since 2003 have told me the same thing. Korea's air is not pristine by any means, but when the air gets into the reds and oranges, it's from China.

For most of the pollution to be coming from Korea (seeing as it's a peninsula) the wind would have to be constantly blowing inland. There's lots of problems with the report in the OP that's been pointed out before.

LOL

Here we go...If you want to compare Korea and Japan you should not make 3rd grade arguments.  Korea's coal plants are older, less efficient,larger capacity power plants. Most of them are 2x and 3x larger than Japan's coal plants. The largest Korean Coal plant on this list has a capacity of 5,080 MW and only one of Japan's coal plants is over 4,000MW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Korea

Also Japan's air quality will not be better if they build more coal plants.
Quote
Plans by Japan to build dozens of coal-fired power stations will cause at least 10,000 premature deaths, according to a study, as the country struggles to fulfil its climate change obligations five years after the Fukushima disaster closed down almost all of its nuclear plants
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/17/japans-coal-fired-plants-to-cause-thousands-of-early-deaths-greenpeace

Your argument is completely flawed. If you have any articles or data to back up your amazing critical thinking skills and analysis on this subject it would be more appreciated. lol Who cares how long you have been here. Length of residency does not equate to increased intelligence.
But if you think you can help NASA scientists complete their study by all means. =)

Well, the most commonly linked article states that most of the pollution is generated within Korea. Agreed. But what it fails to mention is the level. Korea's baseline days are green or yellow generated by its own factories. However, when the air gets terrible (into the orange and red), it is from China. You can check the forecast here:

http://aqicn.org/forecast/incheon/

Early this week, yellows and greens, yet on Thursday, a sudden spike into very unhealthy levels. Why? Because looking at the wind pattern, it is bringing air from the north in China down to Korea. No one is denying Korea isn't generating its own pollution. But the levels are not enough to bring the air into the very unhealthy red and purples that we see sometimes.


Online JNM

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 07:29:07 AM »
If NASA is looking into it, they are wasting time and money.   

If they just read what is posted here they could save thousands!


Offline gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2016, 12:31:07 PM »
It's all the fault of Volkswagen diesels. Thank God Korean authorities discovered VW's ruse.  :wink:

Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2016, 02:04:51 PM »
Flooding vast amounts of land for growing rice is also a huge factor as that water gets evaporated and adds to the haze, the pollution gets trapped in the molecules of H20 and keeps the pollution from clearing.

Rice does grow well in a humid climate.  Flooding the fields and combined with the humdiity in the air, it seems to support certain plants like rice.  That's why rice is also grown in the deep south.  The air is humid, but far less polluted. 

But, this part of the world, like the deep south of the US does get a lot of humid weather.  Here, there is also no wind during many times of the year.  This thick air traps many pollutants in.  Also, makes it bad in the winter many days when the humidity and foggish days trap it in too.  Korea needs more winds to blow this $h!t away.  It can be a beautiful country when it's clear and with a full breeze.  Add in many yellow dust and whitish haze and much of spring and summer is yucky.  Happens some days with winter too.  But autumn seems the clearest with winter being mixed.  Some winter days are clear and cool with bright blue skies.  Others have that whitish damp humidity that traps in everything from coal plants to car exhaust fumes. 

Let me add something about car exhaust fumes, if folks would quit waiting and idoling at red lights for so long after they turn green, there'd be less exhaust going into the atmosphere.  The cars sit there and wait and wait and wait and then slowly drive at 20 km/hr or so.  Wastes so much gas over the course of a month and puts more pollution into the air.  Also makes it take a long time to drive short distances.  Never mind the inefficient winding meandering bus routes instead of having more direct routes which would make people take the bus more instead.  (Well, these rules above probably only apply to the mid sized and smaller metropolitan cities.  Not so sure about Seoul, though.) 

Either way, the weather here do suck a lot because of it for much of the year.  Last Sunday had great blue skies though.  Here are some pics from last weekend.  The country is beautiful when it's actually clear and dry.  (October is the best month here.  Take a sick day and go into the country and take a long weekend or two.)




Offline Teemowork

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2016, 03:24:59 PM »
It's all the fault of Volkswagen diesels. Thank God Korean authorities discovered VW's ruse.  :wink:

That's why you buy a Tesla =P

Too bad Korea would probably not allow Tesla into their country.  Unlike what Elon Musk is trying to do in America, continuously building solar farms and charging stations all over the U.S. to push towards a purely renewable energy system, but such a system might not be possible in Korea.

Portugal was able to do it for a few days.  100% only renewable energy:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/18/portugal-runs-for-four-days-straight-on-renewable-energy-alone

But at least from what I have gathered.  The most efficient solar panels in the world are about 22% efficient.  However, this requires that adequate amount of sunlight be available to hit that efficiency.  Unfortunately for Korea though, a lot of the times in the year, is all BUT clear and sunny skies.  Thus, within the same area of solar panels, Korea's position on the globe and geological layout doesn't allow it to harvest very much solar power compared to other countries.  It's still possible of course, it's just Korea is going to have to work harder at it.

Offline gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2016, 05:15:22 PM »
Flooding vast amounts of land for growing rice is also a huge factor as that water gets evaporated and adds to the haze, the pollution gets trapped in the molecules of H20 and keeps the pollution from clearing.

Rice does grow well in a humid climate.  Flooding the fields and combined with the humdiity in the air, it seems to support certain plants like rice.  That's why rice is also grown in the deep south.  The air is humid, but far less polluted. 

But, this part of the world, like the deep south of the US does get a lot of humid weather.  Here, there is also no wind during many times of the year.  This thick air traps many pollutants in.  Also, makes it bad in the winter many days when the humidity and foggish days trap it in too.  Korea needs more winds to blow this $h!t away.  It can be a beautiful country when it's clear and with a full breeze.  Add in many yellow dust and whitish haze and much of spring and summer is yucky.  Happens some days with winter too.  But autumn seems the clearest with winter being mixed.  Some winter days are clear and cool with bright blue skies.  Others have that whitish damp humidity that traps in everything from coal plants to car exhaust fumes. 

Let me add something about car exhaust fumes, if folks would quit waiting and idoling at red lights for so long after they turn green, there'd be less exhaust going into the atmosphere.  The cars sit there and wait and wait and wait and then slowly drive at 20 km/hr or so.  Wastes so much gas over the course of a month and puts more pollution into the air.  Also makes it take a long time to drive short distances.  Never mind the inefficient winding meandering bus routes instead of having more direct routes which would make people take the bus more instead.  (Well, these rules above probably only apply to the mid sized and smaller metropolitan cities.  Not so sure about Seoul, though.) 

Either way, the weather here do suck a lot because of it for much of the year.  Last Sunday had great blue skies though.  Here are some pics from last weekend.  The country is beautiful when it's actually clear and dry.  (October is the best month here.  Take a sick day and go into the country and take a long weekend or two.)
Don't forget waiting at tolls--get that hi-pass.

Offline gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2016, 05:17:41 PM »
It's all the fault of Volkswagen diesels. Thank God Korean authorities discovered VW's ruse.  :wink:

That's why you buy a Tesla =P

Too bad Korea would probably not allow Tesla into their country.  Unlike what Elon Musk is trying to do in America, continuously building solar farms and charging stations all over the U.S. to push towards a purely renewable energy system, but such a system might not be possible in Korea.

Portugal was able to do it for a few days.  100% only renewable energy:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/18/portugal-runs-for-four-days-straight-on-renewable-energy-alone

But at least from what I have gathered.  The most efficient solar panels in the world are about 22% efficient.  However, this requires that adequate amount of sunlight be available to hit that efficiency.  Unfortunately for Korea though, a lot of the times in the year, is all BUT clear and sunny skies.  Thus, within the same area of solar panels, Korea's position on the globe and geological layout doesn't allow it to harvest very much solar power compared to other countries.  It's still possible of course, it's just Korea is going to have to work harder at it.
Tesla is coming: http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/Article.aspx?aid=3017054

Gasian

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2016, 05:53:41 PM »
If NASA is looking into it, they are wasting time and money.   

If they just read what is posted here they could save thousands!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Online Life Improvement

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2016, 07:37:52 PM »
NASA Reveals A List Of The Best Air-Cleaning Plants For Your Home
http://www.boredpanda.com/best-air-filtering-houseplants-nasa/

Offline Lurch

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2016, 08:08:55 AM »
Let me add something about car exhaust fumes, if folks would quit waiting and idoling at red lights for so long after they turn green, there'd be less exhaust going into the atmosphere.

They make up for the slow starts on green by continuing to go through the light well after it's turned red.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2016, 09:56:47 AM »

That's why you buy a Tesla =P


Sure, I've got 100 grand lying around to blow on a car.

A Tesla at the moment is about as relevant to ordinary people as a small yacht.

Online kyndo

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2016, 10:10:37 AM »
That's why you buy a Tesla =P
Sure, I've got 100 grand lying around to blow on a car.
A Tesla at the moment is about as relevant to ordinary people as a small yacht.
Well, Teslas start at around $72,000 now, but point taken.

Offline pkjh

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2016, 01:10:56 PM »

That's why you buy a Tesla =P


Sure, I've got 100 grand lying around to blow on a car.

A Tesla at the moment is about as relevant to ordinary people as a small yacht.
Eventually that price will come down, or inflation will make it cheaper at that price. But at the moment it's still a car for the rich.

Offline Loki88

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2016, 01:14:18 PM »

That's why you buy a Tesla =P


Sure, I've got 100 grand lying around to blow on a car.

A Tesla at the moment is about as relevant to ordinary people as a small yacht.
Eventually that price will come down, or inflation will make it cheaper at that price. But at the moment it's still a car for the rich.

They're releasing a 35k car next year actually.

Offline Loki88

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2016, 01:23:24 PM »
It's all the fault of Volkswagen diesels. Thank God Korean authorities discovered VW's ruse.  :wink:

That's why you buy a Tesla =P

Too bad Korea would probably not allow Tesla into their country.  Unlike what Elon Musk is trying to do in America, continuously building solar farms and charging stations all over the U.S. to push towards a purely renewable energy system, but such a system might not be possible in Korea.

Portugal was able to do it for a few days.  100% only renewable energy:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/18/portugal-runs-for-four-days-straight-on-renewable-energy-alone

But at least from what I have gathered.  The most efficient solar panels in the world are about 22% efficient.  However, this requires that adequate amount of sunlight be available to hit that efficiency.  Unfortunately for Korea though, a lot of the times in the year, is all BUT clear and sunny skies.  Thus, within the same area of solar panels, Korea's position on the globe and geological layout doesn't allow it to harvest very much solar power compared to other countries.  It's still possible of course, it's just Korea is going to have to work harder at it.

Solar panels can hit about 30% efficiency but those are the really expensive not in our median income level type category. 

Canada and the US have the advantage of being big. We can throw up solar panels in the middle of no where and not worry about it and still have enough room left over to grow food, raise livestock and run industry.

The major limitation is not renewable energy production at the moment but storage. Our battery tech is merely innovation on technology that has existed for 100 plus years. Being able to ship and store power efficiently would be a major bonus to renewable energy. If this happened you could imagine countries producing and exporting power in the same way we do other products.

Offline weigookin74

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2016, 01:52:07 PM »
Flooding vast amounts of land for growing rice is also a huge factor as that water gets evaporated and adds to the haze, the pollution gets trapped in the molecules of H20 and keeps the pollution from clearing.

Why do we have haze and whitish skies in late fall winter, parts of spring and some days in summer too?  It's this crap that traps in the pollution.  Also the bulk of this shit comes from effing China. 

http://aqicn.org/forecast/daejeon/

Sure there are some local contributors, but the cold weather days are the best in winter.  Pray for them.  They are the days the air will be clear with blue skies.  I'd say October is usually the best month for blue skies, but 2015 and 2016, it was kind of messed up.  Not sure what the hell was going on. 

Online Life Improvement

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2016, 12:03:49 PM »
Air pollution: worst thing about living in Korea

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2016/12/162_220896.html

Quote
Such a beautiful country continually shrouded in bad air. What a burden for the Korean people and foreigners alike. I also began to hear foreigners complain about Korea's bad air. For many, this was the main reason they left the country.

Air pollution kills an estimated 5.5 million people worldwide per year and causes a whole slew of health problems including respiratory illness, heart disease, strokes and cancer.



donovan

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2016, 12:15:46 PM »
Air pollution: worst thing about living in Korea

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2016/12/162_220896.html

Quote
Such a beautiful country continually shrouded in bad air. What a burden for the Korean people and foreigners alike. I also began to hear foreigners complain about Korea's bad air. For many, this was the main reason they left the country.

Air pollution kills an estimated 5.5 million people worldwide per year and causes a whole slew of health problems including respiratory illness, heart disease, strokes and cancer.

It's something I'm increasingly worried about now that my wife is pregnant. She, not so much for some reason. Maybe it's because when I bring it up with the prenatal care specialist, along with recommendations in terms of reducing out exposure to BPA, she simply says, "Haha. If you worry about that, you wouldn't be able to even use your cell phone!" Thanks doc, very helpful.