June 18, 2018, 03:50:47 PM

Author Topic: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"  (Read 28571 times)

Online donovan

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« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 02:53:53 PM by donovan »

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #161 on: June 13, 2017, 02:49:40 PM »
Until someone suggests sterilizing 3/4ths of the planet, I'll assume that what's being proposed is a bunch of half-ass measures.

And what would you assume of somebody proposing to sterilizing 3/4 of the planet?

If it really is that bad, then drastic steps are needed. I mean, isn't that what the numbers suggest we need to do? Drastically curb our carbon footprint?

Online donovan

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #162 on: June 13, 2017, 03:00:03 PM »
Sure, but I wonder if you could come up with a fair and equitable way to do so. 3,000,000,000 volunteers? Anyone?

Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #163 on: June 13, 2017, 04:22:42 PM »
I probably already said it in this and other topics, but any time Korean civilians or government officials buy into the "China did it" lie, it means that South Korea will never do anything about pollution because they know they can just blame it on China while building coal plants and driving old Korandos that spew out giant plumes of black soot. Plus it saves face for Sparkling Dynamic Korea.

Online Life Improvement

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #164 on: June 21, 2017, 03:56:35 AM »
The candidates' promises regarding pollution are just more they won't keep.

Korea Inc. runs on electricity and oil. That's not going to change anytime soon.

Think of all the promises Park made and how very few she kept. These guys are the same.

Pretty much.  Though Korea can do some things long term like changing the usage of so many diesel vehicles and gradually using more nuclear and natural gas plants for generating electricity.

Moon declares energy shift from nuclear to renewables

President Moon Jae-in on Monday declared an energy paradigm shift away from nuclear and coal, vowing to end all existing plans for new nuclear reactors and phase out outdated facilities.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170619000212

“So far, our country’s energy policy has been focused on low price and efficiency only, thus neglecting the safety of the people or the sustainability of the natural environment,” he said.

Though nuclear energy was an inevitable choice for a country heavily reliant on energy imports, it is now time to move on to a clean energy paradigm, the president said.

A detailed roadmap is yet to be unveiled, but Moon has said last week that the government aims to generate 20 percent of power from clean and renewable sources by 2030, from today’s roughly 5 percent.

South Korea produces 70 percent of its electricity from nuclear reactors (27 percent) and thermal coal (42 percent). Liquefied natural gas accounts for about 20 percent.

Referring to the nuclear meltdown in Japan’s Fukushima in 2011 and the recent set of earthquakes on the Korean Peninsula, Moon warned the audience against the irreversible damages resulting from nuclear accidents.

Online gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #165 on: June 21, 2017, 08:50:56 AM »
The candidates' promises regarding pollution are just more they won't keep.

Korea Inc. runs on electricity and oil. That's not going to change anytime soon.

Think of all the promises Park made and how very few she kept. These guys are the same.

Pretty much.  Though Korea can do some things long term like changing the usage of so many diesel vehicles and gradually using more nuclear and natural gas plants for generating electricity.

Moon declares energy shift from nuclear to renewables

President Moon Jae-in on Monday declared an energy paradigm shift away from nuclear and coal, vowing to end all existing plans for new nuclear reactors and phase out outdated facilities.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170619000212

“So far, our country’s energy policy has been focused on low price and efficiency only, thus neglecting the safety of the people or the sustainability of the natural environment,” he said.

Though nuclear energy was an inevitable choice for a country heavily reliant on energy imports, it is now time to move on to a clean energy paradigm, the president said.

A detailed roadmap is yet to be unveiled, but Moon has said last week that the government aims to generate 20 percent of power from clean and renewable sources by 2030, from today’s roughly 5 percent.

South Korea produces 70 percent of its electricity from nuclear reactors (27 percent) and thermal coal (42 percent). Liquefied natural gas accounts for about 20 percent.

Referring to the nuclear meltdown in Japan’s Fukushima in 2011 and the recent set of earthquakes on the Korean Peninsula, Moon warned the audience against the irreversible damages resulting from nuclear accidents.
Cutting nuclear completely is just pandering to the (mostly) unwarranted fears of his supporters.

Five percent from renewables currently--maybe, but the last I read it was at around 3 percent. Getting to 20 by 2030--who knows?

How much will the government subsidize solar? Will there be solar panels, made in China natch, on every green rooftop? Will they line the Han River with wind turbines? Is blue power ready for prime-time?

Nice speech, but since he's already backsliding on his "unbreakable" promises, I'm skeptical.

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #166 on: June 21, 2017, 12:14:37 PM »
Sure, but I wonder if you could come up with a fair and equitable way to do so. 3,000,000,000 volunteers? Anyone?

I agree its unfair and unequitable and no one would volunteer, but if the survival of the species is dependent upon it...

...either that or this global warming thing isn't the danger that it's been hyped to be.

Online donovan

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #167 on: June 21, 2017, 12:30:41 PM »
Not that it's much of a comfort, but I doubt the human species would go extinct from either climate change or overpopulation. Mass starvation? Societal upheaval? Global scale war? Nuclear catastrophe? All possible if we continue the way we are, but the human species would survive. Forced mass sterilization is preferable to that dim scenario, but it still has its own very distinct dystopian implications and is hardly a (final?) 'solution' anyone should feel consoled by.

Online JNM

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #168 on: June 21, 2017, 12:34:57 PM »
Not that it's much of a comfort, but I doubt the human species would go extinct from either climate change or overpopulation. Mass starvation? Societal upheaval? Global scale war? Nuclear catastrophe? All possible if we continue the way we are, but the human species would survive. Forced mass sterilization is preferable to that dim scenario, but it still has its own very distinct dystopian implications and is hardly a (final?) 'solution' anyone should feel consoled by.

A proposal for mass sterilization would lead to war, and large scale loss of life.

Goal achieved.

Online kyndo

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #169 on: June 21, 2017, 12:47:21 PM »
Not that it's much of a comfort, but I doubt the human species would go extinct from either climate change or overpopulation. Mass starvation? Societal upheaval? Global scale war? Nuclear catastrophe? All possible if we continue the way we are, but the human species would survive. Forced mass sterilization is preferable to that dim scenario, but it still has its own very distinct dystopian implications and is hardly a (final?) 'solution' anyone should feel consoled by.

I think that what most people mean by 'extinction' is really the total collapse of modern civilisation.

The scary part of that is if it ever happens, it will more or less be permanent: the majority of the world's easily accessible fossil fuels, metals, and other important resources will not be available for a reboot. Combine that with the poisoning/irradiating/paving of prime agricultural land, and I doubt that civilisation as we know it will return in the near future.

Online CO2

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #170 on: June 21, 2017, 12:49:06 PM »
Not that it's much of a comfort, but I doubt the human species would go extinct from either climate change or overpopulation. Mass starvation? Societal upheaval? Global scale war? Nuclear catastrophe? All possible if we continue the way we are, but the human species would survive. Forced mass sterilization is preferable to that dim scenario, but it still has its own very distinct dystopian implications and is hardly a (final?) 'solution' anyone should feel consoled by.

I think that what most people mean by 'extinction' is really the total collapse of modern civilisation.

The scary part of that is if it ever happens, it will more or less be permanent: the majority of the world's easily accessible fossil fuels, metals, and other important resources will not be available for a reboot. Combine that with the poisoning/irradiating/paving of prime agricultural land, and I doubt that civilisation as we know it will return in the near future.

Maragret Atwood talked about that in ORyx and Crake. We got better and better at digging deeper as time went on. If we restart, we're totally screwed. You can't just start an iron age, or a stainless steel age. And with all the surface metal gone, you're stuck in the wood/stone age. *shudders*

Online gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #171 on: June 21, 2017, 12:54:05 PM »
I'm confused how extinction became part of the bad air thread.

Online donovan

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #172 on: June 21, 2017, 12:57:38 PM »
Well, wouldn't all those materials still be on the surface, just in the form of wrenches, support beams, mixing bowls, etcetera?

And not that this should be much of a comfort either, but I'm glad to know there are other people out there with minds sounder than mine that feel like this is a very real, if not inevitable threat. John B. McLemore didn't have the mental sturdiness to provide that reassurance in the end.

Online kyndo

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #173 on: June 21, 2017, 02:13:22 PM »
Well, wouldn't all those materials still be on the surface, just in the form of wrenches, support beams, mixing bowls, etcetera?

A lot of metals are in alloys these days, and alloys are strange beasts.
Good luck trying to melt automobile parts in a crude furnace to make chain links or w/e. Probably get asphyxiated by all the byproducts first.  :sad:

Most large cities would be burnt husks if there was ever a prolonged period of neglect. I suspect that a fair number of nuclear power plants would not shut down properly either.

And god only knows what some luckless scavenger might release while foraging:

Online JNM

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #174 on: June 21, 2017, 03:14:54 PM »
I suspect that a fair number of nuclear power plants would not shut down properly either.

This is something I know quite a bit about.

Shutting down the reactor is not a big risk.

There are two independent shutdown systems which are "fail safe".

Usually, one is chemical; a set of pressurized tanks separated from the reactor by a valve that is "power to close".  If power is cut to this valve, it opens, and a chemical is injected into the reactor, stopping the reaction.  Sufficient chemical is used to make sure it is overkill.

The other system is absorber rods, which are held up by a "power to close" clutch.  If power is cut, the rods drop into the core, and absorb neutrons.  Again, the amount of absorption is overkill.

The risk of an unoccupied and nuclear power plant is mostly to local populations... somebody wondering in and picking up a shiny thing and brining it home to the missus.

The real risk, I think, is if people who think they know a little bit about nuclear power decide that they are going to start one up. #howhardcanitbe? 





Online gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #175 on: July 01, 2017, 02:10:31 PM »
Thanks for the info, improvement! People need to be informed.

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #176 on: July 01, 2017, 02:12:05 PM »
Most people appear to have no idea just how dangerous coal is. Fewer still seem to recognize the broader implications that it has for modern economic models.

Have you ever heard of London’s infamous deadly fog? It was a toxic pea soup that, in 1952 alone, killed between 4,000 and 12,000 people and made more than 100,000 sick.

The 1952 event was a seminal crisis in our long struggle with air quality, largely as a result of our use of coal and oil. It’s also is a microcosm for the mistakes of industrialization that we seem intent on repeating.

Recent political narratives have tried to reframe coal as an important part of a “return to greatness”, but it’s arguably one of the single greatest threats to life on the planet as we know it.

A 2007 Scientific American article explained that “fly ash emitted by a power plant - a byproduct from burning coal for electricity - carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy."

In 2009, the Physicians for Social Responsibility detailed how coal emissions cause “asthma, strokes, reduced intelligence, artery blockages, heart attacks, congestive heart failure, cardiac arrhythmias, mercury poisoning, arterial occlusion, and lung cancer”.


http://www.jejuweekly.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=5415

Coal is Korea’s largest source of power. In 2014 it accounted for 39.1% of the country’s energy portfolio. Nuclear was the next largest at 30%.

According to a 2017 article in the Financial Times, Korea currently has 53 coal-powered plants, with plans to construct 20 more in the next five years.

Online gogators!

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #177 on: July 01, 2017, 02:16:38 PM »
Thanks for the info, life improvement! It's smart to stay informed.

Online Life Improvement

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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #178 on: July 01, 2017, 02:33:41 PM »
Check this out:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Top_ten_largest_coal_plants_in_the_world
China and Korea dominate the list.  :cry:


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Re: NASA is analyzing Korean Air to find out "Why is it so polluted?"
« Reply #179 on: July 01, 2017, 02:37:17 PM »
Never have I ever met a Korean who was aware coal is the biggest source of electricity generation in this country. Everyone I tell this to is surprised. Not covered on the Korean news is what I heard. That's why it's important to spread awareness.