November 18, 2017, 08:11:41 PM

Author Topic: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]  (Read 130255 times)

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #580 on: July 19, 2017, 06:04:56 PM »
In relation to those saying get higher quals, I agree, but make sure they are proper quals like an Education degree or equivalent. Go check out salaries in Asia for most jobs where your Masters TEFOL/ Linguistics can be used, and then calculate how long it will take to pay off the fees. Is it really worth it?

"I know teachers who have been working in Korea for decades, and the day they start generating more than 30-40 million won a year in income from their university employer will likely never come. Also, if your friend has or desires a family (i.e. spouse and kids), working in the ESL world isn't something they would be wise to pursue as a life-long pursuit unless they like having a very low budget lifestyle (i.e. small-medium size apartment, inability to save substantial piles of cash for retirement so they retire with dignity, lots of expenses with flying home to visit family, etc). That's why I recommend an M.A. with market value outside of Korea."

Offline jeremyheynen

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #581 on: July 20, 2017, 08:29:44 AM »
I have been reading this post every time there is a new addition, and now feel the need to chime in.  I agree with much of the above, in that the end is near.  This is my last year and will be looking into other possibilities when I return home.  That being said I have found an online company in China, teaching ESL and it's not a great gig, but it supplements my income rather nicely.  I have posted this link on other boards and thought some EPIK teachers with nothing to do in the evenings might want to try this: https://www.DaDaABC.com/teacher/job/

I am in my second year with them and they have been legit. I have been making between 4-5 mil won a month for the past 5 months doing this (putting in a lot of hours, mind you)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 10:03:55 AM by taeyang »

Offline kobayashi

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #582 on: July 20, 2017, 08:36:30 AM »
I have been reading this post every time there is a new addition, and now feel the need to chime in.  I agree with much of the above, in that the end is near.  This is my last year and will be looking into other possibilities when I return home.  That being said I have found an online company in China, teaching ESL and it's not a great gig, but it supplements my income rather nicely.  I have posted this link on other boards and thought some EPIK teachers with nothing to do in the evenings might want to try this: https://www.dadaabc.com/teacher/job/

I am in my second year with them and they have been legit. I have been making between 4-5 mil won a month for the past 5 months doing this (putting in a lot of hours, mind you)

as i've pointed out multiple times before, doing this is an outright violation of the EPIK contracts, as well as your E-2 visa conditions.

there are also a lot of implications for tax that people need to be aware of, and you may find yourself being done for tax evasion either by the korean National Tax Service or else the tax authorities in their home countries.

please, don't encourage people to engage in white collar crime.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 10:09:09 AM by taeyang »

Offline jeremyheynen

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #583 on: July 20, 2017, 08:49:40 AM »
Hahaha  I was expecting a hater to post right away.  I checked with immigration and this is NOT a violation of the E2 VISA as this job has nothing to do with Korean Immigration.  It is a grey area when it comes to Labour law, however.  if you declare it as income here you need to pay taxes on it.  but feel free to continue posting knee-jerk uninformed opinion as fact.

Online z80

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #584 on: July 20, 2017, 09:11:21 AM »
Hahaha  I was expecting a hater to post right away.  I checked with immigration and this is NOT a violation of the E2 VISA as this job has nothing to do with Korean Immigration.  It is a grey area when it comes to Labour law, however.  if you declare it as income here you need to pay taxes on it.  but feel free to continue posting knee-jerk uninformed opinion as fact.

It is a violation of the E2 visa. It is not a grey area.

Offline kobayashi

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #585 on: July 20, 2017, 09:28:35 AM »
Hahaha  I was expecting a hater to post right away.  I checked with immigration and this is NOT a violation of the E2 VISA as this job has nothing to do with Korean Immigration.  It is a grey area when it comes to Labour law, however.  if you declare it as income here you need to pay taxes on it.  but feel free to continue posting knee-jerk uninformed opinion as fact.

so you checked with immigration - the same immigration that you can call 3 different times and get 3 different answers from? the same immigration that issued E-2 visas to those canadians at that 'international school', then deported them for having the wrong visa - that immigration issued in the first place? yeah, great, glad you checked with that immigration  :rolleyes:

and what do you mean "if" you report it as income? if you are here on an E-2 visa you are a resident of korea for tax purposes, which means you have a legal requirement to report that income on your year-end tax settlement as according to korean tax law worldwide income is taxable for people who are korean tax residents. failure to report that income is tax evasion.

and guess what's going to happen when you report it? the NTS is going to see quite easily that you've violated your contract as well as your visa. it's not going to take a genius to see that.

Offline taeyang

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #586 on: July 20, 2017, 10:10:16 AM »
stay on topic please.

any further posts not on topic will be removed, and their posters will be warned.
use google to search the site

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replace 'XXXX' with your search term

Offline NVman

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #587 on: November 09, 2017, 06:00:26 PM »
I'm a former recruiter for English teachers around Seoul. All I can say is that it's already dead right now in Korea.

Offline tomoakleaf

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #588 on: November 14, 2017, 08:02:54 AM »
I'm a former recruiter for English teachers around Seoul. All I can say is that it's already dead right now in Korea.

Can you say more?

Offline Alistair

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #589 on: November 14, 2017, 08:28:20 AM »
This thread has been going on forever and ever.

The truth is that the EPIK program is actually growing in numbers.

For the spring program, there are more vacancies throughout Korea compared to any other period I have seen.  I am a current official recruitment agent of the EPIK program.

Speculation that has been going on like this thread - this is what is damaging the program - because people are believing you.

It simply is not the case.

EPIK is here to stay.  Doors are still open for the spring program; if you haven't applied - you still very much can.

Offline kobayashi

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #590 on: November 14, 2017, 08:58:18 AM »
For the spring program, there are more vacancies throughout Korea compared to any other period I have seen.  I am a current official recruitment agent of the EPIK program.

don't confuse increased vacancies with growing numbers. job cuts continue.

there are increased vacancies due to stagnant wages, even non-monetary benefits like vacation being reduced, increasingly shitty attitudes of co-teachers and schools towards their NETs resulting in much less goodwill from NETs towards their schools (and vice versa), and a whole list of other things i could be here all day talking about.

add in to that all the social problems one encounters living in korea as a foreigner, and people are just beginning to leave for greener pastures. so many people going to china these days because you can earn more money for less teaching hours with more vacation. a lot of people are going back to their home countries. even long-term expats are packing up their families and moving back home. the birth rate is declining which is going to affect all teaching jobs right up to the university level, and there are very few opportunities in korea for foreigners besides teaching.

the tide is turning my friend. if schools want to continue to attract NETs they need to give appropriate pay and vacation, especially since the are increasingly demanding more teaching hours and greater qualifications.

Offline travelinpantsgirl

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #591 on: November 14, 2017, 09:46:57 AM »
For the spring program, there are more vacancies throughout Korea compared to any other period I have seen.  I am a current official recruitment agent of the EPIK program.

don't confuse increased vacancies with growing numbers. job cuts continue.

there are increased vacancies due to stagnant wages, even non-monetary benefits like vacation being reduced, increasingly shitty attitudes of co-teachers and schools towards their NETs resulting in much less goodwill from NETs towards their schools (and vice versa), and a whole list of other things i could be here all day talking about.

add in to that all the social problems one encounters living in korea as a foreigner, and people are just beginning to leave for greener pastures. so many people going to china these days because you can earn more money for less teaching hours with more vacation. a lot of people are going back to their home countries. even long-term expats are packing up their families and moving back home. the birth rate is declining which is going to affect all teaching jobs right up to the university level, and there are very few opportunities in korea for foreigners besides teaching.

the tide is turning my friend. if schools want to continue to attract NETs they need to give appropriate pay and vacation, especially since the are increasingly demanding more teaching hours and greater qualifications.
Exactly this. Korea is not the golden path it once was. Yeah, it used to be cyclical but now it's just in a downward spiral. People don't want to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere with schools that don't really want them with stagnating pay and ridiculous rules of deskwarming and other pedantic rules simply to pacify Kteachers who feel it is not fair that NETs jobs are "easier".
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Offline DivineDimSum

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #592 on: November 14, 2017, 12:15:18 PM »
For the spring program, there are more vacancies throughout Korea compared to any other period I have seen.  I am a current official recruitment agent of the EPIK program.

don't confuse increased vacancies with growing numbers. job cuts continue.

there are increased vacancies due to stagnant wages, even non-monetary benefits like vacation being reduced, increasingly shitty attitudes of co-teachers and schools towards their NETs resulting in much less goodwill from NETs towards their schools (and vice versa), and a whole list of other things i could be here all day talking about.

add in to that all the social problems one encounters living in korea as a foreigner, and people are just beginning to leave for greener pastures. so many people going to china these days because you can earn more money for less teaching hours with more vacation. a lot of people are going back to their home countries. even long-term expats are packing up their families and moving back home. the birth rate is declining which is going to affect all teaching jobs right up to the university level, and there are very few opportunities in korea for foreigners besides teaching.

the tide is turning my friend. if schools want to continue to attract NETs they need to give appropriate pay and vacation, especially since the are increasingly demanding more teaching hours and greater qualifications.

Boom.
Bwaa

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #593 on: November 14, 2017, 12:36:37 PM »
the tide is turning my friend. if schools want to continue to attract NETs they need to give appropriate pay and vacation, especially since the are increasingly demanding more teaching hours and greater qualifications.

Boom.
I hope you are right, but my anecdotal evidence indicates otherwise.

There is vast difference in pay and benefits for those who work at an international and company schools, compared to what Korea pays.

With the demographic trend in Korea being what it is, hundreds of positions will continue to be lost each year, as businesses and schools close due to lack of students. 

My salary peaked more than a decade ago and common practice has been to simply continue to decrease remuneration by reducing benefits, like renewal bonuses, airfare, etc. and not providing COLAs each year.

I'm curious why you think it will get better.

What indicators, if any, can you point to to back up your statement?

Have you ever been to one of the international jobs fairs for teachers?

Korea used to guarantee most, if not all of the salary in USD (contracts paid 70~100%).  It has been two decades, but that standard has yet to be reinstated.

Offline What?What?

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #594 on: November 14, 2017, 02:47:32 PM »
And just to add, that some of these vacancies that need to be filled are due to level 1+ not being renewed for next year because the schools can't afford the top level and need to bring in a level 2 teacher.... It's shite, but it's happened to a couple of peeps I know.

Alistair, correct me if I am wrong but you only take applications from teachers outside of Korea correct? Or do you post positions that will allow for teachers who are already in Korea to apply?

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Offline Alistair

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #595 on: November 14, 2017, 03:54:35 PM »
I accept applicants from those inside Korea - but you need to have great reference letters.

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #596 on: November 14, 2017, 10:25:39 PM »
the tide is turning my friend. if schools want to continue to attract NETs they need to give appropriate pay and vacation, especially since the are increasingly demanding more teaching hours and greater qualifications.

The whole 2006 wages deal is finally starting to backfire.

They'll wake up and suddenly raise their game when they have to though.

This might have to get a bit worse first however. Korean bosses only do the right thing when they absolutely have to.

Catch my drift?


Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #598 on: November 14, 2017, 10:34:55 PM »
I'm sure there are vacancies, because provinces keep coming up with "budget cuts" excuses to lay off large numbers of teachers rather than renew them and have to pay them more, yet Korean parents want free Englishee and I can't blame them. Koreans expect public school NET's to only stick around for one or two years and are shocked when anyone wants to stay longer. Plus Korean culture has a built-in aversion to paying people raises--they fire almost all Korean workers when they hit 45 rather than continue to give them yearly raises. And as untrustworthy foreigners, we're seen as doubly disposable.

I think the salaries here are fine if you just have a BA, otherwise people wouldn't keep coming here. Just don't expect to get rich and don't ever expect to be able to stay for more than 2 years in EPIK, Korea just doesn't want us to. They're happy to chuck out experienced teachers and hire a boatload of new people, because it's what they do with Korean staff too.

It doesn't really matter for most of us, but there are people married to Koreans who have kids and would like a steady job making decent money. Some of them do manage to become EPIK lifers and stick around forever (often because they've gone native and are politically connected with the POE/MOE) but in 2017 it's just not really something you can depend on. It's kinda like how people used to just naturally drift from EPIK into "cushy" university jobs, and now those jobs pay less than EPIK and are hard to get and require higher qualifications every year.

As long as Western economies continue to undervalue young workers and as long as Korea has Englishee Fever, there will be teaching jobs here. The "population crisis" thing is completely overblown, this is one of the most overpopulated countries on the planet and the population is having a natural modern capitalist slowdown after decades of rural poverty with related high childbirth rates. If rural schools are closing it's because South Korea has had a massive emigration from rural areas to urban areas over the last 20 years, and it's actually starting to reverse a bit for some reason.

Offline What?What?

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Re: The End of Native Teachers/EPIK/NETs in Korea [Mega Thread]
« Reply #599 on: November 15, 2017, 08:45:38 AM »
I accept applicants from those inside Korea - but you need to have great reference letters.

Ahhh thanks Alistair, I may send someone your way. He has recently been affected by the "we can't afford a 1+ level teacher" saga.
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