November 18, 2017, 08:11:11 PM

Author Topic: Louis CK  (Read 1938 times)

Offline kyndo

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2017, 04:06:26 PM »
kyndo,
If there were a guy who used the women's restroom at work to leave a treat on the seat, would you call that "sexual" harassment?
If the treat were a deuce or pudding in a cloud, would it matter?  Should it matter?
If semen, it is classified as a "sex" crime in Korea, but if it is feces, it is completely FINE, in the eyes of the law.
OK?
That is why gender matters.
Ah, but now we're talking about a very different (and gross. Ewww.) situation.

My comment was relating specifically to the interaction between 2 individuals where one holds a position of power relative to the other. In that specific scenario, if the empowered individual behaves in an unsolicited sexual manner, the unempowered individual may feel abused.
In the above scenario, gender doesn't *necessarily* come into play.
I wasn't making a sweeping generalization: sorry if it came across as such!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 07:38:53 AM by kyndo »

Offline StillInKorea

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2017, 07:25:51 PM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Offline shanebarry1986

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2017, 10:33:27 PM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!
"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Offline 미국인병

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 08:18:06 AM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!

If the situation is so unclear that you have to quite literally ask someone if they want to engage in sexual activities, then you're probably a pretty pathetic person.

Offline koreakorea

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 08:29:37 AM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!

If the situation is so unclear that you have to quite literally ask someone if they want to engage in sexual activities, then you're probably a pretty pathetic person.

I think the point being made by a lot of people is that getting consent is rammed down the throats of everyone so much these days, and yet even getting consent is not good enough.  It's still sexual harrasment if you're "in a position of power" over someone else.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2017, 09:18:01 AM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!

If the situation is so unclear that you have to quite literally ask someone if they want to engage in sexual activities, then you're probably a pretty pathetic person.

But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already. 

Offline 미국인병

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2017, 09:25:51 AM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!

If the situation is so unclear that you have to quite literally ask someone if they want to engage in sexual activities, then you're probably a pretty pathetic person.

But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already. 

If you put someone in a sexual situation without it being obvious that that's what they're looking for, you're already breaking the idea of what consent is. Asking loaded questions like, "Do you want to see my dick?" puts the person being asked in a sexual situation without their consent. You used important words; ask at each stage. If you skip all the way to the final stage, it's harassment.

Gahh, this is all so artless.
Here's one example of how it should work:

1.) I am attracted to this person, I should try to hang out them.
2.) OK, they seem comfortable around me, I should try to spend more time with them one on one maybe outside this bar.
3.) OK, they seem to like talking with me alone, and they seemed fine with getting drinks with me, and they smile a lot and playfully touched my arm a few times. I should try to continue this.
4.) OK, time to go, maybe I can walk with them.
5.) Nice, they wanted to walk together, I wonder if maybe...
6.) WHOA we're holding hands now, maybe if I tell them I'm interested in them.
7.) They're giving me a look. Well, here goes nothing: "Hey so, it's late, uhhh do you want to get out of here maybe go somewhere..."
"Yes"
8.) nowkith.jpg Oh sh!t no way. *goes to motel together*
- THE END -

So no, you don't have to literally ask CAN I HOLD YOUR HAND - CAN I HUG YOU - CAN I KITH YOU - OK SEX? I mean you, can. Nothing wrong with that; might be clunky and awkward but some girls may think it's cute. But my point is that it's usually quite obvious what degree someone wants to engage sexually with you. If they aren't giving you any exceptionally obvious signs that they're interested, then don't harass them.

Louis CK method:

1.) Done with being a comedian tonight. Bars are closed, I wonder if my two female coworkers would just like to eat and drink at my hotel.
2.) Oh sh!t they said yes! *goes to hotel together*
3.) Alright, now I wonder if they'd like to see me get naked and masturbate... I should ask!

No nuance. No courtship. Just "I.AM.DOING.MY.DUTY.IN.RESPECTING.YOU.BY.ASKING.FIRST.SEX.PLZ." That's what's pathetic.

Offline CO2

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2017, 09:31:54 AM »
8.) nowkith.jpg Oh sh!t no way. *goes to motel together*

The Kevin Method

Online Pecan

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2017, 09:44:00 AM »
But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already.
Agreed.

The question then becomes, if you are under the influence, are you capable/able to provide/give consent?

Some argue that you are NOT, which opens up an entirely different set of questions.

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2017, 09:45:25 AM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!

If the situation is so unclear that you have to quite literally ask someone if they want to engage in sexual activities, then you're probably a pretty pathetic person.

But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already. 

If you put someone in a sexual situation without it being obvious that that's what they're looking for, you're already breaking the idea of what consent is. Asking loaded questions like, "Do you want to see my dick?" puts the person being asked in a sexual situation without their consent. You used important words; ask at each stage. If you skip all the way to the final stage, it's harassment.

Gahh, this is all so artless.
Here's one example of how it should work:

1.) I am attracted to this person, I should try to hang out them.
2.) OK, they seem comfortable around me, I should try to spend more time with them one on one maybe outside this bar.
3.) OK, they seem to like talking with me alone, and they seemed fine with getting drinks with me, and they smile a lot and playfully touched my arm a few times. I should try to continue this.
4.) OK, time to go, maybe I can walk with them.
5.) Nice, they wanted to walk together, I wonder if maybe...
6.) WHOA we're holding hands now, maybe if I tell them I'm interested in them.
7.) They're giving me a look. Well, here goes nothing: "Hey so, it's late, uhhh do you want to get out of here maybe go somewhere..."
"Yes"
8.) nowkith.jpg Oh sh!t no way. *goes to motel together*
- THE END -

So no, you don't have to literally ask CAN I HOLD YOUR HAND - CAN I HUG YOU - CAN I KITH YOU - OK SEX? I mean you, can. Nothing wrong with that; might be clunky and awkward but some girls may think it's cute. But my point is that it's usually quite obvious what degree someone wants to engage sexually with you. If they aren't giving you any exceptionally obvious signs that they're interested, then don't harass them.

Louis CK method:

1.) Done with being a comedian tonight. Bars are closed, I wonder if my two female coworkers would just like to eat and drink at my hotel.
2.) Oh sh!t they said yes! *goes to hotel together*
3.) Alright, now I wonder if they'd like to see me get naked and masturbate... I should ask!

No nuance. No courtship. Just "I.AM.DOING.MY.DUTY.IN.RESPECTING.YOU.BY.ASKING.FIRST.SEX.PLZ." That's what's pathetic.

Your scenario is describing what happens when people date, it doesn't really cover how a lot of people have sex on a regular basis - ie one night stands where both parties are drunk. That's when you really need verbal consent and preferably a written text message just to cover yourself.   

Online eggieguffer

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2017, 09:48:46 AM »
But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already.
Agreed.

The question then becomes, if you are under the influence, are you capable/able to provide/give consent?

Some argue that you are NOT, which opens up an entirely different set of questions.

Yes, which as I mentioned is how a lot of people have sex. I've even heard people say if a woman's not in a fit state to drive it's not real consent. IE after one and a half pints.

Online Pecan

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2017, 09:49:40 AM »
But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already.
Agreed.

The question then becomes, if you are under the influence, are you capable/able to provide/give consent?

Some argue that you are NOT, which opens up an entirely different set of questions.

Yes, which as I mentioned is how a lot of people have sex. I've even heard people say if a woman's not in a fit state to drive it's not real consent. IE after one and a half pints.
A married Korean doesn't need consent, which seems odd.

Offline 미국인병

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2017, 09:55:15 AM »
Urgh, why did I read the whole thread. Not saying what he did was the crime of the century, but if you can't see anything wrong with his behaviour then I really can't understand how you think.

He was a bit of a perv, but nothing more.

Wrong. You are only supposed to ask a woman for consent if she's gonna say Yes. If a man asks a woman for consent and she says "no" and he respects her choice it's still harassment. It's Current Year, c'mon!

If the situation is so unclear that you have to quite literally ask someone if they want to engage in sexual activities, then you're probably a pretty pathetic person.

But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already. 

If you put someone in a sexual situation without it being obvious that that's what they're looking for, you're already breaking the idea of what consent is. Asking loaded questions like, "Do you want to see my dick?" puts the person being asked in a sexual situation without their consent. You used important words; ask at each stage. If you skip all the way to the final stage, it's harassment.

Gahh, this is all so artless.
Here's one example of how it should work:

1.) I am attracted to this person, I should try to hang out them.
2.) OK, they seem comfortable around me, I should try to spend more time with them one on one maybe outside this bar.
3.) OK, they seem to like talking with me alone, and they seemed fine with getting drinks with me, and they smile a lot and playfully touched my arm a few times. I should try to continue this.
4.) OK, time to go, maybe I can walk with them.
5.) Nice, they wanted to walk together, I wonder if maybe...
6.) WHOA we're holding hands now, maybe if I tell them I'm interested in them.
7.) They're giving me a look. Well, here goes nothing: "Hey so, it's late, uhhh do you want to get out of here maybe go somewhere..."
"Yes"
8.) nowkith.jpg Oh sh!t no way. *goes to motel together*
- THE END -

So no, you don't have to literally ask CAN I HOLD YOUR HAND - CAN I HUG YOU - CAN I KITH YOU - OK SEX? I mean you, can. Nothing wrong with that; might be clunky and awkward but some girls may think it's cute. But my point is that it's usually quite obvious what degree someone wants to engage sexually with you. If they aren't giving you any exceptionally obvious signs that they're interested, then don't harass them.

Louis CK method:

1.) Done with being a comedian tonight. Bars are closed, I wonder if my two female coworkers would just like to eat and drink at my hotel.
2.) Oh sh!t they said yes! *goes to hotel together*
3.) Alright, now I wonder if they'd like to see me get naked and masturbate... I should ask!

No nuance. No courtship. Just "I.AM.DOING.MY.DUTY.IN.RESPECTING.YOU.BY.ASKING.FIRST.SEX.PLZ." That's what's pathetic.

Your scenario is describing what happens when people date, it doesn't really cover how a lot of people have sex on a regular basis - ie one night stands where both parties are drunk. That's when you really need verbal consent and preferably a written text message just to cover yourself.   

All of the one night stands I've had have more or less gone that way. I'm not exactly sure how much differently it could go. Yes, too much alcohol makes things sloppy, but that's why you should be careful and avoid girls (and/or  guys!) who are recklessly drunk.

But what Louis CK did isn't even related to the politics of a one-night-stand.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2017, 10:24:32 AM »
3 pages on whether or not it's okay to start jacking off in front of someone at work...

Offline 미국인병

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2017, 10:28:14 AM »
3 pages on whether or not it's okay to start jacking off in front of someone at work...

Dude, relax.HeaskedfirstOK?(sarcasm)

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2017, 01:50:19 PM »
But this is precisely what young people are being taught to do these days. Ask for specific verbal consent at each stage. Your opinion will soon be regarded as that of a misogynistic dinosaur, if it isn't already.
Agreed.

The question then becomes, if you are under the influence, are you capable/able to provide/give consent?

Some argue that you are NOT, which opens up an entirely different set of questions.

Yes, which as I mentioned is how a lot of people have sex. I've even heard people say if a woman's not in a fit state to drive it's not real consent. IE after one and a half pints.
A married Korean doesn't need consent, which seems odd.

Not that strange to this old guy.

The definition of “rape” in Canada was until recently something like “forced sex with a woman, not your wife.”

The logic was that marriage was consent to sex.

Online Pecan

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »
Not that strange to this old guy.

The definition of “rape” in Canada was until recently something like “forced sex with a woman, not your wife.”

The logic was that marriage was consent to sex.
Yeah, well, it is kind of difficult to address these types of issues in a society that permits women to be raped simply because they are married.

I don't like it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:40:25 PM by Pecan »

Offline Ellynmellyn

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2017, 04:18:27 PM »
I am very concerned by the lack of empathy from some people in this thread... You can't for 3 seconds imagine yourself (or someone you care about) being put in a position where they feel pressured and intimidated into doing something they're uncomfortable with?
I am glad that so many of you seem to have lived such comfortable lives where you have never felt powerless under someone else. That you've apparently never had a single relationship with another human that has been complicated by money, fame, seniority, or influence, and you can't imagine how those factors could play into someones ability to say 'No' (or give consent).


Were these witnesses/victims being held against their will?

Whenever I have witnessed disturbing things, I've usually kept moving.

I can't remember a time when I stuck around when I didn't want to stay.



Just leaving isn't always an option. There's no way in the moment to know the consequences of staying vs leaving. It's hard to tell when a situation that seems calm enough is about to get out of hand or violent.

I also can't remember a time when I decided to stick around when I didn't want to stay. Unfortunately, my choice to leave was not appreciated and accepted by my harasser.

I tried to walk away from a bad situation on the street with a man who was trying to talk to me and following me back to my hotel. He had just been asking "Will you be my friend? I want to spend time with you, pretty lady. Don't you want to talk to me, girl?" He was non-violent until I started to run away. He didn't like me trying to leave and decided chase me, grab me, and punch me in the face a few times. When that didn't stop me from trying to get away, he threw me down and used his motorcycle helmet to hit back of my head/neck/spine repeatedly.
The concussion and various pains were making it a little difficult to 'keep moving'.




Offline shanebarry1986

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2017, 08:18:14 PM »

Here's one example of how it should work:


F**k right off. You don't get to tell adults how their sex lives "should work". People like you have been millennia telling people who they are allowed to be attracted to, who they are allowed to sleep with, and under what prescribed circumstances. Your nouveau puritanism will go the way of the old religious puritanism. To the landfill of history with you!
"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

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Re: Louis CK
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2017, 05:29:31 AM »

Here's one example of how it should work:


F**k right off. You don't get to tell adults how their sex lives "should work". People like you have been millennia telling people who they are allowed to be attracted to, who they are allowed to sleep with, and under what prescribed circumstances. Your nouveau puritanism will go the way of the old religious puritanism. To the landfill of history with you!

Society encouraging people to do exactly what they want sexually has caused as many problems as it solved. If not more.