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Author Topic: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.  (Read 657903 times)

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4500 on: November 28, 2017, 08:42:45 AM »
Can someone humour me and briefly explain how teaching in an elementary school works because I just can't get my head around it.  I have basic assumptions but my confusion mainly comes from reading posts like - "Elementary, teaching alone, no coteacher..."

I assume that most of the students have never encountered English before so they literally don't know anything (aside from "hello").  Is that right?  So...how in the world can you teach them anything without Korean translation?  I mean, if you're teaching alone, how do you do this?

Do elementary textbooks have Korean in them?  How do the students know what's going on without translation?

I assume you have target expressions like "How are you?" or "This is a pencil".  How can you possibly communicate the grammatical function of "how, are, this, is" etc without a Korean translation?

As a side note, I've read posts from NETs who claim they "took the student aside and explained to him exactly what he did wrong and why it was wrong" etc.  How are these elementary students understanding this??!!!!  Or (as I suspect) there's a Korean teacher translating word for word which is conveniently left out of the NET's story.

Sorry for the rambly post but it makes my head hurt thinking about this stuff.

In all my time here, I've found native teachers in elementary to be the most pointless waste of money, especially if you're a new teacher with no Korean speaking skills.  Like you say, you need to be able to communicate with students but most have never got past from the basic 'hello' as more than that needs more explanation in Korean.  I found that you can really only teach vocabulary with pictures and games linked with it, if you are a new teacher who's unfortunately 'teaching alone'.  By middle and high, the students have character and most have realised that they need to knuckle down for studying, which makes things so much easier.  Elementary is just fun time, and you notice when they graduate to middle school, there is a shock because they actually have to do something and they have more difficult tests.  The jump is significant. 

Offline denimdaze

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4501 on: November 28, 2017, 08:46:06 AM »
Can someone humour me and briefly explain how teaching in an elementary school works because I just can't get my head around it.  I have basic assumptions but my confusion mainly comes from reading posts like - "Elementary, teaching alone, no coteacher..."

I assume that most of the students have never encountered English before so they literally don't know anything (aside from "hello").  Is that right?  So...how in the world can you teach them anything without Korean translation?  I mean, if you're teaching alone, how do you do this?

Do elementary textbooks have Korean in them?  How do the students know what's going on without translation?

I assume you have target expressions like "How are you?" or "This is a pencil".  How can you possibly communicate the grammatical function of "how, are, this, is" etc without a Korean translation?

As a side note, I've read posts from NETs who claim they "took the student aside and explained to him exactly what he did wrong and why it was wrong" etc.  How are these elementary students understanding this??!!!!  Or (as I suspect) there's a Korean teacher translating word for word which is conveniently left out of the NET's story.

Sorry for the rambly post but it makes my head hurt thinking about this stuff.

In all my time here, I've found native teachers in elementary to be the most pointless waste of money, especially if you're a new teacher with no Korean speaking skills.  Like you say, you need to be able to communicate with students but most have never got past from the basic 'hello' as more than that needs more explanation in Korean.  I found that you can really only teach vocabulary with pictures and games linked with it, if you are a new teacher who's unfortunately 'teaching alone'.  By middle and high, the students have character and most have realised that they need to knuckle down for studying, which makes things so much easier.  Elementary is just fun time, and you notice when they graduate to middle school, there is a shock because they actually have to do something and they have more difficult tests.  The jump is significant.

I teach third grade elementary alone and I find it frustrating.  This semester is the first time the class has studied with a native teacher, and I'm on my own.  I do a lot of TPR and drill with them and make it as active and fun as possible.  It is what it is.

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4502 on: November 28, 2017, 08:47:14 AM »
Can someone humour me and briefly explain how teaching in an elementary school works because I just can't get my head around it.  I have basic assumptions but my confusion mainly comes from reading posts like - "Elementary, teaching alone, no coteacher..."

I assume that most of the students have never encountered English before so they literally don't know anything (aside from "hello").  Is that right?  So...how in the world can you teach them anything without Korean translation?  I mean, if you're teaching alone, how do you do this?

Do elementary textbooks have Korean in them?  How do the students know what's going on without translation?

I assume you have target expressions like "How are you?" or "This is a pencil".  How can you possibly communicate the grammatical function of "how, are, this, is" etc without a Korean translation?

As a side note, I've read posts from NETs who claim they "took the student aside and explained to him exactly what he did wrong and why it was wrong" etc.  How are these elementary students understanding this??!!!!  Or (as I suspect) there's a Korean teacher translating word for word which is conveniently left out of the NET's story.

Sorry for the rambly post but it makes my head hurt thinking about this stuff.

I took French immersion and there was no translation. That said,

-English and French are much more similar
-I was 5, ready to soak it in.

HOWEVER, you know what I did? I shut the hell up and listened. I didn't act out because I knew I was out of my element.  And there was real shame in being an asshole who disrupted the class. I've been in public school for 3 years and have never seen a student sent to the principal's office. I was deathly afraid of the principal talking to my parents in a negative fashion. 

My co-teacher keeps asking me, "Well what games did you play in French class?" Uhhhhh, Bescherelle writing for 100 times? We didn't play, we shut up and learned the language. Parisians might make fun of my Quebecois/Franco-Ontarian accent, but they know that my language skills are on point.

Online oglop

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4503 on: November 28, 2017, 09:03:32 AM »
it's strange how english study has become 'game time' in korea. parents and kids expect english to always be fun. is there the same expectation for other subjects, such as maths or science?

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4504 on: November 28, 2017, 09:10:50 AM »
Can someone humour me and briefly explain how teaching in an elementary school works because I just can't get my head around it.  I have basic assumptions but my confusion mainly comes from reading posts like - "Elementary, teaching alone, no coteacher..."

I assume that most of the students have never encountered English before so they literally don't know anything (aside from "hello").  Is that right?  So...how in the world can you teach them anything without Korean translation?  I mean, if you're teaching alone, how do you do this?

Do elementary textbooks have Korean in them?  How do the students know what's going on without translation?

I assume you have target expressions like "How are you?" or "This is a pencil".  How can you possibly communicate the grammatical function of "how, are, this, is" etc without a Korean translation?

As a side note, I've read posts from NETs who claim they "took the student aside and explained to him exactly what he did wrong and why it was wrong" etc.  How are these elementary students understanding this??!!!!  Or (as I suspect) there's a Korean teacher translating word for word which is conveniently left out of the NET's story.

Sorry for the rambly post but it makes my head hurt thinking about this stuff.

In all my time here, I've found native teachers in elementary to be the most pointless waste of money, especially if you're a new teacher with no Korean speaking skills.  Like you say, you need to be able to communicate with students but most have never got past from the basic 'hello' as more than that needs more explanation in Korean.  I found that you can really only teach vocabulary with pictures and games linked with it, if you are a new teacher who's unfortunately 'teaching alone'.  By middle and high, the students have character and most have realised that they need to knuckle down for studying, which makes things so much easier.  Elementary is just fun time, and you notice when they graduate to middle school, there is a shock because they actually have to do something and they have more difficult tests.  The jump is significant.

I teach third grade elementary alone and I find it frustrating.  This semester is the first time the class has studied with a native teacher, and I'm on my own.  I do a lot of TPR and drill with them and make it as active and fun as possible.  It is what it is.

Right, not only for you but for the kids.  You may be lucky and have a few students who've been to hagwons their whole life and can understand, but then your class will be too easy for them as you aim for the mean in the class.  Keeping them focused and on point gets easier if you vary the activities and don't keep them too long on one thing.  'Uppers and downers' are the way to teach elementary kids.  But they really don't need too much teaching in elementary school to pass the tests they do, and a native teacher going off on a tangent would be considered a waste of time.  If you are stuck with a strict co-teacher, as I've been on one occassion, you're completely useless and it's a horrible experience.  If you have a more open-minded principal and teachers, and can prepare whatever, it makes so much difference. 

I took French immersion and there was no translation. That said,

-English and French are much more similar
-I was 5, ready to soak it in.

HOWEVER, you know what I did? I shut the hell up and listened. I didn't act out because I knew I was out of my element.  And there was real shame in being an asshole who disrupted the class. I've been in public school for 3 years and have never seen a student sent to the principal's office. I was deathly afraid of the principal talking to my parents in a negative fashion. 

My co-teacher keeps asking me, "Well what games did you play in French class?" Uhhhhh, Bescherelle writing for 100 times? We didn't play, we shut up and learned the language. Parisians might make fun of my Quebecois/Franco-Ontarian accent, but they know that my language skills are on point.

I'm not sure if your language learning was like ours where your grade was 25% speaking, 25% listening, 25% writing and 25% reading.  So if you want a good grade, you've got to be good at all the aspects.  I'm pretty sure that makes you want to pay particular attention to everything. 

I heard from a co-teacher that from 2018 Seoul Uni is using English as part of its interview process for all the subjects.  This year I helped two of my students for their 'sushi' interview.  One wants to study Global Hotel Management and the other Nursing.  Seems to be enough of an incentive to really push on with the speaking side of English and make it a more integral part of middle and high school learning, rather than just its 10% in a simple speaking test.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4505 on: November 28, 2017, 09:17:04 AM »
it's strange how english study has become 'game time' in korea. parents and kids expect english to always be fun. is there the same expectation for other subjects, such as maths or science?

In my high school, the maths teacher has 100% Teacher Talking Time.  It is shut up and listen time, the students look so bored.  I'm sure this is not good, but then I'm sure there is so much maths to teach that students are going to fall behind easily.  In middle school, there was more of a basis on teams together and the teacher giving problems to solve between themselves.  I liked that as stronger students could help the weaker students, and they'd be less likely to fall behind. 

If I remember my secondary school science classes, it involved filling my friend's pencil case with gas and blowing it up, or running a high current through a straightened paper clip and cutting things with the hot wire.  Fun...  Korean students don't seem to do a lot of 'experiments', like that.  :-[

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4506 on: November 28, 2017, 09:38:35 AM »
In you I see dirty
In you I count stars
In you I feel so pretty
In you I taste god
In you I feel so hungry
In you I crash cars
We must never be apart

Online oglop

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4507 on: November 28, 2017, 12:35:18 PM »
it's strange how english study has become 'game time' in korea. parents and kids expect english to always be fun. is there the same expectation for other subjects, such as maths or science?

In my high school, the maths teacher has 100% Teacher Talking Time.  It is shut up and listen time, the students look so bored.  I'm sure this is not good, but then I'm sure there is so much maths to teach that students are going to fall behind easily.  In middle school, there was more of a basis on teams together and the teacher giving problems to solve between themselves.  I liked that as stronger students could help the weaker students, and they'd be less likely to fall behind. 

If I remember my secondary school science classes, it involved filling my friend's pencil case with gas and blowing it up, or running a high current through a straightened paper clip and cutting things with the hot wire.  Fun...  Korean students don't seem to do a lot of 'experiments', like that.  :-[
there's nothing that makes me more annoyed than when students say "teacher, not fun", regardless of whether it's a game or not. i'm not sure how they even have the audacity to say it; i certainly wouldn't have even dreamt to say something like that at school. a surefire way that that student won't be partaking in any more group activities for the rest of class

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4508 on: November 28, 2017, 12:50:08 PM »
there's nothing that makes me more annoyed than when students say "teacher, not fun", regardless of whether it's a game or not. i'm not sure how they even have the audacity to say it; i certainly wouldn't have even dreamt to say something like that at school. a surefire way that that student won't be partaking in any more group activities for the rest of class

That's what my teacher would have said

 :police: (but smaller): Teacher, this is not fun.

 :-* Obviously, we're conjugating 7 prime verbs in the conditional, je, tu, il/elle, nous, vous, ils/elles 10 times each. It will take an hour. Why on earth would you even begin to consider this as a fun activity. Now shut up and start writing, you'll thank me when you you go to Quebec on vacation and have French friends in Korea later in life.

 :police: (but smaller and a little red in the face): What's a Korea?

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4509 on: November 28, 2017, 01:09:26 PM »
As a complete aside, here's a French joke. (Sorry, no accents, you'll figure it out)

Alors, il y en a un guerre dans un pays africain. Un famille la decides a demenage au Quebec.

 :afro: Fils, maintenant nous sommes Canadien. Ta mere et moi voulons que tu participeras dans les sports et les choses culturelle ici. Alors, cet hiver, nous voulons que tu patinera.

 :police: D'accord papa.

Alors, hiver c'arrive, et il prends ses patins et depart la maison. Il arrive au edifice et il regarde la signage.

PATINOIR

 :police: Pas 'tit noir? Mon dieu, c'est si raciste! 

Il retourne chez lui.

 :police: Maman, y'en a un signe la qui dit "Pas 'tit noir!" Qu'est-ce que je peux faire?

 :-* Mon dieu! Je pensais que Canada ete liberal et ouvert, mais peut-etre non........... Viens avec moi au salle de bain.

Maman peint toute sa peau vert.

 :-* Retourne maintenant. Personne saura.

 :police: D'accord.

Il retourne encore un fois au patinoir et regarde le signage.

PATINOIR

OUVERT


Offline JNM

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4510 on: November 28, 2017, 01:30:53 PM »
As a complete aside, here's a French joke. (Sorry, no accents, you'll figure it out)

Alors, il y en a un guerre dans un pays africain. Un famille la decides a demenage au Quebec.

 :afro: Fils, maintenant nous sommes Canadien. Ta mere et moi voulons que tu participeras dans les sports et les choses culturelle ici. Alors, cet hiver, nous voulons que tu patinera.

 :police: D'accord papa.

Alors, hiver c'arrive, et il prends ses patins et depart la maison. Il arrive au edifice et il regarde la signage.

PATINOIR

 :police: Pas 'tit noir? Mon dieu, c'est si raciste! 

Il retourne chez lui.

 :police: Maman, y'en a un signe la qui dit "Pas 'tit noir!" Qu'est-ce que je peux faire?

 :-* Mon dieu! Je pensais que Canada ete liberal et ouvert, mais peut-etre non........... Viens avec moi au salle de bain.

Maman peint toute sa peau vert.

 :-* Retourne maintenant. Personne saura.

 :police: D'accord.

Il retourne encore un fois au patinoir et regarde le signage.

PATINOIR

OUVERT

Límao

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4511 on: November 28, 2017, 01:38:27 PM »

Offline DMZabductee

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4512 on: November 28, 2017, 01:39:25 PM »
^^^^^     

hmmmm..... maybe that's why I don't remember ever seeing any black people at the skating rink when I was growing up  :undecided:

Anywhoo, keeping with the French theme:

Everytime I hear students say "개새끼야!" my mind hears "qu'est-ce qu'il y a?"and I do a double take to make sure I'm not actually hearing French. But it never is ㅜㅜ Ah, fils de pute!!




Offline tadpole511

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4513 on: November 28, 2017, 01:42:29 PM »
I've taken to speaking French to my kids when they're annoying me between classes. Works like a charm.

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4514 on: November 28, 2017, 01:45:10 PM »
Everytime I hear students say "개새끼야!" my mind hears "qu'est-ce qu'il y a?"and I do a double take to make sure I'm not actually hearing French. But it never is ㅜㅜ Ah, fils de pute!!

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss.

Holy shit,


You know what I learned from Ghost Pepper Farmer on Saturday. 빵 is just taken from pain.

 :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: 5 years and I had no idea! THE HELL!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!!!????????

As another French aside, my friend from Minnesota phoned me during our first year here and asked me to meet him at the

 :afro: Touse Lezz Jowers

 :police: The what?????

:afro: The Touse Lezz Jowers

 :police: What are you on about?

 :afro: You know, there's Paris Baguette and there's............ Touse Lezz Jowers

 :police: It's Tous Les Jours, the facccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk are you on?????  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Offline koreakorea

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4515 on: November 28, 2017, 01:46:27 PM »
Why don't French people eat two eggs for breakfast?

Because one is un oeuf

 8)

Offline JNM

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4516 on: November 28, 2017, 01:52:27 PM »
Why don't French people eat two eggs for breakfast?

Because one is un oeuf

 8)

Líoeuf is zero to a tennis player.

Offline DMZabductee

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4517 on: November 28, 2017, 01:59:39 PM »

You know what I learned from Ghost Pepper Farmer on Saturday. 빵 is just taken from pain.

 :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: 5 years and I had no idea! THE HELL!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!!!????????

Yeah, 빵 was one of the first Korean words I learned and if my (nerdy) memory serves it actually comes from Portuguese by way of Japan.

p„o -> パン ->

pretty cool factoid IMO

Quote
Touse Lezz Jowers

Did your friend mean

뚜레쥬르??

aka the original and proper spelling  :P

Offline CO2

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4518 on: November 28, 2017, 02:02:02 PM »
Did your friend mean

뚜레쥬르??

aka the original and proper spelling  :P

He did. hahaha Absolutely my favourite mispronunciation of all-time.

Offline DMZabductee

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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #4519 on: November 28, 2017, 02:02:12 PM »
Why don't French people eat two eggs for breakfast?

Because one is un oeuf

 8)

  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Amazing