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Author Topic: Not Speaking English As A Point of Pride  (Read 12049 times)

Offline 0mnslnd

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2012, 01:53:48 AM »
Leave Patrick alone. A man doesn't want to be provoked on his first day in Korea. How's the honeymoon, Patrick? I'll be following your posts for entertainment purposes.
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Offline calvin0416

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2012, 03:14:59 AM »
Not all Koreans are like that, but sometimes I think it's deserved.
A lot of foreigners come to Korea because Korea has employed them, given them a job that they couldn't get back home.  Then these ppl come and disrespect Korea, Korean people and culture, and act like they own everything.

People should aim to FIRST UNDERSTAND then be understood.  Don't come to Korea who has GIVEN YOU A JOB and then slam it and its people and culture because you don't UNDERSTAND it.

Korea also has over 5,000 years of recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

Have some respect or simply pack up and try your luck back wherever u came from.  Sorry if this is harsh.  I don't mean to offend anyone.  I just don't like it when so many EMPLOYED people come here and complain.  At least Korea is giving you a job.
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Offline FloridaGator314

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2012, 06:34:18 AM »
Korea also has over 5,000 years of recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

What does how long Koreans claim to have been around for have to do with anything? The average Korean isn't several thousand years older than the average American.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 06:38:40 AM by FloridaGator314 »

Offline Jeff619

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2012, 09:36:22 AM »
Same in the US.  "I shouldn't have to press 1 to speak English."  There is also this video from an Australian school answering machine.  Now, I don't know for sure if the message is real but from the Aussies I know the sentiment seems to be the same.  I lived in New Zealand for a while and the locals there seemed to be more perturbed about hearing non-English languages (except Maori) than any other country I've been to. 

It's going to happen in just about any country.  I think OP shouldn't think too much about it.  I happen to agree with the student myself.


unicornrustler

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2012, 10:06:17 AM »
Korea also has over 5,000 years of recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

I think one of Korea's biggest problems is that people obsess over history so much, which is why so many people see it as a podunk, overly nationalist armpit of Asia at times. I can't go a week without hearing "Korean traditional" this or "please remember" that. I've put a fair amount of effort into learning Korean and have heard the heroic turtle boat saga enough times that I appreciate people who don't think it's their duty to be historical Korea's tour guide.

Furthermore, the history presented to every Kim Minsu is a bunch of nationalist, vainglorious tripe. Korea was an impoverished nation full of millet gleaners before the cold war. Being annexed by Japan was probably the best thing that ever happened in the history of Korea because it may not have ever been Americanized otherwise.

hilarity ensues

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2012, 10:38:37 AM »
Not all Koreans are like that, but sometimes I think it's deserved.
A lot of foreigners come to Korea because Korea has employed them, given them a job that they couldn't get back home.  Then these ppl come and disrespect Korea, Korean people and culture, and act like they own everything.

People should aim to FIRST UNDERSTAND then be understood.  Don't come to Korea who has GIVEN YOU A JOB and then slam it and its people and culture because you don't UNDERSTAND it.

Korea also has over 5,000 years of recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

Have some respect or simply pack up and try your luck back wherever u came from.  Sorry if this is harsh.  I don't mean to offend anyone.  I just don't like it when so many EMPLOYED people come here and complain.  At least Korea is giving you a job.

At first I actually thought that you were agreeing that your job (assuming you're a NET) and all English learning in Korea is useless, but then I realized that it's probably more likely that you completely missed the point of the original post, which was that some Koreans turn not speaking/knowing English into a point of pride, and of course the thing about being jealous of a student whose English is fantastic and trying to tear her down with nationalistic BS about remaining ignorant.

Nobody needs to hear about Korea's history, America's history, how we need to grovel at our employer's feet, or your conservative right wing BS about being grateful to the rich people who employ us. We don't need to hear moronic assumptions about 'expats in Korea', our nationalities, or Americans in general. We don't need to hear the endlessly repeated nationalistic cliches that all of Korea's most bitter socially rejected loner newbies love so much, including the ever-so-popular 'if ya don't like it, leave'. You didn't have some sort of radical epiphany in order to arrive at these conclusions.

So in the future, before you start whining about how horrible Americans in Korea are, lurk more around the online forums and try to identify exactly what doesn't need to be said for the millionth time, or at the very least read the content of the post that you are replying to before dropping the whole 'love it or leave it' bomb.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 10:50:36 AM by hilarity ensues »

Offline JahRhythm

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2012, 10:46:18 AM »
Not all Koreans are like that, but sometimes I think it's deserved.
A lot of foreigners come to Korea because Korea has employed them, given them a job that they couldn't get back home.  Then these ppl come and disrespect Korea, Korean people and culture, and act like they own everything.

People should aim to FIRST UNDERSTAND then be understood.  Don't come to Korea who has GIVEN YOU A JOB and then slam it and its people and culture because you don't UNDERSTAND it.

Korea also has over 5,000 years of" recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

Have some respect or simply pack up and try your luck back wherever u came from.  Sorry if this is harsh.  I don't mean to offend anyone.  I just don't like it when so many EMPLOYED people come here and complain.  At least Korea is giving you a job.

Can I copy and paste this into the "Things that annoy you" thread?  :laugh:
We teach EFL not ESL. Hagwon and "Private School" are not synonymous. Not everyone works in either a hagwon or public school. Immigration Question? Call 1345.

hilarity ensues

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2012, 10:53:32 AM »
Not all Koreans are like that, but sometimes I think it's deserved.
A lot of foreigners come to Korea because Korea has employed them, given them a job that they couldn't get back home.  Then these ppl come and disrespect Korea, Korean people and culture, and act like they own everything.

People should aim to FIRST UNDERSTAND then be understood.  Don't come to Korea who has GIVEN YOU A JOB and then slam it and its people and culture because you don't UNDERSTAND it.

Korea also has over 5,000 years of" recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

Have some respect or simply pack up and try your luck back wherever u came from.  Sorry if this is harsh.  I don't mean to offend anyone.  I just don't like it when so many EMPLOYED people come here and complain.  At least Korea is giving you a job.

Can I copy and paste this into the "Things that annoy you" thread?  :laugh:

Good idea.

In fact, I would LOVE a sticky thread entitled THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE SAID ABOUT KOREA OR EXPATS IN KOREA.

Seriously, there's enough repetition in teaching in general-- do we really need to have a forum full of it as well?

hilarity ensues

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2012, 10:58:53 AM »
I happen to agree with the student myself.

If you are a NET and you seriously agree that Koreans should only speak Korean, then you should probably quit your job. I mean, at least I believe that what I'm doing might actually be helping people and that English can be usefulů you seem to think that every time you show up to a class, you're actually hurting your students by forcing them to learn your language. And yet you continue to do it?

Offline Modernist

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2012, 11:18:50 AM »
Quote
People should aim to FIRST UNDERSTAND then be understood.  Don't come to Korea who has GIVEN YOU A JOB and then slam it and its people and culture because you don't UNDERSTAND it.

Korea also has over 5,000 years of recorded history.  Americans only have a couple hundred years of history.  So just because you're American, it doesn't mean you know everything about the whole world and its countries, cultures, and peoples who have been around 100x longer than America itself.

Have some respect or simply pack up and try your luck back wherever u came from.  Sorry if this is harsh.  I don't mean to offend anyone.  I just don't like it when so many EMPLOYED people come here and complain.  At least Korea is giving you a job.

Hmm. What did Reagan say? There he goes again?

I 'slam' things that I quite DO understand, my friend. What I understand is how mediocre they are in a fair comparison with other places.

The best way to understand Korea is this: for 1,500 years, from about the Qin Dynasty up until about 1880, they copied everything from the Chinese [temple architecture, religion, style of governance, red seals on documents, use of scrolls for communication, agricultural system, settlement patterns]. They were, essentially, an 'out-there' province of China, like Xinjiang, and could very easily have been absorbed into traditional Chinese borders many times if the Chinese emperors had ever cared to do so.

After the rise of Japan via the Meiji Restoration, [i.e. the late Jeoson Dynasty period, starting in the mid-1880s] they started copying from the modernized Japanese. This went on well through the supposed illegal treaty essentially turning Korea into a Japanese protectorate. In fact, throughout the 1910s and 1920s a significant number of Koreans very eagerly adopted Japanese styles, methods of thinking and technical skillsets. They pretend everything was a hotbed of resistance but the historical record is clear. Educated Koreans welcomed the Japanese because they knew that was their only realistic path to becoming a modern nation and not a weak, illiterate, monarchical backwater, as they had previously been for centuries. A tremendous amount of 'modern' Korea is based on Japanese colonial policies or copied directly from their examples. The railroad network, the airports, the major open spaces and parks in every city. The street system in the cities, such as it is. Modern banking. Many of the original chaebol, which were modeled on Japanese keiretsu. The huge department stores.

Finally, after the defeat of Japan during the war, and then the civil war, Korea turned to copying its savior, America. Everything from the military structure, to the inter-provincial road network, to the intelligence services, to the political party system, to the post-war constitution, to the importance of transient consumer fads and fashion came from looking to America as a model. They are STILL doing this, to this day, and STILL looking to Japan [look at Samsung, copying and then bettering Sony. Look at Hyundai, copying Toyota]. Heck, maybe soon they will start copying China again.

Korea's supposed glorious and unique history is a fraud. It's one of the side benefits of their great economic progress over the last decades. When you work as hard as they do, and make as much money as they have, you can be very convincing as you rewrite history to make yourselves look more more noble, more distinct, more important, than the factual record says that you ever were.

Respect comes from truth. Respect comes from honesty. Respect comes from careful analysis and observation of a place and a people. I DO respect the Koreans, which is why I demand nothing less than a mature, one might say a grown-up, view of their supposed culture and historical record.

Sorry, Calvin. Study real history a bit sometime. It's pretty interesting. Especially if you open your eyes when you're doing it.

Offline wrinklebump

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2012, 12:45:41 PM »
most modern, developed nations have 'copied' one another in some form. the japanese educational system as reformed during the meiji restoration borrowed ideas from the austrians; its industries and transportation networks were modeled after that very same central european power.

since the industrial revolution something quite like a blueprint for prosperity has emerged, so you can hardly disparage a nation's leaders for sticking to it.
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Offline Frozencat99

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2012, 09:25:59 PM »
I wouldn't really find the English-Korean duality here comparable to the English-French duality in Canada.

The history of the languages and bilingualism is incomparable (multilingualism was popular for a while, before Canada decided it was going to erase the history of the Chinese and the Iroquois). Additionally, if Koreans learn English, they can (theoretically) effectively communicate with an estimated 1.8 billion people worldwide (yes, Wikipedia result from Google :3).

[Edit: Forgot to respond to the topic at large. I get disillusioned when things like this happen, though I've lucked out and the powerful class leaders tend to be excellent at English. Class motivation really picks up when you have to choose between being unable to answer "How are you today?" and having a pleasant school experience.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 09:27:37 PM by Frozencat99 »
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Offline Chadwickhhs

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 08:04:39 AM »
Quote
--cut short to save space--
I agree pretty flatly with this. The best way to learn the truth about Korea's magnificent history is to put it in context with the history being told in it's neighbor nations. Japanese history does the same thing about pushing "exceptionalism," but the reality is that these nations are doing a lot to try and hide the fact that most of their history is shared and borrowed from others. Mostly the Chinese.

That being said... I don't think that's something necessarily bad. Innovation is better but if Korea was less nationalistic they would maybe be more open to world studies. Shutting out foreign language is shutting out so much learning and thus should be discouraged. I think everything that needs to be said has been said though.

Offline Ramplo

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 12:29:41 PM »
I have to say I agree with the student to a point. 

I worked retail in the US, and I took French in high school.  It was very frustrating when Spanish speakers would come in and get angry because I didn't speak Spanish.  It was a pretty small town and most of them had been living there for over five years, but it was my fault we couldn't communicate.

So yes I agree that you should at least be able to get by with the basics wherever you go, there's nothing I hate more than the "I speak English and it's a tourist city so they'll speak it there" attitude.

My concern is that beyond this point the student in question (and others) will still get frustrated and angry because they just aren't reasonable.  We see plenty of trolls on here, and they're out on the streets too. 

Learn the basics, but keep the hate to a minimum.

Offline Chadwickhhs

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Re: "This is Korea. Speak Korean."
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2012, 01:07:04 PM »
I want to repeat to the new people who revived this thread that this kid said that sentence in Korean, to a Korean who is fluent in Korean and was speaking English to a teacher in an English room.

This isn't a "I hate angry tourists who think I should know their language." This is one dumb kid trying to bring down a studious and inspired student with shame.

Offline JahRhythm

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Re: Not Speaking English As A Point of Pride
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2012, 03:41:06 PM »
Yeah, the original point of this thread has been hopelessly lost.
I thought the OP changing the title might help, but not so much.
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Offline kiwityke

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Re: Not Speaking English As A Point of Pride
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2012, 08:44:37 AM »
Must admit I have never encountered the attitude that English shouldn't be spoken as a point of national pride. I have encountered many people who speak very good English and refuse to out of shyness and embarrassment. They would rather play dumb than lose face in front of their peers.

I think the girl who pulled the other girl down was doing it out of jealousy as her English isn't as good or she doesn't have the confidence to use it. She just used national pride as an excuse for her own ignorance, as is normally the way with these things.