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Author Topic: Site Moderation  (Read 38959 times)

Offline taeyang

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #160 on: August 27, 2014, 11:17:34 AM »
for the most part, all warnings are issued with the direct quote that warranted the warning, that way there's always context about why the person is being warned.
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Online Pattinsons

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #161 on: August 27, 2014, 11:34:46 AM »
If hart is targeting the moderator from the abortion post then then I do believe that he is wrong. I read some, but not all of the moderators replies on the post. They were respectful. To paraphrase the moderator thought that the post was a legitimate post. The OP was asking for what it would cost. The OP never made a moral/political judgement on the abortion. Hart started preaching about how the every notion that someone what be interested in an abortion as offensive. If you disagreed with him you were being abusive. Hart in his ignorance didn't comprehend that someone might have a different religion or political view on the topic.

This is a blatant waste of time.

Offline mxm407

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #162 on: August 27, 2014, 11:56:56 AM »
Hart just sent me this by email:

I am having difficultu understanding why some memebers and the mods. Are derailimg the thread amd targeting the abortion post/iamrhart. Where the topic is CLEARLY about what actions to take. not about "why did iamrhart post".  Could you please offer your insight. Or inform a moderator. As i am unable to contact through posting amd PMs
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Offline aklimkewicz

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #163 on: August 27, 2014, 12:08:10 PM »
If hart is targeting the moderator from the abortion post then then I do believe that he is wrong. I read some, but not all of the moderators replies on the post. They were respectful. To paraphrase the moderator thought that the post was a legitimate post. The OP was asking for what it would cost. The OP never made a moral/political judgement on the abortion. Hart started preaching about how the every notion that someone what be interested in an abortion as offensive. If you disagreed with him you were being abusive. Hart in his ignorance didn't comprehend that someone might have a different religion or political view on the topic.

This is a blatant waste of time.

Moralistic arguments aside, I wonder the validity of providing information to commit a crime in this country where most of us live. Obviously, Korea takes a hardline (on paper) against abortion, as well as prostitution and drug use like marijuana consumption. Commentators have argued the merits and detriments of both of those issues (just like abortion), but it would not be acceptable to read about either 'social ill' in an informative, how to post on this site. Why is abortion any different?

I'm not arguing that Mr. Hart didn't derail the thread. That sort of thing should be moderated. I'm wondering why Confusedsaffer's comment was likewise deleted, (pointing out the illegality of the issue) when it is clear that users here are advocating for breaking Korean law. Is it up to the moderators of the site to decide which topics of an illegal nature in Korea are to be tolerated on Waygook.org?
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Offline RotGutPirate

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #164 on: August 27, 2014, 12:12:48 PM »

HANDS UP
DON'T SHOOT!
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Offline Space

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #165 on: August 27, 2014, 12:20:21 PM »
This thread is a joke.

Those in this thread who are complaining about mods are the exact people I've seen being justifiably moderated at times.

I think the mods here do a great job. They're not paid to do it. It's a big site and they give us their time freely. I think moderating is a thankless task. They appear to strike a good balance.

Hart, for whatever reasons, couldn't let it drop. He doesn't have the power to dictate what can and cannot be discussed on this board and he wasn't happy about that. He threw his toys out of the cot and got muted. End of story. 

Offline ciannagh

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #166 on: August 27, 2014, 12:23:08 PM »
This thread is a joke.

Those in this thread who are complaining about mods are the exact people I've seen being justifiably moderated at times.

I think the mods here do a great job. They're not paid to do it. It's a big site and they give us their time freely. I think moderating is a thankless task. They appear to strike a good balance.

Hart, for whatever reasons, couldn't let it drop. He doesn't have the power to dictate what can and cannot be discussed on this board and he wasn't happy about that. He threw his toys out of the cot and got muted. End of story.

THIS.

Offline mxm407

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #167 on: August 27, 2014, 12:55:42 PM »
This thread is a joke.

Those in this thread who are complaining about mods are the exact people I've seen being justifiably moderated at times.

I think the mods here do a great job. They're not paid to do it. It's a big site and they give us their time freely. I think moderating is a thankless task. They appear to strike a good balance.

Hart, for whatever reasons, couldn't let it drop. He doesn't have the power to dictate what can and cannot be discussed on this board and he wasn't happy about that. He threw his toys out of the cot and got muted. End of story.

Thankfully Space you also don't get to dictate what people get to talk about here. Nor do you get to decide what is or isn't justifiable moderation (thank god).

I said that most of the moderators are doing a great job. I also said that it would be a good idea if there was more clarity offered by moderators in terms of why they have moderated or banned a user. Davey answered my suggestion by saying that people can appeal a moderation or ban by emailing a 3rd level moderator.

So yes, the story had ended but then you decided to throw in your 10 cents worth.
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Offline Davey

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #168 on: August 27, 2014, 01:04:23 PM »
If hart is targeting the moderator from the abortion post then then I do believe that he is wrong. I read some, but not all of the moderators replies on the post. They were respectful. To paraphrase the moderator thought that the post was a legitimate post. The OP was asking for what it would cost. The OP never made a moral/political judgement on the abortion. Hart started preaching about how the every notion that someone what be interested in an abortion as offensive. If you disagreed with him you were being abusive. Hart in his ignorance didn't comprehend that someone might have a different religion or political view on the topic.

This is a blatant waste of time.

Moralistic arguments aside, I wonder the validity of providing information to commit a crime in this country where most of us live. Obviously, Korea takes a hardline (on paper) against abortion, as well as prostitution and drug use like marijuana consumption. Commentators have argued the merits and detriments of both of those issues (just like abortion), but it would not be acceptable to read about either 'social ill' in an informative, how to post on this site. Why is abortion any different?

I'm not arguing that Mr. Hart didn't derail the thread. That sort of thing should be moderated. I'm wondering why Confusedsaffer's comment was likewise deleted, (pointing out the illegality of the issue) when it is clear that users here are advocating for breaking Korean law. Is it up to the moderators of the site to decide which topics of an illegal nature in Korea are to be tolerated on Waygook.org?

his post was deleted because it derailed the thread and was provocative in nature. while that may have not been the intent (he tried to justify the post by saying he doesnt mean to provoke anybody) , but thats exactly what happened and the thread got derailed. I also know that saffer is religious (catholic if my memory serves me correctly..based on old posts) so it was clear to me that his post was partly because it was against his beliefs (like harts).
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Offline TeachaTeacha

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #169 on: August 27, 2014, 01:09:58 PM »
I agree with Space. Mods, I think it's safe to assume that most members think you're doing a fine job... with the exception of those who regularly violate the ToS, of course.

mxm407: You're not helping your case by trying to get a rise out of a mod with that signature.

Offline aklimkewicz

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #170 on: August 27, 2014, 01:16:39 PM »
his post was deleted because it derailed the thread and was provocative in nature. while that may have not been the intent (he tried to justify the post by saying he doesnt mean to provoke anybody) , but thats exactly what happened and the thread got derailed. I also know that saffer is religious (catholic if my memory serves me correctly..based on old posts) so it was clear to me that his post was partly because it was against his beliefs (like harts).

Fair enough. If someone makes a provocative post just to start a flame war, then it should be moderated. But, I'd still like some illumination for the fuzzy line between which legal activities  in our homelands vs. illegal acts here are appropriate for the Waygook boards.
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Offline ciannagh

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #171 on: August 27, 2014, 01:20:54 PM »
his post was deleted because it derailed the thread and was provocative in nature. while that may have not been the intent (he tried to justify the post by saying he doesnt mean to provoke anybody) , but thats exactly what happened and the thread got derailed. I also know that saffer is religious (catholic if my memory serves me correctly..based on old posts) so it was clear to me that his post was partly because it was against his beliefs (like harts).

Fair enough. If someone makes a provocative post just to start a flame war, then it should be moderated. But, I'd still like some illumination for the fuzzy line between which legal activities  in our homelands vs. illegal acts here are appropriate for the Waygook boards.

As far as the abortion topic, I feel it was a relevant board for a few reasons. However, I'm not going to go into these reasons because this is neither the time nor place, but if you'd like to see why I feel it's a relevant topic (not that what I think matters anyhow, but perhaps the mods feel it's relevant for some of the same reasons I do) feel free to PM me. I'm always up to discussion.

Offline Space

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #172 on: August 27, 2014, 01:23:28 PM »
This thread is a joke.

Those in this thread who are complaining about mods are the exact people I've seen being justifiably moderated at times.

I think the mods here do a great job. They're not paid to do it. It's a big site and they give us their time freely. I think moderating is a thankless task. They appear to strike a good balance.

Hart, for whatever reasons, couldn't let it drop. He doesn't have the power to dictate what can and cannot be discussed on this board and he wasn't happy about that. He threw his toys out of the cot and got muted. End of story.

Thankfully Space you also don't get to dictate what people get to talk about here. Nor do you get to decide what is or isn't justifiable moderation (thank god).

I said that most of the moderators are doing a great job. I also said that it would be a good idea if there was more clarity offered by moderators in terms of why they have moderated or banned a user. Davey answered my suggestion by saying that people can appeal a moderation or ban by emailing a 3rd level moderator.

So yes, the story had ended but then you decided to throw in your 10 cents worth.

Despite you bringing in the personal pronoun 'I', my post wasn't directed at you. I don't reciprocate the same preoccupation that you appear to have for me. In fact, I would quite like to block you if I knew it would mean that not only I couldn't see you, but I would disappear for you, too. I'm not a fan of censorship, but I'm too old to care for juvenile behaviour. 

As for what you said here, this is a forum where it is allowed to throw your 10cents worth. I am allowed to have an opinion. And I am allowed to express that opinion here as long as it stays within the realms of not causing offence. Which is what I always strive to do as a person.  Do you?

And just where have I tried to dictate what is and what is not talked about to the extent that Hart did the other day? Never is the answer. I don't think I've even done that a little bit ever with my whole time here. Feel free to trawl though my history again to try an refute that.

Offline MasanMan

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #173 on: August 27, 2014, 01:39:57 PM »
his post was deleted because it derailed the thread and was provocative in nature. while that may have not been the intent (he tried to justify the post by saying he doesnt mean to provoke anybody) , but thats exactly what happened and the thread got derailed. I also know that saffer is religious (catholic if my memory serves me correctly..based on old posts) so it was clear to me that his post was partly because it was against his beliefs (like harts).

Fair enough. If someone makes a provocative post just to start a flame war, then it should be moderated. But, I'd still like some illumination for the fuzzy line between which legal activities  in our homelands vs. illegal acts here are appropriate for the Waygook boards.

This is a valid point. Why allow discussions and advice on one illegal thing, but not others?

his post was deleted because it derailed the thread and was provocative in nature. while that may have not been the intent (he tried to justify the post by saying he doesnt mean to provoke anybody) , but thats exactly what happened and the thread got derailed. I also know that saffer is religious (catholic if my memory serves me correctly..based on old posts) so it was clear to me that his post was partly because it was against his beliefs (like harts).

Fair enough. If someone makes a provocative post just to start a flame war, then it should be moderated. But, I'd still like some illumination for the fuzzy line between which legal activities  in our homelands vs. illegal acts here are appropriate for the Waygook boards.

As far as the abortion topic, I feel it was a relevant board for a few reasons. However, I'm not going to go into these reasons because this is neither the time nor place, but if you'd like to see why I feel it's a relevant topic (not that what I think matters anyhow, but perhaps the mods feel it's relevant for some of the same reasons I do) feel free to PM me. I'm always up to discussion.

Weren't feelings and opinions the reason this whole thing started? Some people are for abortion and some against, but feelings and opinions shouldn't come into play. Abortion is illegal in Korea. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't advice on illegal activities banned on this forum? Is there a special exception for abortion because the law banning abortion isn't really enforced? Some clarification would be nice.

Offline Arsalan

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #174 on: August 27, 2014, 02:17:35 PM »
I didn't realize this thread would get so many replies, but it should be somewhat of an indication to most people that despite some of the obvious attempts at getting reactions from the mods, they have a a relatively balanced approach to moderating the site.

There are things that aren't perfect with moderation, that's why we will typically discuss an issue if it seems borderline against the TOS.  We also don't always catch everything, so bringing it to our attention helps in those cases.

I can see the point about outlining examples of TOS violations a little more clearly.  The main point of the TOS is to keep the site uncluttered, and professional enough for anyone to access from work.

There are "hot topic" discussions at times, but the only threads we really lock down are when they are religious in nature.  This is not because we are for or against anything, but they typically derail very quickly with insults, etc.

It's one thing to post to a thread about abortion, whether you choose to provide a health warning, or otherwise, and something else when you're inciting reactions.  We also consider posting history when we look at these type of posts. 

The majority of the work done by mods is organization of the site, lesson plans, etc.  We'll discuss adding more information to the TOS for clarity as per your suggestions.
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Offline aklimkewicz

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #175 on: August 27, 2014, 02:28:49 PM »
Thank you Arsalan!
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Offline kyndo

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #176 on: August 27, 2014, 03:01:52 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't advice on illegal activities banned on this forum? Is there a special exception for abortion because the law banning abortion isn't really enforced? Some clarification would be nice.
If giving advice on illegal activities isn't banned, then it should be.

That said, there are a lot of informative threads that deal with issues that skirt the line of legality here in Korea. For example, advice on tutoring (I would bet several packs of ramen that those people asking for advice on pricing etc do not have permission from their employer, nor report their earnings to the government...), adding shady hagwons to blacklists, finding tattoo parlors, how to perform successful midnight runs etc etc.

All of these things are illegal here, but are undeniably useful. I'm guessing that many teachers who would otherwise have been royally screwed have benefited greatly from such advice. 

Clarity can be pretty hard to find in these situations: it just makes me glad that I'm not a moderator!  :laugh:

Offline Epistemology

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #177 on: August 27, 2014, 03:59:31 PM »
If hart is targeting the moderator from the abortion post then then I do believe that he is wrong. I read some, but not all of the moderators replies on the post. They were respectful. To paraphrase the moderator thought that the post was a legitimate post. The OP was asking for what it would cost. The OP never made a moral/political judgement on the abortion. Hart started preaching about how the every notion that someone what be interested in an abortion as offensive. If you disagreed with him you were being abusive. Hart in his ignorance didn't comprehend that someone might have a different religion or political view on the topic.

This is a blatant waste of time.

Moralistic arguments aside, I wonder the validity of providing information to commit a crime in this country where most of us live. Obviously, Korea takes a hardline (on paper) against abortion, as well as prostitution and drug use like marijuana consumption. Commentators have argued the merits and detriments of both of those issues (just like abortion), but it would not be acceptable to read about either 'social ill' in an informative, how to post on this site. Why is abortion any different?

I'm not arguing that Mr. Hart didn't derail the thread. That sort of thing should be moderated. I'm wondering why Confusedsaffer's comment was likewise deleted, (pointing out the illegality of the issue) when it is clear that users here are advocating for breaking Korean law. Is it up to the moderators of the site to decide which topics of an illegal nature in Korea are to be tolerated on Waygook.org?

He was picking and choosing what laws he wanted to follow, then had the gall to call others out for doing the same thing. Stones and Glass houses. That sort of thing.
There are a lot of things that we do on these boards that are "On paper"  illegal under Korean law. Just have a gander at some of the comments in some of the bashfest topics, some of which would fall foul of defamation laws, which amusingly enough are far more serious crimes in real terms under Korean law than abortion, which is, like prostitution laws, almost never enforced.



to the others:

One thing I think everyone here forgets is that as a community we are supposed to help each other. If someone is in serious trouble, we HELP them. Anything less  I would say GTFO. Thats just me though. The idea of being selfish and moralising on issues when someone is in a predicament and needs help is downright disgusting and says a lot about the character of thy judgmental one.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 04:07:54 PM by Epistemology »
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Offline scholes

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #178 on: August 27, 2014, 04:28:09 PM »
Playing dumb with mods is always a recipe for getting modded. Even when the mod is being an unreasonable idiot after they tell you not to do a specific thing and you pull the 9 year-old act of "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" by going 99% of the way of doing what you were told not to then you're gonna get smacked. I spent a good chunk of my posts on this site harassing dumb trolls and I've never been moderated. I've never even been cautioned and I straight up seek out conflict with people sometimes.

If you feel like you're being harassed by a mod on more than one occasion then just stop posting for a while. If you start topics branded as trollish or derail a bunch in short time period then you'll get hunted. Cool your head and ditch the topics. If you get managed by mods on a consistent basis while in a normal state of mind then you're in the wrong community and are deservedly being driven away.

I don't think it's fair to say we're "unreasonable idiots", because we are the exact opposite.

You don't get warned because you're an apologist and you trash foreigners like a racist bigot. Doing it the other way around and you will be warned, will be banned, will be blocked.
You just bit the hand that feeds you by calling them idiots. That was a direct insult and you still never got warned.

Be greatfull that you are an apologist and a racist bigot towards foreigners cos you guys hardly ever get warned.

Offline KLM

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Re: Moderator Harassment
« Reply #179 on: August 27, 2014, 04:59:45 PM »
Be greatfull that you are an apologist and a racist bigot towards foreigners cos you guys hardly ever get warned.

This guy gets pushed by an ajumma on the bus. Immediately gets on waygook.org (his personal blog): "I HAVE JUST EXPERIANCED RACEST BAHEVORI, THEIR COUDL'NT OF BEEN ANY OTHER RAESONIG BEHIND IT EXCSCEPT RACEST"