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Author Topic: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers  (Read 8921 times)

Offline Chadwickhhs

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2012, 12:01:17 PM »
The dualist paradigm of the left-right spectrum is something I'm not in love with but people who tend to self define as liberal do tend to be more intelligent. Hard science masters and nobel prize winners are largely "left" leaning, often but not always secularist, thinkers.

The real problem with the acceptance of the left right assumption is that all issues can be summed up to equal and opposing sides and often to the discredit of alternative approaches. This is why you'll sometimes have a weird moment of overlap with an opposite side spectrum person depending on the issue.

I also think that the statement that high IQ people have less empathy is childish nonsense perpetuated by cartoons and 1950s space dramas. If high IQ people weren't considerate of others you wouldn't have free water cleansing systems being distributed in Africa. You wouldn't have a polio vaccine distributed at no cost for herd immunity. You wouldn't have opensource software and the world's largest internet encyclopedia being available to all and any. That "smart people are dicks" thing is an element of drama that gives an Achilles heel to a character conflict in tv. And cracked.com is the same comedy website that put out "why zombie invasions are ridiculous and basically impossible" and "why zombie attacks are more likely than you realize". It's a joke site.

Offline Jrong

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2012, 12:07:10 PM »
If high IQ people weren't considerate of others you wouldn't have free water cleansing systems being distributed in Africa. You wouldn't have a polio vaccine distributed at no cost for herd immunity. You wouldn't have opensource software and the world's largest internet encyclopedia being available to all and any.
I doubt any of those people are "high IQ" people. By high IQ we're meaning 140+. As someone who's worked in the humanitarian fields for years I have yet to meet a genius who developed programs like these. Above avg IQ? Sure, most humanitarians probably do have an above avg IQ. But genius? Nope. I have, however, met quite a few geniuses who are right-wing businessmen.

Show some facts, buddy. I would love to believe that left-wingers are more intelligent. As for genius-level IQ people being less empathic (on average)...it seems pretty straightforward, read what's been written already...
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Offline Frozencat99

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2012, 12:33:39 PM »
If high IQ people weren't considerate of others you wouldn't have free water cleansing systems being distributed in Africa. You wouldn't have a polio vaccine distributed at no cost for herd immunity. You wouldn't have opensource software and the world's largest internet encyclopedia being available to all and any.
I doubt any of those people are "high IQ" people. By high IQ we're meaning 140+. As someone who's worked in the humanitarian fields for years I have yet to meet a genius who developed programs like these. Above avg IQ? Sure, most humanitarians probably do have an above avg IQ. But genius? Nope. I have, however, met quite a few geniuses who are right-wing businessmen.

Show some facts, buddy. I would love to believe that left-wingers are more intelligent. As for genius-level IQ people being less empathic (on average)...it seems pretty straightforward, read what's been written already...

Why are you calling for facts when all you've done is list some anecdotal evidence?
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Offline Chadwickhhs

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2012, 12:35:52 PM »
Your evidence of "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is anecdotal at best. If you want some Hollywood history consider the following.

In the United States in the 1950s, with the introduction of the atomic bomb and the American hunt to scoop up all of the Jewish scientists out of Germany before Russia did, scientific advancement began to have a certain image. A simple glance at the Nobel prizes for the last century will show you what I'm talking about. Approximately 30% of the 1900-1950 Nobel prizes were won by Jewish guys. Now why does this matter? Well, see even in America after the war Jews weren't very well liked. Combine the exclusionary (blood lineage) identity of the Jew and the academic advancement of the cherry picked scientists (while the average ones were left tragically to die) and you have a middle and lower class resentment of the "snobby" Jewish element. The anti-intellectualism that followed was popularized in television as portraying intelligent people (the frame-swap for Jew) as greedy, selfish, snooty and "unchristian". Intelligence was sabotaged and unwavering loyalty and dogmatism highlighted. The effects of this media framing still affect us today.

Now I'm an athiest born to a catholic family so what do I know. I did study broadcast history and law so I can fly back to America and pick up the sources if you want (I'm not gonna do that... Why would anyone do that?).

Offline Jrong

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2012, 12:42:52 PM »
What I just said was anecdotal, it was more like saying: "So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."  (which no one has taken the time to do yet). That "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is not my evidence, just a "hey, prove me wrong since I've already given hard evidence" which you fail to do my friend.

I did, however, post plenty of facts on page 2 of this thread. Facts which currently prove you wrong (until you can prove them wrong). Just because the studies are linked off of cracked.com doesn't make them any less true/relevant. They're still scientific studies done by unis.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 12:50:24 PM by Jrong »
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Offline flasyb

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2012, 12:57:12 PM »
Hey flasyb,

High IQ is linked to social awkwardness. Here's a link with plenty of links to studies:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19174_5-unexpected-downsides-high-intelligence.html

I read this. Not convincing. I'm currently reading one of the studies cited by this article. The study cited as apparently showing the link between intelligence and poor social skills actually states the opposite here:

http://shawneehistory.tripod.com/16.pdf

Quote
There is a generic inverse relationship between intelligence and rule breaking that has been observed
across a wide spectrum of behaviors. For example,
intelligence is negatively correlated with acquiescence, crime, delinquency, truancy, and out-of-wedlock births, and conversely is positively correlated with moral reasoning and development, and social
skills (6 8).  For some forms of rule-breaking, the
relationship with intelligence may be significantly
nonlinear (9)

The study actually concerns itself with the relationship between sexual activity in adolescents including under-age sex (teen pregnancy and suchlike) and intelligence. Entirely in adolescents. Really, I think this "evidence" that you have provided is poor if not entirely contradictory to your own statements. However, I will continue reading and search for my own evidence.

As things stand I'm still convinced, as another user said, that you have a negative and mistaken cartoon stereotype of someone with a high IQ.

That being said, as we already have established, IQ is probably not the best indicator of overall intelligence so I suspect that evidence I do find will show a positive correlation between high intelligence and empathy but not necessarily between high IQs and empathy. In that sense, we might end up arguing two different sides of a similar coin.
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Offline Chadwickhhs

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2012, 01:13:51 PM »
Exactly right flasyb. There is a fundamental difference between Anti-social behavior and Non-social behavior. And contrary to most television shows, most anti-social people are compulsive and poor planners. Hannibal Lecter is not the true face of anti-social. Most non-socials are quiet and probably in their rooms playing dragon warrior.

Offline flasyb

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2012, 01:27:39 PM »
Exactly right flasyb. There is a fundamental difference between Anti-social behavior and Non-social behavior. And contrary to most television shows, most anti-social people are compulsive and poor planners. Hannibal Lecter is not the true face of anti-social. Most non-socials are quiet and probably in their rooms playing dragon warrior.

I certainly wouldn't consider Hannibal Lecter unsocial. He's a gentleman monster. Were it not for his carnal tendencies, I might accept an invitation to dinner from him  ;) .


Ultimately, there is a positive correlation between high intelligence and good social skills. Whether that extends to people in the IQ range that Jrong is talking about is another question. I suspect it does but I'd rather drop IQ from the debate and compare actual intelligence from a range of methods including Social IQ and EQ.
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Offline Davox

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2012, 01:36:32 PM »
What I just said was anecdotal, it was more like saying: "So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."  (which no one has taken the time to do yet). That "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is not my evidence, just a "hey, prove me wrong since I've already given hard evidence" which you fail to do my friend.

I did, however, post plenty of facts on page 2 of this thread. Facts which currently prove you wrong (until you can prove them wrong). Just because the studies are linked off of cracked.com doesn't make them any less true/relevant. They're still scientific studies done by unis.

Most people ignored your "facts" because they were as inconclusive as the rest of the crap in this thread.  You quoted cracked.com and wikipedia.   The wikipedia article doesn't actually support any of your claims at all, and is instead an explanation of EI/EQ, including reasons why most people consider it a pretty crappy measure of anything.  Which, like IQ, it is.  IMO, of course, but many people agree with me, including ones with very high IQ and EQ.  The cracked article you linked at least does link to journal articles, but the only article it links that directly supports your position at all states (when you actually read the thing, which I did) only that there is an inverse realtionship between vocabulary size in high school and likelyhood of having had sex there. 

So I guess if you believe that people don't mature after highschool and that having sex is the most emotionally mature thing a person could ever do, then you'd be correct.

The fact is that we don't really and can't really have proper "facts" about these sorts of things, because we just don't have useful definitions of things like intelligence, emotional maturity, or even simpler things like left and right wing.  This thread was always going to be, like you said:

"So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."

except that no proof is possible on either side.



...although, for you to demand, for no real reason, that the entire burden of proof lies on the other side is a sadly common yet pretty crappy debating tactic, BTW.

 

Offline Jrong

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2012, 02:25:25 PM »
What I just said was anecdotal, it was more like saying: "So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."  (which no one has taken the time to do yet). That "I met a really rich dude who was totally smart but a jerk" is not my evidence, just a "hey, prove me wrong since I've already given hard evidence" which you fail to do my friend.

I did, however, post plenty of facts on page 2 of this thread. Facts which currently prove you wrong (until you can prove them wrong). Just because the studies are linked off of cracked.com doesn't make them any less true/relevant. They're still scientific studies done by unis.

Most people ignored your "facts" because they were as inconclusive as the rest of the crap in this thread.  You quoted cracked.com and wikipedia.   
I hope you're owning up to your own crappy contributions, too. So I was wrong about the study, what's new? No, seriously, I sincerely apologize for wasting anyone's time on that, I got it wrong there. Hell, I was too lazy to actually read through the study and just took cracked.com's explanation of it (which was misleading).

Quote
The wikipedia article doesn't actually support any of your claims at all, and is instead an explanation of EI/EQ, including reasons why most people consider it a pretty crappy measure of anything. Which, like IQ, it is. IMO, of course
There are a lot of criticisms of EI, but it's still accepted by a wide-range of people, smart people too :). To say that most people (like over %50) consider IQ a crappy measure of anything may be true but to say that most high-IQ people consider it a crappy measure of anything has got to be completely false for common sense reasons. The definition of EQ did completely support my claim that High IQ people have lower EQ's. Problem is it relied on a logical "link" that says High IQ people are more socially awkward. The study didn't give me that "fact" at all, instead cracked.com inferred it, misleadingly. Again, apologies but thanks for keeping me honest.

Quote
So I guess if you believe that people don't mature after highschool and that having sex is the most emotionally mature thing a person could ever do, then you'd be correct.
We're talking in broad generalizations here. I do believe that generally, having at least some sexual partners is a sign of emotional/social maturity -- moreso than not. If social intelligence is closely linked to emotional intelligence (seems to be under the current definitions), then never having had a sexual partner would mean being more unempathic (lower EQ). The study only focused on highschool students, which admittedly, is flawed b/c they can mature, sure. If the study was about adults not having sex...then I'd be confirmed in my suspicions.

Quote
The fact is that we don't really and can't really have proper "facts" about these sorts of things, because we just don't have useful definitions of things like intelligence, emotional maturity, or even simpler things like left and right wing. 
I'm not convinced we can't find out "facts" about the link between genius IQ and empathy.

Quote
This thread was always going to be, like you said:

"So, I'm convinced of this ___ please prove me wrong."

except that no proof is possible on either side.


...although, for you to demand, for no real reason, that the entire burden of proof lies on the other side is a sadly common yet pretty crappy debating tactic, BTW.

Of course there's a real reason, I actually do care to know. I'm curious. I'm posting on an internet forum filled with desk-warming ppl who have nothing better to do with their time than be on this forum (apparently), so it's not unjust for me to demand proof b/c I'm curious and "YOU" have a lot of time on your hands. You are lost, my friend, if you think all I want is a debate. It's not about debating (trying to prove your side is right) no matter how misleading my wording has been, I just want to know. I believe I can know. I was banking on somebody being heavily emotionally invested in this topic enough to give some cold hard facts but the fact is, when I take a step back I see that this topic is kinda lame. I want to know, but not bad enough to stop watching documentaries and actually read through the long-ass study I posted, apparently. ;)

No worries.
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Offline Chadwickhhs

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Re: Right-wingers are less intelligent than left-wingers
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2012, 02:57:35 PM »
Totally desk warming here. But I don't want to be too obvious about doing nothing. I'm new to this and all. 8)