October 19, 2017, 03:29:01 AM


Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 521455 times)

Offline kobayashi

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6660 on: July 12, 2017, 11:41:36 AM »
yeah i know. of course you can't take out 240 mil in loans from the bank and just invest it.

i was using it more as an illustration of how much the jeonse system can be a rip-off.

Offline twinsaurus

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6661 on: July 12, 2017, 11:48:22 AM »
We've been doing Jeonse in our current place for 3 years now (contract ending next March) and heard today that the Landlady who bought it 1 year ago wants to sell up.

We moved in paying 240 million. The Landlady after we were there for 2 years sold it on and we stayed on as tenants to the new Landlady but our Jeonse increased to 290 million. Now, she wants to sell it for 330 million. Absolutely maddening prices!

Totally gutted that we didn't buy the place rather than taking out Jeonse as 240 million seems like a steal now. Would have made almost 100 million profit.

You paid 240 million for jeonse but you had the option to buy for the same amount. I don't quite understand, but that is an insane amount. Curious if this is in Seoul, some other metropolis, or a smaller area?

my god .... you paid 240 mil for jeonse?

putting that money in index funds - which usually average 7-8% per year - would have netted you a return on investment of around 17 to 19 million Won. per year.

Am I wrong in thinking that jeonse is usually paid using a bank loan? Me and my husband have a jeonse apartment for 190 million in Busan. We paid a 40 mill deposit and the rest is a loan that we pay interest on (a few hundred k per month). We will repay the loan when we leave the apartment and get the jeonse back. In my experience it's an awesome win-win way for everyone - I get a sweet apartment for 350k "rent" every month, the landlord invests the jeonse to get interest, and the bank gets to reap interest on a relatively low-risk loan. Wish they had this system back in the states.

Offline iamsam

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6662 on: July 12, 2017, 11:50:19 AM »
Do you mind posting some pictures of what 330,000,0000 gets you in the outskirts of Seoul.  I've been to Anyang, some parts are nice, but other are shitholes and filthy.  Just wondering if 330,000,000 gets you into the nicer areas.  Cheers.

Offline Savant

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6663 on: July 12, 2017, 12:11:51 PM »
We've been doing Jeonse in our current place for 3 years now (contract ending next March) and heard today that the Landlady who bought it 1 year ago wants to sell up.

We moved in paying 240 million. The Landlady after we were there for 2 years sold it on and we stayed on as tenants to the new Landlady but our Jeonse increased to 290 million. Now, she wants to sell it for 330 million. Absolutely maddening prices!

Totally gutted that we didn't buy the place rather than taking out Jeonse as 240 million seems like a steal now. Would have made almost 100 million profit.

You paid 240 million for jeonse but you had the option to buy for the same amount. I don't quite understand, but that is an insane amount. Curious if this is in Seoul, some other metropolis, or a smaller area?

my god .... you paid 240 mil for jeonse?

putting that money in index funds - which usually average 7-8% per year - would have netted you a return on investment of around 17 to 19 million Won. per year.

Am I wrong in thinking that jeonse is usually paid using a bank loan? Me and my husband have a jeonse apartment for 190 million in Busan. We paid a 40 mill deposit and the rest is a loan that we pay interest on (a few hundred k per month). We will repay the loan when we leave the apartment and get the jeonse back. In my experience it's an awesome win-win way for everyone - I get a sweet apartment for 350k "rent" every month, the landlord invests the jeonse to get interest, and the bank gets to reap interest on a relatively low-risk loan. Wish they had this system back in the states.

Similar to us. 50 million was our own money. 190 million on loans. We pay 500k in monthly interest back to the bank. It is a nice system but also one that could come down like a house of cards.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6664 on: July 12, 2017, 12:19:11 PM »
We've been doing Jeonse in our current place for 3 years now (contract ending next March) and heard today that the Landlady who bought it 1 year ago wants to sell up.

We moved in paying 240 million. The Landlady after we were there for 2 years sold it on and we stayed on as tenants to the new Landlady but our Jeonse increased to 290 million. Now, she wants to sell it for 330 million. Absolutely maddening prices!

Totally gutted that we didn't buy the place rather than taking out Jeonse as 240 million seems like a steal now. Would have made almost 100 million profit.

You paid 240 million for jeonse but you had the option to buy for the same amount. I don't quite understand, but that is an insane amount. Curious if this is in Seoul, some other metropolis, or a smaller area?

my god .... you paid 240 mil for jeonse?

putting that money in index funds - which usually average 7-8% per year - would have netted you a return on investment of around 17 to 19 million Won. per year.

Am I wrong in thinking that jeonse is usually paid using a bank loan? Me and my husband have a jeonse apartment for 190 million in Busan. We paid a 40 mill deposit and the rest is a loan that we pay interest on (a few hundred k per month). We will repay the loan when we leave the apartment and get the jeonse back. In my experience it's an awesome win-win way for everyone - I get a sweet apartment for 350k "rent" every month, the landlord invests the jeonse to get interest, and the bank gets to reap interest on a relatively low-risk loan. Wish they had this system back in the states.

When we had a 40 000 000 won 'weolse' a couple of years ago to get a 34 pyeong, the bank did an 'interest only' loan for 32 000 000 won and we stumped up the 8 000 000 won.  That was only for a year, and then we got another place the same size, for the same 'interest only' for another year.  Then in the new city next to ours, a brand new apartment of the same size and 'weolse' was going for just 10 000 000 won.  We snapped that up.  But this time we paid with only our money.  I think the 'interest only' we paid was 70 000 won a month.  But now we have no monthly to pay, which feels nicer.

My wife kind of complained recently because her friends bought their houses, we don't live in Seoul, we're in Chungnam.  I mean we're talking Central Seoul and 600 000 000+ won in Ahyeon and Dongdaemun and they have jobs for Samsung and as Dongdaemun night market retailers so are raking it in. They have really nice apartments but that kind of outlay for 20-24 pyeong or so, doesn't seem worth it.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:21:06 PM by Dave Stepz »

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6665 on: July 12, 2017, 12:49:55 PM »
Wow.

The numbers being thrown around are crazy.

Where have I been?

The standard used to be 10,000,000 KRW for every 100,000 KRW in rent.

Meaning, if the place had 100,000,000 deposit only option, you could substitute monthly for whatever portion of the deposit you didn't have.  If you only had 10,000,000 down, you would pay 900,000 a month in rent, or 50,000,000 down and 500,000 a month, etc.

I'm more than a little shocked by what I am hearing, as it sounds like some users are saying, given my example,  one could actually put down 100,000,000 deposit only option that was simply secured via the bank and only pay 200,000-300,000 a month on a place that we pay $1,000 a month to live in.

(scratching head)  You guys can't be serious.

Offline iamsam

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6666 on: July 12, 2017, 12:55:06 PM »
We've been doing Jeonse in our current place for 3 years now (contract ending next March) and heard today that the Landlady who bought it 1 year ago wants to sell up.

We moved in paying 240 million. The Landlady after we were there for 2 years sold it on and we stayed on as tenants to the new Landlady but our Jeonse increased to 290 million. Now, she wants to sell it for 330 million. Absolutely maddening prices!

Totally gutted that we didn't buy the place rather than taking out Jeonse as 240 million seems like a steal now. Would have made almost 100 million profit.

You paid 240 million for jeonse but you had the option to buy for the same amount. I don't quite understand, but that is an insane amount. Curious if this is in Seoul, some other metropolis, or a smaller area?

my god .... you paid 240 mil for jeonse?

putting that money in index funds - which usually average 7-8% per year - would have netted you a return on investment of around 17 to 19 million Won. per year.

Am I wrong in thinking that jeonse is usually paid using a bank loan? Me and my husband have a jeonse apartment for 190 million in Busan. We paid a 40 mill deposit and the rest is a loan that we pay interest on (a few hundred k per month). We will repay the loan when we leave the apartment and get the jeonse back. In my experience it's an awesome win-win way for everyone - I get a sweet apartment for 350k "rent" every month, the landlord invests the jeonse to get interest, and the bank gets to reap interest on a relatively low-risk loan. Wish they had this system back in the states.

When we had a 40 000 000 won 'weolse' a couple of years ago to get a 34 pyeong, the bank did an 'interest only' loan for 32 000 000 won and we stumped up the 8 000 000 won.  That was only for a year, and then we got another place the same size, for the same 'interest only' for another year.  Then in the new city next to ours, a brand new apartment of the same size and 'weolse' was going for just 10 000 000 won.  We snapped that up.  But this time we paid with only our money.  I think the 'interest only' we paid was 70 000 won a month.  But now we have no monthly to pay, which feels nicer.

My wife kind of complained recently because her friends bought their houses, we don't live in Seoul, we're in Chungnam.  I mean we're talking Central Seoul and 600 000 000+ won in Ahyeon and Dongdaemun and they have jobs for Samsung and as Dongdaemun night market retailers so are raking it in. They have really nice apartments but that kind of outlay for 20-24 pyeong or so, doesn't seem worth it.

What do you mean weolse was 10,000,000?  Is that the deposit and then you pay monthly rent? You said, "you have no monthly to pay"..   

So Seoul is 600 milly for 700 square feet of characterless apartment block?  Guess I'll just live in a villa style place and keep stacking money until I can escape this overpriced jungle.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6667 on: July 12, 2017, 01:08:55 PM »
We've been doing Jeonse in our current place for 3 years now (contract ending next March) and heard today that the Landlady who bought it 1 year ago wants to sell up.

We moved in paying 240 million. The Landlady after we were there for 2 years sold it on and we stayed on as tenants to the new Landlady but our Jeonse increased to 290 million. Now, she wants to sell it for 330 million. Absolutely maddening prices!

Totally gutted that we didn't buy the place rather than taking out Jeonse as 240 million seems like a steal now. Would have made almost 100 million profit.

You paid 240 million for jeonse but you had the option to buy for the same amount. I don't quite understand, but that is an insane amount. Curious if this is in Seoul, some other metropolis, or a smaller area?

my god .... you paid 240 mil for jeonse?

putting that money in index funds - which usually average 7-8% per year - would have netted you a return on investment of around 17 to 19 million Won. per year.

Am I wrong in thinking that jeonse is usually paid using a bank loan? Me and my husband have a jeonse apartment for 190 million in Busan. We paid a 40 mill deposit and the rest is a loan that we pay interest on (a few hundred k per month). We will repay the loan when we leave the apartment and get the jeonse back. In my experience it's an awesome win-win way for everyone - I get a sweet apartment for 350k "rent" every month, the landlord invests the jeonse to get interest, and the bank gets to reap interest on a relatively low-risk loan. Wish they had this system back in the states.

When we had a 40 000 000 won 'weolse' a couple of years ago to get a 34 pyeong, the bank did an 'interest only' loan for 32 000 000 won and we stumped up the 8 000 000 won.  That was only for a year, and then we got another place the same size, for the same 'interest only' for another year.  Then in the new city next to ours, a brand new apartment of the same size and 'weolse' was going for just 10 000 000 won.  We snapped that up.  But this time we paid with only our money.  I think the 'interest only' we paid was 70 000 won a month.  But now we have no monthly to pay, which feels nicer.

My wife kind of complained recently because her friends bought their houses, we don't live in Seoul, we're in Chungnam.  I mean we're talking Central Seoul and 600 000 000+ won in Ahyeon and Dongdaemun and they have jobs for Samsung and as Dongdaemun night market retailers so are raking it in. They have really nice apartments but that kind of outlay for 20-24 pyeong or so, doesn't seem worth it.

What do you mean weolse was 10,000,000?  Is that the deposit and then you pay monthly rent? You said, "you have no monthly to pay"..   

So Seoul is 600 milly for 700 square feet of characterless apartment block?  Guess I'll just live in a villa style place and keep stacking money until I can escape this overpriced jungle.

When we had the 40 000 000 won deposit apartment we paid 500 000 won every month.   Expensive, but at that time there was no other options. Now in our 10 000 000 won deposit apartment we only pay 400 000 won, because it is a new city and there are loads of apartments.  The one we live in now was selling for about 1.4 billion originally.  When the Seoul friends come to stay they love it because we are 15th floor and have a view of the mountains from the living room.  No chance of a view like that in Seoul, unless you pay serious money.

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6668 on: July 12, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
Monthly is 1,000,000 with 10,000,000 deposit, 700,000 with 40,000,000 deposit, or 500,000 with 60,000,000 deposit, etc.

Offline eggieguffer

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6669 on: July 12, 2017, 01:22:02 PM »
Quote
When we had the 40 000 000 won deposit apartment we paid 500 000 won every month.   Expensive, but at that time there was no other options. Now in our 10 000 000 won deposit apartment we only pay 400 000 won, because it is a new city and there are loads of apartments.  The one we live in now was selling for about 1.4 billion originally.  When the Seoul friends come to stay they love it because we are 15th floor and have a view of the mountains from the living room.  No chance of a view like that in Seoul, unless you pay serious money.

If you'd bought that apartment for 1.4 billion, you'd expect to get at least 5% of the price for renting it out. Ie 70 mil a year. How could you get that with a 10,000,000 deposit and 400,000 won a month. I don't get the maths.

Offline flyingspider

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6670 on: July 12, 2017, 01:22:52 PM »
I'm trying to plan camp, vacation, and my future and I can't get my brain to think about them in an orderly fashion. My mind keeps jumping from one thing to another, and now I don't want to think about anything.

Offline wanderlust8

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6671 on: July 12, 2017, 01:36:31 PM »
Either my co gave me the wrong pages to teach or she just decided to teach the stuff I had prepared. Was completely ready for class today when she starts teaching my part. I of course then had to come up with a game on the spot since the textbook games are the worst.
I also feel like I am living in an inescapable sauna and it's messing with my head. I need it to be winter.

Offline twinsaurus

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6672 on: July 12, 2017, 01:36:59 PM »
Wow.

The numbers being thrown around are crazy.

Where have I been?

The standard used to be 10,000,000 KRW for every 100,000 KRW in rent.

Meaning, if the place had 100,000,000 deposit only option, you could substitute monthly for whatever portion of the deposit you didn't have.  If you only had 10,000,000 down, you would pay 900,000 a month in rent, or 50,000,000 down and 500,000 a month, etc.

I'm more than a little shocked by what I am hearing, as it sounds like some users are saying, given my example,  one could actually put down 100,000,000 deposit only option that was simply secured via the bank and only pay 200,000-300,000 a month on a place that we pay $1,000 a month to live in.

(scratching head)  You guys can't be serious.

What you're talking about it probably wolse; the bigger the deposit, the smaller the rent, right? But in jeonse you have to pay the entire value of the apartment tot he landlord, who will invest it for the contract period and then give it back after that period is over (simply put). That's why everyone gets a loan and pays the relatively low interest on it in place of monthly rent.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6673 on: July 12, 2017, 02:08:09 PM »
Quote
When we had the 40 000 000 won deposit apartment we paid 500 000 won every month.   Expensive, but at that time there was no other options. Now in our 10 000 000 won deposit apartment we only pay 400 000 won, because it is a new city and there are loads of apartments.  The one we live in now was selling for about 1.4 billion originally.  When the Seoul friends come to stay they love it because we are 15th floor and have a view of the mountains from the living room.  No chance of a view like that in Seoul, unless you pay serious money.

If you'd bought that apartment for 1.4 billion, you'd expect to get at least 5% of the price for renting it out. Ie 70 mil a year. How could you get that with a 10,000,000 deposit and 400,000 won a month. I don't get the maths.

Neither do I.  When we got it, it was 30 000 000 won less deposit, with a 100 000 won less in monthly rent than the previous place.  It was win all over, as it was the first place we saw, we took it right away.  Beautiful view, big and brand new.  The guy who owns it is an engineer who more than likely works for the company that built the complex, as he lives in Busan, but he was in the area to sign the contract.  My MIL got him to drop his original 500 00 won a month to 400 000 won saying that there was a load of other places to choose from.  He was ok with that.  Our two-year contract finishes next June so IF we stay then I'd expect a hike in deposit or monthly.  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. 

Offline JNM

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6674 on: July 12, 2017, 02:12:37 PM »
Quote
When we had the 40 000 000 won deposit apartment we paid 500 000 won every month.   Expensive, but at that time there was no other options. Now in our 10 000 000 won deposit apartment we only pay 400 000 won, because it is a new city and there are loads of apartments.  The one we live in now was selling for about 1.4 billion originally.  When the Seoul friends come to stay they love it because we are 15th floor and have a view of the mountains from the living room.  No chance of a view like that in Seoul, unless you pay serious money.

If you'd bought that apartment for 1.4 billion, you'd expect to get at least 5% of the price for renting it out. Ie 70 mil a year. How could you get that with a 10,000,000 deposit and 400,000 won a month. I don't get the maths.

Neither do I.  When we got it, it was 30 000 000 won less deposit, with a 100 000 won less in monthly rent than the previous place.  It was win all over, as it was the first place we saw, we took it right away.  Beautiful view, big and brand new.  The guy who owns it is an engineer who more than likely works for the company that built the complex, as he lives in Busan, but he was in the area to sign the contract.  My MIL got him to drop his original 500 00 won a month to 400 000 won saying that there was a load of other places to choose from.  He was ok with that.  Our two-year contract finishes next June so IF we stay then I'd expect a hike in deposit or monthly.  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Sometimes the rent isn't as important as having a good tenant in it.

Investors are looking at the long game of capital gains.

Offline Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6675 on: July 12, 2017, 02:17:10 PM »
What a fantastically boring topic you guys have stumbled upon.

Offline iamsam

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6676 on: July 12, 2017, 03:09:59 PM »
So you are staying in an apartment that is over $1,200,0000....   but you pay 380$ in rent.....
I'm calling bullshit.  This doesn't add up whatsoever.  You couldn't rent a $50,000 apt anywhere in USA for 380$ month.  The taxes on the place would be your payment alone.

Also...   The Jeonse system is nothing more than a simple PONZI scheme that will crash, if and when, a large financial crisis occurs.  Most likely crippling the economy.  I would never give my own money even if I had it.  Better to get a loan and mitigate risk if losing it all if an implosion occurs.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:16:29 PM by iamsam »

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6677 on: July 12, 2017, 03:11:41 PM »
I'm trying to plan camp, vacation, and my future and I can't get my brain to think about them in an orderly fashion. My mind keeps jumping from one thing to another, and now I don't want to think about anything.


I feel ya. 

What a fantastically boring topic you guys have stumbled upon.


 :laugh:  I feel like it merits its own thread by now. 

Offline donovan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6678 on: July 12, 2017, 03:13:28 PM »
What a fantastically boring topic you guys have stumbled upon.



Do you mind posting some pictures of what 330,000,0000 gets you in the outskirts of Seoul.  I've been to Anyang, some parts are nice, but other are shitholes and filthy.  Just wondering if 330,000,000 gets you into the nicer areas.  Cheers.

You'd probably get a better idea of what's out there by checking 부동산 sites~

Offline eggieguffer

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #6679 on: July 12, 2017, 03:15:29 PM »
So you are staying in an apartment that is over $1,200,0000....   but you pay 380$ in rent.....
I'm calling bullshit.  This doesn't add up whatsoever.  You couldn't rent a $50,000 apt anywhere in USA for 380$ month.  The taxes on the place would be your payment alone.

I'd be curious too about what kind of flat outside Seoul costs that much to buy. It's nearly a million quid in English money so would have to be pretty amazing.

 

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