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Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 489450 times)

Offline Kayos

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #680 on: September 01, 2016, 10:54:29 AM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

Was said in English, they were getting angry, you could tell by tone of voice and facial expressions. I don't remember the exact things said, but it was pretty close to what I mentioned - hate foreigners mocking their language. It was very discouraging. Also, they have never offered to let me practice with them again and don't even encourage me to try anymore. Both stopped after that failed attempt.

It sounds to me like they mocked you so that you would give up trying to learn Korean because they want you to only speak English. It is 100% beneficial for them if you speak English only. It is not beneficial for them to have you speak Korean, and it takes a lot of effort to teach a beginner a new language. They probably don't like the effort part either. A lot of Koreans like foreigners who speak Korean because it is convenient. However, the Koreans who try hard to learn English really dislike foreigners who try to learn Korean. They see them as an obstacle, and why should they teach a foreigner Korean when they can get 100% English-only immersion from another?

If your Korean CTs are serious about learning English, it's very likely they hold insecurities about their own English pronunciation, so they mock your Korean, don't want to put forth effort to teach you Korean because they only want your English, so on so forth.

While I can understand why you think that, I don't actually interact with a lot of my co-teachers. At my travel elementary school, I share an office with 1 foreigner, and 3 - 4 Korean teachers (1 of which is my co) we talk in English a lot, and they generally try to teach me a new Korean word every couple of weeks. At my main MS and travel MS, I tend to sit at my desk quietly (it was at these schools where I was discouraged from Korean, as I wasn't at my elementary at the time), I interact with the other teachers if they interact with me though. There is only about 4 - 5 people between the 2 MS's that speak English, I sit near 1, as he is my handler at my main school, but the others sit far from me, so I don't even get a chance to interact with them in English often. Usually a hello and goodbye at most, unless they come to talk with me at lunchtime. :p
They were a bit more chatty when I first got here though, but since then, not so much.

Offline sixtieshappy

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #681 on: September 01, 2016, 11:48:50 AM »
Must we have all the windows wide open so I have to teach in a damn wind tunnel

Gasian

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #682 on: September 01, 2016, 12:09:43 PM »
My first experience at trying to speak Korean was when I was introduced to the principal at my first school. He was mad because the teacher before me had been fluent and I could only greet in Korean. Whilst trying to learn my kids were great but Korean adults were not as patient and yes, I got laughed at, corrected quite sternly when I tried.  Generally most Korean adults I came into contact with wanted to practice their English and not speak Korean. Coming to my new school, again I was told how the previous teacher spoke so much more Korean than me and her Korean was excellent etc etc, and all attempts at speaking have on far too many occasions been met with laughter or scrunched faces of disgust.  I have just mentally shut down in terms of the language. I understand far too much of it, but don't bother speaking it.

I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.

Offline The Arm

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #683 on: September 01, 2016, 01:00:49 PM »
I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.

Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean!  Hats off to multilinguists :azn:

Offline JahMoo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #684 on: September 01, 2016, 01:11:01 PM »
I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.

Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean!  Hats off to multilinguists :azn:

Because of the structure of the Korean language and the simplistic base words, a lot of times, mispronouncing Korean vocabulary means you correctly pronounce a completely different word. It can make your whole sentence incomprehensible, or comical. It's just funny when you're trying to tell your friend their new jacket looks cool, but you accidentally say it looks delicious. Once I thought I was telling my friend "must be nice", and he told me I cursed at him. In other words, you'll probably continue to be mocked if you're learning Korean.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #685 on: September 01, 2016, 01:18:29 PM »
If you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.

Offline The Arm

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #686 on: September 01, 2016, 01:37:42 PM »
Do your CTs try to speed up every single part of your lesson?

It drives me insane.

Telling the students to start an activity before I've explained what I want them to do and given them examples.

Literally telling the students "quickly, quickly" as if the end of the class (or the world) is approaching when it actually isn't.

Having students queuing up down the entire length of the classroom, ready to take their turn in a game, rendering it IMPOSSIBLE to keep track of teams, points, asking questions to check understanding.

Then the coup de gr‚ce: when we inevitable have time left over at the end of the class, you stare at me as if to say "why have we finished early?".

 :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Offline jupinkorea

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #687 on: September 01, 2016, 01:41:24 PM »
If you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.

It's actually 18
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Offline cjszk

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #688 on: September 01, 2016, 01:53:19 PM »
I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.

Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean!  Hats off to multilinguists :azn:

Because of the structure of the Korean language and the simplistic base words, a lot of times, mispronouncing Korean vocabulary means you correctly pronounce a completely different word. It can make your whole sentence incomprehensible, or comical. It's just funny when you're trying to tell your friend their new jacket looks cool, but you accidentally say it looks delicious. Once I thought I was telling my friend "must be nice", and he told me I cursed at him. In other words, you'll probably continue to be mocked if you're learning Korean.

To be honest, I can't help but chuckle too when I hear some foreigners try to speak Korean sometimes. Some very few can speak Korean with pronunciation that can sounds intelligible, but most are difficult to understand.

Most of the time it's not really something to chuckle about... it's just a bit of a confusing situation. One of my friends was once asking for a lid at a Dunkin Donuts, and he repeated himself about 5 times over even trying hard to make his pronunciation even more proper. The waitress just stared at him... then I told her that he needed a lid. Suddenly a light bulb went off in her head, as you could tell from her facial expression. It's not a matter of race either I think as many would claim it is. I'm half and look mostly white. I never have a lot of the problems others claim to have. I've seen many foreigners who complain that Koreans ignore them and such and such but when I hear them speak Korean it makes complete sense as to why. My friend who asked for the lid had a good understanding of the Korean language, but his accent and pronunciation severely masked his understanding of the language and made him sound very unintelligible to natives.

Offline JahMoo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #689 on: September 01, 2016, 02:02:29 PM »
I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.

Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean!  Hats off to multilinguists :azn:

Because of the structure of the Korean language and the simplistic base words, a lot of times, mispronouncing Korean vocabulary means you correctly pronounce a completely different word. It can make your whole sentence incomprehensible, or comical. It's just funny when you're trying to tell your friend their new jacket looks cool, but you accidentally say it looks delicious. Once I thought I was telling my friend "must be nice", and he told me I cursed at him. In other words, you'll probably continue to be mocked if you're learning Korean.

To be honest, I can't help but chuckle too when I hear some foreigners try to speak Korean sometimes. Some very few can speak Korean with pronunciation that can sounds intelligible, but most are difficult to understand.

Most of the time it's not really something to chuckle about... it's just a bit of a confusing situation. One of my friends was once asking for a lid at a Dunkin Donuts, and he repeated himself about 5 times over even trying hard to make his pronunciation even more proper. The waitress just stared at him... then I told her that he needed a lid. Suddenly a light bulb went off in her head, as you could tell from her facial expression. It's not a matter of race either I think as many would claim it is. I'm half and look mostly white. I never have a lot of the problems others claim to have. I've seen many foreigners who complain that Koreans ignore them and such and such but when I hear them speak Korean it makes complete sense as to why. My friend who asked for the lid had a good understanding of the Korean language, but his accent and pronunciation severely masked his understanding of the language and made him sound very unintelligible to natives.
Exactly that! A lot of foreigners that I know, particularly from the US and UK, think grammar and vocabulary are the most important part of learning a language, but for Korean, I feel like pronunciation is the most important part. It's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.

Offline kyndo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #690 on: September 01, 2016, 02:11:30 PM »
It's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.
I get what you're getting at, but this isn't exactly 100% true.
Find a monolingual redneck who has never had to deal with anybody with an accent, then stick your coworker in front of them and see exactly how much English can be understood. My guess would be "not so much".

We're all exposed to a great variety of English, and are all to some extent good at parsing broken grammar. Many people aren't, and some of the English that we nod our heads at would confuse the crap out of them.

I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 02:13:39 PM by kyndo »

Gasian

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #691 on: September 01, 2016, 02:19:26 PM »
Fair enough point regarding pronunciation, however then perhaps instead of laughing, maybe helping someone with the correct pronunciation would be a better way to address the situation. I cannot for the life of me understand how laughing at someone, or just telling them they are wrong without actually helping is constructive at all. My kids will do that with me. Go over the pronunciation of a word over and over again, until I get it right. Adults seem to just laugh and say "that's wrong", and you are left looking like a right idiot without any form of constructive feedback for improvement. It's almost a sense of "oh well you aren't going to get it perfect, so why bother at all" attitude which really gets to me.

Coming from a country with many accents, many languages, I find that it is exposure to accents and the ability to listen carefully and contextualize things that makes communication easier. From my personal experience, I feel that it is this listening and contextualizing that seems to run short when speaking to some Koreans.

Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #692 on: September 01, 2016, 02:43:04 PM »
If you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.

It's actually 18

28?

Like he gives 2 f*cks

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Ignoring isnít the same as ignorance, you have to work at it.

Offline cjszk

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #693 on: September 01, 2016, 02:46:01 PM »
It's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.
I get what you're getting at, but this isn't exactly 100% true.
Find a monolingual redneck who has never had to deal with anybody with an accent, then stick your coworker in front of them and see exactly how much English can be understood. My guess would be "not so much".

We're all exposed to a great variety of English, and are all to some extent good at parsing broken grammar. Many people aren't, and some of the English that we nod our heads at would confuse the crap out of them.

I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.

When I was in high school I played WoW and had a 3vs3 arena team (basically a 3 man team in a game) and the other two players I had on my team were a southern cowboy-accented red neck and a person from Singapore. The redneck would constantly complain that he couldn't understand anything the Singaporean was saying, I always have to repeat for the Singaporean...

With that said, English is definitely not simply a language by nature that anyone can be understood regardless of accent. It is actually more the case that we English speakers tend to be more exposed to many various accents due to the world bending over to the English language.

Now to put that into perspective with Korean... it is only recently that many Koreans have heard foreigners speaking crystal clear Korean.

Offline krissyboo75

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #694 on: September 01, 2016, 02:46:38 PM »
If you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.

It's actually 18

28?

Like he gives 2 f*cks

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Apparently 28 is worse, but I can't remember why.

Offline donovan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #695 on: September 01, 2016, 02:46:56 PM »
It can also be heard in 38, 78, 118, 1,818... :laugh:

Offline JahMoo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #696 on: September 01, 2016, 02:52:52 PM »
It's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.
I get what you're getting at, but this isn't exactly 100% true.
Find a monolingual redneck who has never had to deal with anybody with an accent, then stick your coworker in front of them and see exactly how much English can be understood. My guess would be "not so much".

We're all exposed to a great variety of English, and are all to some extent good at parsing broken grammar. Many people aren't, and some of the English that we nod our heads at would confuse the crap out of them.

I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.

But my point is that when you mispronounce English, you aren't accidentally saying completely different English words most of the time. And that adds an extra obstacle to things. Plus English-speakers trying to learn Korean is a relatively new thing here, so almost every Korean you come into contact with is going to be that "monolingual redneck". (I'm not trying to call all Koreans rednecks, this is just for comparison).

Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #697 on: September 01, 2016, 03:03:34 PM »
It's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.
I get what you're getting at, but this isn't exactly 100% true.
Find a monolingual redneck who has never had to deal with anybody with an accent, then stick your coworker in front of them and see exactly how much English can be understood. My guess would be "not so much".

We're all exposed to a great variety of English, and are all to some extent good at parsing broken grammar. Many people aren't, and some of the English that we nod our heads at would confuse the crap out of them.

I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.

But my point is that when you mispronounce English, you aren't accidentally saying completely different English words most of the time. And that adds an extra obstacle to things. Plus English-speakers trying to learn Korean is a relatively new thing here, so almost every Korean you come into contact with is going to be that "monolingual redneck". (I'm not trying to call all Koreans rednecks, this is just for comparison).
It's true, responsibility/respunsibility/respensibility/respinsibility are all the same, virtually. You fu*k up an 아 where an 어 should have been? Total nightmare. 
Ignoring isnít the same as ignorance, you have to work at it.

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #698 on: September 01, 2016, 03:08:40 PM »
To be fair though, some peoples' Korean pronunciation is so cringe-worthy that I can completely understand why Korean's don't like hearing it.

Someone butchering a few Korean words and and getting frustrated when someone doesn't get it is the equivalent of when old people just bust out the "hello-hello-wa-you-from? a-mae-li-ca?" because those are the few English words they bothered to learn and they think they're understandable.

Koreans do tend to have a bit of a harder time understanding poor Korean than we do understanding poor English, BUT - yeah, some people, there's a reason nobody understands what you're saying. Because you're literally saying it wrong.

Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #699 on: September 01, 2016, 03:15:39 PM »
To be fair though, some peoples' Korean pronunciation is so cringe-worthy that I can completely understand why Korean's don't like hearing it.

Someone butchering a few Korean words and and getting frustrated when someone doesn't get it is the equivalent of when old people just bust out the "hello-hello-wa-you-from? a-mae-li-ca?" because those are the few English words they bothered to learn and they think they're understandable.

Koreans do tend to have a bit of a harder time understanding poor Korean than we do understanding poor English, BUT - yeah, some people, there's a reason nobody understands what you're saying. Because you're literally saying it wrong.

You literally use literally in literally all of your posts. 
Ignoring isnít the same as ignorance, you have to work at it.

 

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