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Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 492539 times)

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #660 on: August 31, 2016, 04:17:13 PM »
I think he's being asked to run training sessions on how to teach English, rather than just teaching the teachers.

Like I said this morning I'd steer well clear of that  :huh:

EDIT:  Yea, what CO2 said above ^

I know what you're saying but it's not an adult conversation class, it's a class that she will teach on "How  to teach English." I've been here 3 years and I still wouldn't want to teach that. She's been here 3 months.

Yep, see what you're both saying.  That could be hard if it is strictly that.  When I was given the teachers' classes, it was simply 'teaching the teachers' classes.  This could be similar, depends on the scope.  At the beginning of the year, I taught the teachers different ways to teach reading to students, using prediction, visualising, inferring and summarising.  Not ways they'd heard of before, could be a start.

Offline krissyboo75

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #661 on: August 31, 2016, 05:22:42 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #662 on: August 31, 2016, 05:34:46 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

I've done the speaking Korean with co-workers thing and it's hit or miss. Some of them are really cool about it and others are complete dicks.

There is a degree of mocking that is seen as acceptable here that I haven't found elsewhere when a non-native speaks the language.

Offline Kayos

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #663 on: August 31, 2016, 05:39:32 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(

Offline Pennypie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #664 on: August 31, 2016, 05:44:17 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

Offline cjszk

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #665 on: August 31, 2016, 05:45:10 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

This behavior is actually common among some co-teachers who teach with foreigners who try to learn Korean as a brand new second language. I can't exactly put my finger down on the reason 100% accurately, but I suspect it has to do with the co-teacher's own insecurities as well as the foreign teacher's intellect suddenly seeming to drop down an entire 40 IQ points as they struggle with a new language. I doubt that the CTs who mock the poster's Korean pronunciation would say the same to a stranger on the street, but they would probably still feel offended if a very foreign looking person who looks like they should speak English tries to speak Korean to them.

Most CTs who mock foreigner's pronunciation of Korean also have an insecurity about their own English pronunciation and an obsession with perfectionism.

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #666 on: August 31, 2016, 05:52:14 PM »
Re: current conversation on learning Korean

Anyone else get the Korean StareTM? You know, when you say something in what you know is perfectly comprehensible Korean and they look at you like you just sprouted a second head and don't even respond to what you said? I feel like that's definitely been the biggest deterrent to me learning Korean in Korea. I still study vocab every day and I got a dang minor in Korean back in university,  but both while studying abroad in Korea and now that I'm working here I felt that Koreans really don't want to speak to Korean language learners.

Probably even worse is when you're struggling to express yourself and they don't offer any words to help. Personally, even before getting licensed to teach and coming over here, if I was talking to a non-native speaker and what they were saying was confusing, I'd ask clarifying questions or suggest words or rephrase what they were saying to make sure I understood. I never get that here. Just the blank stare. Talk about demoralizing!


Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #667 on: August 31, 2016, 05:55:08 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

It depends, if you're constantly being stopped over minor grammatical stuff, that's shitty. As long as my message is getting through, then listen and we can talk about some of the mistakes I made later.

I asked my GF how to say "your" and she said 너의. Boom, put that in the memory for her brother's wedding tomorrow.

We arrived, and my GF's mom was wearing a hanbok so I started to say "너의 한복 정말 예쁜에요" Gotta put the yo on there, it's my GF's mom!

As soon as I said hanbok my GF yells at me "엄마의!"  >:(

Jesus Christ, I'm trying to tell someone that what they're wearing is nice. Can I at least finish the goddamn sentence before I get the whole nine yards? And everyone knows my Korean was shit back then, I would never refer to someone in the third person. When I'm talking to you, it's you. Cut me some damn slack.

I didn't say a single word in Korean the rest of the wedding. "Why were you so quiet for the reception?"

Oh, I don't know, getting snapped at on the second word out of my mouth didn't help.   :rolleyes:

If you honestly don't understand the point someone is trying to make, ASK for clarification. If they're screwing up now and then, keep them talking, they'll learn a lot more by practicing, not from a "real-time correction service."
Ignoring isnít the same as ignorance, you have to work at it.

Offline Kayos

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #668 on: August 31, 2016, 06:01:00 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

Was said in English, they were getting angry, you could tell by tone of voice and facial expressions. I don't remember the exact things said, but it was pretty close to what I mentioned - hate foreigners mocking their language. It was very discouraging. Also, they have never offered to let me practice with them again and don't even encourage me to try anymore. Both stopped after that failed attempt.

Offline Kayos

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #669 on: August 31, 2016, 06:05:57 PM »
Re: current conversation on learning Korean

Anyone else get the Korean StareTM? You know, when you say something in what you know is perfectly comprehensible Korean and they look at you like you just sprouted a second head and don't even respond to what you said? I feel like that's definitely been the biggest deterrent to me learning Korean in Korea. I still study vocab every day and I got a dang minor in Korean back in university,  but both while studying abroad in Korea and now that I'm working here I felt that Koreans really don't want to speak to Korean language learners.

Probably even worse is when you're struggling to express yourself and they don't offer any words to help. Personally, even before getting licensed to teach and coming over here, if I was talking to a non-native speaker and what they were saying was confusing, I'd ask clarifying questions or suggest words or rephrase what they were saying to make sure I understood. I never get that here. Just the blank stare. Talk about demoralizing!

The bolded part I do all the time with my Non-english native friends. I will only correct it if they really need a high level english for work or school. For outside of school I go by, if I understood it, it's fine.

Offline cjszk

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #670 on: August 31, 2016, 06:10:34 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

Was said in English, they were getting angry, you could tell by tone of voice and facial expressions. I don't remember the exact things said, but it was pretty close to what I mentioned - hate foreigners mocking their language. It was very discouraging. Also, they have never offered to let me practice with them again and don't even encourage me to try anymore. Both stopped after that failed attempt.

It sounds to me like they mocked you so that you would give up trying to learn Korean because they want you to only speak English. It is 100% beneficial for them if you speak English only. It is not beneficial for them to have you speak Korean, and it takes a lot of effort to teach a beginner a new language. They probably don't like the effort part either. A lot of Koreans like foreigners who speak Korean because it is convenient. However, the Koreans who try hard to learn English really dislike foreigners who try to learn Korean. They see them as an obstacle, and why should they teach a foreigner Korean when they can get 100% English-only immersion from another?

If your Korean CTs are serious about learning English, it's very likely they hold insecurities about their own English pronunciation, so they mock your Korean, don't want to put forth effort to teach you Korean because they only want your English, so on so forth.

Offline z80

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #671 on: August 31, 2016, 06:16:19 PM »
Could it be that Koreans inability to learn English and their inability to teach Korean are the same thing?

Anyway, I have worked out there is no need to learn Korean simply because it's a language that offers no opportunity.

If a non English speaking person learns English, it's a great advantage for them. There are other advantages for an English speaking people to learn other languages too, for example you can learn Spanish, and that allows you to do all sorts of things and opens new relationships with people of many different cultures. What does learning Korean as a foreigner enable you to do? Teach at a hagwon once the government scraps EPIK for $2000 a month living in a mold infested 1 room?


Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #672 on: August 31, 2016, 06:19:33 PM »
We just got my schedule ironed out yesterday, so today I was putting together my schedule for the whole semester, seeing if there was time for supplemental culture classes or not. I found out that the frickin midterm is THE LAST WEEK OF SEPTEMBER which means that I can't even finish two chapters with the students because of Chuseok. I talked about it with my boss and she told me just to finish the listening section of chapter 7 by the midterm. Ok. Can do.

Except I already know there's going to be conflict over this. She never likes how I do things and I'd finally gotten down a half-decent system, and this is going to require that I deviate from it. Initially we were going to try to cram both chapters into the three class hours I have before midterms by skipping something, and I was talking with my coteacher saying that I was afraid the boss teacher was going to get mad at me because doing three pages in one class means that there won't be much time for non-textbook activities... aka the kids will be bored. She told me to just make a powerpoint with pictures that match their interests. Except that's what I've been trying to do anyways, and I just taught with her today and I thought that I had done a good job with the whole engaging pictures bit. Especially given that 90% of the class has me with the digital textbook on the screen (as per my coteachers' instructions) I don't know how I could add anything more to the class. It seems like my materials are never good enough but no one ever gives me suggestions for how to improve them, just "do that thing you're already trying to do except you're not doing it well enough."

After one time that my boss was particularly nasty to me after I had done my best to follow her extremely vague instructions which she refused to/couldn't clarify, I decided to just not try to interpret what she was saying anymore and not worry about whether it was possible and just do whatever she said. I thought I had finally figured out a system and it would be smooth sailing this semester in comparison to the first one which was hellish, but now I'm afraid I'm going to get more of the same harsh criticism followed by non-instructions on how to improve.

I was feeling so hopeful about this semester and that I'd finally settled in.  :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sounds a lot like what I get at my travel MS. Except, I'm not even allowed to know what textbook they use. I have to make all my own lessons. No matter what I do, I only get harsh criticism (during the middle of a class and in front of the other students), and get told to improve. I managed to get a lid put on that for a while, as I got told "the previous teacher done it better" I asked to see some of the previous teachers work so I could get some direction. "We don't have any." to that I just said, well, I can't improve unless you tell me where I need to improve - they aren't willing to give me direction, so I have to figure everything out on my own. I don't really hear anything about my lessons now, unless they think they are the worst thing ever; which luckily for me, hasn't happened yet.

I typed a response to this but it seems to have not posted??

So far in my anticipation of possible conflict I've decided to adopt the approach of "be annoyingly proactive." I've asked the head english teacher after every one of our classes together if she thought it went well, what she thought of the powerpoint, if the activities were good, etc. She told me to change the powerpoint so each practice sentence was on a different slide, I did, she seemed pleased. The classes I have with her are by far the worst-behaved and least-engaged of my 21 classes - I'm pretty sure it's because she perpetuates a pretty terrible classroom environment - and I feel like sometimes she blames it on me. I know it's her though because my other 17 classes are generally really manageable, even the low-level ones lol.

I actually was given some powerpoints made by an earlier teacher at the beginning of the school year, but because they weren't made to be distributed, they had no notes and I couldn't really figure out how they fit into the lesson. They didn't understand that what they had given me was pretty much useless in terms of understanding what they wanted me to do lol. But I think I've found my way now.

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #673 on: August 31, 2016, 06:21:59 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

I see mocking as a verb. They do it. Their intent is kind of meaningless at that point.
I've had people mock me and haven't cared. I've also bitten peoples heads off for it. Mostly it depends on how much I like them.

The one that stands out most was actually not speaking but writing. I was told to write stuff in Korean. I did. Then (some of) my CTs sat around a computer and laughed at it under the assumption I was unaware what they were talking about. Then they told me to take it home and have me wife re-write it. I refused. We never got along after that.

Another example, I've had multiple people call my speaking 'cute.' Some people it was cool and funny. Others I hated for it. Like I said above, it depends on how much I like them.

Also, this hasn't happened for a long time now. Both events I mentioned above happened in my first year. I'm now in my third with a TOPIK 5 under my belt and speak Korean all of the time when I'm not teaching without issue. (Tbf, I also like all of my CTs for the first time ever. So the small stuff slides off easier.)

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #674 on: August 31, 2016, 06:24:11 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

It depends, if you're constantly being stopped over minor grammatical stuff, that's shitty. As long as my message is getting through, then listen and we can talk about some of the mistakes I made later.

I asked my GF how to say "your" and she said 너의. Boom, put that in the memory for her brother's wedding tomorrow.

We arrived, and my GF's mom was wearing a hanbok so I started to say "너의 한복 정말 예쁜에요" Gotta put the yo on there, it's my GF's mom!

As soon as I said hanbok my GF yells at me "엄마의!"  >:(

Jesus Christ, I'm trying to tell someone that what they're wearing is nice. Can I at least finish the goddamn sentence before I get the whole nine yards? And everyone knows my Korean was shit back then, I would never refer to someone in the third person. When I'm talking to you, it's you. Cut me some damn slack.

I didn't say a single word in Korean the rest of the wedding. "Why were you so quiet for the reception?"

Oh, I don't know, getting snapped at on the second word out of my mouth didn't help.   :rolleyes:

If you honestly don't understand the point someone is trying to make, ASK for clarification. If they're screwing up now and then, keep them talking, they'll learn a lot more by practicing, not from a "real-time correction service."

Ah the family screw ups. Looking back you can probably see how bad it is but I've done the same thing and the backlash always seems so harsh to what was done wrong.

I'll just say that i get you on this one.

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #675 on: August 31, 2016, 06:25:54 PM »
I've been here for 5 years now and I am not fluent in Korean as much as I feel I should be. I studied for a while during my 2nd and 3rd year. I got kinda sick of studying and decided I wasn't going to be here much longer but I was wrong. I did learn a lot on my own watching dramas and speaking to people, and a little big of vocab study here and there but I've recently decided to get back into study and am going to take the beginners TOPIK exam in November. The grammar sucks so much and I'm so frustrated but trying really hard. I don't want to take a class so using Talk To Me in Korean books to study on my own.  힘들어요~

I came here with wanting to learn Korean in mind as well. A lot of my co-teachers who speak a bit of English were encouraging me to learn Korean, and even said I could practice with them, and this is as far as I got (other than learning the random word here and there).

I opened my book, the first bit was learning: My name is is (I think it was Je *name* imnida. and What is your name? (can't remember that at all) - I go to a few of my co-teachers to let them know I have started learning and just wanted to practice that little bit with them - they were fine with it as they weren't busy. The my name bit was good. What is your name though... I struggled greatly with the pronunciation, and all I got was "You are saying it wrong! Damn I hate foreigners mocking my language!" (not exact words, but it's close enough) after getting that from a few of the teachers, I said screw learning Korean. I can say hello and thank you, that is good enough for me until I leave. (While I have only been here 4 months, I'm still deciding if I'll renew; If I do, my 2nd year will be my last, then I will move on to China or Japan - probably Japan though.

I've heard of lots of other foreigners getting the same kind of treatment to learning Korean in Korea as well. As someone who loves learning languages, Korean is the first that I have ever given up on so quickly. (Korean would have been my 6th language if I wasn't discouraged). Of the 5 I have learnt, English and Japanese are the only ones I can really use, if only a little (Japanese), the other 3 I haven't done anything with for 15 years, so have forgotten all of it :P
I've never been mocked for speaking Korean. I've actually been told my pronunciation is pretty good. Sorry you had that experience. I would never ask my co workers to help though, personally. I joined a language exchange group and that is a little bit more comfortable for me. Maybe you should find one in your area?

It wasn't that I was getting mocked, they just seemed to be personally taking offense to me not getting it on the first try. I get told I have perfect pronunciation on the few things I know (mostly words that sounds very similar to Japanese words, so it makes them easy for me), but when they don't have that similarity, I am struggling a lot.

As for the language exchange, I got told on my first day about a group that does it, but no one seems to have any information on when and where they meet. :/ Or if it is still going.
I have a couple Korean friends I probably could practice, but they are not anywhere near me and often busy. :( which is why I jumped at my co-teachers offers to practice initially. I figured, they are teachers, they understand the difficulties of learning other languages, it should be ok.
I know of one a town over from me, but they meet on a day / time that I can't make it. :(


Out of interest, how did you know they were mocking you? I don't mean that in a I don't believe you way but did they say it English or Korean?


I've had this happen countless times, people laughing in my face or bluntly correcting me on the smallest thing, at first I took it very personally and it would piss me off but now I've studied more and been here longer I sort of get that it's rarely meant in a bad way.

Was said in English, they were getting angry, you could tell by tone of voice and facial expressions. I don't remember the exact things said, but it was pretty close to what I mentioned - hate foreigners mocking their language. It was very discouraging. Also, they have never offered to let me practice with them again and don't even encourage me to try anymore. Both stopped after that failed attempt.

It sounds to me like they mocked you so that you would give up trying to learn Korean because they want you to only speak English. It is 100% beneficial for them if you speak English only. It is not beneficial for them to have you speak Korean, and it takes a lot of effort to teach a beginner a new language. They probably don't like the effort part either. A lot of Koreans like foreigners who speak Korean because it is convenient. However, the Koreans who try hard to learn English really dislike foreigners who try to learn Korean. They see them as an obstacle, and why should they teach a foreigner Korean when they can get 100% English-only immersion from another?

If your Korean CTs are serious about learning English, it's very likely they hold insecurities about their own English pronunciation, so they mock your Korean, don't want to put forth effort to teach you Korean because they only want your English, so on so forth.

This is also possible. I had one CT that would never speak with me in Korean under any circumstance. She viewed English conversation for her (and my other CTs) as part of my job.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #676 on: August 31, 2016, 06:33:01 PM »
my lazy coT is the only one who's ever given me guff about attempting to speak Korean (which, given her antics that have compelled me to overuse the ranting threads, wasn't at all surprising). Thus, I rarely ever speak Korean around her. One time she was using one of my class periods to catch up on the book and randomly asked me to pronounce random English words and then Korean syllables. Not sure if she was trying to show the class my pronunciation of Korean is off or whatever but none of my students laughed (cause they like me.. dare I say more? hahahah) and they seemed just as confused as I was.

She also thinks my purpose is to just speak English all the time to expose others to it. However, I get the feeling all the others in my elem. schools don't care and would feel more comfortable if I tried to speak Korean to them. I vaguely suspect she likes to feel important being the translator so she might feel less sparkly if I picked up more Korean.

Everyone in my main office is very encouraging even when I speak very, very basic Korean. Until I took a free online course (Yonsei!!) and did some self study with Sogang's free online lessons, I didn't realize I was leaving out articles from my simple sentences. Nobody ever told me otherwise, I guess they figured "we can understand you! so it's all good" which is kinda my take on English unless the person specifically asks me to correct their English because they want to improve.

One time my principal burst out laughing at something I said (because apparently it was a child's word I learned growing up but never knew the grown-up word for ;-_-) but I knew it wasn't out of ill intent. He was genuinely taken by surprise and since a lot of Koreans think I look like a middle schooler, probably thought along the lines of "oh how cute!" One time I said hello in Korean to my travel middle school principal and he just went "Aigoo!" like I was a child.

Not everyone's a douchehammer here though they certainly exist.

Offline The Arm

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #677 on: August 31, 2016, 06:53:29 PM »
The two biggest things that put me off continuing to study Korean:

- Anything less than absolute accuracy with grammar, pronunciation and politeness (see CO2's story), then you might as well be speaking Swahili to a Korean person.

- Koreans never, ever slow down when speaking Korean to a foreigner.  It's like an alien concept to them. 

I can't remember who it was but someone on this site made a great point about speaking English to a Korean person; you have to constantly "ride the brake".  I can't understand why Koreans don't do it for us.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #678 on: August 31, 2016, 06:59:59 PM »
Because I blend in, I generally have the problem of Koreans assuming I speak Korean. I've lost count of how many old people like trying to talk to me-- and even after I tell them I don't speak much Korean, they kinda just give me a [blank?] stare and then continue talking at me in Korean. Some old folks just like talkin' I guess

Offline Somebody

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #679 on: September 01, 2016, 02:56:10 AM »
The two biggest things that put me off continuing to study Korean:

- Anything less than absolute accuracy with grammar, pronunciation and politeness (see CO2's story), then you might as well be speaking Swahili to a Korean person.

- Koreans never, ever slow down when speaking Korean to a foreigner.  It's like an alien concept to them. 

I can't remember who it was but someone on this site made a great point about speaking English to a Korean person; you have to constantly "ride the brake".  I can't understand why Koreans don't do it for us.

Students will put on the brake. You can learn a lot from them. Adults don't care. For them, it would be the equivalant of trying to speak English with a foreigner in a check out lane for us.

 

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