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Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 492554 times)

Offline Lurch

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2600 on: November 15, 2016, 11:39:47 AM »
The tests for English in grade 6 here are 6 multiple choice (in conjunction with listening) and then 4 questions that are write 2) words and 2) sentences.

It's insane. And 80% of the writing on the test is in Korean.

And then in middle school they're 25 multiple choice questions with ridiculously ambiguous answers. My co-workers told me to never discuss test questions with my students after the exam. If my students had any questions about them, I was to send them straight to their Korean teacher who made the questions because my answers were inflammatory...

Offline kriztee

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2601 on: November 15, 2016, 12:13:14 PM »
My CT wanted me to read 5th grade a story she picked out today. It had so much slang and words they had never heard and she didn't even understand half of the book but she wanted me to explain the words to her so she could translate the book to english...

On the plus side I got to explain the use of the "-ish" ending and now the kids are pros at abusing "-ish" in their sentences.

"Did you have fun?"
"I had a good-ish time teacher."

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2602 on: November 15, 2016, 12:30:38 PM »
The tests for English in grade 6 here are 6 multiple choice (in conjunction with listening) and then 4 questions that are write 2) words and 2) sentences.

It's insane. And 80% of the writing on the test is in Korean.

And then in middle school they're 25 multiple choice questions with ridiculously ambiguous answers. My co-workers told me to never discuss test questions with my students after the exam. If my students had any questions about them, I was to send them straight to their Korean teacher who made the questions because my answers were inflammatory...
In all fairness to your co-teacher, this is were some foreigners really drop the ball.

If you were not involved with making the test, don't insert yourself later.

If you were involved, hopefully there won't be any errors.

That said, when a student asks you, simply redirect them to ask the teacher that made the test.

Opening you mouth to cause conflict is a bad idea, regardless if you are right or not.


Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2603 on: November 15, 2016, 01:38:56 PM »
The tests for English in grade 6 here are 6 multiple choice (in conjunction with listening) and then 4 questions that are write 2) words and 2) sentences.

It's insane. And 80% of the writing on the test is in Korean.

And then in middle school they're 25 multiple choice questions with ridiculously ambiguous answers. My co-workers told me to never discuss test questions with my students after the exam. If my students had any questions about them, I was to send them straight to their Korean teacher who made the questions because my answers were inflammatory...
In all fairness to your co-teacher, this is were some foreigners really drop the ball.

If you were not involved with making the test, don't insert yourself later.

If you were involved, hopefully there won't be any errors.

That said, when a student asks you, simply redirect them to ask the teacher that made the test.

Opening you mouth to cause conflict is a bad idea, regardless if you are right or not.


Yeah. Some people are absolutely ridiculous. They had no part in making the test, and then they want to get involved when students start arguing whether their answers are right or not. In that case, you should always say, "Yes, of course the teacher's marking is correct," and then send them to the Korean teacher so you don't get involved. And then in private, not around students, you can inform your co-teacher that there was an error and that this is why students are complaining.

If you want to be involved in making the tests, and proofing them before they're given, that's fine - I've done it, and it's a lot of work - but don't cause unnecessary grief by making your coworker lose face and also giving students and parents ammunition for disputing test results.

Offline Lurch

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2604 on: November 15, 2016, 03:03:20 PM »
The tests for English in grade 6 here are 6 multiple choice (in conjunction with listening) and then 4 questions that are write 2) words and 2) sentences.

It's insane. And 80% of the writing on the test is in Korean.

And then in middle school they're 25 multiple choice questions with ridiculously ambiguous answers. My co-workers told me to never discuss test questions with my students after the exam. If my students had any questions about them, I was to send them straight to their Korean teacher who made the questions because my answers were inflammatory...
In all fairness to your co-teacher, this is were some foreigners really drop the ball.

If you were not involved with making the test, don't insert yourself later.

If you were involved, hopefully there won't be any errors.

That said, when a student asks you, simply redirect them to ask the teacher that made the test.

Opening you mouth to cause conflict is a bad idea, regardless if you are right or not.

The one time it caused a problem, my student innocuously approached me and asked me if their interpretation of such-and-such a question was accurate. - This kid had just spent years in the US and was conversationally fluent. Far more so than their Korean English teacher. - I looked at the question and agreed that hers was a perfectly valid interpretation. I didn't even know it was a test question at the time.

Of course, her Korean English teacher wasn't aware of the alternative interpretation because he wasn't exactly fluent. The irony here being that they stick to multiple choice questions to avoid ambiguity.

The problem then was that some other, less fluent students chose that answer as well, but didn't have the same interpretation as her and were just plain wrong. She couldn't be given credit for that choice, otherwise they'd have to give everyone credit for that choice. In a system where a single point can make or break your chances at getting into a good high school (she was third year, middle school) she was understandably upset.

We never had these problems when they actually consulted me about the test questions.

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2605 on: November 15, 2016, 03:09:27 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

Offline strugglebunny

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2606 on: November 15, 2016, 03:19:12 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He did nothing wrong. The student was better than the teacher.

He just did it wrong "for Korea."

Offline The Arm

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2607 on: November 15, 2016, 03:19:29 PM »
I think we're well within our rights to give our opinion, when asked, on a language point.  I think it's natural that a student would seek the opinion of a native speaker if they have a question about their exam, regardless of who wrote the questions.

If we refuse to give our opinions in these situations then we literally might as well not be here.

Offline Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2608 on: November 15, 2016, 03:39:44 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He said he didn't know it was a test question, so your earlier complaint didn't apply to that situation. He wasn't trying to meddle or second guessing the KETs, he was just answering a question a student had.  He wasn't "inserting himself," and he couldn't have "redirected them to ask the teacher who made the test," because he didn't even know it was from a test.

So hindsight being 20/20, do you see now how what you said doesn't apply to him there?

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2609 on: November 15, 2016, 03:49:39 PM »
I think we're well within our rights to give our opinion, when asked, on a language point.  I think it's natural that a student would seek the opinion of a native speaker if they have a question about their exam, regardless of who wrote the questions.

If we refuse to give our opinions in these situations then we literally might as well not be here.
I have addressed this point at workshops before, and there are always those who don't "GET IT" at first.  Typically, they were those that had never taught before or had never traveled outside their country.

First, one needs to understand the work culture here and adopt it.

To be fair, you wouldn't pull this type of foolishness and insert yourself in another teacher's test in the US, either, so I wonder where Lurch is from.

That said, in Korea, depending on grade-level, a team of teachers create these tests.  If there is an error, it is a major MAJOR issue/headache that could cause problems for one or all of those teachers on the team, especially if parents get involved.

If/when you are trusted, usually the teachers will come to you to edit the exam prior to seeking the principal's approval stamp and having it printed.

Why that didn't happen in this case, only OP knows.

Arm, sorry, but you are way off base in your view on this subject. Giving your opinion after the fact will only make things worse.

You need to have your colleague's back.

I have been asked for my opinion on test questions many a times.

S: "Pecan what is the answer?"
T: "Who gave you the test?"
S: "Ms. X"
T: "Did you ask her?"
S: "Yes."
T: "What did she say?"
S: blah, blah, blah
T: "What do you think the answer is?"
S: blah, blah, blah
T: "I see."
S: "What do you think Pecan?"
T: "I think you should talk to Ms. X, as there is nothing I can do to help you.  Sorry."


Offline Aristocrat

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2610 on: November 15, 2016, 04:00:26 PM »
What a day...

I teach at 4 schools (all of which want to do camp) and in May, I told my CT at one of my rural schools to let me know about Winter camp plans ASAP, as I work on a first come first serve basis.
I regularly reminded her and by July, 3 of my schools had locked in their dates, I'd signed my vacation days off and booked my plane tickets.

Today, 15th of November, she announces that she wants to do camp for Winter. Quite bluntly, I told her there was no way that was happening. She's convinced that it's unfair that I only teach camp at my 3 other schools. Apparently, explaining what first come first serve means didn't work.

To add to this, she comes to school with nothing short of bubonic plague, coughing and sneezing her lungs out, which is compounded by her habit of standing way too close to me. Delicately, I try to explain that she's aggravating her condition and she's potentially infecting me and all the students she comes into contact with. She goes on to leave used tissues all over my desk to, as if to stress the point that she couldn't care less.

The ace up her sleeve is to tell me, after lunch, that all the teachers will be going on a hike at 3pm. As usual, no prior notice is given, and I'm expected to walk up a mountain in my dress pants and oxfords.


Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2611 on: November 15, 2016, 04:06:35 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He said he didn't know it was a test question, so your earlier complaint didn't apply to that situation. He wasn't trying to meddle or second guessing the KETs, he was just answering a question a student had.  He wasn't "inserting himself," and he couldn't have "redirected them to ask the teacher who made the test," because he didn't even know it was from a test.

So hindsight being 20/20, do you see now how what you said doesn't apply to him there?
Well, you are either simply being ignorant or taking the piss, because only a mouth-breather would think that a student would ever ask you an English exam question for "shits-n-giggles", especially someone who is a known "ringer".

That is why, as others have said countless times, when asked a question, you ask "Why?" before sticking your foot in your mouth.

Offline Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2612 on: November 15, 2016, 04:18:43 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He said he didn't know it was a test question, so your earlier complaint didn't apply to that situation. He wasn't trying to meddle or second guessing the KETs, he was just answering a question a student had.  He wasn't "inserting himself," and he couldn't have "redirected them to ask the teacher who made the test," because he didn't even know it was from a test.

So hindsight being 20/20, do you see now how what you said doesn't apply to him there?
Well, you are either simply being ignorant or taking the piss, becauseonly a mouth-breather would think that a student would ever ask you an English exam question for "shits-n-giggles", especially someone who is a known "ringer".

That is why, as others have said countless times, when asked a question, you ask "Why?" before sticking your foot in your mouth.

Except he didn't say it was an exam question. He said "such-and-such question," and then said he didn't know it was an exam question. In answering such a question, he wasn't trying to insert himself into something, which is what you initially accused him of. He was just helping a student.

Perhaps you can (and are, apparently) fault him for not asking every student why they want to know every single time they ask something. I won't argue that point, if that's the way you choose to teach.

Perhaps I am, as you say, just ignorant. I enjoy helping my students when they ask me to, so unless something is obviously an issue with exam content, I don't usually give my kids the third degree before explaining things. I didn't know that could be problematic, but I suppose there'd be no harm in being more cautious in the future.

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2613 on: November 15, 2016, 04:26:49 PM »
This is what was said:

"My co-workers told me to never discuss test questions with my students after the exam. If my students had any questions about them, I was to send them straight to their Korean teacher who made the questions because my answers were inflammatory..."

Is it still hard for you to figure out what happened above, Mr. Tim?

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2614 on: November 15, 2016, 04:33:30 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He said he didn't know it was a test question, so your earlier complaint didn't apply to that situation. He wasn't trying to meddle or second guessing the KETs, he was just answering a question a student had.  He wasn't "inserting himself," and he couldn't have "redirected them to ask the teacher who made the test," because he didn't even know it was from a test.

So hindsight being 20/20, do you see now how what you said doesn't apply to him there?
Well, you are either simply being ignorant or taking the piss, because only a mouth-breather would think that a student would ever ask you an English exam question for "shits-n-giggles", especially someone who is a known "ringer".

That is why, as others have said countless times, when asked a question, you ask "Why?" before sticking your foot in your mouth.

I had this happen once. Kid asked me like a week after getting their test back about something during class as I was walking around monitoring an activity. If I asked every kid who asked me a question why they were asking that question I wouldn't have time to teach...

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2615 on: November 15, 2016, 04:35:49 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He said he didn't know it was a test question, so your earlier complaint didn't apply to that situation. He wasn't trying to meddle or second guessing the KETs, he was just answering a question a student had.  He wasn't "inserting himself," and he couldn't have "redirected them to ask the teacher who made the test," because he didn't even know it was from a test.

So hindsight being 20/20, do you see now how what you said doesn't apply to him there?
Well, you are either simply being ignorant or taking the piss, because only a mouth-breather would think that a student would ever ask you an English exam question for "shits-n-giggles", especially someone who is a known "ringer".

That is why, as others have said countless times, when asked a question, you ask "Why?" before sticking your foot in your mouth.

I had this happen once. Kid asked me like a week after getting their test back about something during class as I was walking around monitoring an activity. If I asked every kid who asked me a question why they were asking that question I wouldn't have time to teach...
Hey, you do it your way!  Give your opinion about questions from a test that you didn't write, nor edit!!!

When your relationship with your coteacher turns to crap, just don't come here and act the fool, like you don't know how it happened.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 04:40:08 PM by Pecan »

Offline Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2616 on: November 15, 2016, 04:39:10 PM »
This is what was said:

"My co-workers told me to never discuss test questions with my students after the exam. If my students had any questions about them, I was to send them straight to their Korean teacher who made the questions because my answers were inflammatory..."

Is it still hard for you to figure out what happened above, Mr. Tim?

Yes, that is what was initially said. When you called him out on that, he further clarified on what had occurred the one time there was an issue. He clearly demonstrated that your criticism wasn't entirely applicable in the situation.

At that point, rather than saying something like "Ah, well then what I said doesn't really apply to that particular situation," you dug in your heels and continued to insist he was in the wrong, saying he was just trying to justify it rather than accept responsibility.

You could've conceded while still taking the opportunity to make a suggestion on how to change moving forward, but instead you stuck with your usual condescending schtick. You could've been constructive, but you chose instead to just be a jerk.

Serious question: Is the way you talk to people in here an indication of how you talk to people face-to-face?

Offline JahMoo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2617 on: November 15, 2016, 04:41:29 PM »
Hindsight being 20/20, do you know understand what you did was wrong?

I ask, because it didn't sound like it from you post.

It sounded more like you were justifying it, rather than accepting responsibility for making trouble.

He said he didn't know it was a test question, so your earlier complaint didn't apply to that situation. He wasn't trying to meddle or second guessing the KETs, he was just answering a question a student had.  He wasn't "inserting himself," and he couldn't have "redirected them to ask the teacher who made the test," because he didn't even know it was from a test.

So hindsight being 20/20, do you see now how what you said doesn't apply to him there?
Well, you are either simply being ignorant or taking the piss, because only a mouth-breather would think that a student would ever ask you an English exam question for "shits-n-giggles", especially someone who is a known "ringer".

That is why, as others have said countless times, when asked a question, you ask "Why?" before sticking your foot in your mouth.

That's silly. Kids are supposed to ask questions in class, that's normal classroom behavior. Everytime they ask a question, you should ask why they're asking?! In what world?

Offline Pecan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2618 on: November 15, 2016, 04:44:32 PM »
Why you asking? ;)

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #2619 on: November 15, 2016, 04:56:25 PM »
What a day...

I teach at 4 schools (all of which want to do camp) and in May, I told my CT at one of my rural schools to let me know about Winter camp plans ASAP, as I work on a first come first serve basis.
I regularly reminded her and by July, 3 of my schools had locked in their dates, I'd signed my vacation days off and booked my plane tickets.

Today, 15th of November, she announces that she wants to do camp for Winter. Quite bluntly, I told her there was no way that was happening. She's convinced that it's unfair that I only teach camp at my 3 other schools. Apparently, explaining what first come first serve means didn't work.

To add to this, she comes to school with nothing short of bubonic plague, coughing and sneezing her lungs out, which is compounded by her habit of standing way too close to me. Delicately, I try to explain that she's aggravating her condition and she's potentially infecting me and all the students she comes into contact with. She goes on to leave used tissues all over my desk to, as if to stress the point that she couldn't care less.

The ace up her sleeve is to tell me, after lunch, that all the teachers will be going on a hike at 3pm. As usual, no prior notice is given, and I'm expected to walk up a mountain in my dress pants and oxfords.

That's completely disgusting and entirely passive aggressive  :huh:

 

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