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Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 523408 times)

Offline HaLo3

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1760 on: October 14, 2016, 05:18:07 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.
I've had conversations like this. "Korean is so easy! English doesn't make sense!" I find myself having to explain the differences that make English difficult for them also make Korean difficult for us.

Offline Mister Tim

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1761 on: October 14, 2016, 05:19:24 PM »
On the topic of learning Korean, I was thinking about that earlier with regards to the recent discussion about what native English speakers can offer that Korean teachers cant and how we're all going to be replaced by Koreans.

It had me wondering what Koreans might say if you were to ask them what they think would be better: Learning Korean from Koreans, or learning Korean from non-Koreans. I'm reasonably certain that they'd agree that someone learning Korean would be better off with at least one native speaker to learn from, even if his or her other teachers are non-native speakers, than he would be if none of his teachers were native speakers.

The question then would become would they make the connection that having an NET as part of a student's English education is a good thing, rather than moving towards removing them completely?

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1762 on: October 14, 2016, 05:20:19 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1763 on: October 14, 2016, 05:21:38 PM »
Guess how much Korean I knew prior to coming? Ssibal, Annyeong and Hajima. These were all speaking, too, I didn't know how to read hangeul. And why would I?

 ;D

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1764 on: October 14, 2016, 05:24:20 PM »
I usually just stick with the "this is how long you've studied English, this is how long I've studied Korean" and after repeating myself once or twice they get it. I don't try to explain how their ~beloved language~ could be difficult haha

Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1765 on: October 14, 2016, 05:27:22 PM »
;D

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1766 on: October 14, 2016, 05:27:31 PM »
I've experienced this as well. More than a few Koreans have said to me, "Why aren't you fluent in Korean yet? English is hard; Korean is easy." Usually this was said to me in Korean rather than in English. As I became more advanced in my Korean studies, I could increasingly understand what locals were saying to me.

Here's a good response- "Korean was easy for you because kids can more quickly pick up correct pronunciation and correct grammar. Korean has an objectively large number of sounds and an objectively large number of grammar points. Learning a language as an adult is really tough." Figure out how to say that in Korean.

If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1767 on: October 14, 2016, 05:31:22 PM »
;D

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

Hello! Don't touch me, f*ckface.

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 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1768 on: October 14, 2016, 05:36:09 PM »
I've experienced this as well. 

If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

I think Korean is pretty intuitive and reasonable, but that doesn't mean there isn't still a shit ton of stuff to learn and internalize. I still always ask ~ㄹ수있어요? for permission even though I know it's weird because I'm used to saying it more than ~도괜잖아요?

Like even if all the ways you can modify verbs and nouns are simple, you still have to remember ALL OF THEM

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1769 on: October 14, 2016, 05:42:15 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1770 on: October 14, 2016, 05:48:17 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE! 
Ignoring isnít the same as ignorance, you have to work at it.

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1771 on: October 14, 2016, 05:52:53 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE!

Haha really? I thought usually it was the other way around - listening is better than speaking. It is for me at least. When I hear the words or grammar I'm like oh yeah, this means that, but when trying to remember it to say it... uh... lol

I only just remembered how you actually say "this is better than that" because I'm teaching it and when I asked my students to say it in Korean I was like oh right, that is how you say it

I've been struggling to remember it whenever I want to say something to that extent in conversation for a while lol

Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1772 on: October 14, 2016, 05:56:13 PM »
If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

I proceed to lecture them on the meaning of scientific. Then they never talk to me again.

Win, win really.

Offline yirgacheffe

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1773 on: October 14, 2016, 06:02:10 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE!

Are you sure you're not actually talking about your dad's brother's wife? :P

Also, to add to the conversation, although I'm fluent in Korean, I still struggle with jargon and some hanja words. What gets me every time though is when I've known someone for quite a while (as in, at least a few months) and I don't understand one word they're like "Oh, well, if you study more, you'll get better" in a way that implies that they think I suck at Korean. ... Besides the obvious, my Korean is 10x better than your English. :rolleyes: This doesn't happen often but when it does... :evil:

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1774 on: October 14, 2016, 06:02:23 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE!


Weeeeeeird. It's the polar opposite for me. I could sit and listen to conversations in my office and understand about 70% of what people were saying. But like, my productive level is so astonishingly low. I can listen and read really well, and I can speak well enough to carry a conversation, but, yeah. Not good at speaking.

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1775 on: October 14, 2016, 06:04:57 PM »
I just remember 이모 vs 고모 as "this aunt" and "that aunt" and obviously your maternal aunt would be "this aunt" because your mom is close with her sister whereas your father wouldn't be close with his sister so she's "that aunt"

lmaooo

Offline yirgacheffe

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1776 on: October 14, 2016, 06:09:48 PM »
I just remember 이모 vs 고모 as "this aunt" and "that aunt" and obviously your maternal aunt would be "this aunt" because your mom is close with her sister whereas your father wouldn't be close with his sister so she's "that aunt"

lmaooo

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Makes sense. :laugh: To add to it, I don't like my 고모 so she's even more "that aunt" whereas I love my 이모.

Offline CO2

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1777 on: October 14, 2016, 06:12:17 PM »
@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.


Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE!

Haha really? I thought usually it was the other way around - listening is better than speaking. It is for me at least. When I hear the words or grammar I'm like oh yeah, this means that, but when trying to remember it to say it... uh... lol

I only just remembered how you actually say "this is better than that" because I'm teaching it and when I asked my students to say it in Korean I was like oh right, that is how you say it

I've been struggling to remember it whenever I want to say something to that extent in conversation for a while lol

I suppose it reminds me of The Tragically Hip's line

"I remember every fuc*king thing I know."

Well, of course you do. You have to know it. This is the same with speaking. You will always have 100% of your ability to speak Korean at any given time. If you don't remember how to say something, then you don't know it. You will always be running at 100% of what you know, whether it's 10 words or 10 000 words. Listening skills will never be 100%, even in your native tongue. There are 1000s of English words that you don't know, maybe they're scientific, maybe they're from a bygone age , maybe they're seldom used and only used in the by the most lugubrious folks.

But you will always have 100% of your readily available content at your disposal. If you have a brain fart, you don't really know it yet.   
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Offline FreddyPrinceWilliam

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1778 on: October 14, 2016, 06:13:59 PM »
If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

I proceed to lecture them on the meaning of scientific. Then they never talk to me again.

Win, win really.

How and when is that stock phrase engrained in Korean's minds. I'v heard it many times.

"It's a scientific language"

ok great...but like...how exactly?

Offline moonbrie

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1779 on: October 14, 2016, 06:15:44 PM »
I just remember 이모 vs 고모 as "this aunt" and "that aunt" and obviously your maternal aunt would be "this aunt" because your mom is close with her sister whereas your father wouldn't be close with his sister so she's "that aunt"

lmaooo

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Makes sense. :laugh: To add to it, I don't like my 고모 so she's even more "that aunt" whereas I love my 이모.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I honestly couldn't remember which was which for the life of me before, but now that I have "this" and "that" it's like the only one of the complicated kinship terms I'm solid on

 

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