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Author Topic: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0  (Read 523423 times)

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1260 on: September 28, 2016, 03:59:56 PM »
It's so annoying when a coteacher insists on making me explain the rules of an activity or game in English to third and fourth grade students, when the language in the instructions isn't part of the target language, and it's a game they haven't played before. Like, instead of forcing the students to listen to a minute or two of unrelated vocabulary that they can't understand, why not just explain the game to them in Korean? Or let me say a bit in English, then some Korean, then some English, then some Korean?

Being told instructions for a game in English is not improving the language skills of beginner students. It just wastes time and intimidates them.

Agreed!

But I've never understood the general Waygook consensus of NO KOREAN TO BE SPOKEN IN MY CLASSROOM BY ANYONE AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

Seems like madness to me  :-[

TEE doesn't work for beginners. Also, Korean is incredibly useful in the classroom, and without it you get ridiculous foreign teachers gesticulating wildly to a bunch of bemused students who can't quite figure out what he or she is trying to communicate. Then the game doesn't run smoothly, the students don't get the full effect of the activity, and it's generally just a waste of time.

Unless you're teaching students who already have a reasonably strong grasp of English, or unless you're teaching the same students for extended periods regularly in an immersion-like setting, using only English is a great way to waste time and make students frustrated in a classroom.

Offline The Arm

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1261 on: September 28, 2016, 04:04:49 PM »
It's so annoying when a coteacher insists on making me explain the rules of an activity or game in English to third and fourth grade students, when the language in the instructions isn't part of the target language, and it's a game they haven't played before. Like, instead of forcing the students to listen to a minute or two of unrelated vocabulary that they can't understand, why not just explain the game to them in Korean? Or let me say a bit in English, then some Korean, then some English, then some Korean?

Being told instructions for a game in English is not improving the language skills of beginner students. It just wastes time and intimidates them.

Agreed!

But I've never understood the general Waygook consensus of NO KOREAN TO BE SPOKEN IN MY CLASSROOM BY ANYONE AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

Seems like madness to me  :-[

TEE doesn't work for beginners. Also, Korean is incredibly useful in the classroom, and without it you get ridiculous foreign teachers gesticulating wildly to a bunch of bemused students who can't quite figure out what he or she is trying to communicate. Then the game doesn't run smoothly, the students don't get the full effect of the activity, and it's generally just a waste of time.

Unless you're teaching students who already have a reasonably strong grasp of English, or unless you're teaching the same students for extended periods regularly in an immersion-like setting, using only English is a great way to waste time and make students frustrated in a classroom.

Absolutely agree.

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1262 on: September 28, 2016, 04:09:55 PM »
To be fair it's not just western teachers that believe in TEE. I've met so many Korean teachers fresh out of teacher school who learned that they should speak English in English class, and then it's just a trainwreck for the first few lessons, until they get some classroom experience and realize it doesn't work.

Offline eggieguffer

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1263 on: September 28, 2016, 04:14:42 PM »
Quote
TEE doesn't work for beginners. Also, Korean is incredibly useful in the classroom, and without it you get ridiculous foreign teachers gesticulating wildly to a bunch of bemused students who can't quite figure out what he or she is trying to communicate. Then the game doesn't run smoothly, the students don't get the full effect of the activity, and it's generally just a waste of time.

Unless you're teaching students who already have a reasonably strong grasp of English, or unless you're teaching the same students for extended periods regularly in an immersion-like setting, using only English is a great way to waste time and make students frustrated in a classroom.

If you talk to a typical Korean teacher they'll assure you that at all levels they have some kids who can't understand a lick of English. Right up until they need to be taught only in Korean for the SAT tests. Hence TEE doesn't work at any level.  Which works out very nicely for them.

Offline donovan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1264 on: September 28, 2016, 04:35:49 PM »
It's so annoying when a coteacher insists on making me explain the rules of an activity or game in English to third and fourth grade students, when the language in the instructions isn't part of the target language, and it's a game they haven't played before. Like, instead of forcing the students to listen to a minute or two of unrelated vocabulary that they can't understand, why not just explain the game to them in Korean? Or let me say a bit in English, then some Korean, then some English, then some Korean?

Being told instructions for a game in English is not improving the language skills of beginner students. It just wastes time and intimidates them.

I agree. I wish the co-teacher were only there to explain the games sometimes. It's hard to add any amount of complexity to the game when the act of explaining it frustrates the kids with unrelated vocabulary and some drop out before even giving it a chance, or they give it a chance and find themselves lost halfway through.

I feel the same for keeping things 100% English. I'm at a school with many high level students and although I'm currently blessed with coteachers with equally high levels of proficiency, if that's not the case they might lose the respect of the class and classroom management suffers. For co-teachers who can't speak a lick of English, they're doing nobody a favor by mangling the language and confusing the students. In most cases they'll probably have to resort to Korea at some point anyway. (You might wonder why those teachers are teaching the language in the first place.)

On the other hand, I've had a co-teacher who was almost entirely concerned with keeping her rapport with students (she was a contract teacher who had known these kids for 4 years) and, despite having decent speaking ability, threw the baby out with the bathwater completely and spoke almost entirely in Korean with these kids, while not doing much to assist with games either.  That was incredibly frustrating.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 04:44:56 PM by donovan »

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1265 on: September 28, 2016, 04:36:16 PM »
Quote
TEE doesn't work for beginners. Also, Korean is incredibly useful in the classroom, and without it you get ridiculous foreign teachers gesticulating wildly to a bunch of bemused students who can't quite figure out what he or she is trying to communicate. Then the game doesn't run smoothly, the students don't get the full effect of the activity, and it's generally just a waste of time.

Unless you're teaching students who already have a reasonably strong grasp of English, or unless you're teaching the same students for extended periods regularly in an immersion-like setting, using only English is a great way to waste time and make students frustrated in a classroom.

If you talk to a typical Korean teacher they'll assure you that at all levels they have some kids who can't understand a lick of English. Right up until they need to be taught only in Korean for the SAT tests. Hence TEE doesn't work at any level.  Which works out very nicely for them.

Yes, I'm aware. I was saying that a lot of new Korean teachers do believe in TEE, until they start getting some classroom experience. So the problem of people trying to use TEE isn't just limited to western teachers, or Korean teachers. There are lots of people who believe in it, at least until they learn what they're doing.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1266 on: September 28, 2016, 04:40:36 PM »
URG going back to talking about how rice and noodles are stupid and even stupider together, today my school served me noodles ON TOP of rice  :rolleyes:.  Those stupid slimy clear noodles.

Noodles and rice are "stupid."

Imagine literally believing that two of the most common foods on earth are stupid.


If we want to talk about a stupid food, let's talk about cupcakes. They're so bad for you, they taste awful, and they're borderline poison. There is zero reason for cupcakes to exist.

I admire your penchant for healthy foodstuffs but what cupcakes did you eat that tasted so horrid?? Store bought ones, sure, but have you never had a good (homemade/bakery made) one?? Ever??  :huh:  If they're made well, they just seem like mini cakes to me. Though I will say that I generally don't like the icing that's put on them. That usually gets scraped off.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1267 on: September 28, 2016, 04:49:45 PM »
I don't do the "no Korean allowed" thing. As long as they're practicing the target language then we're good. Oftentimes the higher level students are helping explain things to the lower level students as well.

Offline JahMoo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1268 on: September 28, 2016, 04:50:20 PM »
URG going back to talking about how rice and noodles are stupid and even stupider together, today my school served me noodles ON TOP of rice  :rolleyes:.  Those stupid slimy clear noodles.

Noodles and rice are "stupid."

Imagine literally believing that two of the most common foods on earth are stupid.


If we want to talk about a stupid food, let's talk about cupcakes. They're so bad for you, they taste awful, and they're borderline poison. There is zero reason for cupcakes to exist.

I admire your penchant for healthy foodstuffs but what cupcakes did you eat that tasted so horrid?? Store bought ones, sure, but have you never had a good (homemade/bakery made) one?? Ever??  :huh:  If they're made well, they just seem like mini cakes to me. Though I will say that I generally don't like the icing that's put on them. That usually gets scraped off.
I agree with sixtieshappy. I don't like cupcakes and actually I don't like cake either. When I eat them, I usually only eat the icing (if it's good), and spend the rest of my week sugar-free.

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1269 on: September 28, 2016, 04:51:22 PM »
URG going back to talking about how rice and noodles are stupid and even stupider together, today my school served me noodles ON TOP of rice  :rolleyes:.  Those stupid slimy clear noodles.

Noodles and rice are "stupid."

Imagine literally believing that two of the most common foods on earth are stupid.


If we want to talk about a stupid food, let's talk about cupcakes. They're so bad for you, they taste awful, and they're borderline poison. There is zero reason for cupcakes to exist.

I admire your penchant for healthy foodstuffs but what cupcakes did you eat that tasted so horrid?? Store bought ones, sure, but have you never had a good (homemade/bakery made) one?? Ever??  :huh:  If they're made well, they just seem like mini cakes to me. Though I will say that I generally don't like the icing that's put on them. That usually gets scraped off.

I think you kind of answered your own question. One of the main things that makes a cupcake a cupcake is the icing. And the icing is gross. It's literally just sugar, colouring, and sometimes some flavour. Even you said you usually scrape off a large portion of a cupcake, because you don't like it. They're just an unnecessary food, that doesn't even taste good. It's like someone made super spongy bread, and just added a ton of sugar, and then a thick layer of sugar on top.


Offline Loki88

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1270 on: September 28, 2016, 05:00:47 PM »
It's so annoying when a coteacher insists on making me explain the rules of an activity or game in English to third and fourth grade students, when the language in the instructions isn't part of the target language, and it's a game they haven't played before. Like, instead of forcing the students to listen to a minute or two of unrelated vocabulary that they can't understand, why not just explain the game to them in Korean? Or let me say a bit in English, then some Korean, then some English, then some Korean?

Being told instructions for a game in English is not improving the language skills of beginner students. It just wastes time and intimidates them.

Agreed!

But I've never understood the general Waygook consensus of NO KOREAN TO BE SPOKEN IN MY CLASSROOM BY ANYONE AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

Seems like madness to me  :-[

Probably because any dissenting opinion is shouted down.

In general, but especially for lower level kids, I always try consider the time it would take to adequately explain the game in English as opposed to Korean and the bang for the buck I get wrt that time investment.  There are a number of cases where (imo) the time investment in explaining in English is not worth the loss in English practice time.

There's always the option to inadequately explain it in English (or Korean) which should never be the go to.

And Cowboy, I get you. I also have the opposite. My CT actually tells the kids to speak Korean when answering my questions...

Me: How are you today?
Student: Good, I ....
Her: 한국어. English is too hard.

Offline yirj17

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1271 on: September 28, 2016, 05:25:36 PM »
I think you kind of answered your own question. One of the main things that makes a cupcake a cupcake is the icing. And the icing is gross. It's literally just sugar, colouring, and sometimes some flavour. Even you said you usually scrape off a large portion of a cupcake, because you don't like it. They're just an unnecessary food, that doesn't even taste good. It's like someone made super spongy bread, and just added a ton of sugar, and then a thick layer of sugar on top.



Ahh. I also like cake without icing though. I think the only two frostings i enjoy are cream cheese based or light whipped kinds.

So I still think of cupcakes as cupcakes even if I don't eat the icing.  :cheesy:

Offline eggieguffer

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1272 on: September 28, 2016, 05:26:55 PM »
Quote
Yes, I'm aware. I was saying that a lot of new Korean teachers do believe in TEE, until they start getting some classroom experience. So the problem of people trying to use TEE isn't just limited to western teachers, or Korean teachers. There are lots of people who believe in it, at least until they learn what they're doing.

There are also lots of countries where TEE is used exclusively due to mixed nationality classrooms, and the kids there seem to learn English just fine.

Offline JahMoo

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1273 on: September 28, 2016, 05:49:24 PM »
I think you kind of answered your own question. One of the main things that makes a cupcake a cupcake is the icing. And the icing is gross. It's literally just sugar, colouring, and sometimes some flavour. Even you said you usually scrape off a large portion of a cupcake, because you don't like it. They're just an unnecessary food, that doesn't even taste good. It's like someone made super spongy bread, and just added a ton of sugar, and then a thick layer of sugar on top.



Ahh. I also like cake without icing though. I think the only two frostings i enjoy are cream cheese based or light whipped kinds.

So I still think of cupcakes as cupcakes even if I don't eat the icing.  :cheesy:
Cupcakes without icing are basically tiny muffins.

Offline gaelynwrites

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1274 on: September 28, 2016, 06:10:56 PM »
I hate the fact that I receive these improvement recommendations that are just shy of being helpful. "You need to plan the lessons more perfectly." Do you want me to make lesson plans for all of my classes now or should I boost the book's content with more non-book things? Have the homework prepared before hand - okay, can do, but when is it going to be translated? There isn't enough time in the work day for me to do the tasks and have my coT review and approve it.


Offline JNM

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1275 on: September 28, 2016, 06:21:19 PM »
I think you kind of answered your own question. One of the main things that makes a cupcake a cupcake is the icing. And the icing is gross. It's literally just sugar, colouring, and sometimes some flavour. Even you said you usually scrape off a large portion of a cupcake, because you don't like it. They're just an unnecessary food, that doesn't even taste good. It's like someone made super spongy bread, and just added a ton of sugar, and then a thick layer of sugar on top.



Ahh. I also like cake without icing though. I think the only two frostings i enjoy are cream cheese based or light whipped kinds.

So I still think of cupcakes as cupcakes even if I don't eat the icing.  :cheesy:
Cupcakes without icing are basically tiny muffins.

Actually, muffins have, during my lifetime, been corrupted to be basically cupcakes.

They used to be bran-filled things that grandfathers ate for roughage.


Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1276 on: September 28, 2016, 06:26:09 PM »
I think you kind of answered your own question. One of the main things that makes a cupcake a cupcake is the icing. And the icing is gross. It's literally just sugar, colouring, and sometimes some flavour. Even you said you usually scrape off a large portion of a cupcake, because you don't like it. They're just an unnecessary food, that doesn't even taste good. It's like someone made super spongy bread, and just added a ton of sugar, and then a thick layer of sugar on top.



Ahh. I also like cake without icing though. I think the only two frostings i enjoy are cream cheese based or light whipped kinds.

So I still think of cupcakes as cupcakes even if I don't eat the icing.  :cheesy:
Cupcakes without icing are basically tiny muffins.

Actually, muffins have, during my lifetime, been corrupted to be basically cupcakes.

They used to be actual food that was good.

Corrected that for you.

Offline donovan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1277 on: September 28, 2016, 06:28:22 PM »
I hate the fact that I receive these improvement recommendations that are just shy of being helpful. "You need to plan the lessons more perfectly." Do you want me to make lesson plans for all of my classes now or should I boost the book's content with more non-book things? Have the homework prepared before hand - okay, can do, but when is it going to be translated? There isn't enough time in the work day for me to do the tasks and have my coT review and approve it.

You get improvement recommendations?...

My wife is Korean and works in graphic design and gets the same kind of content-less criticism from her higher-ups, usually from people who wouldn't know the first thing about design. There's probably really know wrong with your work (as far as they can tell) but since they've gotta say something, might as well make it highly negative and dismotivating for the underling/ego-boosting for themselves. :lipsrsealed:

Offline JNM

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1278 on: September 28, 2016, 06:28:33 PM »
I think you kind of answered your own question. One of the main things that makes a cupcake a cupcake is the icing. And the icing is gross. It's literally just sugar, colouring, and sometimes some flavour. Even you said you usually scrape off a large portion of a cupcake, because you don't like it. They're just an unnecessary food, that doesn't even taste good. It's like someone made super spongy bread, and just added a ton of sugar, and then a thick layer of sugar on top.



Ahh. I also like cake without icing though. I think the only two frostings i enjoy are cream cheese based or light whipped kinds.

So I still think of cupcakes as cupcakes even if I don't eat the icing.  :cheesy:
Cupcakes without icing are basically tiny muffins.

Actually, muffins have, during my lifetime, been corrupted to be basically cupcakes.

They used to be actual food that was good.

Corrected that for you.

Thanks.  😊

Offline chupacaubrey

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #1279 on: September 28, 2016, 06:51:32 PM »
This is an ultra tepid rant but I'm curious if anyone has advice for this kind of situation:

Around exam season, I'll get questions from my CoT about grammar/asked to scan for errors on the test. There's almost always at least one or two tiny things (missing articles, tense confusion, whatever). I try to point it out in a laid-back way but they are always so hard on themselves when it happens. Like I'm going to judge them for not being perfectly fluent in two languages when I can hardly order coffee in Korean.

Anyway, outside of delivering awkward reassurance, what do y'all do? Just let it go? It's gotten to the point where I'm tempted to just let the errors slide (of course I could never) because it seems to bring out so much self-loathing.

 

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