December 12, 2017, 06:36:25 AM

Author Topic: something weird just happened and I don't know if I should be concerned...  (Read 13610 times)

Offline rachel23

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I think it might be pertinent to the converstation to mention that in Korea rape is not an offence that ends with the offender in jail. It is an offence where the offender is required to pay the victim "blood money", this has the tendancy to be around 8-10 thousand dollars. Sad to say that most judges are older men and therefore frequently will find that the woman should have known better, or dressed better, or should not have been drinking, or should have known not to be in that part of town at that time, or that the man was drunk and therefore could not make moral decisions, etc. etc.

You absolutely want your co-teacher involved, you absolutely want to notify EPIK, or the SMOE, or GEPIK. The police unfortunately will most likely NOT pursue the offender. That is not the justice system here.

Please take the issue very seriously and please be very careful.


I think what you said is really important but just incase people read your words literally "not an offence that ends with offender in jail" this is sometimes, but not always  the case. I was reading another poster's link to the article about Melissa, the SA teacher who was raped in 2009, and she declined the blood money that would have gotten him a reduced sentence in jail. It said she wanted the maximum sentence possible for rape which is four years in Korea. In the U.S. the average sentence is about 3 times that at almost 12 years.

Offline hayls66

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I think it might be pertinent to the converstation to mention that in Korea rape is not an offence that ends with the offender in jail. It is an offence where the offender is required to pay the victim "blood money", this has the tendancy to be around 8-10 thousand dollars. Sad to say that most judges are older men and therefore frequently will find that the woman should have known better, or dressed better, or should not have been drinking, or should have known not to be in that part of town at that time, or that the man was drunk and therefore could not make moral decisions, etc. etc.

You absolutely want your co-teacher involved, you absolutely want to notify EPIK, or the SMOE, or GEPIK. The police unfortunately will most likely NOT pursue the offender. That is not the justice system here.

Please take the issue very seriously and please be very careful.

Offline woman-king

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Reading all these stories certainly makes me uneasy. I've been relatively lucky because in my almost 2 years here, I've only had one weirdo try aggressively befriend me. If there is anything weird happening to you, just be RUDE! If you're being all nice and whatever, it's interpreted as consent for inappropriate behaviour. These creeps KNOW it's not right to follow a woman into a building or whatever. So stop and say NO! EFF OFF! GO AWAY! Hold out your phone and say 119!

Yeah I agree completely.

The shame culture is strong here. Scream at them and they will not be encouraged. A few choice words in their language are easy to learn too and can really make a difference - and catch the attention of other people around you.

I've had a couple of sexually aggressive encounters in 2 year but one with a couple of American soldiers and one a dude from Sri Lanka. I did have a Korean man flash me though. Me and my friend shouted the Korean for penis and small and laughed and pointed. Other people turned around and pointed also - he looked gratifyingly uncomfortable. But I imagine on your own it's a bit harder to brush it off.

Here's some good Korean to learn!!

하지마! (Ha ji ma) = stop that
자지 (ja ji) = penis
닥쳐 (dak chyae) = shut the f**k up
뭐 해 (mwo hay) = what are you doing
저리가 (ju ree ga) = go away

Ahhh thank you for those choice Korean phrases. :)  I agree that being rude, or stonefacing and walking away are best.  Never engage someone in a friendly way if they are making you uncomfortable.  At worst, you'll hurt a socially incompetent person's feelings, and I'll take that risk over compromising my personal safety any day.

Offline woman-king

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I think it is good to use this space to share stories because even though they are so similar by reading these stories your intuition and red flags may go off faster if you find yourself in a similar situation. Back in September I was walking to school, it is about a two minute walk from my apartment. I heard a man say. "teacher teacher!" I figured this was the father of one of my students so I turned around to say hello. He put his hand out to shake mine and I looked at him and my stomach flipped. His hands were shaking, he was sweating and not acting normal. I took my hand back before shaking his and he said "teacher you are so attractive. Let me touch you. I am going to touch you." I screamed NO! and turned around to keep walking. He said "teacher" again. Now this is where some of us have been taught to be kind above all things or try to see the best in people, I honestly thought if I turned around he would apologize. He said again, "I am going to touch you" and began trying to grab at my chest and butt and backing me into an alley against a wall. I was able to escape but I really feel if I hadn't he would have sexually assaulted or raped me. This was all yards from my school bright and early in the morning on path most of my students walk on. When i got to school crying and gasping everyone thought i was sick. No one who spoke English had gotten to work yet. My VP who is very sweet but also dances the line of creepiness quite often got down next to me and listened to my whole story nodding as I told him. He then stands up rubs his finger over his chest and says "nipple?" This is the last word you want to hear out of an old man's mouth after someone tried to attack you. I actually find it funny now because he was really trying to help but at the time it was awful. They thought a drunk man scared me and it was no big deal but when they realized what really happened they called the police. They never caught him though.

This violence is a problem everywhere and it is easy to give people suggestions to protect themselves  (go out in twos, don't drink to much blah blah) but that does not address the cause of the problem ... the root of this violence is a lot bigger and scarier than many cultures know how to  deal with which is why it is easy to blame the victims. I hope we can all take steps to bring information and education about sexual violence out in the open.

I agree that sharing stories is proactive and reading others' can help your own intuition go off.  Thanks for sharing yours, that is terrifying.

Offline DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP

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Police.  Report him to them.  Go with a Korean, preferably a male (they're taken more seriously than women.)

Fin.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 04:30:57 PM by DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP »

Offline bella4041

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I was under the impression that pepper spray and mace were illegal here so I left mine at home.  Anyone know if that's true?  If not, and it is legal to carry the stuff, anyone know where I can buy some?

After researching a bit, pepper spray is legal here, but only in the pump form. The aerosal type that is most common is considered a gas gun, which falls under the category of a weapon, and is illegal. I imagine there are places you can order it online, although mine was sent to me from home.

Offline GLondonful

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To the OP and the other ladies who have had "encounters": I'm so sorry that stuff like that has happened to you here.  I've never had an experience like that in Korea (possibly in part because I look Korean), but I can imagine it must've been traumatic.

I do want to say one thing about Korean culture.  Koreans often laugh when they feel uneasy or embarrassed.  They don't necessarily laugh because they think something is funny - sometimes it's a sign that they just don't know how else to respond.  I know this because one day I was in a car with some Korean teachers and one of them insulted a superior, and they all just started laughing like it was the funniest thing they'd ever heard.  I mean, it wasn't funny, but that was just sort of their natural reaction; it was so awkward they didn't know what else to do.  So if your CT laughed at your story, it might not necessarily be the case that she didn't take it seriously.  Maybe she was just really embarrassed.

Ladies - I think the most important thing is for us to be prepared mentally.  We do everything we can to avoid dangerous situations, but in the event that someone does physically assault you, you have to be prepared to hurt the other person seriously and without hesitation in order to get away.  If you get the opportunity, do not hesitate to put a pencil in their eye.  Tear earlobes.  Pee on them.  Kick their balls.  Fake compliance, and then kick their balls.  The decision to react like this is not a decision we should make while being assaulted; it's a decision we have to make beforehand, so that if that sort of situation ever arises, we don't think, we react.

You don't have to be bigger than the guy to be more vicious.

That said, we hope nothing like that ever happens.  Man, this is a nasty topic.

Offline woman-king

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To the OP and the other ladies who have had "encounters": I'm so sorry that stuff like that has happened to you here.  I've never had an experience like that in Korea (possibly in part because I look Korean), but I can imagine it must've been traumatic.

I do want to say one thing about Korean culture.  Koreans often laugh when they feel uneasy or embarrassed.  They don't necessarily laugh because they think something is funny - sometimes it's a sign that they just don't know how else to respond.  I know this because one day I was in a car with some Korean teachers and one of them insulted a superior, and they all just started laughing like it was the funniest thing they'd ever heard.  I mean, it wasn't funny, but that was just sort of their natural reaction; it was so awkward they didn't know what else to do.  So if your CT laughed at your story, it might not necessarily be the case that she didn't take it seriously.  Maybe she was just really embarrassed.

Ladies - I think the most important thing is for us to be prepared mentally.  We do everything we can to avoid dangerous situations, but in the event that someone does physically assault you, you have to be prepared to hurt the other person seriously and without hesitation in order to get away.  If you get the opportunity, do not hesitate to put a pencil in their eye.  Tear earlobes.  Pee on them.  Kick their balls.  Fake compliance, and then kick their balls.  The decision to react like this is not a decision we should make while being assaulted; it's a decision we have to make beforehand, so that if that sort of situation ever arises, we don't think, we react.

You don't have to be bigger than the guy to be more vicious.
That said, we hope nothing like that ever happens.  Man, this is a nasty topic.

I think you're completely correct--however, I have read/heard that Korean law doesn't have a "self-defense" provision.  In other words, it's not who started the fight but who did the most damage who pays the most, legally.  And then of course there is the issue that most of us are not ethnically Korean.  So if any of us are in a position where we end up ripping off an ear or gouging out someone's eye and escaping, your best bet is honestly to book a plane ticket home immediately and leave the country ASAP.  Even if you are detained by immigration, you will be put in contact with your embassy and given a lawyer--something that will not automatically happen if you're picked up for assault by the Korean police.    If I've gotten false information on this I'd love to hear, but . . .

Offline Michaela

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I've read so many of these creepy stories and I feel so lucky that none of this has happened to me or anyone I know.  It has however reminded me to stay alert despite being in a relatively safe country.  I agree that we should take things seriously and put safety first.  As women, we tend to be too nice sometimes even when we feel uncomfortable and even more so when we're in someone else's country, but rather be a rude foreigner than a victim.  I'm happy the OP is going to the police.  Does anyone know what happened to Melissa's rapist?  That trial is supposed to be over and I never heard if the guy even went to jail.

Offline Misojner

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@ Michaela

The last I heard was that he had been convicted and received jail time, but that it wasn't all that long (only a year or two, I can't remember the exact amount).

@ OP
South African defence mode, go!  Don't be afraid of overreacting if some creep is busy taking pictures of your while you sleep.  Take it to the police, and go with your coteacher if you can  Look, Melissa's case was terrifying, but it's also (thankfully) a rarity.  Still, when it comes to your personal safety, there's nothing wrong with a little caution, especially after this incident.
Curtains don't sound like a bad idea either.

Generally speaking, most Korean guys aren't perverts, weirdos, of lunatics.  But the ones who are do stand out, and the excuse of being drunk doesn't make things like this go down any easier.

Offline creeper1

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Could be that you got the guy all wrong. Ever seen the movie "American Beauty?"

Offline GLondonful

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I think you're completely correct--however, I have read/heard that Korean law doesn't have a "self-defense" provision.  In other words, it's not who started the fight but who did the most damage who pays the most, legally.  And then of course there is the issue that most of us are not ethnically Korean.  So if any of us are in a position where we end up ripping off an ear or gouging out someone's eye and escaping, your best bet is honestly to book a plane ticket home immediately and leave the country ASAP.  Even if you are detained by immigration, you will be put in contact with your embassy and given a lawyer--something that will not automatically happen if you're picked up for assault by the Korean police.    If I've gotten false information on this I'd love to hear, but . . .

I asked my co-teacher about this this morning, and she said that Korea does have a self-defense provision.  If someone attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself.  She said it depends on the situation, but generally, if you harm someone in self-defense, you will be "excused" for your actions.

She also said the photo stalker, the groper, AND the flasher were all "psychos," and that this is the general Korean opinion of those types of people.

@woman-king: Np.  :)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 09:58:02 AM by GLondonful »

Offline GLondonful

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Flashers are quite common here, and are generally taken rather lightly. There is even a word for them in Korean: 버버리맨 ("Burberry Man," since they used to wear burberry raincoats). They hang around outside of girls' elementary and middle schools. It's something of a rite of passage for girls to be flashed. Many people seem to believe that it's really harmless, as long as the creeps don't try anything else. The co-teacher's giggles are the standard response to flashers.

My co-teacher also said Koreans think "Burberry Man" is a synonym for "pervert," and that being flashed is not a normal experience for girls.

Offline woman-king

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I think you're completely correct--however, I have read/heard that Korean law doesn't have a "self-defense" provision.  In other words, it's not who started the fight but who did the most damage who pays the most, legally.  And then of course there is the issue that most of us are not ethnically Korean.  So if any of us are in a position where we end up ripping off an ear or gouging out someone's eye and escaping, your best bet is honestly to book a plane ticket home immediately and leave the country ASAP.  Even if you are detained by immigration, you will be put in contact with your embassy and given a lawyer--something that will not automatically happen if you're picked up for assault by the Korean police.    If I've gotten false information on this I'd love to hear, but . . .

I asked my co-teacher about this this morning, and she said that Korea does have a self-defense provision.  If someone attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself.  She said it depends on the situation, but generally, if you harm someone in self-defense, you will be "excused" for your actions.

She also said the photo stalker, the groper, AND the flasher were all "psychos," and that this is the general Korean opinion of those types of people.

Thanks for the follow-up.   

Offline Nemo

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Yea girls do not let your guard down. The crazy ones aren't going to advertise that they are crazy by taking random pictures of you like a nutter. Sometimes they will lure you away by looking and acting completely normal.

http://www.globalpost.com/webblog/south-korea/native-speaking-teacher-sexually-assaulted-in-anyang-0

This is an article about an American woman who was raped by three college students who sat and drank with her after her friends left her alone. They then took her to a motel and well you know the rest...and were quoted as saying  "At first we just wanted to sit and drink together, but when C became really drunk the idea of sexually assaulting her came to us."

Apparently teen sex crimes are increasing in Korea (decreasing in America and Japan, apparently) and frequently occur in groups with "50 percent of teenage rape cases occurring in groups ...and this tendency is higher in Korea than in other countries". :

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2007/04/09/2007040961005.html

It's kind of scary to read about but it's better to be informed. So just be aware anyone is capable of anything.

Offline Michaela

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@ Michaela

The last I heard was that he had been convicted and received jail time, but that it wasn't all that long (only a year or two, I can't remember the exact amount).

Then he's probably out by now - terrifying!

Offline DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP

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I think you're completely correct--however, I have read/heard that Korean law doesn't have a "self-defense" provision.  In other words, it's not who started the fight but who did the most damage who pays the most, legally.  And then of course there is the issue that most of us are not ethnically Korean.  So if any of us are in a position where we end up ripping off an ear or gouging out someone's eye and escaping, your best bet is honestly to book a plane ticket home immediately and leave the country ASAP.  Even if you are detained by immigration, you will be put in contact with your embassy and given a lawyer--something that will not automatically happen if you're picked up for assault by the Korean police.    If I've gotten false information on this I'd love to hear, but . . .

I asked my co-teacher about this this morning, and she said that Korea does have a self-defense provision.  If someone attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself.  She said it depends on the situation, but generally, if you harm someone in self-defense, you will be "excused" for your actions.

She also said the photo stalker, the groper, AND the flasher were all "psychos," and that this is the general Korean opinion of those types of people.

@woman-king: Np.  :)

Bear in mind that your coteachers will try to give you the glossy version of Korea.

When me and my friend were jumped by 4 Korean guys and faught back, even though we had actual injuries, torn clothes etc and they didn't - the cops still kept us for 48 hours, not them and we were fined 1.4mil won for a 2mm scratch on one of the guy's faces.  My black eye, ruined clothes and cuts all over my arms apparently were of no interest to them.

Korean laws are for Koreans.  Ask your co-teacher about that and see what she says.  No offense meant but i've been here a long time and have seen underneath the venear....

Offline woman-king

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I think you're completely correct--however, I have read/heard that Korean law doesn't have a "self-defense" provision.  In other words, it's not who started the fight but who did the most damage who pays the most, legally.  And then of course there is the issue that most of us are not ethnically Korean.  So if any of us are in a position where we end up ripping off an ear or gouging out someone's eye and escaping, your best bet is honestly to book a plane ticket home immediately and leave the country ASAP.  Even if you are detained by immigration, you will be put in contact with your embassy and given a lawyer--something that will not automatically happen if you're picked up for assault by the Korean police.    If I've gotten false information on this I'd love to hear, but . . .

I asked my co-teacher about this this morning, and she said that Korea does have a self-defense provision.  If someone attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself.  She said it depends on the situation, but generally, if you harm someone in self-defense, you will be "excused" for your actions.

She also said the photo stalker, the groper, AND the flasher were all "psychos," and that this is the general Korean opinion of those types of people.

@woman-king: Np.  :)

Bear in mind that your coteachers will try to give you the glossy version of Korea.

When me and my friend were jumped by 4 Korean guys and faught back, even though we had actual injuries, torn clothes etc and they didn't - the cops still kept us for 48 hours, not them and we were fined 1.4mil won for a 2mm scratch on one of the guy's faces.  My black eye, ruined clothes and cuts all over my arms apparently were of no interest to them.

Korean laws are for Koreans.  Ask your co-teacher about that and see what she says.  No offense meant but i've been here a long time and have seen underneath the venear....

Thanks for your story.  I think we've all heard enough similar-types of accounts to know that Korean laws favors Koreans--if technically not on paper, then in actual practice.  If it is your word against theirs, I'm not sure how "self-defense" would go down. 

Offline GLondonful

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Bear in mind that your coteachers will try to give you the glossy version of Korea.

When me and my friend were jumped by 4 Korean guys and faught back, even though we had actual injuries, torn clothes etc and they didn't - the cops still kept us for 48 hours, not them and we were fined 1.4mil won for a 2mm scratch on one of the guy's faces.  My black eye, ruined clothes and cuts all over my arms apparently were of no interest to them.

Korean laws are for Koreans.  Ask your co-teacher about that and see what she says.  No offense meant but i've been here a long time and have seen underneath the venear....

I could see this happening.  It's not a problem you only see in Korea, though.  If you went to America and didn't speak English and got into a fight (and you were a foreigner, i.e. not an American citizen), you might also find yourself in jail even though you didn't start it.  It's kind of hard to get justice when you don't speak the language.

Sucks that that happened, though.

Offline Snookie980

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Keep your eye out for wierdos like that.

There have been many instances of Foreign women being assaulted by Korean men.  Everything from guys on the street to taxi drivers. 

Protect yourself and dont put yourself in any situations where you can be taken advantage by:< 

Sorry to hear your having that happen, had a friend who had a really weird situation happen in a taxi cab last year.  She sat in the front of the cab and the guy started masterbating in front of her.  Luckily she jumped out of the cab when it was at a stoplight. 

Suffice to say Koreans here can be just as odd balled as anyone else anywhere in the world.