September 21, 2017, 09:37:34 PM


Author Topic: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.  (Read 9844 times)

Offline MayorHaggar

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2844
  • Gender: Male
  • Today we are all root beer
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #300 on: August 31, 2017, 05:14:26 PM »
While confederate statues aren't an issue I would normally get worked up about, I can't help but notice that there seems to have been a disturbing trend in recent years coming from college millennial of an entitlement that if " it offends you then it is okay to act as violent or uncivilized as possible to get rid of it." Events that took place a Berkley, The occupation of Evergreen, this most recent round of "Confederates... Muh Racism....Muh offensive..." are just the most recent in what has been a growing tide of intellectual protectionism and group think on college campuses. I remember a few years back when I was working on a masters degree, Christina Hoff Summers did a lecture at our school I was shocked by all the calls from students wanting her banned from campus, I could understand if it was Anne Coulter or Milo Yinnonoplis, I would still be against banning them but at least with the more firebrand and provocative speakers I can understand the impulse. However Christina Hoff Summers is far from a provocateur, she is an academic who may make strong criticisms of feminism, but always in a professional manner done with academic decorum. When I saw the conduct of students at the lecture, namely the ones who were opposed to Summers viewpoints I was even more disgusted that students of an institution of higher learning had such little self control and self respect as to act like a unruly mob rather than attendants of a lecture. There were frequent interruptions of the speaker, constant jeering, and when the Q&A section came no one student could fashion an effective question or criticism. It just turned into a contest of who could use the most buzz words in an attempt to label Summers as a misogynist, racist, Rape apologist. If this is now the standard for college students then I shutter to think what our Universities will look like in 20 years time, places where only one type of thought is taught and everything else is deemed offensive and forbidden. Some where along the line we never taught students how to deal with contradictory opinions or being offended. Now we have a whole group of self indulgent intellectual partisans.

Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 783
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #301 on: September 13, 2017, 02:43:45 AM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.



Imagine your Korea...

Offline Arabin

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #302 on: September 13, 2017, 10:40:39 AM »
Poor Aurata. Now he is reduced to necroing old fighting threads just to get his fix of attention. You can feel the panic about having his favourite conspiracy theory dumping ground die out. He had found a niche of people in the corner of the internet and could annoy them all day with his odd Putin love fantasies.

But now Aurata is facing the prospect of putting his brand of nutbaggery on the open market. And there he's just one of many, many cranks. All overshadowed by seasoned pros like Alex Jones.

Try harder.

You'll have to, kid. You'll have to.

Offline kyndo

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3696
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #303 on: September 13, 2017, 11:28:09 AM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.
     Given the timing and circumstances, I assume it was a last ditch effort to entice the slave states that bordered the Union from seceding. Obviously it didn't work.

      You'll note that when the Civil War actually happened, the Corwin Amendment was torpedoed. No need for it, as there was no longer any possibility for appeasement.

    That the American Civil War was started to defend the institution of slavery might be a gross oversimplification... but that issue (and the issue of increasingly centralised power) was at the heart of it.

     From casual discussion and random readings (I'm not American), I've been led to believe that keeping economic and independent political power was why the southernmost states seceded, formed the Confederacy, and got their miserable slaving arses kicked. Would you agree with that slightly broader explanation?
  :smiley:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:33:14 AM by kyndo »

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Gender: Male
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #304 on: September 13, 2017, 12:20:09 PM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.

This is just flat out wrong. That the war happened because of slavery is without question. Without slavery, that war does not happen. You might have a different civil war- one that would likely be fought between the traditional "Eastern" states (which would likely include Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia) joining New England and the Atlantic states) against the emerging "Western" states like Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas, Arkansas, possibly Louisiana over the Mississippi river and agriculture vs. the industrial-exporting areas of the East.

Slavery was the cause of the American Civil War. It had been brewing since the founding of the country and was further exacerbated by various European powers abolishing slavery, moral developments, westward expansion, and the Mexican-American War. Holding an entire race of people in permanent bondage made war inevitable in a country whose founding principle was "All men are created equal". Anyone who denies this is discounting history and the wealth of evidence that slavery was why the war happened.

This doesn't mean that individual soldiers didn't fight for other reasons, but the war was about slavery.

Offline Arabin

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #305 on: September 13, 2017, 01:12:55 PM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.

This is just flat out wrong. That the war happened because of slavery is without question. Without slavery, that war does not happen. You might have a different civil war- one that would likely be fought between the traditional "Eastern" states (which would likely include Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia) joining New England and the Atlantic states) against the emerging "Western" states like Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas, Arkansas, possibly Louisiana over the Mississippi river and agriculture vs. the industrial-exporting areas of the East.

Slavery was the cause of the American Civil War. It had been brewing since the founding of the country and was further exacerbated by various European powers abolishing slavery, moral developments, westward expansion, and the Mexican-American War. Holding an entire race of people in permanent bondage made war inevitable in a country whose founding principle was "All men are created equal". Anyone who denies this is discounting history and the wealth of evidence that slavery was why the war happened.

This doesn't mean that individual soldiers didn't fight for other reasons, but the war was about slavery.

Wow! So you admit the South fought for slavery. It's just that you see nothing wrong with that.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Gender: Male
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #306 on: September 13, 2017, 02:09:41 PM »
Wow! So you admit the South fought for slavery. It's just that you see nothing wrong with that.

I never made a value judgment on their cause. I simply stated why they fought and that certain soldiers fought for certain reasons and had a wide range of views. I stated that some of them were very able generals and that some by the standards of the time, treated their slaves comparatively well.

The problem is that you lack the ability to read and comprehend at a collegiate level and to engage in nuanced academic discourse, thus you misinterpret what people say and turn it into a simplistic caricature, possibly because you lack the intellectual capacity to process complex concepts- which has become painfully clear to many people on this board, even those that disagree with me and side with you.

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 783
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #307 on: September 13, 2017, 02:15:59 PM »
Eh, still beats trying to destroy America by starting a massive civil war to defend slavery.

You don't even know the history of your own country.

Hate to break it to you ..but the civil war was not to defend slavery.

That is an artistic moralistic reconstruction. Another piece of propaganda you swallowed without question.

You think the northern states were against slavery?

Then why did congress, consisting only of the Northern states, pass overwhelmingly on March 2, 1861, on the eve of the war itself, the Corwin Amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln endorsed the amendment in his inaugural address, saying “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Try harder.

This is just flat out wrong. That the war happened because of slavery is without question.

The north wasn't fighting against slavery. How could they be when on the very eve of the war the congress and incoming president were making it unconstitutional to abolish slavery?

How could the south be fighting for slavery, when the north wasn't fighting against it?

The real reason was economic. The north did not want to give up the high tarrifs and economic policies that the south objected to.

Blaming the war on slavery was the way the court historians used morality to cover up Lincolns naked aggression. Demonizing the enemy with moral language works for the victor.

And this is still a strong feature of politics.
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Arabin

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #308 on: September 13, 2017, 02:46:45 PM »
Wow! So you admit the South fought for slavery. It's just that you see nothing wrong with that.



The problem is that you lack the ability to read and comprehend at a collegiate level and to engage in nuanced academic discourse, thus you misinterpret what people say and turn it into a simplistic caricature, possibly because you lack the intellectual capacity to process complex concepts- which has become painfully clear to many people on this board, even those that disagree with me and side with you.

Struth I never did learn me letters, guv. It ain't my fault. I'm a simple  flower seller from the East End, I am.

I dream to reach such heights of intellectual probity and panache. I can only aspire to emulate the faintest wisps of your rhetorical mastery.

In face of such humble genius, I can but bow.

Nay, I can but weep.

Offline jddavis7

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
  • Gender: Female
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #309 on: September 13, 2017, 03:04:55 PM »
Imagine reviving a two week old thread because you thought of some more lies to shout and want people to listen to you. People who have never agreed with you and never will.

Offline Arabin

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #310 on: September 13, 2017, 03:12:46 PM »
Imagine reviving a two week old thread because you thought of some more lies to shout and want people to listen to you. People who have never agreed with you and never will.

Don't be harsh. They've lost the Daily Stormer to the dark web and now the paywall crisis. I think they want to get all the trolling they can get done while people still use this site.

This time next week, it's back to redpill subreddits and rubbing their crotch while browsing mangapanda.com

Offline kyndo

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3696
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #311 on: September 13, 2017, 03:58:51 PM »
The north wasn't fighting against slavery. How could they be when on the very eve of the war the congress and incoming president were making it unconstitutional to abolish slavery?
   The Corwin Compromise would make it unconstitutional for federal interference in State rights (including the permissibility of slavery), but what it didn't affect was the prohibition on spreading slavery to new territories. The southern states were pushing west just as the northern ones were, and were hell-bent on propagating their slave-based society. This is why the South rejected the Corwin amendment and went on to disunion. When this happened, the Corwin amendment was immediately pushed onto the rubbish heap. It was a half-measure (at best) meant to keep pro-slavery border states from leaving. Considering that Lincoln's entire platform was based on emancipation, I doubt that that amendment would have lasted very long even if it had succeeded in preventing disunion.

How could the south be fighting for slavery, when the north wasn't fighting against it?
     Even if your supposition were true, which it obviously isn't, the South was fighting for the right to propagate slavery in new territories, something that the Corwin amendment deliberately did not address.

The real reason was economic. The north did not want to give up the high tarrifs and economic policies that the south objected to.

      "The tariff issue was and is sometimes cited–long after the war–by Lost Cause historians and neo-Confederate apologists. In 1860–61 none of the groups that proposed compromises to head off secession raised the tariff issue. Pamphleteers (North and South) rarely mentioned the tariff,and when some did, they were generally writing for a foreign audience."

    I looked up some info on how the tariff issue affected secession, and the sites that tended to play it up were generally far-right (such as this one). This seems like pretty good corroboration of the above quote.
     Economics was definitely important, but tariffs were a very minor part of it. The proposed tariffs were only a symptom of the intense competition between the conflicting systems of industry: mechanisation in the north versus slavery in the south. In addition, the new tariffs only restored the economic balance between north and south that the previous democratic administrations (all pro-slave southern based) had skewed in favour of the South, which isn't something rational people secede over.

    Blaming the war on slavery was the way the court historians used morality to cover up Lincolns naked aggression. Demonizing the enemy with moral language works for the victor. And this is still a strong feature of politics.
  Yes. That's how we all picture ol' Abe: naked and frothing at the mouth.  :smiley:
    But seriously, it was pretty clear that the first military actions were the seizure of federal forts and forces in the pro-slave states. Demonizing works equally well for lost cause revisionists, apparently. Bullshit media isn't exactly a new thing.


Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Gender: Male
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #312 on: September 13, 2017, 05:47:11 PM »
The north wasn't fighting against slavery. How could they be when on the very eve of the war the congress and incoming president were making it unconstitutional to abolish slavery?

How could the south be fighting for slavery, when the north wasn't fighting against it?

The real reason was economic. The north did not want to give up the high tarrifs and economic policies that the south objected to.

Blaming the war on slavery was the way the court historians used morality to cover up Lincolns naked aggression. Demonizing the enemy with moral language works for the victor.

And this is still a strong feature of politics.

This ignores every single event in the run up to the war- from the events I previously discussed to more immediate ones like Bleeding Kansas and John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry. It ignores the fact that the single most popular book in the world, besides the Bible, was Uncle Tom's Cabin which had a profound effect on its readers.

The reason the North and the South fought over Union and States' Rights was the States' Right to have slavery.

But the primary flaw in the "Not because of slavery" argument is this- It ignores the fact that millions of people could look out at race-based chattel slavery, in a country that was a democracy founded on the principle of "All Men are Created Equal", combined with the traditions of Christianity, and global opinion against slavery, and NOT believe that it was a vile institution that they were morally opposed to at a most basic level.

People, even back then, were appalled at the institution.

Now, as I said, not everyone fought for or against slavery. You get 100 people, you'll get 100 different reasons for fighting. But the cause of the war was slavery.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
  • Gender: Male
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #313 on: September 13, 2017, 05:52:30 PM »

Struth I never did learn me letters, guv. It ain't my fault. I'm a simple  flower seller from the East End, I am.

I dream to reach such heights of intellectual probity and panache. I can only aspire to emulate the faintest wisps of your rhetorical mastery.

In face of such humble genius, I can but bow.

Nay, I can but weep.

For effs sake dude, no one is asking you to be Cicero, I'm simply asking you to try and read things with a little nuance, not go with the first thought that jumps in your head and sticking with it, and actually reading thoroughly.

You've mentioned before how my posts are "too long". This suggests that you lack patience and attention span, which strongly correlates with poor reading comprehension and poor critical thinking. In those "too long" posts are sentences and concepts that provide important background, nuance, and qualification to what I'm writing.

Also, you're juvenile replies are really getting tiresome. Either come with facts and some halfway-decent debate/discussion or stop bothering.

Aurata may be wrong on this issue, but at least he's engaging in a half-way mature, educated discussion. I'd rather debate him being wrong in that manner than deal with the absolute nothing you are bringing.

Offline Arabin

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #314 on: September 13, 2017, 06:04:13 PM »

Struth I never did learn me letters, guv. It ain't my fault. I'm a simple  flower seller from the East End, I am.

I dream to reach such heights of intellectual probity and panache. I can only aspire to emulate the faintest wisps of your rhetorical mastery.

In face of such humble genius, I can but bow.

Nay, I can but weep.

For effs sake dude, no one is asking you to be Cicero, I'm simply asking you to try and read things with a little nuance, not go with the first thought that jumps in your head and sticking with it, and actually reading thoroughly.

You've mentioned before how my posts are "too long". This suggests that you lack patience and attention span, which strongly correlates with poor reading comprehension and poor critical thinking. In those "too long" posts are sentences and concepts that provide important background, nuance, and qualification to what I'm writing.

Also, you're juvenile replies are really getting tiresome. Either come with facts and some halfway-decent debate/discussion or stop bothering.

Aurata may be wrong on this issue, but at least he's engaging in a half-way mature, educated discussion. I'd rather debate him being wrong in that manner than deal with the absolute nothing you are bringing.

Yet here you are.

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 783
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #315 on: September 14, 2017, 01:09:31 AM »
I assume it was a last ditch effort to entice the slave states that bordered the Union from seceding. Obviously it didn't work.

Obviously the north wanted to keep the south in the union far more than it cared about slavery.

In fact they so didn't care about slavery, that they were prepared to make it irrevocable, just to keep the southerners on board. Hardly the enlightened humanitarians that they're portrayed as.

Do you really think that northerners were prepared to send hundreds of thousands of their sons to die for some black people that only a few days earlier they were prepared to condemn to indefinite slavery?

But you're still convinced that northerners fought the civil war to end slavery?

Quote
keeping economic and independent political power was why the southernmost states seceded, formed the Confederacy, Would you agree with that slightly broader explanation?

Yeah thats reasonable. Washington was up to its usual tricks of subverting the constitution and centralizing all the power with themselves. They're still at it today.

This is the given reason that southerners gave for fighting. It was about the constitution. Not slavery  :rolleyes:

 
Quote
and got their miserable slaving arses kicked.

Now you've bought into the whole morality propaganda.

The winners, who write the history books, always try to demonize the losers and present themselves as holding the moral high ground.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Quote
bent on propagating their slave-based society...this is why the South rejected the Corwin amendment and went on to disunion.

now you're making zero sense   ;D

If their real concern was maintaining slavery, the south would not have turned down the constitutional protection of slavery offered them on a silver platter. Clearly, for the South the issue was not slavery.

Quote
got their slave-owning as*es kicked

hate to burst your self-righteous moralistic bubble, but only a small minority of southerners owned slaves.

Diaries and letters of soldiers fighting for the confederacy and for the union provide zero evidence that they were fighting for or against slavery. Instead, it reveals that they were fighting over  different understandings of the constitution.

Read What They Fought For, 1861-1865 James M. McPherson

The whole slavery nonsense is a post-war propaganda narrative.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 01:13:23 AM by Aurata »
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 783
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #316 on: September 14, 2017, 01:34:28 AM »
This ignores every single event in the run up to the war- from the events I previously discussed to more immediate ones like ...


The stated purpose of the war had nothing to do with slavery.

Here is the actual US senate War aims resolution:

Quote
This war is not waged in any spirit of oppression, or for any purpose of conquest or subjugation, or purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or established institutions of those Southern states, but to defend the Constitution, and to preserve the Union”

Even Lincoln himself stated that:

Quote
“My paramount objective in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”

He wrote that in a letter to the New York tribune: August 22nd 1822.

Washingtons endless self-serving propaganda machine has protected americans from reality for a looong time.
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Life Improvement

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2293
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #317 on: September 14, 2017, 10:22:08 AM »
He wrote that in a letter to the New York tribune: August 22nd 1822.

False and false. Wasn't in 1822 (when Abe was 12), and neither was it in the New York Tribune.

http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/lincoln/letter-to-horace-greeley-august-22-1862/

Better to look at the pragmatism of Lincoln than take one quote out of context and infer something nefarious.

Offline kyndo

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3696
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #318 on: September 14, 2017, 10:58:04 AM »
I assume it was a last ditch effort to entice the slave states that bordered the Union from seceding. Obviously it didn't work.

Obviously the north wanted to keep the south in the union far more than it cared about slavery.

Well...duh. Keeping a hand on the reins of power... that's what politicians do. But -- now here's a crazy idea! -- did you know that things can be done for more than a single reason? I understand that it makes the world a bit harder for people who want to view everything in black and white, but it's true!
So yes, i agree that maintaining the union was a huge priority, but that doesn't negate that the *reason* the south was so disaffected was due to the north's abolitionist stance.
And by the way, that tariff garbage is pure drivel: it was a factor in the south's secession, but in no way the central one. Folk who try to make it out to be are lost-cause revisionists.

In fact they so didn't care about slavery, that they were prepared to make it irrevocable, just to keep the southerners on board. Hardly the enlightened humanitarians that they're portrayed as.
This has already been addressed. Several times. Scroll up.

Do you really think that northerners were prepared to send hundreds of thousands of their sons to die for some black people that only a few days earlier they were prepared to condemn to indefinite slavery?
People have been willing to send hundreds of thousands of people to their deaths for the most ridiculously tiny bit of religious minutia so it doesn't seem strange to me that some would go to war to impose ONE OF THEIR COUNTRY'S FOUNDING PRINCIPLES on a bunch of folk who are dead set on balancing said country in a constitutionally illegal secession.
Also, if you want to read about some dumb wars, here's an interesting list.

But you're still convinced that northerners fought the civil war to end slavery?
That was one of the main reasons, yes. You haven't pointed out any logical reason to believe otherwise.

Quote
keeping economic and independent political power was why the southernmost states seceded, formed the Confederacy, Would you agree with that slightly broader explanation?
This is the given reason that southerners gave for fighting. It was about the constitution. Not slavery  :rolleyes:
Interesting, because the Southerner's secession was unconstitutional by any reckoning (even by present day Confederate wanna-bes).
Southerners seceded because of perceived (and real) infringement on state-rights: the democratically elected federal government (that was elected even despite the fact that the slaves themselves couldn't vote)  wanted to make it illegal to own slaves. The two were intrinsically related.

Quote
and got their miserable slaving arses kicked.
Now you've bought into the whole morality propaganda.
The winners, who write the history books, always try to demonize the losers and present themselves as holding the moral high ground.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I agree. The winners do write history... but sometimes the story doesn't need embellishments. This was one of those cases.

Quote
bent on propagating their slave-based society...this is why the South rejected the Corwin amendment and went on to disunion.

now you're making zero sense   ;D

If their real concern was maintaining slavery, the south would not have turned down the constitutional protection of slavery offered them on a silver platter. Clearly, for the South the issue was not slavery.
This was already addressed. It wasn't enough: Southern states wanted to propagate slavery into new territories, which the north forbade, and the appeasement didn't address this issue.

Quote
got their slave-owning as*es kicked

hate to burst your self-righteous moralistic bubble, but only a small minority of southerners owned slaves.
And that small, wealthy, politically powerful minority had their slave-owning butts kicked, yes.

Diaries and letters of soldiers fighting for the confederacy and for the union provide zero evidence that they were fighting for or against slavery. Instead, it reveals that they were fighting over  different understandings of the constitution.
Yes. Like others have mentioned, soldiers and polititians often have different reasons for fighting a war. Amazing!
And fighting for the sacrosanctness of state-rights was, in the case of the American Civil War, the same as fighting to uphold the right to own slaves. Again, this was already mentioned several times.

The whole slavery nonsense is a post-war propaganda narrative.
Thousands of scholars, both American and not, would disagree. But I respect your right to express your opinions: they're often pretty thought provoking. For example, I've learned more about the Civil War in the last few day than I ever wanted. Thanks, I guess.  :undecided:
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 11:07:05 AM by kyndo »

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 783
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Spoiled Millennials take down Confederate Statue and kick it.
« Reply #319 on: September 15, 2017, 12:48:17 AM »
Wasn't in 1822 (when Abe was 12), and neither was it in the New York Tribune.

Who cares if I got one digit in the date wrong? Its the words of Abraham Lincoln to the nation.

Quote from: kyndo
Lincoln's entire platform was based on emancipation

 :laugh:

You guys make me laugh.

Let me bring you into reality for a moment. Try reading the collected works of Abraham Lincoln.
https://www.amazon.com/Collected-Works-Abraham-Lincoln/dp/143447710X

Lincoln was a lifelong advocate of the deportation of black people from America. He was a manager of the Illinois colonization society, which used tax funding to deport blacks from that state. Lets see what he had to say about blacks:

Quote
“Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and . . . favorable to . . . our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime” (CW, vol. II, p. 409).

Quote
“Free them [i.e. the slaves] and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this . . . . We cannot then make them equals” (CW, vol. II, p. 256.

Quote
“What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races” (CW, vol. II, p. 521).

Quote
“I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races . . . . I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary” (CW, vol. III, p, 16).

Quote
“I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races . . . . I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people” (CW, vol. III, pp. 145-146).

Quote
“I will to the very last stand by the law of this state [Illinois], which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes” (CW, vol. III, p. 146).

Quote
“Senator Douglas remarked . . . that . . . this government was made for the white people and not for the negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so too” (CW, vol. II, p. 281)

Thats before we even get onto his inaugural address, delivered March 4th 1861 (just before the civil war) which is probably the most powerful defence of slavery ever made by an American politician.


You don't have a clue kyndo. or LI. neither of you.

You both exemplify a generation of americans brainwashed by Washington, that have forgotten how to think independently and cling to the most simplistic and emotive explanations.


Imagine your Korea...

 

Buy/Sell/Trade

Employment