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Author Topic: New student with a horrible attitude  (Read 1200 times)

Offline gir0002

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New student with a horrible attitude
« on: July 17, 2017, 03:24:30 PM »
So I've had this new student in my grade 3 class and since he settled down in the school, he completely changed. I've never had a student act up as much as him. I've had difficult students in the past but I've always been able to at least get them to participate in games and things they enjoy and at least get some respect from them. However, this student seems to have 0 respect for me and his homeroom teacher. As soon as I enter the room, he starts screaming at me in Korean that I'm ugly, I'm an idiot, I smell etc. The insults itself don't hurt me but more so, I feel angry at how disrespectful he is being. He doesn't only do it when I enter but he proceeds to constantly do it the entire lesson. No matter what I do, he never listens to a single thing but instead laughs at me and copies and mocks whatever I say and in most cases, he doesn't have the rest of the class on his side because I make the entire class wait until he stops and they look angrily at him sometimes but he just continues acting like that for the entire lesson. His homeroom teacher is usually sitting in the room during the class and she tries to control him but he does the exact same thing to her. I've wanted to give him some kind of punishment also but I think I would need help with that so I'd need to discuss with the homeroom teacher or something about that.

I've never experienced a student that was this difficult before. I am planning to speak to the vice principal about him and get her opinion but I'm curious if anyone has dealt with a student like this that won't listen or participate no matter what and is really disrespectful? What did you end up doing? Did you find anything that worked well or not well?

Online Chinguetti

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 03:35:59 PM »
Honestly sounds like the kid has some personal issues outside of the school that he's bringing into the classroom with him, so that's something to keep in mind.

If they're disruptive enough, I start by taking the child out of the class and speaking with him/her privately. Maybe ask them about why they're behaving that way. That's normally effective enough.

But if they continue to be openly disrespectful, I would kick them out altogether. That's an option for me. I understand that's not an option for many, though.

And, honestly, I've only had to do it once. Normally a short "discussion" out in the hallway is enough to curb the behavior, but I did get that one student who just didn't give a shit about any authority figure, Korean or otherwise. He was a problem for the entire school and eventually ended up getting expelled. Last I heard, he'd been expelled from two other schools after my own. 

Outside of having that private discussion with the kid, discussing the problem with your coT/homeroom teacher, and/or getting the VP/P involved, I don't think there's much more you can do. You say the student isn't just disrespectful towards you but towards his own homeroom teacher as well, and by the sounds of it he hasn't been made to face any real consequences of his behavior, yet. So yeah, discuss possible consequences with your school, and maybe, if your school has one, getting a counselor involved.

Offline nonplayablecharacter

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 03:39:11 PM »
I'm guessing this is elementary school? Does your school have a reward system, like stickers/stamps traded for prizes/market day?

It's difficult as a native teacher to discipline, but sometimes the incentives are enough for a child to try to behave the right way. It really depends on the student. I started giving stamps for good work and good behavior and that helped a lot. I know it's not the ideal solution probably from a psychological standpoint.

I also found that difficult students didn't feel as enticed to act rude once they were ignored by both the teachers and the students. It's pretty shameful to get the cold shoulder from everybody. But, it can be difficult to do this because almost inevitably, someone will give him some type of attention for the bad behavior.

I have, in the past, told students to leave the class. Your mileage may vary, but it has worked ok for me. Some schools, for obvious reasons, might not be ok with this. But I think it's better than losing your cool and yelling at a child.

I would also advise talking to the homeroom teacher, not the vice principal. It could potentially embarrass her if you go "above her head". I know that's not your intention, but it could be seen that way.

Offline gir0002

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 03:45:41 PM »
Honestly sounds like the kid has some personal issues outside of the school that he's bringing into the classroom with him, so that's something to keep in mind.

If they're disruptive enough, I start by taking the child out of the class and speaking with him/her privately. Maybe ask them about why they're behaving that way. That's normally effective enough.

But if they continue to be openly disrespectful, I would kick them out altogether. That's an option for me. I understand that's not an option for many, though.

And, honestly, I've only had to do it once. Normally a short "discussion" out in the hallway is enough to curb the behavior, but I did get that one student who just didn't give a shit about any authority figure, Korean or otherwise. He was a problem for the entire school and eventually ended up getting expelled. Last I heard, he'd been expelled from two other schools after my own. 

Outside of having that private discussion with the kid, discussing the problem with your coT/homeroom teacher, and/or getting the VP/P involved, I don't think there's much more you can do. You say the student isn't just disrespectful towards you but towards his own homeroom teacher as well, and by the sounds of it he hasn't been made to face any real consequences of his behavior, yet. So yeah, discuss possible consequences with your school, and maybe, if your school has one, getting a counselor involved.

Yeah, about the outside of school thing, I think he's in a orphanage so that's probably a big thing and I doubt talking to him in the hall will do much, unless one of the more scary Korean teachers did it.
I do agree that he probably hasn't really felt any of the consequences so I guess your suggestion about talking to other staff about it is probably the only way to combat it.

Offline gir0002

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 03:48:40 PM »
I'm guessing this is elementary school? Does your school have a reward system, like stickers/stamps traded for prizes/market day?

It's difficult as a native teacher to discipline, but sometimes the incentives are enough for a child to try to behave the right way. It really depends on the student. I started giving stamps for good work and good behavior and that helped a lot. I know it's not the ideal solution probably from a psychological standpoint.

I also found that difficult students didn't feel as enticed to act rude once they were ignored by both the teachers and the students. It's pretty shameful to get the cold shoulder from everybody. But, it can be difficult to do this because almost inevitably, someone will give him some type of attention for the bad behavior.

I have, in the past, told students to leave the class. Your mileage may vary, but it has worked ok for me. Some schools, for obvious reasons, might not be ok with this. But I think it's better than losing your cool and yelling at a child.

I would also advise talking to the homeroom teacher, not the vice principal. It could potentially embarrass her if you go "above her head". I know that's not your intention, but it could be seen that way.

Yeah, elementary. Mine doesn't have a reward system. I also usually think it's not good psychologically but this could be a situation where it's needed.
I'm afraid if I just send him out, he's just going to mess around in the hallways or just try to distract the class from the outside.
The main reason I go to the vice principal is because she speaks English very well and the grade 3 homeroom teacher can't speak English. Maybe I'll ask if the vice principal can have a discussion about it with me and the homeroom teacher since he seems to be a problem for her also

Online Chinguetti

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 04:01:52 PM »
I'm afraid if I just send him out, he's just going to mess around in the hallways or just try to distract the class from the outside.

Oh, he'll definitely try to wander off or do stupid shit outside of the classroom. If sending him out of the classroom is an option, you'd have to have your coT or the homeroom teacher monitor him.

Also, kicking him out of the class doesn't need to be for the entire class period. If the homeroom teacher successfully manages to get him to agree to behave himself in the classroom, he can come back in.

But it doesn't sound like it'll be that easy, in your case. He's probably acting out because he wants the attention, and in his mind any attention is good attention. So you'll need to work with your coT/homeroom teacher to better direct that energy into something more appropriate, if possible. Sometimes all it takes is a few heart-to-heart talks. Other times it requires further disciplinary methods. If this is elementary school, he'll need to have boundaries not only spelled out for him, but 100% enforced. He'll also need to be shown that he matters, most likely, even when he's not misbehaving.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 04:10:39 PM by Chinguetti »

Offline gir0002

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 05:18:40 PM »
I'm afraid if I just send him out, he's just going to mess around in the hallways or just try to distract the class from the outside.

Oh, he'll definitely try to wander off or do stupid shit outside of the classroom. If sending him out of the classroom is an option, you'd have to have your coT or the homeroom teacher monitor him.

Also, kicking him out of the class doesn't need to be for the entire class period. If the homeroom teacher successfully manages to get him to agree to behave himself in the classroom, he can come back in.

But it doesn't sound like it'll be that easy, in your case. He's probably acting out because he wants the attention, and in his mind any attention is good attention. So you'll need to work with your coT/homeroom teacher to better direct that energy into something more appropriate, if possible. Sometimes all it takes is a few heart-to-heart talks. Other times it requires further disciplinary methods. If this is elementary school, he'll need to have boundaries not only spelled out for him, but 100% enforced. He'll also need to be shown that he matters, most likely, even when he's not misbehaving.

Yeah, probably is I don't have a co and because of how crazy I know this class is, I basically told the grade 3 teacher that I need to teach it in her room with her there

Offline thunderlips

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 06:12:50 PM »
A few options;

1) make him your best friend/teacher's pet. Bring him to the front of the room stand next to you, pass out papers, erase the board, etc. He may just want that attention, positive or negative.

2) make him the pariah. Punish the entire class for his bad behavior. This will either make him change or just have all the other kids hate him.

3) Ignore him. 100% he isn't there, for bad behavior.


Offline nelsonr22

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 10:11:33 PM »
I agree with thunderlips. I have used his first and third strategies with different students.  The first was for a student who was developmentally disabled.  I was working without a co-teacher.  If he didn't get enough attention he would reenact pornography that he saw somewhere.  I made sure I could speak his name perfectly and then made him my class assistant.  He got an extra candy for being a leader when the others were rewarded.  The other was for a boy who was 15, obviously drunk half the time, and was already being ignored by his homeroom teacher.  He'll be bagging groceries at the Hanaromart after the army is through with him.

Offline pkjh

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 10:18:23 PM »
He'll be bagging groceries at the Hanaromart after the army is through with him.
If he even finishes high school. Korean Army don't take dropouts anymore, and without a service record (or papers excusing national service), he ain't getting any good jobs.

Offline creview

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 12:24:51 AM »
When you said he's from an orphanage, that explained a lot. Being an orphan is really looked down upon in Korea. Even being raised by 1 parent is quite looked down upon. One of the teachers at my school is ashamed of the fact that her daughter is being raised by her ex-husband and she donates regularly to a charity that supports single parents. My kids bullied one of my students who didn't have a mother so badly that she went to another school. He's acting out because he's ashamed and he's probably not good at English which makes him more embarrassed. He could be using you as a target because you're a foreigner, insulting you so he feels more important than SOMEBODY. Having the class against him isn't effective because he probably already feels like they don't like him. He probably feels like nobody likes him. I would try talking with him and befriending him. I never had behavior that bad but with my rude students, befriending them stopped their bad behavior. This might not be possible though. I would definitely talk to the VP and other teachers as well. If they're having the same problems as you, it could be he just has a problem with all authority figures. If there's SOMEONE he respects, try to get them to talk to him. If he sees someone he respects treating you with respect, he might follow suit.

Offline pkjh

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 10:45:54 AM »
Even being raised by 1 parent is quite looked down upon.
I'm willing to bet if you took a survey of how many kids in high school have divorced parents, it'll be close to half. Not sure if it's looked down upon, but just not talked about. Probably a good chunk of the teachers in your school are divorced.

Offline traversing

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 02:32:36 PM »
The only time I've had students that disrespectful was when I worked at a hagwon. Usually during those classes the director would stand in the room or threaten to watch the kids on cctv.

I recently watched a documentary from the UK called "The Nurture Room" it's about how a school in Glasgow are trying to help children with violent, disruptive, and/or just disrespectful behavior. Unfortunately I don't think there's anything like that in at least most Korean schools. But it may help to watch to see how these kids are being interacted with by the nurture room teacher. What's going on with this student is deep, so negative attention may make it worse.

Offline gir0002

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 02:55:17 PM »
negative attention may make it worse.

This is a problem I think. I've been kind of analyzing this student and I can't seem to work him out. With other problem children, I've been able to work out what it is that makes them that way during class and implement things to improve their behaviour.
With this child, with negative attention, he seems to get angry and act up more and with positive attention, he seems to see it as affirmation of his bad actions. So I'm currently unsure which direction to go. It seems with this child, it's not as simple as positive or negative but it's gotta be something more complicated. It's driving me insane as well. Every lesson I have with him in the room drives me insane. Even today, I felt so angry after that lesson because of how he acted towards me.

Offline reifoo87

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 04:24:05 PM »
I had a student similar to this, although not quite as bad, I believe. She would constantly call out nasty things during class and try to get other kids to talk with her. If I said positive things to her such as "good job" or "you're doing well today", it would just make her act up more. If I was strict with her, it would only last a hot minute and then she'd be back to her disruptive self. So one day, I just decided to ignore her comments, and if it were unavoidable I would just turn the negative things she said into a joke to make the whole class laugh. E.g. She would call me ugly, so I would say like "What are you talking about? I'M SO BEAUTIFUL! CANT YOU SEE?" and try to make some cute(stupid) eigyo face. She is still talkative in class, but shes definitely calmed down. I don't know if it was because of what I did or whether she just got used to my classes but maybe you could give it a try too! Hope it all works out!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 04:28:08 PM by reifoo87 »

Offline KirbyFan112

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Re: New student with a horrible attitude
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 12:40:26 AM »
This is why I stopped teaching. Not payed enough to deal with this stuff.

 

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