September 25, 2017, 05:11:31 PM


Author Topic: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn  (Read 1968 times)

Online kyndo

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 03:06:14 PM »
Also, while only 600-800 species of dinosaurs have been discovered, most scientists (who believe that the earth is more than 6000 years old) agree that there have been anywhere between 50,000 and 500,000 species of dinosaurs.


Hmm. Doesn't sound very scientific "we want to believe X so we'll all agree on it even though we have no evidence".


You need to learn to distinguish between empirical science (what has been observed and is testable) and human conjecture presented as science, sometimes referred to as "historical science" -being a subjective interpretation of what someone thinks happened in the past. Your above statement belongs to the latter.
I'm going to politely disagree with you. Applying models to bridge gaps in existing knowledge is the very soul of science.

Extrapolating a rough estimate the number of dinosaur species is actually based on relatively agreed-upon statistics (not-so-simple maths).

Number of species recorded = w
Probability of being fossilized = x
Probability of being uncovered = y
Probability of correct identification = z

Estimated total number of species = w/(xyz).

Obviously this is a huge simplification, and I'm sure there's substantial debate over the actual numbers, but that's the general equation.

A lot of what we know today is derived from applying statistics and theories to less-than-complete empirical observations.

For example, while many folk still argue about the validity of the theory of general relativity, your cellphone wouldn't work had people not spun huge webs of equations around principles that aren't yet 100% understood.
Critical information such as the CDCs response plans against plague and pandemics are derived from less-than-complete statistics, and incompletely understood behavioural models.

Just because our knowledge of something isn't 100% accurate doesn't mean that it's 100% invalid.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:13:10 PM by kyndo »

Offline JamSiManYo

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 03:12:20 PM »
Hmm. Doesn't sound very scientific

Your definition of scientific must be different. Science is also used make predictions based on empirical data. Sometimes those predictions are accurate.

If you've ever spoken to scientists or any sort of hard science expert, you'll quickly realize that the conversation becomes almost unbearable because they are constantly interjecting with caveats, digressions, and qualifying statements. You don't seem like someone rooted in science. Just merely doing some lazy google searches and then latching on to anything that confirms your bias.

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 03:54:38 PM »
Quote from: kyndo
  just because our knowledge of something isn't 100% accurate, doesn't mean its 100% invalid

 Dinosaurs are not fibbonacci numbers. You're engaging in unwarranted fantasy.

All of the fossil column has been explored, exhaustively, at numerous sites around the globe. The majority of orders and taxa of living animals are represented in the fosil record, and the geologic column also shows that essentially all phyla were present at the start. Vertebrate fish were present in the cambrian, for example. So we can be substantially sure that the record is largely complete.

Online kyndo

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 04:44:51 PM »
Quote from: kyndo
  just because our knowledge of something isn't 100% accurate, doesn't mean its 100% invalid

Dinosaurs are not fibbonacci numbers.
True... but... what's your point? They're not tomatoes either. Well, except for this one.

You're engaging in unwarranted fantasy.
Seeing as thousands -- if not hundreds of thousands -- of very respected archaeologists, biologist, and geographers are as well, I guess I'm in great company!

All of the fossil column has been explored, exhaustively, at numerous sites around the globe.
I majored in Geomorphology and have spent several hundred hours ruining my eyesight looking at fossilised diatoms. From this horrible, horrible, horrible experience, I can tell you that this is definitely not true. We require additional fossil columns!

The majority of orders and taxa of living animals are represented in the fossil record, and the geologic column also shows that essentially all phyla were present at the start.
Yes. Well... since the Cambrian Explosion, anyway. Most of them weren't around for the 3 billion years of evolution preceding that period.
Vertebrate fish were present in the cambrian, for example.
Yes.
So we can be substantially sure that the record is largely complete.
 No. We have records of a few here and there. Our fossil record is nowhere close to complete. Heck, of the estimated 4.5 million species of plants and animals today, only about 1.5 million species have been identified. How likely is it that we know more about what species existed 500 million years ago than we do about species alive today?
About 250,000 distinct fossil species have been identified from the last few billion years. That's only 1/18th the number of extant species. Are you implying that there's nearly 20 times more species alive today than have existed since life on this planet began?  :huh:
For your perusing pleasure, here's a decent (and short!) research article that goes over the shortcomings of our current fossil record.



Anyway, while you're busy not reading my reply, here's a tune you might like!


« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 04:56:42 PM by kyndo »

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 04:55:05 PM »
. I had a feeling this person was trolling but the post history suggested otherwise... Live and learn.

Why don't you just respond objectively to the facts?

Try to use logical thought processes.

Offline donovan

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 04:56:28 PM »
I'm no longer bothered by the derailment. Kyndo, I really appreciate your intellect~

Offline JamSiManYo

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2017, 05:21:32 PM »
. I had a feeling this person was trolling but the post history suggested otherwise... Live and learn.

Why don't you just respond objectively to the facts?

Try to use logical thought processes.

You haven't responded to mine.

Dammit. baited again.

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2017, 05:21:57 PM »
Quote from: kyndo
them weren't around for the 3 billion years of evolution preceding that period.[/color]

There you go again.. indulging in unwarranted fantasy. :laugh:

Your claim is conjecture. There is zero evidence that evolution took place at all, never mind your imaginary timelines.

Science is based on what can be observed and tested, not on your imagination.

Online kyndo

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2017, 05:51:28 PM »
Quote from: kyndo
they weren't around for the 3 billion years of evolution preceding that period.[/color]
There you go again.. indulging in unwarranted fantasy. :laugh:

Your claim is conjecture. There is zero evidence that evolution took place at all, never mind your imaginary timelines.

Science is based on what can be observed and tested, not on your imagination.
Did you at least give the tune a listen? The new Alice in Chains is definitely less heavy than they were in the 90's, but they still have some smokin' tracks!

Anyway, I remember reading this article some time back and it made me chuckle. I thought you might like to add it to your arsenal.  :smiley:

Devils, Dinosaurs, and Squirrel Fossils
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 05:57:18 PM by kyndo »

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2017, 06:15:28 PM »
Quote from: kyndo
they weren't around for the 3 billion years of evolution preceding that period.[/color]
There you go again.. indulging in unwarranted fantasy. :laugh:

Your claim is conjecture. There is zero evidence that evolution took place at all, never mind your imaginary timelines.

Science is based on what can be observed and tested, not on your imagination.
Did you at least give the tune a listen? The new Alice in Chains is definitely less heavy than they were in the 90's, but they still have some smokin' tracks!

Anyway, I remember reading this article some time back and it made me chuckle. I thought you might like to add it to your arsenal.  :smiley:

Devils, Dinosaurs, and Squirrel Fossils


ie you've got nothing. You lose.

Have fun inventing more fairy tales.  :laugh:

Online MaximusPrime

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2017, 06:19:05 PM »
Oh my, reading those articles hurts my brain. But they are kinda funny when you think about the logic used kinda refutes itself.

I wish I could have a mega-beaver as a pet...

Offline jddavis7

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2017, 06:22:58 PM »
Is the Great Barrier Reef dying or dead? I read that it was completely dead in passing, but that's only 1 source.

Online kyndo

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2017, 06:32:41 PM »
Quote from: kyndo
they weren't around for the 3 billion years of evolution preceding that period.[/color]
There you go again.. indulging in unwarranted fantasy. :laugh:

Your claim is conjecture. There is zero evidence that evolution took place at all, never mind your imaginary timelines.
I've got a few more minutes before they kick me out, so I guess I'll bite!

According to your earlier posts, you believe that the fossil record is complete.
There are no records of vertebrates of any kind (several phylum) before the Cambrian period.
Therefore, according to your own logic, they did not exist prior to that. Sooo... they were beamed down by alien space-ships? Spontaneously popped into existence? What?

    Anyway, you implicitly acknowledged this when you mentioned that fish appeared during the (imaginary?) Cambrian Era.

Science is based on what can be observed and tested, not on your imagination.
Have fun inventing fairy tales.  :laugh:
And hypothesised. A lot of it is based on imagination: what else would you call creativity?
And yeah, I love fairy tales. Very creative. Just like real science!

Oh, and I get that they're not everybody's cup o' tea, but Alice and Chains ain't nothing, man!  They certainly know something about Them Bones!   :laugh:
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 07:16:15 PM by kyndo »

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2017, 11:43:34 PM »
you believe that the fossil record is complete.

I said largely complete, not fully.

Already trying to distort what I said?

Scientists are now only rarely finding new fossil species, despite the fact we are now digging up more fossils than ever before. Think of a bell curve, X plotted against Y.

Maybe you want to claim there is some massive isolated deposit of new species somewhere. But that would be engaging in fantasy all over again now wouldn't it.

 
Quote
Therefore, according to your own logic, they did not exist prior to that.


No, thats your position.

Your position is that the cambrian represents a sudden explosion of lifeforms suddenly evolving into being from earlier simpler forms.


The fact is that these creatures appear abruptly, fully formed, without transitional antecedents or descendants, unchanged through all the successive strata they appear in,  in some cases identical to their descendants today. Thats called stasis. Its everywhere in the fossil record.

But being essentially unscientific, i'm sure you'll rush to ignore what the evidence clearly says while you make up imaginary claims which you then try to pass off as fact.

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2017, 11:51:36 PM »
Your definition of scientific must be different. Science is also used make predictions based on empirical data.

Empirical data reveals no change in lifeforms throughout the fossil record.

So that kind of observable data doesn't allow you to make up predictions *cough* fantasies to fill in the "gaps".

If you did, that would come under the fairy tale category, no matter how much you pretended it was real.

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2017, 01:23:55 AM »
pangolins, which have been “decimated”; and giraffes, whose four species now number under 100,000 members.
This is gut-wrenching. 


Why do you even care? because according to you it will all simply re-appear again anyway via evolution.  Keep waving that magic wand! 

Offline donovan

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2017, 02:21:54 AM »
pangolins, which have been “decimated”; and giraffes, whose four species now number under 100,000 members.
This is gut-wrenching. 


Why do you even care? because according to you it will all simply re-appear again anyway via evolution.  Keep waving that magic wand!

Hey, we finally got there in a roundabout way! (And thanks for inviting me back into he discussion.) Yeah, why do I care. My response to eggieguffer was only somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but thinking about multiple life-supporting planets and even Earth's ability to re-speciate after each successive mass extinction is comforting. Somehow it would feel less tragic to me if the Earth were to be hit by an asteroid tomorrow than if humans were the cause of catastrophic ecological damage. I guess I feel like we're not living up to our ideals, or even our potential, when we run so rough-shod over this planet. It's hope-depriving when we can't even say 'at least we tried'.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 06:56:28 AM by taeyang »

Offline taeyang

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2017, 06:56:54 AM »
religious discussion is not permitted on waygook.org.
use google to search the site

site:waygook.org XXXX

replace 'XXXX' with your search term

Offline insulimted

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2017, 11:09:39 AM »
religious discussion is not permitted on waygook.org.

The article that started this thread was by a man who has predicted the end more times than the watchtower society. And obviously he has been just as wrong. Just because you have the title 'scientist' does not mean that everything you do is science. If religious discussion is banned, then delete this whole thread. It was started by an apocalyptic preacher.

Offline Taal

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Re: Era of ‘Biological Annihilation’ Is Underway, Scientists Warn
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2017, 02:18:32 PM »
religious discussion is not permitted on waygook.org.

Evolutionism is a religion.

 

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