December 11, 2017, 08:25:19 AM

Author Topic: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs  (Read 4520 times)

Offline Aurata

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Re: "Blind hiring" no more pics
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 12:09:34 AM »
I don't think this will change anything. Employers will not suddenly have a change of heart. All this will do is make the hiring process longer and more complicated.


How about affirmative action? quota systems?


I'd love to see all these employers forced to hire older people, short people, overweight people, mixed race people.


A lot of korean employers/ managers are stupid because they eventually fall victim to the same prejudices that they inflict on everyone else.



« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 12:14:37 AM by Aurata »
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Pecan

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Re: "Blind hiring" no more pics
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 12:20:21 AM »
How about affirmative action? quota systems?


I'd love to see all these employers forced to hire older people, short people, overweight people, mixed race people.
I certainly hope you are being facetious.

AA was one of the worst things done to blacks in the past 30 years.

Overweight?

Oh, your just kidding...hard to read humor sometimes.

Offline Aurata

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Re: "Blind hiring" no more pics
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 01:06:51 AM »
How about affirmative action? quota systems?


I'd love to see all these employers forced to hire older people, short people, overweight people, mixed race people.
I certainly hope you are being facetious.

AA was one of the worst things done to blacks in the past 30 years.

Overweight?

Oh, your just kidding...hard to read humor sometimes.

Look....a workplace should reflect the natural range of people types that make up society.


This is especially true in the context of a school. When you staff a school with only blonde white americans you really are not preparing your students for the reality of relating to the world at large, you're pandering to and reinforcing discrimination.
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Pecan

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Re: "Blind hiring" no more pics
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 08:15:59 AM »
....a workplace should reflect the natural range of people types that make up society.

Sorry, you were being serious.

Why do  you think "a workplace" should reflect "the natural range of people types" in a society?

That is beyond ridiculous.

If you believe that, then you need to start from the womb, implement that in elementary, middle, high school, etc. or you won't be able to meet your quota abruptly in adulthood.

I take it you don't believe in things like aptitude, ability, preference, etc.?

You have to be fishing, no?

Smokers?  Fat people?  They make those choices for themselves.

I'm not going to hire a criminal, just because criminals make up the "natural range of people" in society.

Where the heck did you go to school to believe such garbage?

I'd ask for a refund.

Online gogators!

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Re: "Blind hiring" no more pics
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 08:43:50 AM »
How about affirmative action? quota systems?


I'd love to see all these employers forced to hire older people, short people, overweight people, mixed race people.
I certainly hope you are being facetious.

AA was one of the worst things done to blacks in the past 30 years.

Overweight?

Oh, your just kidding...hard to read humor sometimes.
Here's more funny stuff:
Quote
Affirmative action refers to a set of policies and programs in the US
under  which  employers,  universities,  and  government  agencies  take 
positive steps beyond nondiscrimination to improve the labor market status  of  minorities  and  women.  In  this  paper  I  review  the  research  evidence  regarding  its  effects  on  employment  and  university  admissions.  Overall,  affirmative  action  redistributes  jobs  and  student  slots  towards  minorities  and  females,  though  these  effects  are  not  very 
large.  Minorities  who  benefit  from affirmative  action  often  have  weaker credentials, but there is fairly little solid evidence that their labor market performance
is weaker. While minority students admitted to universities  under  affirmative  action  have  weaker  grades  and  higher  dropout  rates  than  their  white  counterparts,  both  their  graduation  rates  and  later  salaries  seem  to  rise as  a  result  of  these  policies.  Af-firmative action clearly generates positive externalities for the minority and low-income communities (in terms of better medical services and labor market contacts), and perhaps for employers and universities as well. But the future of affirmative action in the US will largely depend on political and legal factors that are hard to predict.   

Offline defenderoftherealm

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 01:01:10 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.

Also, blood type shouldn't be asked at the interview stage of applying for a job but once you get the job I think you should have to disclose blood type in case of a work place accident.  All of that AB+ people is predisposed to kicking small black puppies, B+ people might smoke some bath salts and become zombies, etc is stupid.

Offline Pecan

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2017, 01:11:56 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?

Offline kriztee

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2017, 01:22:20 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?
This might be to stop people from being able to cheat their way through a prestigious university and land a job over someone who actually worked and got good grades at a smaller university. From what I've heard, cheating and paying your way through big universities is a problem here so I assume this is to make the problem less. But I agree it blows for people who did well and actually studied hard to get into a good university if all that's shown is the degree name.

Does anyone else think the university name is a bit extreme tho? I always had to put  where i went to high school and uni/college on my resumes/job applications back in Canada :/

Offline pkjh

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2017, 01:28:23 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?
This might be to stop people from being able to cheat their way through a prestigious university and land a job over someone who actually worked and got good grades at a smaller university. From what I've heard, cheating and paying your way through big universities is a problem here so I assume this is to make the problem less. But I agree it blows for people who did well and actually studied hard to get into a good university if all that's shown is the degree name.

Does anyone else think the university name is a bit extreme tho? I always had to put  where i went to high school and uni/college on my resumes/job applications back in Canada :/
One of the major reasons the big corporations actually make candidates take an exam. Koreans believe it's one of the big equalizers to prevent the rich candidates from getting jobs they may have 'cheated' to get get into.

As for the name of universities. It does happen in the west too. Just imagine if you saw a guy with Harvard on his resume. You'd probably at least want to interview they guy. It's the interview that really matters in North America, to see if you'll 'fit' into the corporate culture.

Offline SaintsCanada

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2017, 01:41:57 PM »
Pecan, the reason for the university thing isn't quality of education. It's because in Korea unfair favouritism towards alma maters is of epidemic proportions. It even effects how sports managers choose their players.

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2017, 01:51:52 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?
This might be to stop people from being able to cheat their way through a prestigious university and land a job over someone who actually worked and got good grades at a smaller university. From what I've heard, cheating and paying your way through big universities is a problem here so I assume this is to make the problem less. But I agree it blows for people who did well and actually studied hard to get into a good university if all that's shown is the degree name.

Does anyone else think the university name is a bit extreme tho? I always had to put  where i went to high school and uni/college on my resumes/job applications back in Canada :/
One of the major reasons the big corporations actually make candidates take an exam. Koreans believe it's one of the big equalizers to prevent the rich candidates from getting jobs they may have 'cheated' to get get into.

As for the name of universities. It does happen in the west too. Just imagine if you saw a guy with Harvard on his resume. You'd probably at least want to interview they guy. It's the interview that really matters in North America, to see if you'll 'fit' into the corporate culture.
In the US, after your first job, your university matters less and less. What you've accomplished comes to the fore. It can still help but you've got to have the goods.

Not so in Korea. For example, when I worked at Samsung almost everyone there had graduated from Korea, Yonsei and Ehwa universities. They didn't like SNU types.

And rather than be concerned with GPAs, which are highly inflated in SK, they looked at their extracurricular activities. They wanted people who were good at socializing so they could take orders and work in teams.

The exams that the chaebols give applicants (and pay them to take) are for real because they know what a Korea university diploma is really worth. In fact, they've complained for years about how much they have to spend on training new employees because the universities do such a poor job of that.

As for field of study, the companies put you wherever they need you and think you fit best. An employee's major often has little or nothing to do with the job they get.

Offline kriztee

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2017, 02:00:24 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?
This might be to stop people from being able to cheat their way through a prestigious university and land a job over someone who actually worked and got good grades at a smaller university. From what I've heard, cheating and paying your way through big universities is a problem here so I assume this is to make the problem less. But I agree it blows for people who did well and actually studied hard to get into a good university if all that's shown is the degree name.

Does anyone else think the university name is a bit extreme tho? I always had to put  where i went to high school and uni/college on my resumes/job applications back in Canada :/
One of the major reasons the big corporations actually make candidates take an exam. Koreans believe it's one of the big equalizers to prevent the rich candidates from getting jobs they may have 'cheated' to get get into.

As for the name of universities. It does happen in the west too. Just imagine if you saw a guy with Harvard on his resume. You'd probably at least want to interview they guy. It's the interview that really matters in North America, to see if you'll 'fit' into the corporate culture.
In the US, after your first job, your university matters less and less. What you've accomplished comes to the fore. It can still help but you've got to have the goods.

Not so in Korea. For example, when I worked at Samsung almost everyone there had graduated from Korea, Yonsei and Ehwa universities. They didn't like SNU types.

And rather than be concerned with GPAs, which are highly inflated in SK, they looked at their extracurricular activities. They wanted people who were good at socializing so they could take orders and work in teams.

The exams that the chaebols give applicants (and pay them to take) are for real because they know what a Korea university diploma is really worth. In fact, they've complained for years about how much they have to spend on training new employees because the universities do such a poor job of that.

As for field of study, the companies put you wherever they need you and think you fit best. An employee's major often has little or nothing to do with the job they get.
Yeah fair enough. The name does also to count for something in the West too, just not as much. It just seems extreme to go from super invasive questions to asking less than a western application :P Still good on their part for taking steps to stop lame hiring practices. Maybe there won't be immediate widespread view changes but the following generations most likely won't be so disgruntled.

Offline pkjh

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2017, 02:01:41 PM »
Pecan, the reason for the university thing isn't quality of education. It's because in Korea unfair favouritism towards alma maters is of epidemic proportions. It even effects how sports managers choose their players.
The Ahn Hyun-su (Viktor Ahn) is a classic case. Basically the short track head honcho didn't like him, so kept him off the team. The athletes were pro/anti Ahn, very tense. However, the Russians, and Americans, were actively trying to recruit him. I think he ended up with 2 golds, a silver, and a bronze at the 2014 Olympics.

Any rational skating federation would have made a special spot for him to compete at an Olympics considering his skills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Ahn#Moving_to_Russia
http://www.businessinsider.com/viktor-ahn-russia-2014-2


Also, Cha Bum-keun was frustrated with the politics to get younger players on the Korean National Soccer team. Generally it was the rule young players had to wait for older players to move out of the way. Even if this young player was obviously a superior player. Hence, the reason, imo, it's better going with a foreign coach, who won't be as bogged down with all the historic politics...

Don't get me wrong, politics happen in the west too were certain players are kept off a team because someone doesn't like the. But you usually have equivalently talented players to make up for it. But in Asia, they'll ignore the only talent to the detriment of their team, because someone is older, or is from the same province as whoever.

Offline Epistemology

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2017, 02:06:23 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?
This might be to stop people from being able to cheat their way through a prestigious university and land a job over someone who actually worked and got good grades at a smaller university. From what I've heard, cheating and paying your way through big universities is a problem here so I assume this is to make the problem less. But I agree it blows for people who did well and actually studied hard to get into a good university if all that's shown is the degree name.

Does anyone else think the university name is a bit extreme tho? I always had to put  where i went to high school and uni/college on my resumes/job applications back in Canada :/
One of the major reasons the big corporations actually make candidates take an exam. Koreans believe it's one of the big equalizers to prevent the rich candidates from getting jobs they may have 'cheated' to get get into.

As for the name of universities. It does happen in the west too. Just imagine if you saw a guy with Harvard on his resume. You'd probably at least want to interview they guy. It's the interview that really matters in North America, to see if you'll 'fit' into the corporate culture.

But its really not though, because said rich students can buy their way into passing the test through using the most prestigious and most expensive hagwons, while the "riff raff" have to make do with self study and  lower tier hagwons. That dumb belief in multiple choice testing is what screws them over so badly in the first place. Insanity is doing the same thing multiple times and expecting different results, I think its fair to say that this is insanity given how often testing+hagwons give the rich such a massive leg up in every aspect of society
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.

Offline Pecan

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2017, 02:20:17 PM »
Twilight Zone...

Offline pkjh

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2017, 02:32:47 PM »
But its really not though, because said rich students can buy their way into passing the test through using the most prestigious and most expensive hagwons, while the "riff raff" have to make do with self study and  lower tier hagwons. That dumb belief in multiple choice testing is what screws them over so badly in the first place. Insanity is doing the same thing multiple times and expecting different results, I think its fair to say that this is insanity given how often testing+hagwons give the rich such a massive leg up in every aspect of society
Just because they go to a hagwon, doesn't means they'll pass the test.

Anyways, what other method do you suggest. Interviews are out, since they will favor the rich. Testing favors ones who do go to hagwons, so that's out. Maybe leave it to true chance, and just randomly selecting the open spot, like some kind of lottery?

Offline Epistemology

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2017, 03:06:18 PM »
But its really not though, because said rich students can buy their way into passing the test through using the most prestigious and most expensive hagwons, while the "riff raff" have to make do with self study and  lower tier hagwons. That dumb belief in multiple choice testing is what screws them over so badly in the first place. Insanity is doing the same thing multiple times and expecting different results, I think its fair to say that this is insanity given how often testing+hagwons give the rich such a massive leg up in every aspect of society
Just because they go to a hagwon, doesn't means they'll pass the test.

Anyways, what other method do you suggest. Interviews are out, since they will favor the rich. Testing favors ones who do go to hagwons, so that's out. Maybe leave it to true chance, and just randomly selecting the open spot, like some kind of lottery?

When they're going to top tier hagwons that are teaching to the test, as almost all hagwons here do in one form or another, they will have a *significant* advantage over those that lack the financial resources to do that. While it doesn't mean that they will pass the test, it fuels an arms race between the test makers and the elite hagwons, leaving those that don't have the money for it further behind in the dust every testing season. The end result is exactly the same as the interview, except this time you've just put everyone trying to get in under financial duress for no visible gains. Its the seuneung all over again.

Most other countries in the world rely on interviews. Perhaps a rubric should be devised and candidates judged by a panel rather than the boss/HR manager and his own "feels" as is so often the case in this country (I have my own experience of it while interviewing candidates for a teaching position - overruled by the English department supervisor who picked a candidate based on looks rather than experience).

At least with a rubric in place and some records kept, interview results can be audited if the moonites think there is a discrepancy in the hiring system of a company
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:11:27 PM by Epistemology »
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.

Offline defenderoftherealm

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2017, 03:09:07 PM »
Blind hiring is a step in the right direction.  My only question is how will a job be able to verify credentials in regards to education.  Education is important when looking at job applicants.  I somewhat agree that the name of a school shouldn't get you a job, but the actual field in which one studied is very important.
Do you honestly believe that universities are all created equal?

Doesn't quality of education account for anything?

Why care about "field of study", if you don't care if they actually learned anything or not?

Of course I don't believe all universities are created equally.  Less emphasis should be placed on brand names though.  Education experience, work experience, skill sets etc should all be assessed in a manner that allows for the best overall candidate to get the job.

Offline Pecan

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2017, 03:18:12 PM »
Of course I don't believe all universities are created equally.  Less emphasis should be placed on brand names though.  Education experience, work experience, skill sets etc should all be assessed in a manner that allows for the best overall candidate to get the job.
Well, now you are just being funny and inconsistent.

"The best overall candidate" is PRECISELY what I am advocating!  Not AA or some "blind hiring" process, that seeks to create some abnormal and distorted reality.

Employers should have complete freedom to hire who they consider to be "the best overall candidate",  which could be anything.

You are either for it or against it.

How can you be both :)

Perhaps, you are a little confused...

Offline Cyanea

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Re: Korea begins 'blind hiring' for all public jobs
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2017, 01:30:03 PM »
They should extend the practice to the entire educational sector.


What is the point of getting qualifications and trying to be better at your job if hiring is based solely on gender, looks and age?



Catch my drift?