September 25, 2017, 08:02:07 AM


Author Topic: Marijuana increases risk of schizophrenia, psychosis and heart attacks  (Read 2021 times)

Offline Life Improvement

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John Mayer is using marijuana to fill a void in his life.

“I put it where drinking used to go,” Mayer, 39, revealed in Rolling Stone’s July issue. “The quality of life has gone up considerably. Drinking is a f*cking con. It always felt wrong."

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/books-magazines/magazines/why-john-mayer-replaced-booze-with-weed/news-story/14356ae6ba3118d2f1ce7da2c3ba70c4

Offline Rumbledy Hump

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basic science:

correlation does not equal causation.

be aware of how studies are funded

 :rolleyes:

You guys are just parroting popular culture. Stop getting your scientific opinions from the bar.


Medical experts disagree.

 :huh: First, correlation vs. causation is an essential concept for any critical thinkers. Just because two events happen in relation to one another does not mean that there is a relationship of cause and effect. For instance, ice cream consumption and drowning deaths in the United States are related. Does this mean that eating choco tacos could cause you to drown? No, because mere correlation does not imply causation. In this case other variables (like it being freakin hot outside) account for the relationship.

Your belief that heavy marijuana use led to your peers hospitalization suffers from the same logical fallacy. But don't take my word for it - read what medical experts have to say in this 2016 review of scientific literature about the adverse effects of marijuana use:

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"Regular marijuana use is associated with an increased risk of anxiety and depression, but causality has not been established."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

To be clear, there is a relationship between marijuana use and the onset of psychotic disorders. But you should not believe that marijuana use causes these disorders. Again, the experts:

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"However, it is inherently difficult to establish causality in these types of studies because factors other than marijuana use may be directly associated with the risk of mental illness. In addition, other factors could predispose a person to both marijuana use and mental illness. This makes it difficult to confidently attribute the increased risk of mental illness to marijuana use."

ibid

Now this research article does a good job of summarizing what medical experts have found about the impacts of marijuana use, and there are many negative side effects. Check out this handy table to summarize the level of confidence in associations between marijuana and specific adverse effects. Note that these confidence levels pertain to users who 1. started early and 2. use often for sustained periods of time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/table/T2/

The greater question brought up by the OP is whether marijuana should be legalized. I think it should be. These side effects are comparable to alcohol and it's generally accepted that people have a right to choose for themselves whether to consume that. Further, if marijuana is legalized then there will be more opportunities to educate the public on the side effects.

Anecdotally, I'm a former regular user who has lived in a legal marijuana state, and I much prefer to take it in pill form where the effects are milder and there is less of a peak and crash. My use did not interfere with my work or personal life, and I found it to have a net positive impact on my life. I do not regularly use now because I cannot get it legally nor in pill form.

I will say that I know many users who are in denial about the negative side effects. I know people who are addicted to it. I know people who may be better off without it, or at least without using it so much. I would like people on both sides of the debate in to take a more balanced view of marijuana use.

TL:DR https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/, lazy.

P.S. Please take the time to look up authoritative sources. Newspaper articles and wikipedia are not authoritative.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 01:00:20 PM by Rumbledy Hump »
But how do I know what to lick and what not to lick?

Offline Ptolemy

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^ My own unscientific observation is that people who are already going down the path mental illness, get into pot to "escape" or "cure" their illness, and then they continue to get worse with pot contributing to the deterioration in their thinking (of course the person doesn't realize this, always talking about how pot has "helped them so much" even though they are clearly falling into insanity). And I think pot use by these mentally-deteriorating types has increased in US now that it legal, not good. Pot use by perfectly healthy people, is probably fine, but that's only like 5% of the US population!

All the chit chat about science is pointless because science is corrupt as hell, we have to use some common sense and unscientific personal observations, and make reasonable guesses.

Offline Rumbledy Hump

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All the chit chat about science is pointless because science is corrupt as hell, we have to use some common sense and unscientific personal observations, and make reasonable guesses.

No. Your opinions and thinking on medical topics are not as valid as an expert's. Institutional science certainly has flaws, but that is not grounds to dismiss all scientific opinion out of hand.
But how do I know what to lick and what not to lick?

Offline hippo

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there's also the issue of whether the question or whether the penalties are worse that any alleged negative impact(s)

science is an essential tool.  helps questions even everyday coomon exceptions.  it should not be dismissed so easily

there were a lot of postive studies of LSD in the 50s and early 60s.  Why do you think they stopped?  it seems like the quest for scientific inquiry stopped when the substance became associated with "undesirable " groups?

also, if you want to study something already regarded as bad, you have to base your study on finding negative things if you want to get funding.

Offline Aurata

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Quote from: hippo
there were a lot of postive studies of LSD in the 50s and early 60s.  it seems like the quest for scientific inquiry stopped when the substance became associated with "undesirable " groups?

All you're demonstrating is that the "science" we hear changes and varies according to human bias.

Science has become another propaganda tool in the hands of the elites.

They control academia, they control funding, they control the conclusions. As with the mass media, they control the explanations given to the masses, they mould popular culture and public opinion.

Quote
there were a lot of postive studies of LSD


lol you're trying to argue that LSD is healthy for you?

Ignoring scientific study completely, I'm sure you could find several users who would give you first-hand accounts of delusions, hallucinations, flashbacks, injurious accidents caused by impaired depth perceptions etc.




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Offline Life Improvement

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“Taking LSD was a profound experience, one of the most important things in my life. LSD shows you that there’s another side to the coin, and you can’t remember it when it wears off, but you know it. It reinforced my sense of what was important—creating great things instead of making money, putting things back into the stream of history and of human consciousness as much as I could.” -Steve Jobs

Offline Life Improvement

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"Doing LSD was one of the two or three most important things I have done in my life." -Steve Jobs https://www.thefix.com/content/steve-jobs-think-different-and-lsd-9143

Offline Aurata

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Taking LSD was a profound experience

...and many people commit suicide while on a bad trip.


Would you advise your kids to take Lsd?
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Life Improvement

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People commit suicide on a bad trip? How common is that? Sounds like a 'reefer madness' story.

I don't have kids. You do?

People I admire- intellectual giants Sam Harris, Robert Greene, Joe Rogan- spoke positively of psychedelics. 

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/khaliya-mental-health

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"The psychedelic drug LSD can help people with alcoholism quit or cut back their drinking, according to a new analysis of data originally collected in the 1960s."

http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/09/lsd-may-help-treat-alcoholism/


Offline Aurata

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I don't have kids.

If you had kids, would you give them LSD?

Quote from: Ptolemy
we have to use some common sense

life improvement is raising a family on LSD.
Imagine your Korea...

Offline Life Improvement

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Best for people to wait until adulthood as their brains are still developing when young. 21 seems like a good age to start.

Offline Loki88

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Best for people to wait until adulthood as their brains are still developing when young. 21 seems like a good age to start.

Yeah, this. Controlled substance the same as booze. No point amplifying the damage done. People are gonna do it might as well make some taxes.

My only other two thoughts are that;

1. Smoking correlates with cancer and definitely causes asthma and a host of other breathing problems. We've spent the last two decades beating down smoking as a means of increasing health amongst the general public. It seems weird to just throw in something that can cause exactly the same problems plus a few more.

2. Given the way in which weed decreases social and mental function I think it would be reasonable to fire someone for showing up and or smoking it at or during work hours in much the same way you would someone drinking on the job both of which are quite a bit different than smoking.

Offline grey

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For those who want to partake, but not get the smoke can use a vapourizer or in the form of food or drink. I have a friend who prefers to vapourize vs smoke because of the reduction of health concerns.

I understand the appeal of tradition, much like caffeine pills are not especially popular.

My friend is neither black, nor white, for those keeping score at home.
Ko fills half his luggage with instant noodles for his international business travels, a lesson he learned after assuming on his first trip that three packages would suffice for six days. “Man, was I wrong. Since then, I always make sure I pack enough.”
-AP

Offline Aurata

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I don't have kids.

People I admire- intellectual giants Sam Harris, Robert Greene, Joe Rogan- spoke positively of psychedelics. 

If you had kids, would you give them LSD?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 01:49:24 AM by Aurata »
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Offline Arabin

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I don't have kids.

People I admire- intellectual giants Sam Harris, Robert Greene, Joe Rogan- spoke positively of psychedelics. 

If you had kids, would you give them LSD?

Is that what happened? Would explain a lot.

Offline Dave Stepz

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lol you're trying to argue that LSD is healthy for you?

Ignoring scientific study completely, I'm sure you could find several users who would give you first-hand accounts of delusions, hallucinations, flashbacks, injurious accidents caused by impaired depth perceptions etc.

Jessie H Christie!

You know who make the best drugs counsellors?  Former users.  People who have experience of the effects and after effects of drugs.  They wouldn't write nonsense like you.  They have an understanding about the effects of drugs, both positively and negatively.  Flashbacks?  Do you even know what a flashback feels like?  I doubt it, so why bother writing a completely nonsensical post.  Impaired depth perception.  Heheheh!!  Oh, please!  What skim reading did you do to get that?

If you had kids, would you give them LSD?


How the eff you arrived at this load of poop, is beyond me.  You mean literally giving LSD to your children?  You know that parents can understand and empathise with their kids enough to realise that at some point they may do drugs.  How they react to it is really important.  There are circumstances where parents go ballistic and boot their kids out for doing drugs, possibly leading onto a downward slope.  Then you get the parents who are ok with their kids doing drugs as they know 'it's just a phase' and 'part of being young'   and they'll grow out of it.  Then you get the parents who don't want their kids to be criminalised for doing drugs so allow them a safe place to do it, so as they're not out on the streets.  If you're a parent who has your child's best interests at heart, you will try and make the usage as safe as possible.  I would hazard a guess that the first example of parenting is far more dangerous than the second and third examples I gave.  You show respect to get it back.  Is that really hard to understand?  Probably.


When I was 17 years old, I had a friend whose mum was a former caner and she used to get hold of pot for him so she knew what he was getting.  She didn't want him hanging around areas tyring to score.  She was a nurse, and she knew the effects and she wanted to make it as safe as possible for him.  So smart! 


Offline Mr.DeMartino

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I don't know who is more stupid- the anti drug crowd or the "Your life is empty if you haven't tried it maaan" crowd.

Offline kyndo

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I don't have kids.

People I admire- intellectual giants Sam Harris, Robert Greene, Joe Rogan- spoke positively of psychedelics. 

If you had kids, would you give them LSD?
No.

I wouldn't give them tobacco or alcohol either.
Ideally, I would prefer my kids to to not use any kind of mind / mood altering substances.

But if I had to pick one of those vices, I'd go with pot. It has the fewest proven negative effects: it is the only of the three that is not physically addictive, the only not proven to destroy various organs, the only of the three impossible to OD on etc.


Anyway, I agree with Mr.DeMartino: most people are dumb.
I don't know who is more stupid- the anti drug crowd or the "Your life is empty if you haven't tried it maaan" crowd.
:smiley:

Offline Dave Stepz

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I don't know who is more stupid- the anti drug crowd or the "Your life is empty if you haven't tried it maaan" crowd.

I don't know who is more stupid - the ones who only see only the 'black' or the 'white' in every situation. 

 

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