April 23, 2017, 07:06:12 PM


Author Topic: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order  (Read 1197 times)

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2017, 06:48:14 PM »
Corporations don't control government ... although with a Trump presidency they will have increasingly favorable legislation. Why does America have some of the cleanest air in the world for any wealthy country? Because of regulations. Hopefully the bad and ignorant Trump wouldn't result in air too much dirtier than before.

Yes and no. The thing is that the influence of corporations is balanced by the influence of other corporations as well as large groups like say, a union or the AARP.

But if corporations had no control, then we wouldn't have Citizens United. For goodness sakes all major political candidates including your precious Hillary Clinton, with a few exceptions, get the overwhelming majority of their campaign money from corporations and wealthy donors. Do you think they aren't beholden to them? How naive can you get?

If you are wondering why food prices are so high in Korea it's because of "Korea first" policies.

Globablism rewards specialization. Which benefits everyone overall. Trade wars and tarrifs are terrible. Study economics and you'll see what I mean.

You do realize economics is pseudoscience, right? Of course that doesn't make it useless as there are some general principles which are true. Now as far as globalization rewarding specialization, the problem with this is that the rewards are not evenly distributed. An individual American is not a perfect 1/300 millionth of the U.S. population and the benefits are not distributed as such, thus globalization does NOT benefit everyone overall if the costs to say 200 million are very catastrophic and the benefits to say, 1 million, are meteoric with everyone else in between and it being a marginal net positive overall. The "benefit" to society is usually some increase in say, GDP or purchasing power or standard of living, based off of some inexact survey, which is then divided by the number of people in the country.

A first year high school statistics student can notice the potential faults in such an assessment of it being an overall "benefit". 

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2017, 07:43:45 PM »
If corporations were really able to influence government as much as you claim then New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, etc. would have filthy air.

Why are you on the air tangent? The US barely even manufactures anything?? Corporations maximized profits by sending all those jobs to China!

Wrong again.

Think nothing is made in America? Output has doubled in three decades

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Surprising Fact No. 1: Manufacturing is the largest and most dynamic sector of the U.S. economy.

Surprising Fact No. 2: Manufacturing output is a near a record high.

Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2017, 08:01:02 PM »
Hehe, dood...you always go raging off on tangents.

Large corporations dominate all major industries: the media, technology, military industrial, big pharma, consumer (food, Nike, etc), finance (aka wall street), etc.

These control the USG to a large degree. Sure there are a few regulations on corporations, but mostly they just ignore. When has the USG ever done ANYTHING of any consequence to corporate profits? Never, they are enablers.

Online Aurata

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 01:58:50 AM »
If corporations were really able to influence government as much as you claim then New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, etc. would have filthy air.

Why are you on the air tangent? The US barely even manufactures anything?? Corporations maximized profits by sending all those jobs to China!


US corporations couldn't emit pollution if they tried. That would require factories.
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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 08:06:46 AM »
Technology and new ways of organizing work have revolutionized the American factory. Today, U.S. factories produce twice as much stuff as they did in 1984, but with one-third fewer workers.

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 08:21:56 AM »
Now as far as globalization rewarding specialization, the problem with this is that the rewards are not evenly distributed.

But a rising tide lifts all boats, generally speaking. I meant if a region specializes in one thing they can get really good at it through practice. Also, competition drives progress. (And protectionism interferes with the 'invisible hand' of the free market. People should do what they're good at. What they're talented at. What their location will help them do. And if that location isn't advantageous, move.

The only thing I dislike about globalization is air pollution and other pollution. Hopefully governments can keep that in check. Actually more agreement between countries- globalization- would help accomplish that. We need something resembling a one world government. (Oh noes, a NWO!!1@_@)

Offline eastreef

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 01:20:19 PM »
First, I am not against countries trading and having agreements, but I have now turned against the idea of taking away control from the individual country and giving it to the multi-nationals.  I use to be a free trader and I actually believed the mantra that was pushed in the U.S. which said that it was alright for the U.S. to give up our industrial base because everyone can work in the service industry.  I even got a Master’s Degree in International management and worked in mid-town Manhattan for a while; however, now I believe in fair trade.  For me fair trade means we will treat you the way you treat US, and we will do what is fair for our people.  To me globalization means that there are no borders or restrictions regarding the movement of goods, jobs and finances. 

What has been happening with these trade agreements – I’m glad Trump pulled out of the TPP – is that they are being written to give the “decision” power regarding the movement of jobs, goods and financials to the multi-nationals.  Furthermore, these multi-nationals have no loyalty to countries or people: their loyalty is to the money, and all their decisions are based strictly on maximizing their profits. 

To meet safety (OSHA) regulations, health regulations, fire codes, air quality rules, pay into workman’s compensation programs, unemployment insurance…….costs a business money.  Basically, the business can: (1) choose to meet these requirements and pay these extra costs, and then reduce expenses in the areas where they do have control, such as cutting salaries and benefits, or reducing the size of the workforce (maybe through automation); (2) they can move the business to a country that does not have/enforce these requirements; or (3) they can close down. 

There are other reasons why I changed my mind that I could talk about, such as non-tariff barriers to trade that countries like Japan and Korea are skilled at using against foreign goods.  Such countries can sign trade agreements knowing that they have certain “cultural” practices in place regarding activities like wholesaling and distribution that will help to reduce consumption of foreign goods in their countries. But, now I’ll mainly focus on one of my biggest complaint, and that complaint is that the globalist approach means that many people must lower their standard of living.  For example, in the links below you can read about what happened when in May 2015 the World Trade Organization ruled that a U.S. law requiring country of origin labeling on beef and pork imports violated trade agreements.  I’m sure the WTO had the interest of the American consumer in mind when it made this ruling……

I like clean water, air and food, but I also know that regulations cost money.  You need a balance, and it should be up to the people of their own country to decide what this balance will be in their country without the threat of losing their jobs and/or lifestyle.  But, when a company in Country A can move its operation to Country B which does not have these kind of regulations, or has regulations for appearances but does not enforce them, how do the workers maintain their standard of living in Country A?  If a multi-national later decides that Country B is now getting too tough with regulations the multi-national packs up and moves to Country C.  Then there is the whole topic of taxes where Country D can offer companies the option of keeping their money in Country D and pay no/low taxes, and then multi-nationals don’t bring their money back to the U.S.

The globalists will say that they are raising the quality of life in other countries, but why should it be the responsibility of an American worker to lower their quality of life to help someone in another country?  People worked hard and sacrificed a lot to build the middle class that the U.S. developed after WW II.

The U.S. has trade agreements with twenty countries.  Can anyone list the trade agreements that the U.S. has signed where the balance of trade turned favorable for the U.S. after the U.S. signed the agreement?  From what I can find the only countries/area that the U.S. runs trade surpluses with are Hong Kong (Not China), Netherlands, United Arab Emirates and Australia.  And, that the countries that the U.S. runs the largest deficits with are China, Japan, Germany and Mexico.

Finally, many U.S. politicians like these trade agreements – besides for the bribes lobbying/campaign money they get but also because it makes their jobs easier.  Instead of having to work hard to develop compromises on regulations and their impacts on business, along with working hard to ensure the U.S. maintains a strong middle class, they can tell Americans that the economy is strong because they can buy lots of cheap goods from other countries (I actually believe that 40-50% of what Americans buy these days is not needed to live a quality middle class life).  Further, the politicians can say that being able to stand in line on Thanksgiving evening and push and shove each other to buy some cheap goods means that life in America is on the right track.

End of my rant.   


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Trade Links:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements

https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264

http://thehill.com/regulation/242385-wto-rules-against-us-appeal-to-keep-country-of-origin-labeling-rule

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/21/quashing-consumers-right-to-know-congress-repeals-country-of-origin-labeling-for-beef-and-pork/#20fbd2cd36e5                 
 
“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 05:22:01 PM »
But a rising tide lifts all boats, generally speaking.

I see no evidence for that maritime proverb 1) being applicable to economics and living conditions, and 2) that the sentiment it promotes is true in human society and economic distribution. In fact for every instance of broad improvements in standards of living you have just as many examples where the benefits are concentrated in the hands of a wealthy few.

One sentence mottos are not the basis of economics and taking care of your citizens.

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I meant if a region specializes in one thing they can get really good at it through practice.

You're basically assuming laboratory conditions in what is a complex and chaotic world. And specialization doesn't always result in improved standards of living for everyone, whether that is in oil countries, diamond mines, or countries that put all their money into tulips.

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Also, competition drives progress. (And protectionism interferes with the 'invisible hand' of the free market. People should do what they're good at. What they're talented at. What their location will help them do. And if that location isn't advantageous, move.

Again, theory vs. practice. If there are sudden and catastrophic shocks because of certain changes (i.e. NAFTA) the people are unable to respond. People's skills and lives are not a spreadsheet of data that transfers from one column to another.

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We need something resembling a one world government. (Oh noes, a NWO!!1@_@)

This is Utopian thinking. We need a one-world government when the people of the world, across all its regions and cultures, recognize the need for one and desire that their elected leaders meet to form one.

A one-world government, at present, is no more insightful or well-intentioned or capable than any other scheme we might consider. It is doubtful that such an institution would be accountable to the people and capable of governing responsibly.

Everything you're talking about is theory, abstraction, and idealism that fails to account for the real world and how things work.

Online Aurata

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 06:31:22 PM »

Quote from: lifeimprovement
We need something resembling a one world government.

This is Utopian thinking. We need a one-world government when the people of the world, across all its regions and cultures, recognize the need for one and desire that their elected leaders meet to form one.

He didn't just say that did he? I can see his eyes glazing over

A one world government. *shiver*

poor, poor, misled dupe of the elites.

History shows that different nations with their own sovereignty and identities act as checks and balances on eachothers worst excesses.

We all know human nature is not that great: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. This has always been true, every every time. Hitler was stopped because there existed around him different nations with borders who didn't agree with what was happening. Lifeimprovement is in effect saying that it'd be better if all the world was under one hitler, with no chance of escape.

Globalism is a euphemism. All it means in practice is American hegemony: domination of many by one.
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Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 07:53:46 PM »
We need something resembling a one world government.

Just logged onto the internet and got shocked!!!  :huh:

Cmon, this guy has to be the most brilliant troller (even beyond me). Impressed.

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 11:18:22 PM »
Cmon, this guy has to be the most brilliant troller (even beyond me).

So you are admitting to being a troll?

I'm not one and I say that with sincerity.

What I type is what I sincerely believe.

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 11:20:38 PM »
Globalism is a euphemism. All it means in practice is American hegemony: domination of many by one.

And who would that one be? The man you love Donald Trump? Fortunately there are checks and balances, so no.

Online Aurata

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 11:54:56 PM »
Globalism is a euphemism. All it means in practice is American hegemony: domination of many by one.

And who would that one be? The man you love Donald Trump? Fortunately there are checks and balances, so no.

Trump is now sadly a puppet of the deep state, a figurehead. So no, not him. A handful of Washington elites and billionaires. The guys who own the multinationals, the guys who get all the defense contracts and own the media. Them and whichever high priest heads their crazy secret societies where they plot world domination and their planned new world order.

By the way you really shouldn't get an ego boost from the concept of American domination. Their plans for you or your kids don't include being on the board of directors. More likely your or your descendants future is as a chipped worker bee whose whereabouts will be known at all times while your movements are controlled and they decide whether you get to reproduce or not.





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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #33 on: Today at 12:20:26 AM »
Lifeimprovement is in effect saying that it'd be better if all the world was under one hitler, with no chance of escape.

No, I meant countries should work together for the benefit of humankind.

Global warming is real.

Vaccines don't cause autism. But air pollution does. (It increases the odds.) Think of the irony of that one for a minute. (See Trump tweets.)

Better to worry about real crap - polluted air - than fake crap - secret society satanic high priest New World Order lizard people enslavers.

Online Aurata

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #34 on: Today at 01:05:14 AM »
No, I meant countries should work together for the benefit of humankind.

Actually you said there should be a one world government.

American hegemony patently does not seek "to work together for the benefit of humankind".


Its all about controlling other countries to work for the benefit of the US.

This is why they topple governments that do not serve their interests and replace them with ones that do.

This is why they persecute countries who want to remain independent and have their own foreign policy.

This is why they try to bully European nations into a federalized superstate.

This is why they try to force through agreements like the TPP so their massive multinational companies get to run the globe without hindrance from pesky governments.

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than fake crap - secret society satanic high priest New World Order lizard people enslavers.

Conspiratorial self-serving groups subverting government to their own ends is a constant feature of every civilization in world history, not a crazy fantasy.

Its a pattern that humans inevitably fall into, as is corrupt rulers and power structures.

You really sure that Americas rich and powerful do not meet in secret weird elitist societies? Plenty of evidence out there. Also masses of first-hand evidence that the CIA has been lying to you for decades. Your problem is you don't want to know.

Its better to support hard-won democratic structures rather than haplessly let them be taken away as you are doing.

You seem like someone who has just watched CNN since birth and never bothered to read or look at alternative evidence. Now that America is actually beginning to wake up you've gone into shock because your tiny worldview is being shaken.
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Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #35 on: Today at 01:26:27 AM »
No, I meant countries should work together for the benefit of humankind.

Corporations work for the benefit of maximized profits. That's what globalism currently means. There are no mechanics yet designed to objectively measure, and execute, "benefits for mankind", only mechanics for profits (a false equivalence).

We're thousands of years away from what you are talking about.

Online Aurata

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #36 on: Today at 01:37:49 AM »
Quote from: Aurata
crazy secret societies where they plot world domination and their planned new world order.
Quote from: LifeImprovement
better to worry about real crap than than fake crap-secret society..

Even when the elites themselves admit it?

Bush / Kerry Skull and Bones Avoidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJDs1cg9Eo

George Bush and Skull and Bones (Part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J0XSh71tMk

George Bush, Skull and Bones, the CIA and Illicit Drug Operations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX7esxM41dc

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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #37 on: Today at 02:01:31 AM »
"We can exclusively reveal that George Bush Sr.'s occult name is Magog, which is the name of the evil army commanded by Satan to visit earth and destroy the kingdom of Christ."

Sounds credible. :shocked: I'm afraid! :cry: :evil: :huh:

Online Aurata

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #38 on: Today at 02:27:38 AM »
"We can exclusively reveal that George Bush Sr.'s occult name is Magog, which is the name of the evil army commanded by Satan to visit earth and destroy the kingdom of Christ."

Sounds credible. :shocked: I'm afraid! :cry: :evil: :huh:

You said that they did not attend secret societies.

I just proved that they did.


How many points can you lose in one thread?  :laugh:
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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: Trump to sign 'Buy American, Hire American' executive order
« Reply #39 on: Today at 02:37:14 AM »
This is what I said:

Better to worry about real crap - polluted air - than fake crap - secret society satanic high priest New World Order lizard people enslavers.

 

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