October 23, 2017, 01:37:37 PM


Author Topic: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians  (Read 3110 times)

Offline Ptolemy

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2017, 08:35:42 PM »
^ Good post. The fact is even if Hillary Crew can't comprehend, "screw it, let's go Trump" isn't actually stupid and is a pretty okay move, given their options. Even if Trump fails his voters miserably, this opens up all sorts of doors. Break out of the rut.

http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

Offline Aurata

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2017, 01:56:53 AM »
^ Good post. The fact is even if Hillary Crew can't comprehend, "screw it, let's go Trump" isn't actually stupid and is a pretty okay move, given their options. Even if Trump fails his voters miserably, this opens up all sorts of doors. Break out of the rut.

http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

Mainstream media alienated half the country by rejecting the democratic will of the people and portraying trump voters as having low IQ's.

That was a pretty stupid move on their part.
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Offline Ptolemy

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2017, 03:47:54 AM »
^ And Hillary is still at it, calling 50% of America misogynists. WTF? I keep thinking there is going to be a permanent grudge, some who will never vote democrat again, ever.

Offline Aurata

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2017, 03:58:44 AM »
Without the Russian interference could he have gotten in?

Before you talk about Russian interference as if it were fact, you actually need to prove Russian interference.

Evidence.

Maybe that's a hard concept for you to understand.

Quote
Catalogue of mainstream media "errors" in the Trump era.

Feb. 14: One Hell of a Buried lead

The Claim: "Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence."

The Source: The New York Times.

The Facts: This entry is slightly different from most of the others on this list.

The Times reported Trump's people communicated with Russian intelligence officials at around the same time hackers were publishing personal email stolen from of Democratic National Committee staffers and Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta.


The issue with this particular Times report is that there is a crucial bit of information that the paper doesn't mention until after the reader has already been introduced to the idea of Trump/Russian collusion.

The story opens with these two paragraphs:

Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump's 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.
 American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.

It doesn't look good for Trump. The report's headline alone leads readers to suspect a disturbing partnership between the president's people and the Russians.

But buried at the third paragraph in the Times report is a crucial detail: "The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation."


Oh.

That's an important piece of information, and it should have been included in the story's first paragraph.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mainstream-media-errors-in-the-trump-era-your-catalogue-of-the-medias-bias-fueled-failure-fest/article/2614432
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 04:01:02 AM by Aurata »
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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2017, 08:02:28 AM »
The Russians wanted Trump to win.

Members of the Trump team were in contact Russians.

These two above statements can be true even if there is not actually concrete proof of collusion.

Offline Aurata

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2017, 12:13:32 PM »
The Russians wanted Trump to win.

Members of the Trump team were in contact Russians.

These two above statements can be true even if there is not actually concrete proof of collusion.

Where is the evidence that Trump was in contact with them?



Quote
Intel chairman says no evidence yet of Trump campaign contacts with Russia

By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Monday, February 27, 2017

House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes said Monday hes not see any evidence so far that Trump campaign officials had any contacts with Russian officials, contradicting public reports.

We still dont have any evidence of them talking to Russians, Mr. Nunes said as he briefed reporters. As of right now, the initial inquiries Ive made to the appropriate agencies, I dont have any evidence.

He said hes interested in evidence, but it doesnt appear the investigative agencies have it.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/27/intel-no-evidence-trump-campaign-contact-russia/
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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2017, 02:15:17 PM »
Are you familiar with Republican Devin Nunes? Like you, he's a Trump loyalist. I wouldn't take one man's word- especially his- as proof of truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Nunes#Trump.E2.80.93Russia_investigation

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2017, 05:07:29 PM »
Are you familiar with Republican Devin Nunes? Like you, he's a Trump loyalist. I wouldn't take one man's word- especially his- as proof of truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Nunes#Trump.E2.80.93Russia_investigation

How about ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/04/02/adam_schiff_there_is_no_definitive_proof_of_any_trump-russia_connection.html

You do realize that your standard of "Because it feels right" is no standard at all, right? By that logic various theories about shady dealings involving the Clinton Foundation or Clinton contacts with the Saudis or the Chinese are evidence of collusion. The standard is the evidence and the investigation. It's why Benghazi was a crock. It's why the email scandal was overblown (something you might fire someone for, but not send them off to jail). I think at best this investigation is going to end up like Scooter Libby or Sandy Berger, an intermediate level adviser gets busted but nothing that reaches the administration.

Regardless, Russian activities were not why Clinton lost.

And "The Russians Wanted Trump to Win" does not invalidate his presidency. The Chinese and the Saudis wanted Clinton to win. The Al-Qaeda linked rebels wanted Clinton to win. That's right, actual terrorist groups wanted Clinton to win because she'd bomb Assad. Now, as much as I disagree with her foreign policy, the fact that Al-Qaeda linked rebels want her to win because she'd go after Assad is not cause for her presidency to become illegitimate, and neither is Russia wanting Trump to win.


Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2017, 05:32:55 PM »
Russia made fake news to hurt Clinton and thus help Trump. No collusion necessary. (But still could have happened.)

RT has a lot of influence on Americans. Other groups don't have an RT like mouthpiece so readily believed or vast spreading thousands of bot comments. But Russia did and does have a large troll army.


Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2017, 05:37:14 PM »
Russian activities were not why Clinton lost.

You cannot definitively state that as fact. Not in such a close election.

I'd rate it as probable but not certain.

0% chance? That's foolish. A number of factors worked in Trump's favor. One can't know for sure how much weight each had.

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2017, 05:40:13 PM »

Offline Aurata

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2017, 06:16:45 PM »
Russia made fake news to hurt Clinton and thus help Trump.

That's another claim.

Claims require evidence.

What fake news did Russia make?

Quote
RT has a lot of influence on Americans.

Another claim.

Evidence?


You really want alternative viewpoints banned so that the official viewpoint from the elites is the only one people ever hear?

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Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2017, 06:29:45 PM »
Do I want alternative viewpoints banned? No, just disproven. If they're false that is. Bill Maher and his guests are elites? Next week Elizabeth Warren will be on his show. She's an elite, too?

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2017, 06:34:40 PM »
In the post-Soviet era, disinformation evolved to become a key tactic in the military doctrine of Russia.[26] Russia used disinformation to such a high degree during the early 21st century that both the European Union and NATO each took effort to set up special units to analyze and debunk fabricated falsehoods.[26] NATO founded a modest facility in Latvia to respond to disinformation, and the EU created the European External Action Service which published weekly reports on disinformation tied back to the Kremlin.[27] Methods used during this period of time by Russia included its Kremlin-controlled mouthpieces news agency Sputnik News and television outlet Russia Today (RT).[26] When explaining the 2016 annual report of the Swedish Security Service on disinformation, representative Wilhelm Unge stated: "We mean everything from internet trolls to propaganda and misinformation spread by media companies like RT and Sputnik."[26]

Offline maximmm

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2017, 08:20:33 PM »
Err.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_United_States#International
Point being, what Russia is doing now is what the US has been doing for many, many decades.  I'm not saying it's right, but as far as disinformation dissemination is concerned, the US has been pissing in the Russia's (and a crapload of other countries) garden for a lot longer.

I'm actually pretty surprised just how successful RT has been.  There is no doubt that it's a network that operates with an agenda.  Having said that, given that it allows American voices to be heard where they would have been shunned otherwise by the mainstream US media, I think it is awesome.  I do think that RT would have been a lot less successful if the US mainstream media operated without an agenda/bias - as you wouldn't have to tune in to RT in order to learn what the disenfranchised part of the US/EU/world population (journalists, politicians, former intelligence operatives, etc, etc) has to say about the US/world affairs. 

As things stand, RT is the big equalizer in the disinformation war. 

Oh, and the best part of RT is ruptly live  - where they stream live coverage, commentary free, of some major events (particularly protests in the US, Russia, France, etc).  Right this second, they are streaming live footage from a protest in Cologne.  No other network does this.  It's awesome. 

« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 08:42:53 PM by maximmm »

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2017, 11:02:32 PM »
Point being, what Russia is doing now is what the US has been doing for many, many decades.

The difference being the USA is spreading true information while Russia is spreading false information. Right now in 2017. So not the same at all. Completely opposite.


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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2017, 11:03:02 PM »

Offline Life Improvement

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2017, 11:11:12 PM »
I'm actually pretty surprised just how successful RT has been.  There is no doubt that it's a network that operates with an agenda.  Having said that, given that it allows American voices to be heard where they would have been shunned otherwise by the mainstream US media, I think it is awesome.

Yeah, American mainstream media generally doesn't give airtime to crazy people, discredited mentally ill conspiracy theorists, liars, pro-Russian disinformation trolls on Putin's payroll, etc. It's good that RT does? Their goal is to make the West look bad / make Russia look good. 

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2017, 11:44:07 PM »
You cannot definitively state that as fact. Not in such a close election.

I'd rate it as probable but not certain.

0% chance? That's foolish. A number of factors worked in Trump's favor. One can't know for sure how much weight each had.

The thing is that there are dozens of factors that one can cite in a close election, same as in say, a sporting event.

The only people who paid attention to the Russian propaganda were hardcore partisan Republican political junkies. These were people who already knew how they were voting. The wikileaks stuff? The Sanders crowd was already howling about how the DNC was rigged against Bernie.

How about her taking Wisconsin for granted? How about her comments about coal miners? How about her stumble and fall and BS explanation for it? How about Clinton fatigue? How about the utter collapse of manufacturing in the Rust Belt? How about the decline across America of the Democratic Party?

And lets give some credit to Tump. Lets credit him with playing the media for free attention. Lets credit him for giving a bold, simple, unfiltered by PC message. Lets credit him with busting his butt on the campaign trail and holding rally after rally while Clinton met with her donors. Lets credit his use of persuasion and sales techniques. Lets credit him having a good solid feel for the electorate and understanding that the people were ready to take on sacred cows. Lets credit him for defeating not 1, but both political parties. Lets credit him with unifying a fractured Republican Party. Lets credit him with being quick witted. Lets credit him with correctly identifying an electoral path to victory and implementing it.

This was building. Here are 3 Super Bowl commercials that perfectly encapsulate what was coming in the Midwest, both its industrial cities and its rural areas.

2011 'Imported from Detroit'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc
2012 'Halftime in America'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIVjCghMo2E
2013 'God Made a Farmer'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLVII

These 3 commercials, all from Chrysler-Dodge, got a tremendous response across America, ESPECIALLY in Michigan and other auto factory towns across America. Being from suburban Detroit, I can personally attest to the profound effect they had- people posting on facebook, Super Bowl parties brought to tears, people say "finally someone is listening". There isn't a person in SE Michigan who doesn't have family or a close friend who is or was connected to the auto industry. The cultural divide represented is as clear as the Trump vote. You could substitute this for coal in Pennsylvania, farms in Iowa, or factories in Wisconsin and Ohio. You can see the genesis of what became the Trump movement in them- the defiant tone, the apocalyptic setting, the appeal to former greatness, and the divide between Middle America and the elitist coasts (especially in contrast to the other commercials shown during Super Bowls).

The Rust Belt and the rural areas felt like the ugly girl at the dance and Trump was the handsome (I know) guy who came over and asked for their hand when no one else would. And just like that ugly girl it would have taken A LOT for them to turn on him.

Not going to listen to me? Listen to Michael Moore and Chris Matthews, two hardcore Democrats as to why Trump.

Michael Moore on Trump
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc
(And to connect it to the buy American thread, Moore notes that there are far more of the unemployed former middle class than newly created millionaires)

Chris Matthews on Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbW2BiurBpw 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7zV5_8leuE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dO9u8n4s3M

Joe Scarborough on the failure of MSM reporting, propaganda and its effect on the election
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY3nRgEZTm8

This was a wave that was building and had nothing to do with Russia or Putin and if you think it did and the Democrats think the same way and that's what you focus on, say goodbye to the 2018 midterms and Trump cruises to a second term.

Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: US airstrike on Mosul kills 200 civilians
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2017, 11:49:22 PM »
Point being, what Russia is doing now is what the US has been doing for many, many decades.

The difference being the USA is spreading true information while Russia is spreading false information. Right now in 2017. So not the same at all. Completely opposite.

So CNN's portrayal of the recent North Korean crisis was true and correctly captured the sentiment in South Korea and the level of tension? Was CNN true when it portrayed the Syrian rebels as noble freedom fighters rather than Al-Qaeda affiliates?

The American media would never lie about a story to its viewers.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 12:00:08 AM by Mr.DeMartino »

 

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