March 26, 2017, 04:33:08 AM


Author Topic: Why Korean is less scientific than English  (Read 1167 times)

Offline kyndo

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Re: Why Korean is less scientific than English
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 03:09:29 PM »
Some languages have lower information rates than others.
https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/why-do-japanese-people-talk-so-fast/

Korean is the most like Japanese of the languages in the study. Even though Japanese is spoken the fastest (most syllables per second) it has the lowest information rate. What could be communicated in ten minutes in English would take about 15 minutes in Japanese. Maybe that is one reason why Koreans and Japanese study more hours- they must deal with a lower signal to noise ratio.
   Nope.
   Regardless of language, verbal information is passed along at more or less the same rate: those languages with a lower info density have higher rates of speech.
    This is because the rate of information flow is a reflection of human thought processes, and as we all know, this is more or less the same the world over (only ignorant racists would argue otherwise).

Quote
It seems that humans may be naturally and universally self-regulating when it comes to communicating through speech. There is a balance that cannot be disturbed: fast syllables are not allowed to carry too much meaning, and syllables with lots of information must be spoken slowly.

This is an interesting source if you want to know more about how information is passed along with respect to the speed and informational density of various languages.

So judging by that benchmark, English was the most "scientific" of the languages studied. Efficiency is why. Too bad Korean wasn't in that study. (Not a major world language so it was ignored I guess.) Korean is slightly less information dense than Japanese I'd say, as its grammar is a bit more convoluted.
  Again, no. What good is a language if it takes forever and a half to learn it properly? Chinese Hanja is incredibly information dense, but students are still learning every-day vocabulary in highschool. Likewise, to master English, we need to know incredibly vast amounts of vocabulary and grammar because English is an exceptional (pun!) language when it comes to exceptions.

As an aside, I also think that before we discuss this any further we need to define what is meant by 'scientific' as I don't feel that it is the same as 'efficient'.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:14:47 PM by kyndo »

Offline CDW

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Re: Why Korean is less scientific than English
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 03:26:20 PM »
Some languages have lower information rates than others.
https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/why-do-japanese-people-talk-so-fast/

Korean is the most like Japanese of the languages in the study. Even though Japanese is spoken the fastest (most syllables per second) it has the lowest information rate. What could be communicated in ten minutes in English would take about 15 minutes in Japanese. Maybe that is one reason why Koreans and Japanese study more hours- they must deal with a lower signal to noise ratio.
   Nope.
   Regardless of language, verbal information is passed along at more or less the same rate: those languages with a lower info density have higher rates of speech.
    This is because the rate of information flow is a reflection of human thought processes, and as we all know, this is more or less the same the world over (only ignorant racists would argue otherwise).
Whatever. Speaking faster did not fully compensate for having a lower information density in the study.

Quote
This is an interesting source if you want to know more about how information is passed along with respect to the speed and informational density of various languages.
Yes, it is interesting especially since it contradicts your claims.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:34:44 PM by CDW »

Offline kobayashi

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Re: Why Korean is less scientific than English
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2017, 03:38:32 PM »
Nope.
Regardless of language, verbal information is passed along at more or less the same rate: those languages with a lower info density have higher rates of speech.
This is because the rate of information flow is a reflection of human thought processes, and as we all know, this is more or less the same the world over (only ignorant racists would argue otherwise).

nope.

did you even read the link? Japanese had the lowest information rate.

Quote
Now let's combine Information Density and Syllabic Rate to get the "Information Rate." Compared to all the other languages in this study, the Japanese language actually communicates information more slowly than everyone else. It is four standard deviations away from the norm which is quite a bit considering that the second slowest, German, is only 1.5 standard deviations out.

Offline JNM

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Re: Why Korean is less scientific than English
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2017, 06:31:15 PM »
Scientific?

What a strange word to use.

Does anybody know the Korean word the original author used for this?


Offline CO2

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Re: Why Korean is less scientific than English
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2017, 06:34:22 PM »
Scientific?

What a strange word to use.

Does anybody know the Korean word the original author used for this?

Offline cjszk

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Offline kyndo

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Re: Why Korean is less scientific than English
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2017, 11:42:59 AM »
Did you even read the link? Japanese had the lowest information rate.
Yes I did read the link, thanks for posting it!
I wasn't saying that there aren't any difference at all in information rates. I was trying tosay that differences in information density are mitigated by differences in rate of speech. Clearly there are differences, but they aren't as great as what information density would lead one to assume. Maybe I shouldn't have said 'more or less the same', but the difference between .5 and .75 is pretty substantial (when looking at English and Japanese). That was my point. Apologies if I didn't convey it clearly.

    With respect to the experiment from which those numbers were derived, I feel that there is a bit of a flaw: the articles which people read were all translated directly from English. Translations often result in awkward sentence structures (which is what several of the comments pointed out). It's possible that had the experiment designers used articles originating from that language, the results would be slightly different. As it is, I think that their experimental design might skew information rates in English's favour.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 11:45:24 AM by kyndo »

 

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