March 26, 2017, 04:31:47 AM


Author Topic: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?  (Read 1476 times)

Offline lazerbullet

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Welcome to ghost time
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 06:38:55 PM »

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
I don't want to get into the beer debate--I like it all, pretty much--but the flag thing shouldn't be confusing.  Surely the teacher can take a moment to discuss the two Irelands, the one in the UK being the Northern one ...

Only the flag in your PPT isn't the Northern Irish one. There are actually three flags. The diagonal St Patrick's flag in your PPT from when Ireland was united and was incorporated into the Union Jack, the tricolour representing the republic of Ireland from after the Irish civil war and the ulster flag of Northern Ireland, which looks like the English flag with a hand and crown.

Northern Ireland has no official flag!

Offline eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 06:52:04 PM »
I never said it did

Offline slycordinator

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 974
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2017, 07:38:15 AM »
I moved back to the US. I have 11th and 12th grade high schoolers that don't know the difference. It's not just the issue of the language.

Besides, in my mind England is 잉글랜드 and the UK is 영국.
Sure, but are you Korean?

An old Korean teacher once went through a PPT with us showing various common flags of us foreigners and we'd say where we come from in Korean.

Her: This is the UK.
Me: By the way, I think that's the flag of England. It's definitely not the UK flag.
Her: Wait. What's the difference?

Offline Mr C

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2017, 10:45:44 AM »

I also did a very brief history on how South Africa was founded, with it being a British and Dutch colony for hundreds of years. I used this as an explanation as to why not every South African is black and why South Africans speak English,
yeah, i can imagine this going over well.

willing to share the ppts? if it ever comes up in my classes, it would be nice to be able to quickly and effectively explain
These are the slides I use in the fifth grade lesson.  The third slide has the Republic of Ireland flag on it, to distinguish that, as well.

Just curious but why is there a glass of what looks like lager in the Irish box? Irish lager is about as bad as Korean by the way. I guess a glass of Guinness would be more appropriate, even though stout actually originated in England. It's also a bit confusing that the Irish flag in the box is different from the Irish flag that made up part of the union jack (St Patrick's cross)
I don't want to get into the beer debate--I like it all, pretty much--but the flag thing shouldn't be confusing.  Surely the teacher can take a moment to discuss the two Irelands, the one in the UK being the Northern one ...

Only the flag in your PPT isn't the Northern Irish one. There are actually three flags. The diagonal St Patrick's flag in your PPT from when Ireland was united and was incorporated into the Union Jack, the tricolour representing the republic of Ireland from after the Irish civil war and the ulster flag of Northern Ireland, which looks like the English flag with a hand and crown.
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Offline eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2017, 10:53:25 AM »
Quote
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Fair enough, though it's a little ironic that this whole thread originated from a post about Koreans misrepresenting flags, and now you're in effect saying they don't matter as well.

Offline chrisinkorea2011

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 162
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2017, 10:56:31 AM »
Quote
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Fair enough, though it's a little ironic that this whole thread originated from a post about Koreans misrepresenting flags, and now you're in effect saying they don't matter as well.

You heard of the golden girls? Well Mr. C is a golden boy by all standards and likes to get pissy sometimes if something isnt his standards or thoughts.

Offline Mr C

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2017, 12:45:20 PM »
Quote
Dude, I don't teach history. My purpose is to distinguish the UK from England.

Don't use my slides if you don't think they're useful.

Fair enough, though it's a little ironic that this whole thread originated from a post about Koreans misrepresenting flags, and now you're in effect saying they don't matter as well.

You heard of the golden girls? Well Mr. C is a golden boy by all standards and likes to get pissy sometimes if something isnt his standards or thoughts.
Oh, please.  First, there is no misrepresentation in the materials I posted.  I simply am not going to spend time on the history of the Emerald Isle when I want to distinguish England from the UK in a thirty second time frame.  You can do whatever you want.

Furthermore, I see no need to drag personal attack into the discussion.  I was not dismissive or insulting or personal.  It remains true that you or eggie or anyone should feel free not to use my materials if you find them in any way wanting.

Is it worth pointing out that no one else has offered anything to the poster I was responding to?

Offline eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2017, 01:16:44 PM »
Quote
First, there is no misrepresentation in the materials I posted.

On the second slide you've got a picture of the old Irish flag next to the country labelled Northern Ireland. That's not the Northern Irish flag, so it's exactly the same as writing England next to the Union Jack.

Offline Chinguetti

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
  • Gender: Female
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2017, 01:19:30 PM »
If it comes up as part of a lesson or game (where they're learning about different places or where geography can get plugged in), I'll bring it up as quick trivia FYI, which always surprises them. It doesn't bother me that they don't really know geography outside of Asia, though. I use it to my advantage. The kids here love trivia in general, and memorization is their thing, so if I go through a slam-lesson where I quickly show them some countries with names and flags, then stick that info into a game later where they have to recall it... keeps them sharp during my class. xD

This reminds me of the time I was speaking to an Indian man and he was legitimately angry with me for not knowing a specific region in India. Pfft. I don't expect him to know all of the counties in the state of Texas, do I? Or even the States of the U.S.A in general. C'mon.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:29:54 PM by Chinguetti »

Offline Mr C

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2017, 04:05:09 PM »
Quote
First, there is no misrepresentation in the materials I posted.

On the second slide you've got a picture of the old Irish flag next to the country labelled Northern Ireland. That's not the Northern Irish flag, so it's exactly the same as writing England next to the Union Jack.
Ah, I see.  Yes, then I should have placed the flag a couple of inches south and bit more west, so that it referred to the whole island. I stand suitably chastened, although it's still not misrepresentation so much as the non-optimal placement of a graphic that will be seen for 10 seconds.

And I did make a distinction between NI and Republic, even if you don't like the color of the beer.

Still, I am totally not going to teach the history of Ireland while trying to separate the concept of England from the UK.


Offline eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2017, 04:12:50 PM »
Quote
Ah, I see.  Yes, then I should have placed the flag a couple of inches south and bit more west, so that it referred to the whole island. I stand suitably chastened, although it's still not misrepresentation so much as the non-optimal placement of a graphic that will be seen for 10 seconds.

You're either teaching kids something or you're not. if you don't want them to learn about the different UK flags don't show them at all. If you want them to learn about the different UK flags, show them the proper flags next to the proper countries, that's all. You don't have to be chastened, just thank me for pointing it out, change the PPT and move on.

Offline steviegerro

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 86
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't Look Back in Anger
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2017, 05:00:17 PM »
As a Scot I spend my entire time abroad being asked where I am from. If I answer the UK then they'll take that answer as England. It can be nippy!

To be fair, most people recognize the accent, however most have trouble with the UK. Or Great Britain, which is technically different from the UK. Even Brits don't have a clue what's going on half the time.

In my class I will correct anyone about where I am from if they say England. Nothing against the English, I just hate bad geography.


Offline richardtejedo

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2017, 05:05:18 PM »
Yes! So frustrating, not only is it factually incorrect to put England next to the Union jack but it disregards the other 3 countries in the UK. My co-teacher didn't even know there was a difference. I used this ppt to explain the difference, the students understood the difference after.

Offline kobayashi

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2017, 05:34:04 PM »
i'm forced to teach it because it comes up in one of the textbooks. the book has the union jack as the flag for england  :huh:

Offline gidget

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 207
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2017, 09:37:12 PM »
I've had 2x CTs ask me about the difference and they both mentioned it in their classes as an interesting fact but that's as far as it's ever gone.

Offline Nialljcr

  • Explorer
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2017, 01:12:11 PM »
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

Offline eggieguffer

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2017, 02:19:55 PM »
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

Not that it makes any difference to the argument but I'm Anglo Irish and I don't think likening the Northern Irish situation to The Japanese conquest of Korea is a good idea. it's adding fuel to the idea most people round the world have that Northern Ireland is a remaining colony of  the UK that would prefer to be part of a united Ireland. As we know protestants have been colonising Ireland since the 16th century, most of them coming from Scotland in fact which was part of a united UK at that time. Families who had lived in Ireland since the 16th century then voted in the majority to remain part of the UK in what is currently Northern Ireland.  There's no reason why you can't relate this to intelligent adults.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 02:22:51 PM by eggieguffer »

Offline akplmn

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Gender: Female
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2017, 03:06:27 PM »
My fifth grade textbook taught England but used the Union Jack, so I considered it, but in the end I didn't bother.  With high level kids, I would have, but I have low level kids, and teaching something different than the textbook really confuses them.  Frankly, just getting them to remember the word "England" was challenge enough.  I'll leave the political nuances of the UK vs Great Britain vs England for middle school.

Offline Nialljcr

  • Explorer
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2017, 03:18:18 PM »
Northern Irish person here of Irish descent.

This has come up in my classes as I've just started a new school in which they've told everyone I'm from the UK. I've told all my 4th and 5th grade classes that I'm from the UK and then explained that the UK includes Northern Ireland and that England is an individual country. When the flashcards show England next to the union jack and the students answer "I'm from England" I usually correct to the UK and I've also pointed out that I consider myself Irish. (This was all somewhat negated when I had to do the school English morning broadcast and my CT had me talking about food in Britain and I had to lead in by saying I was from the UK and then the related video talked about only English food...). I usually relate the Irish divided situation to the fact Korea is also divided and, with adults, I usually talk about how Japan invaded Korea in the same way England invaded Ireland to try and make it relatable.

With my 3rd grade students I just left it as is because i don't think it is massively important for that age.

Fact is, this is a complicated issue and it is important to teach accurate information but, on the other hand, we are English teachers and not geography or history teachers. My feeling is that I will teach it if I feel it is appropriate to bring up at the time but, honestly, I have had to explain it many times over to adults and students and people still don't quite understand (especially when you bring up the religious aspects of the divide). I tend to focus on accuracy in English language, hope students will be interested and understand the situation and realise they will probably pick up this particular information later in life if they need to. I've spent as long trying to explain the situation to other nationalities with similar results in fairness.

So, tl:dr no harm in bringing it up but it isn't the most important thing in the world.

Not that it makes any difference to the argument but I'm Anglo Irish and I don't think likening the Northern Irish situation to The Japanese conquest of Korea is a good idea. it's adding fuel to the idea most people round the world have that Northern Ireland is a remaining colony of  the UK that would prefer to be part of a united Ireland. As we know protestants have been colonising Ireland since the 16th century, most of them coming from Scotland in fact which was part of a united UK at that time. Families who had lived in Ireland since the 16th century then voted in the majority to remain part of the UK in what is currently Northern Ireland.  There's no reason why you can't relate this to intelligent adults.


Each to their own fella.

Offline fas6pa

  • Explorer
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Gender: Male
Re: Do you teach the difference between England and the UK?
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2017, 04:52:45 PM »
What difference?

 

Recent Lesson Plans

Teaching out of a story book: Middle School by oglop
[Yesterday at 12:50:06 PM]


Tabletop games in class by lifeisgood6447
[March 24, 2017, 05:50:41 PM]

Buy/Sell/Trade

Employment