November 24, 2017, 03:29:58 PM

Author Topic: comfort woman statue in Busan  (Read 4439 times)

Online Piggydee

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 12:31:11 PM »
that's like killing an entire village of XYZ people just because two XYZ guys raped your mother.  The raping of your mother is horrible but the entire village doesn't need to burn.  September 11th was terrible but I think USA has surpassed the body count in Middle East for retribution for those attacks.   And the babies being born in Iraq at this moment....not a pretty sight.  Deformaties are plenty and the US pulled out of that area a while back.

steviegerro

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 12:32:06 PM »
Read Eugene Sledge's The Old Breed and visit or read up on what happened on Okinawa before stating it's wrong to say dropping the bomb in Japan didn't save lives.
I don't think anybody would disagree that nuking 2 medium-large cities saved lives. The war might have dragged on another few months if they hadn't.
    What most reasonable people would question is whether it was worth it: killing over 200,000 people and inflicting another substantial number of people with radiation related illnesses is a very high price.
    Of course, very few American lives were lost due to the bombs, and America was able to show that it had a terrifying new weapon in its arsenal. Those 2 considerations were undeniably the reasoning behind destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

You should give this a read too.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/why-did-world-war-ii-end

Online grey

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2017, 12:46:55 PM »
Why is it racist to think dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right descision?
I guess it would depend on *why* one feels it was the right decision.

"Japs are a cruel race. They deserved those nukes." = racist af.
"Dropping those bombs ended the war. It was the right thing to do." = not racist af.*

*I disagree with both of those quoted statements, btw. There was no real reason to drop those bombs except that somebody wanted to see their shiny new toys in action. The Japanese army and navy were already done. It just hurried the inevitable surrender up a bit.

As an aside I think it's wrong and dangerous when I hear the nukes saved lives.

What's stopping some crazy person from using that logic in any other part of the (non-nuclear) world.

The fact that it took nukes, and not nuke seems pretty bad for humanity.
Read Eugene Sledge's The Old Breed and visit or read up on what happened on Okinawa before stating it's wrong to say dropping the bomb in Japan didn't save lives.

If I read it am I allowed to keep my opinion?

Let's say Middle East peace is never going to happen. Nukes, and start again.

In the Japan case, what if it didn't take 2 nukes, but 15? At what number of cities nuked would it be a bad idea to nuke?
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Online kyndo

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 12:47:22 PM »
You should give this a read too.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/why-did-world-war-ii-end
I will, thanks for the link.  :smiley:

And I agree that Japan would not have surrendered immediately, but it was out of military resources, and the Allies had advanced to the point where they could freely carpet bomb whichever city they damn well pleased. It might have taken a while and the surrender terms may not have been as absolute, but I don't doubt that a surrender was inevitable, and I don't believe that it would have taken hundreds of thousands of additional deaths for the treaties to be signed.

Of course that's only anopinion and is impossible to prove or disprove, but I do enjoy speculating. Historical alternatives are always fun to argue about.  :smiley:

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2017, 01:55:40 PM »
As far as the A-bomb winning the war, I think it's pretty clear why that the Russian invasion had far more of an effect. Japan could tell what had happened with Germany and the fates of Imperialists under Communist regimes are well known. Surrendering to the U.S. means that a few hundred generals and industrialists go to the gallows, but their families keep their positions and their corporations continue on.

About the only corporation that can survive a Communist takeover is a vodka distillery, possibly a tobacco company.

Whether it was right or not to drop the bomb is purely speculative. It might well have prevented WWIII. It might also have been completely unnecessary. Sadly, it seems that in history, sometimes you have to flex and show your capability for cruelty in order to protect your country.


As far as the comfort women statue. Japan's apologies are about as sincere as your hagwon boss apologizing for scamming you out of a month's pay and everyone knows it. That being said, building such a statue outside their embassy is a total troll job. It's positively Trumpian.

Offline jjalan87

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2017, 03:56:35 PM »
Answering an earlier post, commemorating victims of war by making a statue is perfectly ok. But 37 of them? (According to a recent BBC article) And right outside the embassies (Busan and Seoul)? Thats petty, and as others have said, trolling pure and simple.

In this particular case I think its because it was Park who signed off on last years agreement, so obviously it is now yet another thing she did that people can attack. (On a separate note, I also think its disgusting how's she is being treated - people are having a go at her because she had some surgery?? Every other woman in Seoul has been under the knife! It's beyond belief. )

In sum, I think the Japanese should ask for their money back from last years agreement and tell the Koreans to f*** off until they can grow up and sort themselves out.

Offline basi

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2017, 06:21:20 PM »
The triggered Japanese can cry about this as much as they want. The statue will still stand. The Japanese need some shaming, its healthy considering how overly sensitive they are to it.

Online Mister Tim

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2017, 06:39:57 PM »
The Japanese need some shaming, its healthy considering how overly sensitive they are to it.

I agree completely. Countries that are overly sensitive to shame and criticism should be given a healthy dose of it to help toughen them up.

Say, can anyone think of any other countries that might qualify?

Offline basi

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2017, 06:42:00 PM »
The Japanese need some shaming, its healthy considering how overly sensitive they are to it.

I agree completely. Countries that are overly sensitive to shame and criticism should be given a healthy dose of it to help toughen them up.

Say, can anyone think of any other countries that might qualify?

Saudi Arabia

Online zola

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2017, 07:41:23 PM »
Both North and South Korea.

Online gogators!

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 07:48:46 PM »
Why is it racist to think dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right descision?
I guess it would depend on *why* one feels it was the right decision.

"Japs are a cruel race. They deserved those nukes." = racist af.
"Dropping those bombs ended the war. It was the right thing to do." = not racist af.*

*I disagree with both of those quoted statements, btw. There was no real reason to drop those bombs except that somebody wanted to see their shiny new toys in action. The Japanese army and navy were already done. It just hurried the inevitable surrender up a bit.

As an aside I think it's wrong and dangerous when I hear the nukes saved lives.

What's stopping some crazy person from using that logic in any other part of the (non-nuclear) world.

The fact that it took nukes, and not nuke seems pretty bad for humanity.
Read Eugene Sledge's The Old Breed and visit or read up on what happened on Okinawa before stating it's wrong to say dropping the bomb in Japan didn't save lives.

There were atrocities committed by both sides in the conflict. The allies did plenty of horrible stuff in order to win the war.

I'd recommend this for a more balanced view on the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJMQ5fSG6k&list=PLC46CE7D51E1F77B5&index=4
He's pointing his finger at the Soviets.

No matter. Sledge was there; Ferguson wasn't. The dude does have a flair for the dramatic, but it's hard to take his labored speaking for very long.

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2017, 07:54:43 PM »
that's like killing an entire village of XYZ people just because two XYZ guys raped your mother.  The raping of your mother is horrible but the entire village doesn't need to burn.  September 11th was terrible but I think USA has surpassed the body count in Middle East for retribution for those attacks.   And the babies being born in Iraq at this moment....not a pretty sight.  Deformaties are plenty and the US pulled out of that area a while back.
Silly analogy considering how many the Japanese war machine killed before and during WWII.

As for the Middle East body count, I'd give the nod to ISIS, al Queda, Assad, Shia on Shiite and vice versa. Invading Iraq was definitely a mistake, IMO, but not everything is the U.S.'s fault.

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 07:56:37 PM »
Why is it racist to think dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right descision?
I guess it would depend on *why* one feels it was the right decision.

"Japs are a cruel race. They deserved those nukes." = racist af.
"Dropping those bombs ended the war. It was the right thing to do." = not racist af.*

*I disagree with both of those quoted statements, btw. There was no real reason to drop those bombs except that somebody wanted to see their shiny new toys in action. The Japanese army and navy were already done. It just hurried the inevitable surrender up a bit.

As an aside I think it's wrong and dangerous when I hear the nukes saved lives.

What's stopping some crazy person from using that logic in any other part of the (non-nuclear) world.

The fact that it took nukes, and not nuke seems pretty bad for humanity.
Read Eugene Sledge's The Old Breed and visit or read up on what happened on Okinawa before stating it's wrong to say dropping the bomb in Japan didn't save lives.

If I read it am I allowed to keep my opinion?

Let's say Middle East peace is never going to happen. Nukes, and start again.

In the Japan case, what if it didn't take 2 nukes, but 15? At what number of cities nuked would it be a bad idea to nuke?
If a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass every time it hopped.

As for opinions, wouldn't you rather have an informed one than a half-assed one? Which, of course, you are more than welcome to.

Online gogators!

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 07:57:48 PM »
The Japanese need some shaming, its healthy considering how overly sensitive they are to it.

I agree completely. Countries that are overly sensitive to shame and criticism should be given a healthy dose of it to help toughen them up.

Say, can anyone think of any other countries that might qualify?
The collective narcissists who reside on the Korean Peninsula, by chance?

Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2017, 07:45:07 AM »
Basing the decision to drop a weapon like the atomic bomb on a city of civilians upon combat against soldiers is questionable at best. It's fine if it's a factor to consider, but you can't just point to Okinawa as justification.

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2017, 08:18:22 AM »
Why is it racist to think dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was the right descision?
I guess it would depend on *why* one feels it was the right decision.

"Japs are a cruel race. They deserved those nukes." = racist af.
"Dropping those bombs ended the war. It was the right thing to do." = not racist af.*

*I disagree with both of those quoted statements, btw. There was no real reason to drop those bombs except that somebody wanted to see their shiny new toys in action. The Japanese army and navy were already done. It just hurried the inevitable surrender up a bit.

As an aside I think it's wrong and dangerous when I hear the nukes saved lives.

What's stopping some crazy person from using that logic in any other part of the (non-nuclear) world.

The fact that it took nukes, and not nuke seems pretty bad for humanity.
Read Eugene Sledge's The Old Breed and visit or read up on what happened on Okinawa before stating it's wrong to say dropping the bomb in Japan didn't save lives.

If I read it am I allowed to keep my opinion?

Let's say Middle East peace is never going to happen. Nukes, and start again.

In the Japan case, what if it didn't take 2 nukes, but 15? At what number of cities nuked would it be a bad idea to nuke?
If a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass every time it hopped.

As for opinions, wouldn't you rather have an informed one than a half-assed one? Which, of course, you are more than welcome to.

I guess we're in the same boat.
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Online Mr.DeMartino

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2017, 09:43:02 AM »
Didn't we all go to school and learn critical thinking and how to select sources?

I don't think it's appropriate to use a personal memoir of a soldier at a few battles as a rational for the use of weapons of mass destruction, nuclear policy, and grand strategy. While the book may be great to give perspective on the individual soldier's struggles during the Pacific War, I just can't see it as the basis for policy and analysis, especially in 2017.

I think the Mother Jones article, which relies upon scholarly research and similar sources would be a better starting place.


Offline CDW

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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2017, 10:06:48 AM »
The Japanese need some shaming, its healthy considering how overly sensitive they are to it.

I agree completely. Countries that are overly sensitive to shame and criticism should be given a healthy dose of it to help toughen them up.

Say, can anyone think of any other countries that might qualify?
Japanese are not very apologetic about the issue because they are too much like Koreans. In both countries, people tend to be very nationalistic and distort history because of this. If you go to Germany, you'll notice a totally different attitude. Many Germans feel it is wrong to be patriotic because of what happened in World War II, and will be very honest about their feelings if you ask them.

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Re: Japan comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2017, 10:37:14 AM »
As far as the A-bomb winning the war, I think it's pretty clear why that the Russian invasion had far more of an effect. Japan could tell what had happened with Germany and the fates of Imperialists under Communist regimes are well known. Surrendering to the U.S. means that a few hundred generals and industrialists go to the gallows, but their families keep their positions and their corporations continue on.

About the only corporation that can survive a Communist takeover is a vodka distillery, possibly a tobacco company.

Whether it was right or not to drop the bomb is purely speculative. It might well have prevented WWIII. It might also have been completely unnecessary. Sadly, it seems that in history, sometimes you have to flex and show your capability for cruelty in order to protect your country.


As far as the comfort women statue. Japan's apologies are about as sincere as your hagwon boss apologizing for scamming you out of a month's pay and everyone knows it. That being said, building such a statue outside their embassy is a total troll job. It's positively Trumpian.

Let's see. You've just seen two cities destroyed in basically the wink of an eye with the threat of more to come. Earlier bombings had caused 8.5 million Japanese to leave the cities to hide out in the countryside. American leaflets promised more destruction to come.

On the other hand, Russia, whom Japan had been negotiating with, was (maybe) finally keeping its promise to the U.S. and had invaded China. (FDR had been hammering Stalin to get a move on.)

It's hard to say the threat of Russia "clearly" had more of an effect.






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Re: comfort woman statue in Busan
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2017, 10:39:35 AM »
Basing the decision to drop a weapon like the atomic bomb on a city of civilians upon combat against soldiers is questionable at best. It's fine if it's a factor to consider, but you can't just point to Okinawa as justification.
Okinawa is just one example.