July 28, 2017, 01:44:27 AM


Author Topic: Russia vs USA  (Read 12201 times)

Offline hippo

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2017, 08:37:59 PM »
Thunderlips, I am not Aurata.  I do not believe in some "globalist" movement because I do not know what people mean when they talk about "globalism."  It could mean very different things depending on who you are talking to.  Also, I think *any* other Democratic candidate or even Republican candidate would have been preferable to Trump--even Ben Carson.  I still don't know what Trump stands for other than promotion of Donald Trump.

Ironically, in some of the WikiLeaks leaks the Democrats wanted Trump (or a candidate such as Ben Carson) to win the Republican nomination because they thought he would be easy to beat.  The Democrats were effectively in favor of Trump as nominee.

Yes, I remember the birther movement and moreover see the continual winks and nods to white supremacist groups, etc.  But Democrats did not foresee a Trump victory.  Even the Trump campaign probably thought they were going to lose at the very end.  The Democrats are trying to delegitimize his election by linking it to a foreign power now that the Democrats lost. US citizens have been taught to hate and fear Russia for a *long* time.  I remember getting under school desks to somehow avoid atomic blasts when I was a kid.

Granted, many people voted for Trump because of racist reasons.  However, many people voted for him because of economic anxieties created by shifts in the economy toward automation, job displacement, migration of factory work to other countries.  This seems highly irrational but so it goes.  Rather than address these realities, Democrats want to turn to resort to Red-Baiting several decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Reagan did not start the Cold War.  US soldiers fought in Russia to stop the Bolsheviks under the Woodrow Wilson administration.  The US cut off relations with Russia until the FDR administration and essentially only became friends because of the threat of Germany.  The atomic Cold War started in the 1940s under Democratic administrations and the Russia-US rivalry has roots that predate the very existence of the Soviet Union.  Harry Truman replaced Henry Wallace, who was a proponent of a much friendlier/less hostile approach to the Soviets, as Roosevelt's VP during his last term.  I always think of the Cold War as starting with the atomic bombings of Japan, as the US had broken Japan's code (indicating they were close to surrender) and to prevent Russia from gaining a foothold in Asia, as Russia invaded essentially Japan essentially at the same time as the bombings in accordance with wartime treaties that had been worked out.  It is possible that the bombs would have dropped without US-Soviet antagonisms (buried in popular media during the Second World War), but it is inconceivable that the Truman administration did not think of the bombs as a diplomatic weapon/bargaining chip.  In any case, if you still think Reagan started the Cold War, explain how Germany got divided into two countries.

Leaders of both US political parties praise leaders just as bad as Putin all the time.  It's considered okay when they are our allies.

Again, it's seems extremely possible that Russia interfered in the election.  However, why should we believe any of this without evidence?  Either concrete evidence should be given or it should not be raised as an issue at all.  It's possible that the government cannot reveal concrete evidence without giving away other surveillance programs.  That's a pity because there is nevertheless no reason anyone should believe intelligence agencies after COINTELPRO, the Vietnam War, the "slam dunk" case for WMDs in Iraq, etc. etc. etc.  These are agencies which spread disinformation all the time. It's better to be skeptical of these organizations and risk a "boy who cried wolf" situation than believe them.   Look at the mess in Iraq, the fallout in neighboring countries from Iraq, the starvation in Yemen.  This is the fruit of US intelligence.  Why should you believe these intelligence agencies secret reports?

In regard to Crimea, Syria, all out war, etc., I *seriously* doubt anybody wants an all out war, but there is the possibility that things could get out of control.  Even if the chance of all-out war was low, it would not want to be a chance worth taking. 





Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2017, 10:06:48 PM »
Even Trump is now admitting Russia hacked the election.


If so he has allowed himself to be bullied into a corner (undoubtedly lied to) by the CIA. They're sucking him in pretty easily. pretty soon he'll just be another frontman for the globalists like Obama became. A puppet.

He's alone and surrounded by the oligarchy. That is his problem.


What he needs to do is order an independent, impartial investigation and surround himself with advisors who are not paid by the CIA.


If Trump fails to fulfil his promises then the people will start to realize that the "democratic process" is a sham manipulated by the oligarchy and they cannot bring about change through the ballot box.

I get my news from a variety of sources, sorry infowars isn't one of them.

Why not? Try taking in a variety of sources. Are you afraid of your own mind?

But fyi, I have never even looked at "infowars", I only know such a website exists because people like you mention it on these threads.

There are hundreds if not thousands of independent news websites trying to fill the gap left by the hoelessly biased propaganda machine that the mainstream media has become, its not all about "infowars".

Quote
at what point is it unacceptable for foreign governments to help ANY candidate?

The crime is not that hackers unveieled Hilary's dark secrets, its that Hilary was shown to a be a lying and corrupt politician.

If exposing the truth amounts to a crime, then I can only hope they commit many more.

Quote
There are GOPers who agree with many of the findings regarding the Russian threat.

A lot of americans have been brainwashed into a certain mindset about Russia. A lot of these old warhawks date from the 1940's and 50's. They're living in the past. It would take a nuclear blast to make them see sense.

Quote
But because Trump is a Republican he gets a pass.


how has he had a free pass? the mainstream media has been attacking him 24/7.

Quote
If the Dems wanted an excuse for all out war they would have capitalized off the events in Crimea or Syria.

They did capitalize off those events.

Thanks to their twisted propaganda machine most americans think Russia invaded Crimea and that their main aim in Syria is to kill babies.


A % of the crazy neocons wouldn't mind WW3, they remember Hiroshima and think nukes aren't that bad, a nuclear war is winnable. The rest just want to keep isolating, demonizing and harassing Russia in the hope she gives in and accepts to become another vassal state of Washington. That's what the globalist game is all about.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:43:38 PM by Aurata »
Imagine your Korea...

Online thunderlips

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
  • It's got electrolytes.
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2017, 11:39:35 AM »
Even Trump is now admitting Russia hacked the election.


If so he has allowed himself to be bullied into a corner (undoubtedly lied to) by the CIA. They're sucking him in pretty easily. pretty soon he'll just be another frontman for the globalists like Obama became. A puppet.

He's alone and surrounded by the oligarchy. That is his problem.


What he needs to do is order an independent, impartial investigation and surround himself with advisors who are not paid by the CIA.


If Trump fails to fulfil his promises then the people will start to realize that the "democratic process" is a sham manipulated by the oligarchy and they cannot bring about change through the ballot box.

I get my news from a variety of sources, sorry infowars isn't one of them.

Why not? Try taking in a variety of sources. Are you afraid of your own mind?

But fyi, I have never even looked at "infowars", I only know such a website exists because people like you mention it on these threads.

There are hundreds if not thousands of independent news websites trying to fill the gap left by the hoelessly biased propaganda machine that the mainstream media has become, its not all about "infowars".

Quote
at what point is it unacceptable for foreign governments to help ANY candidate?

The crime is not that hackers unveieled Hilary's dark secrets, its that Hilary was shown to a be a lying and corrupt politician.

If exposing the truth amounts to a crime, then I can only hope they commit many more.

Quote
There are GOPers who agree with many of the findings regarding the Russian threat.

A lot of americans have been brainwashed into a certain mindset about Russia. A lot of these old warhawks date from the 1940's and 50's. They're living in the past. It would take a nuclear blast to make them see sense.

Quote
But because Trump is a Republican he gets a pass.


how has he had a free pass? the mainstream media has been attacking him 24/7.

Quote
If the Dems wanted an excuse for all out war they would have capitalized off the events in Crimea or Syria.

They did capitalize off those events.

Thanks to their twisted propaganda machine most americans think Russia invaded Crimea and that their main aim in Syria is to kill babies.


A % of the crazy neocons wouldn't mind WW3, they remember Hiroshima and think nukes aren't that bad, a nuclear war is winnable. The rest just want to keep isolating, demonizing and harassing Russia in the hope she gives in and accepts to become another vassal state of Washington. That's what the globalist game is all about.

Yes... Yes I am. 

But seriously, I am glad the DNC was outed even if the result was Trump being elected.

That still doesn't answer the question of foreign influence/investment in American politics. From the Russian hack to secretly funded super-pacs, we have a serious issue with the way we elect politicians.

We have already beat the Electoral College horse to death.
Knowing is half the battle.

www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org

Online thunderlips

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
  • It's got electrolytes.
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2017, 05:40:45 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/10/russian-diplomat-found-dead-inside-greece-apartment-no-foul-play-suspected.html

These guys are dropping like flies.

Just a coincidence?

"In an interview with NPR's Steve Inskeep that is airing Friday on Morning Edition, Obama said, "I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections ... we need to take action. And we will at a time and place of our own choosing. Some of it may be explicit and publicized; some of it may not be."
Knowing is half the battle.

www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2017, 01:39:05 AM »
These guys are dropping like flies.

Just a coincidence?

not to mention those people who were investigating election fraud etc

It seems like trump may actually be bending to the demands of the establishment..who want to continue antagonizing Russia.

Awful lot of money to be made in making enemies.
Imagine your Korea...

Online thunderlips

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
  • It's got electrolytes.
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2017, 11:38:05 AM »
Again an undisclosed source, but certainly seems plausible.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russians-say-they-have-compromising-information-on-trump-2017-1

"The operative claimed that Russian intelligence sources said they had "compromised" Trump during his visits to Moscow and could "blackmail him" with evidence of his conduct, which included "perverted sexual acts arranged and monitored" by the Russian federal security service (FSB)."
Knowing is half the battle.

www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org

Offline MWeb37

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2017, 12:03:19 PM »
Again an undisclosed source...

Again, no definitive evidence.

Offline Aurata

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
  • Gender: Male
  • Je regrette rien
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2017, 04:47:36 PM »
Again, no definitive evidence.

So? That never stopped the US when it has come to foreign policy.

American actions have been based on lies for quite some time now.
Imagine your Korea...

Offline weigookin74

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4052
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2017, 07:14:03 PM »

Offline maximmm

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2017, 09:11:02 PM »
Again an undisclosed source, but certainly seems plausible.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russians-say-they-have-compromising-information-on-trump-2017-1

"The operative claimed that Russian intelligence sources said they had "compromised" Trump during his visits to Moscow and could "blackmail him" with evidence of his conduct, which included "perverted sexual acts arranged and monitored" by the Russian federal security service (FSB)."

Sanders was also not on the same page with Clinton in regards to war with Russia.

I wonder if he too would have been ousted as a Russian agent, if he had won.

The anti-Trump rhetoric is now very similar to the rhetoric in SK regarding Park Geun Hye and her infamous 7 hours when she was having an orgy while getting a plastic surgery and sacrificing children to the dead.

Trump - a Russian agent, had devious sexual acts in Moscow, was blackmailed by the Russians, and ordered the Russian government to hack Clinton.

If Trump doesn't go with the war-party line (not likely - he's already starting to shift his views), expect huge protests, even bigger than the ones in SK. 

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 01:12:38 AM by maximmm »
-  The waygook secretive moderator society  -
- We do not forgive.  We do not forget   -

My PPT stuff - http://www.waygook.org/index.php/topic,102847.0.html

Offline hippo

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2017, 11:27:10 PM »
I agree that this sort of behavior seems plausible and in character for Donald Trump.  Also, intelligence agencies in the United States and other countries would strive to blackmail Trump if the costs outweigh the benefits.  However, there should be documented evidence.  The things that made the Chelsea Manning, Wikileaks, Snowden, etc. leaks so compelling was that they were verifiable  through written documents, etc.  (That is why there has been a war against whistleblowers.

However, do you really need to speculate all that much about Donald Trump?  Isn't there enough evidence that he is unqualified, monomaniacal, unprincipled person?

I won't name names because I don't want or mean to suggest Trump is like certain past world leaders, but even in the case of the worst world leaders false information is used to discredit them.  Instead of simply saying "x world leader" systematically killed many million peoples for no logical reason, they feel the need to make up false rumors about unproven genital deformities, etc.

Offline maximmm

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2017, 01:11:43 AM »

I won't name names because I don't want or mean to suggest Trump is like certain past world leaders, but even in the case of the worst world leaders false information is used to discredit them.  Instead of simply saying "x world leader" systematically killed many million peoples for no logical reason, they feel the need to make up false rumors about unproven genital deformities, etc.

I suspect that they are simply trying to kill 2 birds with one stone.
If they can further demonize Russia and oust Trump at the same time, why not? 

Either way, it seems like the cold war with Russia, which may at some stage easily turn into WW3 is still in the cards for the foreseeable future. 
-  The waygook secretive moderator society  -
- We do not forgive.  We do not forget   -

My PPT stuff - http://www.waygook.org/index.php/topic,102847.0.html

Online thunderlips

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
  • It's got electrolytes.
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2017, 03:15:29 PM »
Knowing is half the battle.

www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org

Offline MWeb37

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2017, 03:33:59 PM »
Some even better reading:

Quote


DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
WASHINGTON, DC  20511

January 11, 2017

DNI Clapper Statement on Conversation with President-elect Trump

This evening, I had the opportunity to speak with President-elect Donald Trump to discuss recent media reports about our briefing last Friday. I expressed my profound dismay at the leaks that have been appearing in the press, and we both agreed that they are extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security.

We also discussed the private security company document, which was widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of Congress and Congressional staff even before the IC became aware of it. I emphasized that this document is not a U.S. Intelligence Community product and that I do not believe the leaks came from within the IC. The IC has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. However, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible picture of any matters that might affect national security.

President-elect Trump again affirmed his appreciation for all the men and women serving in the Intelligence Community, and I assured him that the IC stands ready to serve his Administration and the American people.   

James R. Clapper, Director of National Intelligence

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/224-press-releases-2017/1469-dni-clapper-statement-on-conversation-with-president-elect-trump

http://i.imgur.com/GJ1kUmZ.jpg is seeming more plausible the longer this goes on.

Online thunderlips

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
  • Gender: Male
  • It's got electrolytes.
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2017, 03:46:14 PM »
Some even better reading:

Quote


DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
WASHINGTON, DC  20511

January 11, 2017

DNI Clapper Statement on Conversation with President-elect Trump

This evening, I had the opportunity to speak with President-elect Donald Trump to discuss recent media reports about our briefing last Friday. I expressed my profound dismay at the leaks that have been appearing in the press, and we both agreed that they are extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security.

We also discussed the private security company document, which was widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of Congress and Congressional staff even before the IC became aware of it. I emphasized that this document is not a U.S. Intelligence Community product and that I do not believe the leaks came from within the IC. The IC has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. However, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible picture of any matters that might affect national security.

President-elect Trump again affirmed his appreciation for all the men and women serving in the Intelligence Community, and I assured him that the IC stands ready to serve his Administration and the American people.   

James R. Clapper, Director of National Intelligence

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/224-press-releases-2017/1469-dni-clapper-statement-on-conversation-with-president-elect-trump

http://i.imgur.com/GJ1kUmZ.jpg is seeming more plausible the longer this goes on.

Soooo basically don't read the document because we say you shouldn't. I doubt half of it is true, doesn't mean that those in a position to investigate shouldn't.
Knowing is half the battle.

www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org

Offline MWeb37

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2017, 03:53:06 PM »
Soooo basically don't read the document because we say you shouldn't. I doubt half of it is true, doesn't mean that those in a position to investigate shouldn't.

More like "We haven't decided if it's true or not, we still won't mention anything about veracity, but we leaked it 'cause we're intelligence (?)"

Also: "(it was) widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of Congress and Congressional staff even before the IC became aware of it."

How could something like this circle media, members of congress, and congressional staff for months before the IC even hears about it?

This is going to blow up in the faces of a lot of people/organizations, and they don't include Trump.

Offline Dave Stepz

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2017, 04:35:34 PM »
This is going to blow up in the faces of a lot of people/organizations, and they don't include Trump.

No, he doesn't need anyone to help him with that.  You just have to put a microphone in front of the dumb **** and ask any question and he'll blow himself up.  Stupid ****.  America is in for a long fun year this year.  My bets are still on him not even making it the inauguration. 

Offline MWeb37

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2017, 04:59:38 PM »
This is going to blow up in the faces of a lot of people/organizations, and they don't include Trump.

No, he doesn't need anyone to help him with that.  You just have to put a microphone in front of the dumb **** and ask any question and he'll blow himself up.  Stupid ****.  America is in for a long fun year this year.  My bets are still on him not even making it the inauguration.

WEW! November 8th must be full of fond memories for you.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 05:02:24 PM by MWeb37 »

Offline MayorHaggar

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • Gender: Male
  • Today we are all root beer
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2017, 05:27:18 PM »
Again, no definitive evidence.

So? That never stopped the US when it has come to foreign policy.

American actions have been based on lies for quite some time now.


Offline lazerbullet

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Welcome to ghost time
Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2017, 05:33:37 PM »
Lol you guys actually elected an instable serial liar who likes piss play  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: psml  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Recent Lesson Plans

Buy/Sell/Trade

Employment