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Author Topic: Russia vs USA  (Read 6381 times)

Offline thunderlips

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Russia vs USA
« on: December 22, 2016, 02:09:11 PM »
Are we heading to WW III or just a new cold war?

http://europe.newsweek.com/russian-ambassador-andrei-karlov-turkish-media-cia-syria-534801?rm=eu
It does seem plausible that this assassination was part of a larger picture, rather than just a rogue cop. Turkey is also a member of NATO, so any retaliation by Russia would be met with US and EU support of Turkey.


The timing is strange given Obama's recent remarks:
"President Obama promised to retaliate against Russia for its attempts to undermine the U.S. elections process, saying that the United States would take action "at a time and place of our own choosing."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/15/obama-threatens-retaliation-against-russia-election-hacking/95501584/

And there was this death too
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-diplomat-found-dead-moscow-before-ambassador-turkey-assassin-andrei-karlov-a7486546.html

And just to play devil's advocate here is an article which says this may strengthen Turkey-Russia ties, but also points to Western influence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/why-killing-of-russian-diplomat-is-likely-to-bring-turkey-and-russia-closer
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Offline SaintsCanada

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 02:26:00 PM »
The reason for the assassination was likely because of recent thaw between Russia and Turkey. Ironically, if there is to be any lasting peace in Syria, they will likely be the 2 most imporant (foreign) players, as the U.S. proxies (Al Qaeda) have been driven out of all of Syria's major cities and are close to total defeat.

If the assassin wasn't acting alone, it could have been many different groups behind it, from the jihadists Syria and Russia are routing in the war, to Western interests. If it was Western, it appears to have backfired as Russia and Turkey are using the "crisitunity" (as Homer Simpson would call it) to strengthen ties.

The Cold War was about ideology. The current rivalry between USA and Russia is old-fashioned imperialism. Both countries are capitalist and conservative with extremely flawed democracies pursuing access to resources and geopolitical control.

Where, exactly, Turkey will fit into all of this in the long-term is hard to tell right now. Their move to the West seems to be dead -- what poor country in their right mind would want to join the EU anymore?! How long they will even belong to NATO is an interesting question -- they share few of the democratic traditions/values of the other members, and I'm not sure how long they will share the other members' geopolitical goals. Turkey, like Syria, wants to prevent the creation of an independent Kurdistan, while the USA is working with the Kurds to fight ISIS (a fight which also puts the Kurds in de facto control of land and cities -- something Turkey hates and fears).

Turkey may decide, like Ukraine did, that closer economic and political ties to Russia are more in their own direct interests than ties with the west. Of course, when Ukraine made that decision, the West helped orchestrate a coup against the elected president and plunged the country into civil war and even resulted in the annexation of the Crimea by Russia.

To say the least, Turkey has some serious thinking to do.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 03:51:43 PM by SaintsCanada »

Offline Hau5fly

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 03:42:29 PM »
Didn't Russia just help throne Trump? No WWIII just yet, not between these two anyway.

Offline thunderlips

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 03:56:52 PM »
Trump's election win will certainly be a factor. But again I don't think it will be a direct war. More of Crimea type situation becoming more popular. Syria, Turkey, Eastern Europe there are plenty of fronts that could embroil us or our allies.

It will be interesting to see what happens during Trump's reign, let's not forget his party is largely anti-Russian and not afraid to send in the troops. He can't be too appeasing to Russia or risk serious obstacles to his presidency.
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Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2016, 04:13:59 PM »
It does seem plausible that this assassination was part of a larger picture, rather than just a rogue cop.

Quite possibly yeah the work of cia-nato agents.

The goal of american leaders and their western lackeys has been to isolate and provoke Russia: prevent it forming alliances, start fires along its borders.

The current administration is intent on making russia an enemy, so they will do anything.
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Offline maximmm

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2016, 04:34:52 PM »
I still think Trump is more likely to start a war with China.

What we are seeing with US/Russia right now are just the final moves of the Obama admin - but make no mistake, it is on its way out and we are likely to witness a major change in the US foreign policy.  Like I just said though, it's a change that's more likely to shake things up in Asia rather than Europe.  I despised both US candidates and still do - just because one is more likely to start a war in one region than another does not make either one less of a war monger.  Anyways, we'll see what happens. 
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Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 04:50:40 PM »
I don't think the Trumpsters have realized yet that Russia is quite close to China, Iran, and North Korea.


Anyway Putin only got Trump elected so he can destroy NATO. Say goodbye to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, and a few others. All because a few thousand people in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania wanted to feel better about being white.

Offline thunderlips

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2016, 04:50:59 PM »
I still think Trump is more likely to start a war with China.

What we are seeing with US/Russia right now are just the final moves of the Obama admin - but make no mistake, it is on its way out and we are likely to witness a major change in the US foreign policy.  Like I just said though, it's a change that's more likely to shake things up in Asia rather than Europe.  I despised both US candidates and still do - just because one is more likely to start a war in one region than another does not make either one less of a war monger.  Anyways, we'll see what happens.

Yeah absolutely, I am not looking to carry on the Trump vs Clinton thread. I do think the powers that be are looking for a new front.

I agree we are on a collision course with China and possibly with Russia. Trump's cabinet is looking pretty strong for a confrontation, whether it be economic or military.

Pretty strong argument that the US is quickly losing its status as a superpower on the world stage. And this is due in part to both sides of the political spectrum.  A look at the main parties deciding the fate of Syria and USA is nowhere to be found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/20/world/middleeast/russia-iran-and-turkey-meet-for-syria-talks-excluding-us.html?_r=0

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Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2016, 05:13:28 PM »
Anyway Putin only got Trump elected so he can destroy NATO.

..hardly a tragedy considering the agressive imperialistic force that Nato has become.

Nato threatens world peace, it needs to be dismantled. It should've been dismantled at the end of the cold war.
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Offline MayorHaggar

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2016, 05:36:37 PM »
No, NATO threatens Putin, and it protects millions of people living in free democracies from Putin's brutal authoritarianism.

Offline thunderlips

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2016, 05:51:44 PM »
Let's get ready to rumble!

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Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2016, 05:59:50 PM »
No, NATO threatens Putin, and it protects millions of people living in free democracies from Putin's brutal authoritarianism.

Lol you're even more deluded than lifeimprovement.

Who's going to protect them from you?
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Offline George Washington

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2016, 08:29:55 PM »
America's the best country in the world. Mess with us, you're toast.
Articles of Confederation, the supreme law of the land.

Offline hippo

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2016, 09:41:29 PM »
Why is it that everyone is talking about how Russia enabled or orchestrated a Trump victory still without concrete evidence?  It's not hard to think of Russian motivations to do so or think them capable and willing to do so, but why should you believe any of this without evidence.  Otherwise, you can just blame way too much on Russia.  So far there have been just reports from anonymous officials from agencies.  Weren't the agencies more or less in agreement on the WMDs in Iraq?  When will they release concrete evidence? 

By the way, for the sake of argument, let's say Russia gave the election to Trump.  Why isn't Obama and others being held partly responsible for this?

Also, given the devastating invasions of Russia in the World Wars and the Cold War, how do you expect Russia to react to expansion of NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union?  Regardless of how one feels about Vladimir Putin, one has to understand the positions of other powers. 

Trump is an awful, dangerous, wreckless person without any clearly discernible core political principles.  Is engaging in evidence-proof allegations and Neo-Mccarthyism the right way to fight against him.  Maybe people would care more if they were presented with evidence other than anonymous government officials.  It just seems like the Democrats just do not want to admit the reasons they lost (e.g. running a weak candidate with little ability to inspire anyone).

Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2016, 01:05:09 AM »
America's the best country in the world. Mess with us, you're toast.




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Offline Aurata

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2016, 01:22:53 AM »
Why is it that everyone is talking about how Russia enabled or orchestrated a Trump victory still without concrete evidence?

-because they are irrational brainwashed simpletons?


Quote
By the way, for the sake of argument, let's say Russia gave the election to Trump. 

How is that possible?

I still don't even know how this incredible hacking event is supposed to have occurred .. and nobody else (including Obama and the cia) knows either.

looks like a lot of people prefer to believe fairy tales rather than use their brain.

 
 
Quote
how do you expect Russia to react to expansion of NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union?
 

Russia requested several times to join nato. They were refused.

Putin has stated over and over that he wants to work with America and be an ally. Washington simply slandered and provoked him in response.

Crunch time will come in 2017 when Russia will be forced to react militarily to nato's missile launchers all around their borders. If they ignore it, they will effectively have no national defence.

What most people don't get is that Washington's foreign policy is dictated by the military-industrial complex. And they need to make enemies and invade other countries in order to drum up business.

Americans are hapless dupes in the hands of a few powerful elites.

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Offline maximmm

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2016, 01:34:38 AM »


Quote
By the way, for the sake of argument, let's say Russia gave the election to Trump. 

How is that possible?

I still don't even know how this incredible hacking event is supposed to have occurred .. and nobody else (including Obama and the cia) knows either.

looks like a lot of people prefer to believe fairy tales rather than use their brain.


How Podesta's email server was hacked is well documented.  I'd say that his emails were just as damaging as other emails.

I imagine the other servers were hacked in a similar fashion.  Perhaps they replied to the 'the Saudi king died and left you an inheritance' scam emails along with their personal info (which would make sense, given Clinton's connection to the Saudis ;). 

Yep, this is what happens when you have morons running the country. 
I'm thinking Trump's email server can just as easily be 'hacked'.
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Offline MintIceCream

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2016, 11:55:56 AM »
I don't think the Trumpsters have realized yet that Russia is quite close to China, Iran, and North Korea.


Anyway Putin only got Trump elected so he can destroy NATO. Say goodbye to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, and a few others. All because a few thousand people in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania wanted to feel better about being white.

Please don't tell me you're one of those people that think Donald Trump won "cuz white supremacy"? Reading too much Buzzfeed isn't good for anyone.

I would also like to see how Russia orchestrated Trump's win.

Offline Epistemology

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Re: Russia vs USA
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2016, 02:04:14 PM »
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-an-evidence-free-cia-finding-alleging-russian-interference-in-the-us-election-was-turned-into-an-indisputable-truth/5563458


https://radio.foxnews.com/2016/12/20/mcgovern-a-disgruntled-bernie-supporter-probably-leaked-dnc-emails/#.WFpHYKCLudY.twitter

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
Not a source you want to link to.
Quote
Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Global Research mostly consists of polemicists. The prevalent strand is that a New World Order is being implemented by global elites (primarily governments and corporations).[16][17] Many of the articles accept conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and propaganda in order to further this narrative.
Specific conspiracy theories include:
Big Pharma:
Big Pharma forced Australia to silence pro-homeopathy and anti-vaccination proponents;[18]
Big Pharma forced the FDA to destroy homeopathy;[15]
Big Pharma is covering up the "horrors" of "Western Medicine".[19]
Anti-vaccination movement:
Vaccines in general are a depopulation tactic.[20]
Vaccines cause autism.[21][22]
Vaccines in Kenya have been laced with sterility compounds by the WHO and UNICEF.[23][24][25] Bullshit, by the way.[26]
Vaccines are toxic.[27]
Vaccines don't work.[28][29]
Vaccines are highly profitable.[29]
All of the above is being covered up by Monsanto and "the West".[18][30]
9/11 conspiracy theories:
The US did 9/11 to start a war.[15][14]
Most Americans do know the US did it, but are unwilling to push for change.[31]
Most Americans don't know the US did it, because their government hides the truth.[32]
The media is suppressing the TRUTH.[33]
The Middle East:
The USA used nukes in both Iraq and Afghanistan.[34]
The USA and the CIA created ISIS[35][36] and are using it as a "psyop" theater.[37]
David Kelly was murdered to shush him.[38]
GMFs:
GMFs are poison.[39][40][41]
GMFs are part of a depopulation conspiracy theory through sterilization of humankind[42]
Monsanto:
Monsanto is literally the most evil corporation.[43][44]
Even if GMFs were fine, then Monsanto's existence would make them bad.[45]
Zionism and the International Jewish Conspiracy:
Zionists are plotting to rule everything from Cairo to Baghdad[46]
Zionists have infiltrated and now control America.[47]
The Holocaust is a profitable industry, which Zionists collaborated in causing, and shich that Zionists use to push for Palestinian ethnic cleansing.[48]
Zionists use American Jews to push their agenda[49]
Chemtrails:
Chemtrails are toxic.[50]
Chemtrails are used for nefarious geo-engineering.[51]
The USA:
The US Congress is entirely corporation-controlled and pro-war: "Members of Congress are puppets. Their vote is controlled by Washington's lobby groups. For the defence contractors, Wall Street and the Texas oil giants, 'war is good for business'."[52]
The Federal Reserve is absolutely corporation-controlled[53]
Genocide denialism:
Bosnian genocide denialism: a hoax.[54]
Rwandan genocide denialism: "questioning" views are totally true and are being suppressed.[55]
HAARP is a climate-controlling weapon[56][57]
Global warming is a conspiracy theory[58][59] (though some of their articles argue for the existence of global warming[60])
Fluoridation is poison.[61][62][63]
Nuke fearmongering: Fukushima is killing everything![64]
The Bilderberg Group runs the world.[65]
Charlie Hebdo was a false flag.[66]

Truly remarkable viewpoints

North Korea, a Land of Human Achievement, Love and Joy: North Korea Celebrates 60th Anniversary of Victory[1](saved archive)
US Training Nazis, Western Media Providing Cover[67]
The Complete History of Monsanto, "The World’s Most Evil Corporation"[43]
Capitalism and "The Universal Religion"[68]
"US Struggles to Keep Asia in Dark Age. US-Funded 'Newspapers' and 'Activists'".[69]
"Weaponizing the Term 'Conspiracy Theory': Disinformation Agents and the CIA": The CIA tells lies, mainstream media is disinformation, and Andrew Wakefield's research is both valid and replicated. Right.[70]
Fidel Castro Ruz. His Legacy Will Live Forever[71]

Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites GlobalResearch, they are almost certainly wrong.
The more you know.

 

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